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Topic: Dark Enlightenment - page 8. (Read 69242 times)

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 14, 2017, 04:36:21 AM
I kept intending to mention, but keep forgetting to inject it into one of my replies to CoinCube, that I so many times throughout my life dreamt of finding a female hacker or mathematician so we could collaborate together while also having a relationship bearing a family. I thought that would be so neat and like-minded. But you know every time I did find a lady who claimed to be interested in math or computer science, it turned out that they secretly didn't really find it to be their #1 priority in life and they really didn't want to just spend all their time talking tech shop with me.

I even went so far as to find very beautiful ladies from yearbooks who had graduated in mathematics and attempt to find them, but that did not prosper.

When I started to learn these damned facts, then it became clear to me that my geek fantasies were all entirely misaligned with reality. It was sobering, but necessary for my maturity and correct adjustment socially. I have since emphasized even more the development of my masculinity.

My sister had (she's dead) a similar IQ to myself, but she and I used to fight over whether we would watch Star Trek or soap operas. I was elder, bigger, and a male, so I always won. By at age ~13, I suddenly on my own realized I was wrong for bullying my way with my sister and suddenly extended her more fairness. That was also the age which I discovered programming. I remember when I taught my sister the essence of high school geometry in about an hour. She got it. She said I had a genius way of teaching it. I think I was smarter then. Maybe it is the several years of TB (dengue, HPV, blinded eye, broken hand, broken nose, broken foot, torn rotator suff, dysentry every week for years, years of malnutrition, jaundice liver at birth, head bashed in with a hammer, numerous head concussions, etc) has worn me down (perhaps I will get it back soon).


Also hot smart chicks (I remember at least one southern belle at LSU and another Russian one) liked to study with me (and I mean even studying while sitting on my bed), but then they'd friend zone me. Fuck that! I was naive (and socially inept) enough to be used that way at that age, but no more.

Then when I'd put on my jock and badboy (asshole) party animal "hat", I would get hot chicks begging me to fuck them. I literally had this girl on my bed in college who was on top of me, hugging me, and sticking her D tits in my face and I declined the sex because I didn't want her showing up at my place all the damn time demanding I spend time with her[1]. I still remember when my super jock (Carter Austin was a starting quarterback at his high school) roommate was shocked that I told her on the phone to stop stalking me and he said, "you are the man, you just told the hottest chick that has ever come into our place to stop nagging you". Btw, that was a really sweet and hot lady, and later in life I kicked myself for all the quality ladies I let slip through my fingers over the years and then I ended up with what I did, OMG!  Cry  Embarrassed

So yeah the damned facts are really true.


[1] because at the time my priorities were partying like a madman, athletics, and my hacking time in my garage— studying relegated to the night before exams. When I say hacking, basically I was hacking spontaneously at any time and place. For example, I remember Carter had just joined our house as a roommate and so we needed a bunk bed. A rain storm washed some 2x4 lumber floating in the road, so I grabbed and without any drawings or planning, constructed a massive, very well designed queen size bunk bed in a matter of hours (without power tools). It was so solid that he could be having gentle sex on the top bunk and I wouldn't sense any movement. Those past roommates still note my hacking escapades. Mario Spina (now Maria Spina, with a gender change) told me recently on LinkedIn that he still credits my ad lib spur of the moment tutoring sessions with his becoming an adjunct professor at George Washington University and a head at SAIC. He said he thought I'd end up curing cancer. Sometimes I look back on my life and I don't know how I could have fucked it up any worse than I did.

I can still remember when I couldn't even find my Differential Equations textbook because it was buried under strewn chaos on my floor and I had to learn 4 chapters before the exam in a few hours and I was drunk (no sleep that night). I had too many competing opportunities. Couldn't pigeonhole myself only on being a nerd. I wasn't genius or polymath enough to do all of the opportunities at the highest level though. That is very rare talent who can across the spectrum from jock to social to engineering and theoretical disciplines and even art. I dabbled in all, e.g. played the violin at a rudimentary level but starting skipping summer class sessions to go roam around because seemed there were much more interesting trouble to get into than learning to jam in the symphony. Maybe if it had been impromptu jazz training sessions on Bourbon street I would have been more captivated by it. I think for me there needed to always be some risk and creativity involved or I would lose interest.

Hey I am not complaining.  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 14, 2017, 04:05:39 AM
I want to respond to the socialist theme as embodied by some of @Winter's recent comments:

Your mistake is presuming the State has any role whatsoever because you fear interleaved (not mass) failure. But integrated failure is the way nature anneals gradually towards optimum fitness (I am very surprised you don't accept this given you have cited evolutionary biology). The man is the one who invests in his children and thus the only one who should decide. The female also invests, but realize that she depends on the man and she knows this unless she has the State fucking up nature and creating Frankenstein divergence into scorched earth mass failure.

Socialists hate nature. They don't want to admit that power and opportunities are diversified and not distributed equally. They are appalled for example that some female might have to accept a marriage out of economic considerations (as if any woman ever doesn't regardless of her financial standing!  Roll Eyes).



You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.

I will be the first to admit I needed a week or two to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint:

The Rise of Knowledge
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 14, 2017, 02:31:47 AM
miscreanity I took an airplane flight today. In the air I wrote a long and detailed post.

Yet here I am on the ground and I find not only is my planned post completely redundant but that every point I wished to convey and more was communicated in two posts that together are not only superior but half the length of what I had written.

So I just deleted the planned post I spent an hour and a half writing. I have never done that before. I would only delete a post of mine if it was utterly superseded. Kudos!

I agree with everything you just wrote. The only area where we might someday differ is that I have yet to take a position on the New Testament. In the long run I do not know if that potential difference matters.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 14, 2017, 01:18:13 AM
God religion is not voluntary. It is a mind control and social coercion...

If it isn't voluntary, how is it that you can choose your own or even to dismiss it? State religion is not voluntary.

