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Topic: Dark Enlightenment - page 9. (Read 69319 times)

legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 12, 2017, 01:30:30 AM
Only perhaps the Mormons have managed to keep their women sufficiently repressed to keep all the key metrics up in the high 90th percentiles as per my grandparents' culture and generation.

...

Just because we basically force our white women to get a college education...

This is where the danger lies. It is not wise to repress or require collegiate education. There are women and men who gain a great deal from university, and there are others for whom it is not beneficial. Exploring avenues in life is one thing, yet institutionalized marketing has effectively encouraged "higher" education to a point where that path is followed mindlessly. Repression potentially denies genuine growth where it may benefit the most, while requirement can misdirect effort best utilized elsewhere.

Apprenticeships, familial pursuits, creative endeavors, business ventures and uncountable other possibilities fall by the wayside at the altar of the ivory tower. While there is nothing wrong with education in itself, pushing it in the same manner a street drug dealer does is an insidious detriment to humanity in aggregate. That is the distinction - individuals benefit at the expense of the whole.

Institutional policies like those put forth in the education sphere are present in other areas as well. It has become the temptation of something outside a given strength that clouds judgement. The reasoning necessary to pull apart the multiple layers of non-linear influences simply is not explored often enough to make an impact until it becomes glaringly obvious to those that cannot or will not spend the time in contemplation on the topic.

We can do anything, but should we? 1 Corinthians 6:12, 1 Corinthians 10:23

I find myself picturing the present American culture as a child (yet again) that has been disobedient, and now the parenting method used is one of forcing overindulgence. The culture overindulged in everything that made the nation great, and now it is being forced to gorge on those things to a point of detriment. I imagine the country is just about at the point where, having eaten far too much chocolate, the child is about to vomit and feel miserable.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 12, 2017, 01:28:06 AM
I would say I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong that was causing harm to the world and trying to figure out how the world could be headed towards good, because mostly all I was seeing around me was evil or failure (and this depressing perspective also contributed to my rigor mortis). But the rules didn't seem to help resolve any of that (and rendered even me more powerless and incapacitated). It was also to fulfill a love and respect for my beloved grandfather who said Jesus was the granite he stood on when everything else was sinking sand (product of familycide divorced hippie boomers and running away to the clusterfuck of severe poverty and feral disintegration into a brothel as JAD alludes, etc, etc). After his death in 1996, I taped that leaflet from his funeral on the wall above my computer screen, because I was knee deep in sinking sand all around me. But you know, I continued to sink and by January 2017, I was up to my lips in sinking sand and about to suffocate.

What I see now is that my grandfather actually failed miserably with his offspring (actually I knew that when I was 15 but nobody would let me say it and they always told me to understand my parents ... how many times are we supposed to understand people who are not even trying to change? which brings up back to the point of helping people who aren't trying to figure it out which is I am also sure is how they viewed me but it also how I viewed them!). So as much as I admire him, I now realize he failed. And as I told CoinCube in private several weeks ago, I don't want to end up a statistic (of how males fail in life, if they lacked a father around) so I am fighting back NOW with my mind.

I was not there to witness, so I am unable to make absolute statements. From what you describe - correct me if I'm wrong - it sounds like a "save the world" mentality. Admirable, but overwhelming.

As for the rules, Jesus was the sacrifice to end sacrifices. In doing so, the law no longer dooms humanity to spiritual death if the act is accepted by believing. The offer of forgiveness involves two parties, and if the forgiver is not accepted, then there is no salvation. Acceptance does not obviate adhering to the law, but failing to do so no longer condemns unless the believer rejects God again. Romans 7-8 can be difficult, but explain the changed circumstance.

The love and respect for your grandfather is good, but what he did was what he did and what you do and learn and correct is yours. We all have our own paths, and Jesus makes sure we know that God is the priority - Luke 9:57-62.

While there's no promise of life being easy, and plenty to state that the world will despise you for following Jesus' teachings, difficult times could be discipline or an effort to guide you away from detriment. It's one thing to rely on Jesus for strength to endure, but it's also important to contemplate the circumstances and related mindset to assess whether there's a different course of action you're being directed toward.

Man has the ability to rationalize, and the desire to create vision. Man also can learn to cultivate his ability to listen spiritually despite the noise of the world. On occasion, I've found myself hitting resistance and then being guided to a solution or alternate path that superseded the prior one. In several instances, completely unrelated issues promptly resolved themselves. Some call it coincidence, but when it starts happening reliably...