Around 10% of Amish leave their communities to explore the world at large, yet most return.

Meanwhile, sailing families leave behind state-dominated lives for a much more family/community-oriented existence. Their children are generally well adapted and knowledgeable.

In my view, agreeing with you, it is the state that destroys. So what is it about these faith-based communities that is different? What similarities do they have with nomadic sailing travelers? Most of all, how do they maintain structure without becoming a destructive state?

Women can't be emancipated (and thus you require the mind control and coercion of religion)...

Isn't God unnecessary? If human men can at some point in their lives learn how to handle themselves, is it not expected that human women can also learn to understand their behavior needs to be restrained, if not on their own then by a man? Then is it possible the suggested mind control and coercion are the cause of trouble instead of the tools that control? Hasn't eradication of religion been attempted?

One point to ponder: if a man cannot or has not submitted to an authority, how is he to understand his wife's situation and treat her properly?
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 14, 2017, 12:07:22 AM
What is actually the worst possible outcome is to have one strategy, religion, or culture adopted by everyone.

This is the point I disagree with. I think we both agree that the optimal way to increase degrees of freedom for individuals is to allow and enable instead of controlling. A universal strategy is an essential foundation that enables freedom. Without that, we have the situation that is developing now with varying viewpoints where some sets are progressing toward destruction and others are being dragged into declining entropy. Competition can take place when there is room for growth but on a globally saturated scale, nobody wins.

Reproductive strategy is likely to become essentially irrelevant for humanity, possibly within our lifetimes. It seems inevitable that our existing biological bodies will give way to different forms that will carry us off-planet. At that point, allowing and enabling all individuals to thrive in a constructive environment becomes paramount. What then is the protocol that keeps that freedom from becoming destructive? Of course, my thinking is that the protocol is outlined in the Christian bible.

The following two (relatively) short videos may be of interest regarding previous discussion:
The moral argument for God
Why Does God Allow Evil?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 13, 2017, 11:02:14 PM
Yes that is because the blogger here is engaged in a deductive fallacy. There certainly are are large numbers of women and men engaged in the described defect/defect equilibrium. The blogger errors is in his assumption that his analogy is universally true when it is not. There are a large number of educated free men and women who do a reasonable job of selecting their mates and voluntary choose cooperate/cooperate options.

Famous words spoken before the collapse of Western society. Let's revisit this in another decade or two when marriage has collapsed and subcultures are fighting against the State which is trying to eradicate them per a variation on the Fall of Western Roman Empire, Hitler or Yugoslavia model as everything disintegrates and collapses back to a higher degrees-of-freedom, i.e. Stage #5 in your model as I edited it.

The salient point is that he never wrote that no one was getting married. Heck his own two sons are married. He is writing about the devolution of the society and the end game. Your perspective is that of a quarterback who throws the football to where the wide receiver is now, not where he is going to be when the ball arrives at the destination.

The fact that some individuals fail in the face of selective pressure does not mean we must coercively impose a forced solution on all men and women.

That his prescription is a natural result of the disease, is irrelevant to why you seem unable to separate concerns and acknowledge his truths.

Individuals who are engaged in defect/defect equilibrium are sadly maladapted to the current environment and will be gradually replaced over time by those who do not make unhealthy choices.

The current Marxism (Stage #4) environment is maladapted to the Knowledge Age and will be replaced also with Stage #6.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 13, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
Lets lay out all of the facts we have covered so far:

Facts:
1) Overall marriage rates have declined over the last 100 years.
2) Overall divorce rates have climbed over the last 100 years.
3) Women in the west have become emancipated for at most 100 years (right to vote in US granted in 1920).

Agreed.

4) Educated women are somewhat resistant to this decline in marriage. Their marriage rates have declined less and they are less likely to get divorced.

I refuted this line of argument. There is insufficient data presented thus far to state this conclusion. This is in an ongoing phenomenon and my (well founded hypothesis is my) X Gen has tried to stall the decline, but I documented that the Millennials are going to obliterate marriage, i.e. we are ostensibly headed towards a cliff as the second wave of feminism+SJW+Marxism hits.

It is tiring to have to repeat myself because you debate disingenuously and non-objectively sometimes.

5) Educated women currently have fewer children then those with less education.
6) Participation in conservative religious groups may buffer against this decline in fertility.

Religion is another way to control the defect/defect that JAD explained is the problem. Because if you otherwise attempt to emancipate women, you get other forces in control of the women, which is a dysfunctional infanticide societal brothel.

Can these changes be tied to the emancipation of women? Yes but not for the reasons listed by the [JAD] blogger above. Modern men and women are simply not adapted to select a partner from an unscreened population.  

Quote from: Bruce Charlton
The system of parental sexual choice seems to be unique to humans - which makes it a matter of exceptional biological interest: we may be the only species that has not evolved to choose our own mates.

Because our larger brains have to grow outside the womb (for one reason is that women would die if the head was any larger coming through the birth canal), and thus parents have to invest 18+ years in the development of the offspring. This is why the parents must own the children, otherwise the parents lose incentive to make offspring relative to their other opportunity costs.

Quote from: Bruce Charlton
Modern single people therefore are much too happy about their living in a state of unattached childlessness, than is good for their reproductive success. And this (biologically) foolish happiness is at least partly a consequence of evolutionary history: people are behaving as if mating and marriage will be sorted-out by parents - but it isn't.

It is not just that they are more happy childless, but also that the State no longer permits them to own their children, so they have much higher opportunity costs than if the State would GTFO.

So what we are dealing with here is a situation where both genders including men are poorly adapted when it comes to choosing our mates in life. We have evolved with the built in expectation that our parents will arrange these things for us but this no longer happens.

Humanity is currently under extreme selective pressure. We are a population maladapted to our current environment. One of the many stressors we face is an entirely new fitness landscape when it comes to reproduction.