It also seems that Colossians 3:21 applies. In what sense did he fail? Who was denying you a voice, him or other family? Guidance and discipline are good, but control and domination can distort and tempt on the way to becoming antagonising and domineering. Acknowledging you, even as a youth, would've been a critical first step without which no other progress could be made regardless of whether you were right or wrong. I don't know how you were at 15 but it's all too easy to dismiss or ignore children, and anyone not reflecting on their own actions is foolish - Matthew 18:1-6, Proverbs 15:32.

Ignoring natural laws and reality wasn't working. Sorry. God and "love" was a way to become less detached with the hard realities and hard decisions that should have been made and instead were allowed to fester in this nebulous delusion.

Proverbs discusses natural laws to quite an extent. Repercussions are described, and the only time I've seen anything to be ignored is when there is a short-term benefit at a cost of the long-term. That sounds more like human nature, avoiding the issue. People can also be educated into indecision.

God will remain unfalsifiable.

And unverifiable.

It would be so simple if God were directly tangible, but then faith and trust wouldn't matter. Yet we have faith and trust in other people who may or may not be reliable to varying degrees. The only difference I see there is a physical presence.

Well expressed. Thank you.

Why can't I believe we are all part of holistic system (obviously we are) without the necessity of believing that a fatherly figure has it all under management? Why does the unfalsiable God idol have to enter the picture? That fatherly God certainly didn't have it figured out in my case and I don't want to hear that BS again about how he was testing me and how all the stupid decisions were part of my destiny, etc.. That is encouraging me to continue to fail in some nebulous concept instead of using my brain to figure it out.

My pleasure.

Your belief, and your decision to believe, is always your own. Why do we have the ability to choose?

There are any number of possibilities for your difficulties, some of which might be considered BS. It could be guidance, discipline, punishment, using you as an example such as with Job or maybe you're an easy target for satanic powers. Or it could be that God does not exist and the nihilist view is correct. Does the explanation matter when we aren't currently in a position to fully contemplate all of the variables involved? I certainly don't know, sorry I can't help more there.

Computers are fantastic, wondrous machines. They're also borderline pointless without being connected to one another. Whether computers were created or spontaneously came into existence, the information present within and the communication that occurs among them is a creation far more potent than any individual machine. We may be on the verge of finally creating an AI capable of recognizing its existence, so what does that say about our similarities to God? I think it comes back again to us growing and learning in an environment specifically for that - physical echoes of a true reality beyond the confines of our known universe.

To take a cue from Plato's Cave, how would you explain to Mario that there's a world beyond Koopas and Bob-oms and Piranha Plants where nothing is trying to kill him every waking moment? Would Mario love his creator for offering hope? Or would Mario hate his creator for putting him there in the first place? Or would Mario be indifferent, thrilled by the violence and exhilarating challenge of it all?

If God's presence would tip the scales of choice in a desire to create an entity that truly appreciates its creator, then it makes sense that His presence not be overly apparent. So how to communicate? I'd vote for doing so indirectly using coincidence and prophecy as a solid foundation, potentially with direct intervention at key points or using the rules of the game and environment. Maybe there would be other ways?

I suppose this generally boils down to the notion that if we are derived from something, it makes a kind of sense that our behavior is like that from which we are derived from. Similar to how a cat has an innate ability to hunt and groom itself. That delves into evolution and some notions on time-frames, spiritual placement and earth as an incubator... but that's another conversation entirely.

What specific experience do you feel I might ignore that is in the Bible if I don't submit to this supernatural, metaphysical father figure?

Good question. I'll have to ponder that one for a bit.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 11, 2017, 11:24:20 PM
The irony that some of the same people who act so holier than thou about slavery, are the same ones who will castigate (brow beat & employ political correctness pressure on) those who don't spayed their pets and teenage daughters.

"Spaying/Neutering - American Humane" (americanhumane.org) You see if you don't do this, you are not humane!

I even read that many teenage girls are being given injections that make them infertile for 7 years so they won't burden themselves or society with pregnancy. (And who knows the long-term effects)

Obviously some of the same people who argue against slavery, are hypocrites who actively employ slavery against teenagers. And implicitly admit that females need to be protected against outcomes they can't control without some aid.

And the analogous enslavement point applies to education. The leftists are the ones who insist that young girls not be allowed to follow their instinctive play and learning habits and instead be force fed education which teaches them to reject those instincts.