The time when parents made our choices for us is gone. The new status quo has only existed for at most a hundred years (realistically much less). There simply has not been time for the population to adapt to what amounts to a huge environmental shift. We can thus expect to see many individual bad outcomes as individual fail in the face of selective pressure.

The clock, however, cannot be turned back. Knowledge has progressed and society is not returning to a conformation with less degrees-of-freedom. A society that enslaves and refuses to educate half of its population is simply uncompetitive over the long run. Women are emancipated and and not returning to slavery voluntary. Given the option between freedom and slavery human nature cries out for freedom. The genie is out of the bottle.

In the long run this will be a good thing as eventually a population will arise where both men and women are free and place proper focus time and effort in choosing a suitable mate and prioritizing child rearing.

Every time those glossy-eye dreamers say, "it is different this time", they always are incorrect.

Nature does not change that fast. Sorry. Cultural can adapt fast, but genetically driven instinct can't adapt that fast, because it is hormonally and brain structure driven.

Sorry but that Stage #4 maladapted SJW, feminist, corporate-fascist, industrial age, Marxist environment will fail and (Freeman Dyson's) cultural evolution will figure out how to keep humans aligned with our genetic evolution.

See Stage #5 of your chart as I have edited it, for what is coming to those who believe your ideological nonsense.

Knowledge progressing has nothing to do with it. If males and parents have greater knowledge, they also have the knowledge to protect their children from influences to which the children are maladapted.

You are going to be shocked by the Stage #5 and #6. It isn't going to look anything like the USA does now where everyone goes to same school and the same strip mall.

The cults and militias will proliferate. There will even be hedonistic cults such as virtual reality gamers, etc..
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 13, 2017, 09:56:54 PM
The difference is that I am suggesting voluntary methods of improving health and fitness. You in contrast continue to cite and promote a blogger who argues for coercively restricting the freedom of others.

I from the very beginning of this discussion reiterated more than once that free will was an essential component of my stance. I have repeatedly stated that I don't agree with all of JAD's prescriptions, but that I do respect his knowledge of damned facts and his articulation of the blunt reality. You don't wish to give him any recognition, because you don't like his prescriptions. But I am able to not conflate the two separate concerns.

God religion is not voluntary. It is a mind control and social coercion, so please stop lying to yourself and being a hypocrite. Women can't be emancipated (and thus you require the mind control and coercion of religion), and you want to lie to yourself about that so you can feel good about having some noble ideology. It is that holier than thou BS which is pisses me off about SJWs because then they try to have a power over me with it. That is (cultural, political, and eventually hot) war.

Btw, another reason I don't feel bad about citing JAD is because the prescriptions he advocates is what the SJWs get for erecting the power structures for dictatorship and creating a cultural and political war on white males from the top-down. I understand you don't like looking in the mirror. This is why the leftists are going bug-nuts now. I told you last year that the breakup of the USA is coming. Now the SJWs will reap what they sowed.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 13, 2017, 09:03:22 PM
However, I view your position on this particular issue as myopic. In the long run a magnificent world of abundant diversity involves liberating our women and allowing them to fully participate in that diversity with us.

It is your position that women should not be educated and especially Mr. Donaldson's argument that women be forced into subservience that is the real monolithic solution one that turns the role of all women in society into a xerox copy without freedom. True diversity results from emancipation.

My first and foremost point, is that what I and any other parent does for their kids is none of your business. By sticking your (or by proxy the State's) nose in other people's business, you SJWs violate the diversity of investment of parenting. The parents are the one's who are investing 18+ years of their life, not you. By dictating to them what they can and can not do, you are spreading a uniform mayonnaise and destroying diversity. Just contemplate the personal sacrifice to invest 18+ years of your life in offspring. If we take away the control, then the parent is incentivized to invest in himself instead, where he does have more control. You in essence want to make us unpaid servants and babysitters of the State, not parents.

Secondly, you can't state conclusively that not highly educating most of the females would result in an inferior level of diversity. This assumption potentially fails for numerous reasons and thus to mimic what Eric Raymond recently wrote, it is not even on the  “See Spot Run!” level of analysis.

Diversity does not originate from the volume of those educated or the volume of education, rather from the diversity of the experience of the child and cofactors. By not having mothers dull the minds of their sons with mayonnaise they were indoctrinated with in SJW education, we are likely to increase diversity. If we presume that the primary role of females is to maximize the production of offspring in their very limited fertility window, then wasting their time on education into her 20s is highly destructive. Since females are inherently prone to drama due to the drama of childbirth (and damn if you can find an exception to this, because the more I look, the more I see it every where I see a female involved but surely there are exceptions such as Barbara Liskov?), then they are much more likely to incorporate themes in education which are counter to intellectual production.

However, I arrived at a quite simple solution to this issue if ever I do have more children. I will simply provide the kids all the educational resources (including the arts such as music and painting) for home study and allow them to purse their autodidact education without any coercion. I pretty much taught myself everything I know (of course as written down by others). I have observed that Ainan was teaching himself college level chemistry at age 6 (btw, I ranked #3 out of 300 students in first year college Chemistry at LSU but as usual I hated boringly slow lectures and did all my learning by myself). Thus if there are any females who decide to not pursue their natural instincts of playing with baby dolls and other female type of activities, then if they themselves demonstrate exceptional ability that warrants subjugating the value of their ovaries to the value of their very valuable mind, then nature will have spoken. In short, disallow any infection of the brains of my offspring from mass media, TV, and so infected peers, and then let nature decide. I know that even without an education system, I was already hacking as an infant. There is a photo of me in diapers and I was already constructing things with a hammer. My mother said I was the only kid she knew who deconstructed all my toys to see how they worked, as a form of play (truth is I would play with them first until I got bored because I also enjoy dexterity, hand-eye coordination, and other physical challenges). The games I enjoyed the least were those which did not leverage creativity and instead just showed off the ability to memorize a pattern.

For females who do not demonstrate that their minds are more valuable than their ovaries (and/or who demonstrate their preference for unnecessary drama is too high), I would try to marry them at the earliest possible age after they reached adulthood. And I would encourage their female instincts and teach them how to be good wives and mothers. For boys who showed less enthusiast interest in intellectual pursuits, I would encourage them to work and marry at an earlier age. For sons that excelled in the intellectual and/or athletics, I would encourage them to pursue that first before marriage.

I expect if we stop socially pressuring women to not be women in their formative years, then women will en masse naturally revert to being females. And to have them not enter one huge defect/defect dysfunctional societal brothel, we also need to remove their access to for example Internet addictions such as social networking and mobile phones to prevent them from expending their entire day implicitly by proxy trying to figure out how to fuck Jeremy Meeks. Btw, this is why women typically need to be married at a young age, because that is what they really need and attempting to replace that need with SJW education and other drama, is destructive and dysfunctional. Additionally young men don't benefit from being exposed to porn (videos of real love making and fornication for producing offspring might be suitable though, as I would presume that kids were aware of this in our ancestral environment to which we are adapted). In my opinion, we expose our children to too wide a swath of social interaction at too early an age. This was not the case in our ancestral environment to which we are adapted.

Please contrast this with for example what may be the case in some Islamic parenting wherein ostensibly the females who are geniuses may be preordained to a life which doesn't fit their natural abilities.

True diversity results from emancipation.

“See Spot Run!”.

How is the politically correct social pressure (get a feminist SJW college education, etc) to prevent females from following their instincts in their formative years emancipation? Females are very easily destroyed by influences that activate their hindbrain and need for drama. I keep mentioning to you Eve and the forbidden fruit, but you can't seem to understand the point that women are not really capable of thinking for themselves. You can't emancipate females. All you can do is subject them to another set of perverse pressures. Socialists (and statists) always think that they can change nature with legislation. Brouhaha.  Cheesy Roll Eyes

In reality though, women are really ready for husband around age 15 - 18 in most cases. Any way, I would be interested to see what is actually the case naturally, if one sits back and observes the reality instead of trying to force nature to not exist (as SJW attempt to do and will fail miserable with self-culling as the result in Stage #5 of your chart). Up until fairly recently as feminists have taken over, it was legal ("Age of Consent") in many States of the USA to get married I think as early as age 14.

Btw, I agree with JAD that the vast majority of women would be most happy in their traditional roles and without all this societal pressure for them to abandon the lifestyle for which they were adapted.

On Friday, the Spanish government announced it was to raise the marriage age from 14 to 16 to bring it into line with the rest of Europe.

I think your incorrect assumption about my stance has been at least partially due to my inability to think out everything I would want to say about this issue, as well as you jumping the conclusion that I mimicked all of JAD's prescriptions even though I have stated several times that I don't. Coincidentally, this morning I was thinking about what my actual plans would be on this issue. And part of my research was spending an entire day watching videos on YouTube over the weekend, such as videos on gifted children of both genders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO5FKjWfb-Y  (Btw, I can add numbers in my head MUCH faster than those two in the final although I've seen videos of geniuses who are faster than me, but I don't have Ainan's extreme memory.)

As well videos about how very wealthy parents spoil their children:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHGv3dsSPM0

As you know, I've been quite limited since Jan. 21 when I started taking 4-drug antibiotics to attempt to cure what is likely disseminated Tuberculosis. The antibiotics are extremely liver toxic to the point that a significant percentage of patients have to stop taking, and most patients experience some persistent nausea especially in the first 2 weeks. Also I had liver disease before initiating treatment, ostensibly due to the long duration (6 years?) of carrying the disseminated TB disease. It turns out that the abdominal pain I've been having over the years is apparently liver pain. And this pain did at times get worse during the initial intensive phase of this treatment. Notably I have discovered that 20,000 IU per day of vitamin D3 and eating everything 4 hours or so, eliminates the liver pain. So this appears to be a new approach to managing and tolerating the toxic medicines, further supported by the recent liver SPGT liver enzymes test which came back in the normal range down from double the upper threshold. I also confirmed this by stopping the vitamin d3 and not eating from breakfast to dinner and significant liver pain and nausea returned. Then I ate beef soup and took the vitamin d3 and the pain abated and hasn't come back significantly while maintaining the combined regimen.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
February 13, 2017, 01:45:29 PM
The wonderful education system in Singapore will not allow a high IQ father remove his child prodigy genius from useless primary school and move him to the university where he won't be bored to tears:

https://youtu.be/Z32NnlIpsz8?t=1853

Btw, interesting what has transpired since:

The family live in an apartment in Kuala Lumpur, where Ainan is in Taylor University’s American Degree Transfer Programme, which allows for flexible, broad-based learning. He is majoring in the sciences but doing everything from computer programming to theatre. Last year, he composed the score for a 15-minute short film for a film festival.

Mr Cawley has learnt a lesson from his son not to “regiment” him. The boy began composing at six but when his parents arranged music lessons for him, he “wouldn’t touch the piano for the next six years”, says dad.

Ainan says: “I do not enjoy rigorous and repetitive training, which was the way I was being taught then.”

Here’s a video of him as a teenager being bored to tears (until he starts goofing off with his brothers):

Watch the video in the quoted blog above, they had to leave Singapore to find him a proper education environment.

He is asking for an American university to extend him an offer. If anyone can help, sounds like a waste that he isn't being challenged enough on the thinking aspect.

Met Paul Cheng, this Singaporean American on a flight. All he does now is help young foreign  kids find higher education opportunities in the States. Let me find his card...
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 13, 2017, 07:38:43 AM
The wonderful education system in Singapore will not allow a high IQ father remove his child prodigy genius from useless primary school and move him to the university where he won't be bored to tears:

https://youtu.be/Z32NnlIpsz8?t=1853

Btw, interesting what has transpired since:

The family live in an apartment in Kuala Lumpur, where Ainan is in Taylor University’s American Degree Transfer Programme, which allows for flexible, broad-based learning. He is majoring in the sciences but doing everything from computer programming to theatre. Last year, he composed the score for a 15-minute short film for a film festival.