It really is all about a power struggle and who has the power. Slavery is never eliminated. Never! Don't be a fool. Society is trying to enslave me (and you).

Who should be in control, the strong men over each of their tribes or the collective?

Those who are jealous that they don't have real power give themselves the illusion of control over their weak ass reality by leveraging a collective insanity to try to destroy the real personal power of others. When men take control over their families and women (thus empowering their tribe for maximum happiness and success), this is a real personal power that enrages those who want to have power over men. And these jealous insane leftists replace real personal power with a power vacuum of self-destruction.

That is what I have to say about the reality of slavery.

Those weak men who abuse their power to become less productive as a tribe, thus lose their power. I am contemplating if (some interpretations of) Islam fits that model of appealing to self-destructive men who want all the goodies without all of the obligations to remain competitive and successful. The thought comes to mind that if Western culture keeps attacking the personal power of men, then Islam may become more attractive alternative to disenfranchised men. As @trollercoaster noted, the Western females might already be getting wet vaginas when they are dominated by Islamic rapefugees (this conjecture isn't well documented yet, but it would fit what we would expect from females as being natural and I am not saying that to disrespect or demean women). If you argue that women should have the freedom to fuck everything that makes them horny, then as argued upthread, you want self-destruction of the society:


I don't trust the collective (in an armed society he'd already been dead at the crime scene):

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/02/11/canadian-man-who-beheaded-bus-passenger-granted-total-freedom.html

Edit: I see JAD and I had a similar independent thought process and he articulates some concepts that were rolling around in my head:

http://blog.jim.com/economics/the-cost-disease/

Of course, I continue to diverge from his fragile top-down prescriptions.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 11, 2017, 01:36:25 AM
Yes the world was different in the past especially prior to WW2. In those days higher education in women was not associated with higher marriage rates and very few women pursued higher education.

However, we are talking about the world of today are we not?

Today more women than men pursue higher education and such education is associated both with an increased chance of marriage and with a higher probability of that marriage lasting.

This is one of your "damned facts"

This particular fact is at at odds with your current worldview that women should not be educated so I am not surprised to see you reject it.

On the spot you you have developed a new rationalization calling this fact a "temporal reactionary aberration". You have presented no data to support your theory that this is temporary. Indeed a look over the last ten years shows the divergence is growing and the marriage percentage of educated women is increasing and decoupling from that of the uneducated.



(Note the chart above covers a period of over 45 years and thus includes more than one generation)

I wrote "hypothesis" and you re-characterize it as a "rationalization". You are still fighting me, but you are doing in a passive aggressive form of condescending tone.

Kindly remove the effects of welfare from your chart, then we can talk about whether the statistic on high school educated white trash and mostly brown trash is a meaningful datum.

You have presented no data whatsoever to refute my hypothesis and I know damn well what is going on, because I been out in the real world while you've ostensibly been living your bubble.

I also know damn well that what I stated about Gen X is correct, because I've done a fair amount of reading about Gen X and I know we share certain worldview about our parents and grandparents' generations.

Edit: and I just found this: http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/divorce-rates-and-generation-x/

Also what the statistics only tell us indirectly by the fact that only 65 - 75% get married (with 40 - 50% divorced) versus 93% (and near 0% divorce) before 1950s (and you haven't even incorporated WHITE Gen Z for which marriage rates are likely to plummet if Japan is any indication of our future), is that men are making a lot more sacrifices (in terms of control) to get/remain married and the result is a slide to the left in everything and loss of production, technological superiority, testosterone, control over the upbringing of the offspring, etc..

We men get stuck with all the repercussions, but then are no longer given the commensurate control. That is a system of failure. And I refuse to be part of it and perpetuate it. It is vile, immoral, despicable, and evil.

Your desired remedy is God religion, but this also has very high leakage as evident by the upthread essay by an orthodox Jewish woman who explained she was into social active causes and a career woman. Only perhaps the Mormons have managed to keep their women sufficiently repressed to keep all the key metrics up in the high 90th percentiles as per my grandparents' culture and generation.

So you go with your modern ideology. Let's compete. You go your way, and I will go mine.

I find it repulsive and insulting that my Gen X's valiant attempt to swim upriver against the worst possible environment, is being used against us to argue statistically that the situation is normalizing. If you really want to get down to the truth with statistics, then do it properly. Just as you wouldn't come here citing clinical studies that were half-assed. But of course, you don't want to know the damned facts, so you will just massage the data to invent your own ideology because you refuse to honor nature. You hate nature. You hate men (because you can't love men and simultaneously not admit our superior role in nature).