Mr Cawley has learnt a lesson from his son not to “regiment” him. The boy began composing at six but when his parents arranged music lessons for him, he “wouldn’t touch the piano for the next six years”, says dad.

Ainan says: “I do not enjoy rigorous and repetitive training, which was the way I was being taught then.”

Here’s a video of him as a teenager being bored to tears (until he starts goofing off with his brothers):

Watch the video in the quoted blog above, they had to leave Singapore to find him a proper educational environment.

He is asking for an American university to extend him an offer. If anyone can help, sounds like a waste that he isn't being challenged enough on the thinking aspect.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 12, 2017, 10:13:27 PM
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 12, 2017, 09:18:52 PM

I advocate a magnificent world of abundant diversity; whereas, you implicitly support a monolithic mayonnaise that smothers everything and turns us all into xerox copy, Facebook, McFat, SJWs lies regurgitating mind controlled zombies. I don't want to live in your dying top-down driven enslavement high economies-of-scale, corporate-fascist, power vacuum, industrial age strip mall hell heaven.

You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.

I will be the first to admit I needed a week or two to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint:

The Rise of Knowledge

That essay of yours is quite good and I do recommend people read it regardless of our current differences.

However, I view your position on this particular issue as myopic. In the long run a magnificent world of abundant diversity involves liberating our women and allowing them to fully participate in that diversity with us.

It is your position that women should not be educated and especially Mr. Donaldson's argument that women be forced into subservience that is the real monolithic solution one that turns the role of all women in society into a xerox copy without freedom. True diversity results from emancipation.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 12, 2017, 09:08:59 PM
When you use the God religion to attempt to repress your women and mind control them into not defecting from the optimum life strategy, that is not conceptually different from an enslavement perspective than any other cultural strategy that accomplishes the same goal.

The pot calling the kettle black. Hypocrite.


The difference is that I am suggesting voluntary methods of improving health and fitness. You in contrast continue to cite and promote a blogger who argues for coercively restricting the freedom of others.

Here is an example from one conservative faith. There are others:

http://www.jewishmag.com/63mag/shidduch/shidduch.htm
Meeting Your Mate by Molly Lugmo
Quote
What is the difference between a shidduch and a date?

Well for one, tachlis, the end goal, makes the difference. In a date the end goal is a good time with some one nice, whereas in a shidduch, the end goal is a quality marital partner. With these two diverse goals we can begin to understand the high marital success rate for a shidduch and the low rate for a date.

In a date, generally a place of entertainment is chosen and an event is enjoyed together. Interspersed between the entertainment is some conversation, perhaps about the source of entertainment, perhaps about other more personal topics. In a shidduch, a neutral place (which is not a place of entertainment) is selected, and the conversation is the main focus. Each side asks questions about the other, and shares their feelings and opinions openly so that the other side can understand their character, their desires and their direction.

A date often is a romantic interlude that comes to its conclusion with some hugging and kissing, perhaps more, perhaps less. A shidduch is a hands-free event, for the schmuching (hugging and kissing) would cloud the purpose of the event, the proper evaluation of the other. Emotional involvement is only granted after the other person has been properly seen as worthy of a life time mate.

A date starts with a chance meeting, followed up by a proposal to go out together. A shidduch starts with a proposal by a third party (the shadchan male or shadchanit female) and develops after a careful investigation of the character and integrity by both parties of the other sides. Both sides refer back to the shadchan with their findings. If they are both interested, then a meeting is made. If, however, one of the parties feels that this is not for them, then the relationship does not even begin and no hard feelings are made.

Even if the couple sees each other several times and then one side decides that the other is not for them, then it is the job of the shadchan to tell the other side. The shadchan generally says that the other side feels that this person is a very nice person but not the one for them. No hard feelings or depression is caused since each side knows that the purpose of the meetings were to assess the possibility of a marriage. With dating, hard feelings can be generated if there has been some emotional involvement and then one side wants to terminate the relationship. This generally leaves the other side feeling rejected and depressed.

Perhaps one of the most important points which contribute to the success of the "brokered" marriage is the fact that the couple keeps their hands off the other. This is not always easy, but the dividends, are overwhelming. Sex before marriage, including hugging and kissing, can cause emotional attachments before the partner has been certified as worthy and appropriate by the mind.

Sex comes together with the marriage. In the confines of marriage it is a positive thing, but before marriage it can destroy a person. The freedom of the western society has brought much material wealth, but in terms of personal pleasure, has brought much sadness and loneliness.

When material goods make a person happy, then his happiness is dependent on his ability to generate more and more material goods. When his happiness is based on building a happy loving family, then the materialistic society becomes an obstacle and a hindrance.

In all, thinking youth are realizing that the road to a proper marriage and happy life is not like a commodity purchased in a store. Entanglements cause emotional scarring and unhappiness. A person that is happy with his/her mate, is a person that has much going for them. To make a wise choice, learn from the wise, not from the mistakes of others.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 12, 2017, 08:58:14 PM
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 12, 2017, 07:17:45 PM


Please get that SJW nonsense out of my face. I would feel compelled to punch who ever is putting that in my face, so they might understand in real world terms why that pacification SJW propaganda is entirely detached from any sense of reality. That is complete nonsense. Put the women in charge and watch your society crumble to dust you closet-feminist fool.

I see your ideology as a weapon and even though it is passive aggressive, it is a real war and that is why you are receiving my angry replies. You had better understand that you are creating a war and you will be attacked back (not just by me, but by JAD's angry white man militias and dictator Trump and its offshoots ... this is the price you pay for lying to yourself). You won't be able to hide behind the lie of your propaganda forever. The civil war payback is coming soon.

It is that the blogger you have brought into this discussion Mr. Donaldson who wishes to impose his philosophy on me and mine via violence supporting the use of force to reverse woman's suffrage among other things.

...To your credit you have stated on multiple occasions you oppose such coercive strategies. You have argued against them so vociferously that it, apparently, got you banned from Mr. Donaldson's blog...

...I absolutely respect the rights of others, but others must extend that same courtesy to me. My culture and society has chosen to emancipate it's women. This means my daughters at age 18 are adults with complete freedom under law to own property, vote, and make independent decisions. I will certainly fight for them to keep these rights if other seek to steal them via violence.

If Mr. Donaldson wishes to live in a society where women have not been emancipated he needs to try and change society without coercion. In the US this means getting men and women to support repealing the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution via a new constitutional amendment. I fully support his right to try and do this but I doubt his prospects for success.

Alternatively he (and others that share his views) can move to a society where women have not been emancipated. There are not a lot of options here as most societies have emancipated their women.

But both you and JAD appear to both advocate the coercion of the State that has a monopoly on violence. You obscure your evil behind your passive aggressive implicit claim of a more virtuous and egalitarian society.

You implicitly demand that my female children not be denied exposure to certain "rights" else I am not allowed to live in "your" society. What happened to my society and my choice? In other words, you demand I invest for at least 18 years in my children and have all the repercussions+liability for how my children behave and perform, but you don't give me the control to decide what I think it best for my children. This is why fathers are defecting and allowing the State to raise their children, even if they are still around by implicitly allowing their kids to attend State (and even SJWs infected private) schools.

If you haven't noticed, the SJWs are starting to rail against the God religion, and your freedom to send your daughters to a religious oriented school of your choice is going to be lost in the societal organization and governance paradigm you advocate.

Hey what if I don't want your SJW female offspring voting on what is proper for my female offspring?

What I am driving at here is that your so called universal "rights" are actually allowing the camel's nose under opening in the bottom of the tent to enable the total annihilation of my culture and infect+overwhelm it with the culture of the State and SJWs. This is the insideous Marxist demoralization strategy. This is a slippery slope which slides all the way to the Frankenstein outcomes such as where both men and women defect from the optimum life strategies and society collapses.

You refuse to acknowledge that JAD is correct where he wrote:


Here I will quote it for you:

You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.

I will be the first to admit I needed a week or two to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint:

The Rise of Knowledge




I wish there was a solution but there isn't.


The solution is for people and humanity to gradually learn from our mistakes ultimately improving our behavior.

Competition of diverse strategies, because a monolithic top-down experiment is flirting with an extinction or megadeath event. Diversified failure is better than monolithic failure. This is Taleb's anti-fragility.

The best educator is consequence and the inevitable suffering it brings.

Precisely. Diverse competitions.

The role of the state is not to protect us from our bad choices.

Yet it does. Which incentivizes monolithic behavior.

The role of the state is to protect the innocent from the bad choices of others.

This only works well in very limited and clear cut cases.

In most situations, this turns into Frankenstein monolithic outcomes that kill the natural competition that is necessary for people to learn through the free market of diversified failure.

As a minanarchist, I support clear cut cases. For example, criminality as enumerated in prior post. I also mentioned today that I would support requiring all immigrants with a positive TB test to have undergone a certified DOT (doctor observed treatment meaning the doctor administers the drugs every week) for 6 - 9 months before they are allowed to immigrate to the USA. So we are stop importing multi-drug resistant strains. TB used to be nearly non-existent in the USA. Now it is coming back and with strains that can't be treated. This is fatal.

The state is failure personified.

Disagree. It is destruction of diversified failure and lumping it into monolithic failure. Not anti-fragile.

Taleb is much smarter than you or I. Maybe you should ask his opinion? I emailed him once and he replied.

At its best it is a bumbling and inefficient helper.

At its worst it is a bull in a china shop.

The worst is the end game inertia. Without exception. This is the lesson of Babylon.

The best the state can ever do is to contain and limit fallout to the individual alone.

Most of the time it accomplishes far less.

It accomplishes far worse always if given enough time to foment.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 12, 2017, 01:25:48 PM
So feel free to have your God religion, but please keep it to yourselves lest we find ourselves competing over our respective differences in philosophy. Are we really at the point where we need to annihilate the other in order to be free to practice our own?

Again what pisses me off are those who do not respect the right of others to have their own personal power and strategy. Those people who think the know what is best for everyone else's children.

I don't seek to impose my views on you merely share them. There is no reason for self censorship. It is that the blogger you have brought into this discussion Mr. Donaldson who wishes to impose his philosophy on me and mine via violence supporting the use of force to reverse woman's suffrage among other things.

Mr. Donaldson's  ideas are not going anywhere but if they had a chance of gaining traction they would certainly bring us into direct violent conflict. Far better to battle in the arena of ideas its cheaper. To your credit you have stated on multiple occasions you oppose such coercive strategies. You have argued against them so vociferously that it, apparently, got you banned from Mr. Donaldson's blog. I view that as powerfully laudatory.

I absolutely respect the rights of others, but others must extend that same courtesy to me. My culture and society has chosen to emancipate it's women. This means my daughters at age 18 are adults with complete freedom under law to own property, vote, and make independent decisions. I will certainly fight for them to keep these rights if others seek to steal them via violence.

If Mr. Donaldson wishes to live in a society where women have not been emancipated he needs to try and change society without coercion. In the US this means getting men and women to support repealing the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution via a new constitutional amendment. I fully support his right to try and do this but I doubt his prospects for success.

Alternatively he (and others that share his views) can move to a society where women have not been emancipated. There are not a lot of options here as most societies have emancipated their women.








sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 12, 2017, 10:16:17 AM
There are many people doing many different strategies for their lives and offspring. It is quite inspiring to see this.