What your chart shows is that marriage is declining, which means we are losing the war. It shows that starting with the Gen X generation, the decline in marriage stabilized temporarily (at an ongoing lower level!) only for those with a college degree. Well yes, because these are the marriageable white women who the Gen X white men want to marry in order to continue our culture and race. And the men are trying to hang on, but they know damn well they are losing the war, and that is why all this shit is going on right now with Trump. I understand these middle class marriages and how dysfunctional they are. And the results of that dysfunction is coming down the pike...

Just because we basically force our white women to get a college education, doesn't mean that the marriages are equatable to the marriages before WW2. What we have now are Frankenstein families who satiate their sorry ass predicament with McFat and Facebook addictions. We can put a Snickers bar wrapper on a turd and count it as chocolate in our statistics.

You can't claim to me that all the leftist college education hasn't moved the marriages to the left. Men now cook and change diapers and that is less time they have to be rocket engineers.

If we actually measured everything about marriage and did the accurate analysis, we would find that the concept of marriage that our grandparents knew, has all but died. But we did it to ourselves. We were complacent. We were ideologues. We thought our daughters should be stellar in all the arts and possible achievements. We white men did it to ourselves.

You could at least do some Googling first before being so smug:

People are waiting longer to get married and so more single twentysomethings in Generation Y will go on to marry in their 30s than in previous generations. Today, 5% of men and 10% of women aged 25 are married, compared to 60% of men and 80% of women 44 years ago.

Most of the Baby Boomer generation married at some stage, with 87% of men and 92% of women tying the knot at least once. But husbands and wives are expected to become a minority, making up 41% of the population, by 2031. The fastest growing group will be those who remain single, and analysis by the Marriage Foundation, using the latest Office for National Statistics data, suggests that only half of today’s 20-year-olds will ever marry—52% of men and 53% of women.

Generation Y’s attitude to marriage is shaped by their parents, the Baby Boomers, who gave marriage a bad name with their divorce-happy habits.

Marriage for the female in her early 30s isn't marriage! You can't make a family with marriage that late! It is some symbolic thing called marriage, but it isn't marriage as we knew it.

Here are the facts:

* According to the U.S. Census Bureau there has been a significant increase in the number of women who have never been married, particularly in the 20-34 age bracket (Millennial women.)

* A survey of Gen Y women revealed that 59% feel that “living together” is a legitimate lifestyle and a majority said it is okay to remain unmarried even if they have children.

Here are a few additional facts that may appear to be unrelated to marriage and our changing ideas of what constitutes normal and/or healthy family units:

* 37% of 18-29 year-olds have been unemployed or under-employed during the recession.

* More than 1 in 3 young workers say they are living with their parents.

* Only 58% of Millennials say they pay their bills on time.

* Only 21% of Millennials say they are married, (half the percentage as their parent’s generation at the same age.)

We may be witnessing the unbundling of love and sex.

It was a recent visit to Wal-Mart that started me thinking about the idea of unbundling sex and love.  Boomers and the pill started it but Gen Y seems determined to finish the job.  What Boomer could have imagined a product bundle of lubricant, condoms, and discount movie tickets? (Trust me…I saw it on the shelf!)

Public disenchantment with marriage is reflected in national surveys. Half of American adults believe society is just as well off if people have priorities other than marriage and children, according to the recent Pew report.

And opinions on this issue differ sharply by age — with young adults much more likely than older adults to say society is just as well off if people have priorities other than marriage and children. Fully two-thirds of those ages 18 to 29 (67 percent) express this viewpoint, as do 53 percent of those ages 30 to 49. Among those ages 50 and older, most (55 percent) say society is better off if people make marriage and children a priority, Pew found.

Btw, there is a humongous oversupply of unmarriageable leftover Asians coming and they are entirely unrealistic and grossly overestimate the supply of naive Westerners that are going to be willing to swallow the millions of leftover Asian women coming (the Philippines dating sites are also overflowing with them as well):

Asians are marrying later, and less, than in the past. This has profound implications for women, traditional family life and Asian politics

WITH her filmy polka-dot dress, huge sunglasses and career as a psychologist, Yi Zoe Hou of Taiwan might seem likely to be besieged by suitors. Yet, at 35, she is well past Taiwan's unspoken marriage deadline. “It's a global village,” she shrugs. “If I can't find a Taiwanese guy that accepts my age, I can find another man somewhere else.” Maybe—but since she still wants children, Ms Hou is also wondering whether to use a sperm bank or ask a male friend to be a sperm donor. She represents a new world of family life for Asians.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 11, 2017, 01:00:06 AM
Experience is arguably the greatest educator. A youth trying everything but a proven successful method will, more often than not, eventually realize the optimal path was the one from the voice of experience. What happens then? Does the now experienced youth return to his father with new wisdom and make amends, or does he simply continue on his way and disregard family?