What is actually the worst possible outcome is to have one strategy, religion, or culture adopted by everyone.

The reaction of white men against political correctness and woman's equality is a necessary reaction to the invasion of the monolithic groupthink over everything.

The backlash of the angry white man is merely the competition that nature requires to maintain sufficient diversity, resilience, and antifragility.

Again as I wrote to CoinCube weeks ago, there is no absolute truth other than the trend towards maximum entropy.

So feel free to have your God religion, but please keep it to yourselves lest we find ourselves competing over our respective differences in philosophy. Are we really at the point where we need to annihilate the other in order to be free to practice our own?

Again what pisses me off are those who do not respect the right of others to have their own personal power and strategy. Those people who think the know what is best for everyone else's children.

Edit: I wrote the above before reading CoinCube's post (and I didn't yet read all of his post), but obviously I was prescient predicting his error:

Knowledge has progressed and society is not returning to a conformation with less degrees-of-freedom. A society that enslaves and refuses to educate half of its population is simply uncompetitive over the long run.

If everyone does it one way, that is a reduction in entropy. If there is only one society (if such a monolithic groupthink was even sustainable), that is near 0 entropy.

If the diversity of men produced by not have political correctness mayonnaise dumped on top of them is greater by not educating their women, then that tribe may in fact prosper.

Neither I nor you know which strategy will be adapted to the unknown future. So that is why nature requires the antifragility of a diversity of strategies.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 12, 2017, 04:04:37 AM
Islamic parasitism on white production and debt-based socialism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbqLvFtw6o

Customs are really only sustained by the economics and natural reasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKPgX8sHqEM
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 12, 2017, 04:02:22 AM
Lets lay out all of the facts we have covered so far:

Facts:
1) Overall marriage rates have declined over the last 100 years.
2) Overall divorce rates have climbed over the last 100 years.
3) Women in the west have become emancipated for at most 100 years (right to vote in US granted in 1920).
4) Educated women are somewhat resistant to this decline in marriage. Their marriage rates have declined less and they are less likely to get divorced.
5) Educated women currently have fewer children then those with less education.
6) Participation in conservative religious groups may buffer against this decline in fertility.

Can these changes be tied to the emancipation of women? Yes but not for the reasons listed by the blogger above. Modern men and women are simply not adapted to select a partner from an unscreened population.  

Sexual Selection Under Parental Choice: The Evolution of Human Mating Behaviour
By Bruce Charlton
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2015/11/the-science-of-sex-most-important.html?m=1
Quote
The work of Menelaos Apostolou, a young Assistant Professor from Nicosia University in Cyprus - collected and explored in this recent book, turns-out to be the most significant 'paradigm shift' in the evolutionary psychology of sex since the modern field began in 1979 with Don Symons The evolution of human sexuality.

Apostolou's work means that this whole area of work - many thousands of papers and scores of best-selling books (not to mention the theoretical basis of the online Manosphere and PUA movement) - now need to be reframed within a new explanatory context.

In a nutshell, and with exhaustive documentation and rigorous argument, Apostolou establishes that parental choice is primary in human evolutionary history: for many hundreds of generations of our ancestors it was primarily parents who chose and controlled who their children would marry and reproduce-with; and the individual sexual preferences of both men and women were relegated to a secondary role.

This means that it was mainly parent choice that shaped human mating preferences - and personal choice would have been relegated to a subordinate role within and after marriage (e.g. infidelity choices; and the choice to end marriage - e.g. when to divorce).

Most of this book is taken up by the collection and discussion of a mass of empirical data - hundreds of references, and the detailed working-through of the implications; but the take home message is relatively simple and clear.

Apostolou shows that in most societies in human history, and continuing in most modern societies outside of The West, individual men and women had very little choice of their mates - and that this choice was nearly always made by their parents. In other words, marriages were arranged by the parents of the husband and wife - especially the daughter's marriage, and usually by their fathers more than their mothers.

Parents preferences for a marriage partner differ from those of their offspring. In general, parents (relatively to their children, especially daughter) prefer delaying sexual relationships until an early marriage with early onset of child-bearing and little or no extra-marital sex. And parents have been generally hostile to divorce.

The characteristics parents prefer (compared with individual preferences) include good character, ability to provide resources (especially men), coming from a 'good family' - with high status and wealth, and pre-marital chastity (especially in women).

The characteristics individuals prefer (compared with their parents) include beauty and good looks (hair, face, figure etc. in a woman; muscular physique in a man), a charming and entertaining personality, the ability to provide sexual excitement and so on.

The system of parental sexual choice seems to be unique to humans - which makes it a matter of exceptional biological interest: we may be the only species that has not evolved to choose our own mates.

More exactly, the ancestral system was probably (to simplify) that two sets of parents controlled who thier children married - the individual preferences of the prospective husband and wife may or may not have been consulted. Individual choice was probably important mostly after marriage - since there was the possibility of extra-marital liaisons (although Apostolou documents that these were extremely risky, and generally very harshly punished, up to and including death - especially for women).

But all the ancestral societies permitted divorce (while strongly discouraging it - since this undermined parental decisions) - although mainly in a context where one of the spouses turned out to be unsatisfactory from the point of view of providing grandchildren (eg. men who did not provide sufficient resources - due to their behaviour or from illness or injury, or women who were barren). Probably since women are more controlled in arranging marriage, it is mainly women who initiate divorces.

Apostolou summarizes this as: Parents decide who gets married, children decide whether they stay married.

Another way of describing this is that parents screen or filter prospective spouses - and individual preferences only work within this pre-screened and filtered population. Consequently, modern men and women are not adapted to select a partner from an unscreened population - and not equipped with the proper instincts to assist their choice; so they are vulnerable to deception and exploitation.

Therefore human evolutionary history has left modern individuals, in a world where parental choice and control has been all-but eliminated from mainstream life, woefully ill-equipped to manage their sexual lives.

This affects both men and women adversely - but in partly different ways. men and women share a common problem of not being worried-enoughabout the problem of finding suitable long-term mates, marrying and having children - precisely because this whole business was managed for them by parents through hundreds of preceding human generations.

Women delay and delay marriage and child-bearing, and seem unconcerned about their genetic extinction - because their deep inbuilt expectation is that these matters will be arranged for-them. men worry too much about attaining high status among men, and becoming a good provider - when these were selected for in a world where prospective in-laws wanted these attributes from men; but in the modern world they are an ineffectual strategy for getting a mate.
In sum (and in terms of their biological fitness) modern men are too worried about working hard, and not worried enough about meeting and impressing individual women.

So men and women who are apparently, in biological and historical terms, extremely well-qualified as potential husbands and wives, remain unmarried and childless in large and increasing numbers.

Modern single people therefore are much too happy about their living in a state of unattached childlessness, than is good for their reproductive success. And this (biologically) foolish happiness is at least partly a consequence of evolutionary history: people are behaving as if mating and marriage will be sorted-out by parents - but it isn't.

However, as is usual in works of evolutionary psychology - in a subject where the professionals are almost 100 percent atheists (and militant atheists at that!), in this book there is a too brief and conceptually inadequate consideration of the role of religion.

The subject gets about three pages, and religion is treated as merely a trumped-up rationalization for enforcing biological imperatives. However, it is not mentioned that in modern societies it is only among the religious that we can find biologically viable patterns of mating, marriage and family - and indeed only among some particular religions that are traditionalist in ethics and patriarchal in structure: which fits exactly with the evolutionary predictions.

My point is that religion needs to be regarded as a cause, not merely a consequence, of sexual behaviour and selection pressure; in sum, religion (more exactly, some specific religions) is the only known antidote to the pattern of maladaptive modern sexuality which is trending towards extinction.

Another omission is the role of intoxication by alcohol and drugs. Much of modern sexual behaviour is initiated in parties, bars and nightclubs; and occurs more-or-less under the influence of intoxicants - and this in itself deranges delicate brain functioning and destroys the benefits of behavioural adaptations that may have taken centuries or millennia to evolve.

An intoxicated person is maladaptive.

So, from a biological perspective, I would contend that there is no reason to suppose we can solve the biological problems of modernity outwith religion (especially since the social system of religion has in practice been replaced by... the mass media - see my book Addicted to Distraction). Biological knowledge can diagnose the problem - but science cannot provide a solution nor the motivation to implement it; since humans are not evolved to structure their sexuality according to biological principles.

We are 'set-up' to seek our own gratification and try to avoid suffering with reproductive success as a by-product - we do not seek directly to achieve optimal personal/ or tribal/ or national/ or species-level reproductive fitness.

Such omissions and other imperfections do not detract from the exceptional originality and importance of this book and the empirical research and theoretical discussion which it summarizes.

In a world where actual scientific achievement was the primary determinant of professional success; Menelaos Apostolou would be among the most prestigious, most cited, and most intellectually influential people in evolutionary psychology.

I hope that this deserved outcome will, sooner or later, come to pass.

So what we are dealing with here is a situation where both genders including men are poorly adapted when it comes to choosing our mates in life. We have evolved with the built in expectation that our parents will arrange these things for us but this no longer happens.

Humanity is currently under extreme selective pressure. We are a population maladapted to our current environment. One of the many stressors we face is an entirely new fitness landscape when it comes to reproduction.

The time when parents made our choices for us is gone. The new status quo has only existed for at most a hundred years (realistically much less). There simply has not been time for the population to adapt to what amounts to a huge environmental shift. We can thus expect to see many individual bad outcomes as individual fail in the face of selective pressure.

The clock, however, cannot be turned back. Knowledge has progressed and society is not returning to a conformation with less degrees-of-freedom. A society that enslaves and refuses to educate half of its population is simply uncompetitive over the long run. Women are emancipated and and not returning to slavery voluntary. Given the option between freedom and slavery human nature cries out for freedom. The genie is out of the bottle.

In the long run this will be a good thing as eventually a population will arise where both men and women are free and place proper focus time and effort in choosing a suitable mate and prioritizing child rearing.

Married Couples Who Attend Church Services Together Are Less Likely to Divorce
http://www.christianpost.com/news/married-couples-who-attend-church-services-together-are-less-likely-to-divorce-study-171853/
Quote

Married couples who attend church services together are more likely to live longer, are less likely to be depressed, and less likely to get divorced, according to a new study conducted by a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health.

The study, titled "Religion and Health: A Synthesis," conducted by Tyler J. VanderWeele, professor of epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health, noted that religious service attendance is connected to "better health outcomes, including longer life, lower incidence of depression, and less suicide," the Institute for Family Studies noted on Tuesday.

Married couples who attend religious services are 30 to 50 percent less likely to get divorced than those who do not, the study asserts. Such couples are also nearly 30 percent less likely to be depressed and, over a 16-year follow-up period, were shown to have significantly lower risk of dying.

In the meantime the best strategy for dealing with a novel environment is to optimize our chances for success. Educated women are more likely to get married and more likely to have long term and stable marriages so a wise man will seek out an educated wife, and a wise father will educate his sons and daughters. Religion is strongly associated with stable marriages and some conservative traditions may even offset the fertility decline associated with education so a wise man will also seek out a religious wife and a wise father will teach his children about God.

You can choose a practical strategy for dealing the relentless march of freedom or you can sit back and pine for the days of yesteryear. I imagine the Roman plantation owners were quite upset when they could no longer find cheap slave labor and the French noblemen were very distressed when the surfs started to disobey. Yearning for the "good old days" does not help one deal with the present. Women have claimed their freedom. This is the reality going forward and this reality is not going to be reversed.
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