Assume God is real. He has a fatherly role, and keeps earth safe from destruction catastrophic enough to wipe out all of mankind. Similar to a game designer, he attends to every detail of the world - every character, every creature, every stone and all of the algorithms running the show; He lines up the living dominoes and sets them cascading on their way. He creates a human and esteems man as his own child. This human is given a choice between temptation and obedience. Man chooses temptation and is sent packing, not as unjustly cruel punishment but to become experienced in understanding.

Now what happens when man has gained wisdom and understanding? Does he acknowledge that not all in this world is knowable or falsifiable, or ignore family and wander the world looking for what he already has? The communication and relationship are what the bible is getting across. I would argue that the greatest lesson is not explicitly in the book: it comes from the experience of living as described in it.

This is not to scream "repent and believe" but to describe the message in the noise; your belief is your choice. In my view, there is far more to the bible than laws about behaviors and sage wisdom. The parts combine to make something greater than the whole. Not to mention that so many stories from Genesis onward point to Jesus, how his life and ministry were to unfold, especially Isaiah 53.

Well expressed. Thank you.

Why can't I believe we are all part of holistic system (obviously we are) without the necessity of believing that a fatherly figure has it all under management? Why does the unfalsiable God idol have to enter the picture? That fatherly God certainly didn't have it figured out in my case and I don't want to hear that BS again about how he was testing me and how all the stupid decisions were part of my destiny, etc.. That is encouraging me to continue to fail in some nebulous concept instead of using my brain to figure it out.

What specific experience do you feel I might ignore that is in the Bible if I don't submit to this supernatural, metaphysical father figure?

What seems to happen is that when we humans attain a state of satisfaction in our lives, we want to feel an emotional connection to the whole. We relax our competitive fire and it can also reflect complacency in a cultural evolutionary competition sense.

I have been under distress most of my life, thus when we see our lives as shit and a struggle, we are less apt to have the above emotion. However, I am familiar with that tendency, because I have had some brief periods in my life where I temporarily experienced the above satisfaction.

What I can say though is I never truly related to the concept of loving the Lord as father of all. The concept never spoke to my emotions. My heart warms to individuals whom as I know them I feel they have a warm heart. But I don't trust the "heart" of ideologues. My entire life people have been trying to force me to think a certain way and I am damn fucking tired of it. No Mas!  Angry  Angry  Angry

If someone browbeats me (you are not in any way doing that so far miscreanity), they are apt to lose those eyebrows.  Angry Reason with me in a fair way, and I will certainly be open minded. Ridicule me when I am being sincere, and I'll grant them the fight they deserve (or perhaps if they are irrelevant I will just ignore). And one thing I learned the hard way in the Philippines after losing an eye due to a gang attack and also in separate incident getting a hammer to my skull (for which I still have a 1" hole in my skull) after knocking all a guy's front teeth out on to the sandy soil at my feet (because he was throwing stones at my house while I was trying to work and he wouldn't stop) and then granting his mother's request to stop (then he ran off to get the hammer while I was talking to her), is fighting fair or not fighting to the death is very risky. Fight me at your peril, because I will not risk my self-defense again by stopping my attack.

Btw, the reason that guy was throwing stones at the house had something to do with an argument about a hammock with my ex-wife. And I was not a party to that squabble. But you have to realize it was a boiling point, because I was writing Art-O-Matic and CoolPage with a karaoke blasting away at such high volume nearly every day and night, that I couldn't hear my own voice inside the house. I was also getting dysentery and horrible GI infections roughly biweekly. I saw my neighbors wearing my underwear and other clothing that disappeared little by little. Getting heckled with "hey joe, fuck you" and stones thrown at me when I would go jogging. Jeepneys running me off the road and into ankle deep mud when I was jogging. Etc, etc, etc.. Impregnate the wrong lady and then try to uphold your responsibility as a father...

And don't armchair expert to me about I should have returned to the USA to work, because I did do that! But I can't tell you why that didn't work, because it would require me to talk about someone else behind their back and violate their privacy and so this explanation ends here.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 10, 2017, 09:32:31 PM

Digging to the full report:

Historically, women who graduated from college were far more likely than any other group of women — whether high school dropouts, high school graduates, or women with some college – to remain single their entire lives. As late as 1950, a quarter of white female college graduates 40 years of age had never married, compared to compared to only 7 percent of their counterparts without a college degree. (See this CCF Report)

And additionally note that even though my X generation has improved the relative ratios for marriage between educated and non-educated (which I've hypothesized is a temporal reactionary aberration, and no data has been offered to refute my hypothesis), our rate of marriage is still much less than it was for non-educated before 1950, so this supports my point that we are losing the cultural war.

Yes the world was different in the past especially prior to WW2. In those days higher education in women was not associated with higher marriage rates and very few women pursued higher education.

However, we are talking about the world of today are we not?

Today more women than men pursue higher education and such education is associated both with an increased chance of marriage and with a higher probability of that marriage lasting.

This is one of your "damned facts"

This particular fact is at at odds with your current worldview that women should not be educated so I am not surprised to see you reject it.

On the spot you you have developed a new rationalization calling this fact a "temporal reactionary aberration". You have presented no data to support your theory that this is temporary. Indeed a look over the last ten years shows the divergence is growing and the marriage percentage of educated women is increasing and decoupling from that of the uneducated.



(Note the chart above covers a period of over 45 years and thus includes more than one generation)
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 10, 2017, 08:25:04 PM
Might I ask elaboration on your attempt to embrace Christianity? What did you try to do, how did you try it, etc? If there are links to previously written explanations, that might be more expedient.

I would say I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong that was causing harm to the world and trying to figure out how the world could be headed towards good, because mostly all I was seeing around me was evil or failure (and this depressing perspective also contributed to my rigor mortis). But the rules didn't seem to help resolve any of that (and rendered even me more powerless and incapacitated). It was also to fulfill a love and respect for my beloved grandfather who said Jesus was the granite he stood on when everything else was sinking sand (myself being a product of familycide divorced hippie boomers and running away to the clusterfuck of severe poverty and feral disintegration into a brothel as JAD alludes, etc, etc). After his death in 1996, I taped that leaflet from his funeral on the wall above my computer screen, because I was knee deep in sinking sand all around me. But you know, I continued to sink and by January 2017, I was up to my lips in sinking sand and about to suffocate.

What I see now is that my grandfather actually failed miserably with his offspring (actually I knew that when I was 15 but nobody would let me say it and they always told me to understand my parents ... how many times are we supposed to understand people who are not even trying to change? which brings up back to the point of helping people who aren't trying to figure it out which is I am also sure is how they viewed me but it also how I viewed them!). So as much as I admire him, I now realize he failed. And as I told CoinCube in private several weeks ago, I don't want to end up a statistic (of how males fail in life, if they lacked a father around) so I am fighting back NOW with my mind.

Ignoring natural laws and reality wasn't working. Sorry. God and "love" was a way to become less detached with the hard realities and hard decisions that should have been made and instead were allowed to fester in this nebulous delusion.

When exploring the bible, the details are important for historicity. Egyptian chronology is undergoing upheaval due to inconsistencies in traditional dating compared with timelines in other regions of the world - see Donovan Courville and David Rohl. Should those revisions bear scrutiny and find acceptance, biblical accuracy will be profoundly vindicated.

Sorry but I now am ashamed (feeling remorse and regret) that I was expending (scarce resource) mental energy on these sort of elaborate attempts to justify God, as I alluded to in my comments to which you are replying. Regardless of the veracity of circumstantial support for superstition, God will remain unfalsifiable.

Experience is arguably the greatest educator. A youth trying everything but a proven successful method will, more often than not, eventually realize the optimal path was the one from the voice of experience. What happens then? Does the now experienced youth return to his father with new wisdom and make amends, or does he simply continue on his way and disregard family?

Assume God is real. He has a fatherly role, and keeps earth safe from destruction catastrophic enough to wipe out all of mankind. Similar to a game designer, he attends to every detail of the world - every character, every creature, every stone and all of the algorithms running the show; He lines up the living dominoes and sets them cascading on their way. He creates a human and esteems man as his own child. This human is given a choice between temptation and obedience. Man chooses temptation and is sent packing, not as unjustly cruel punishment but to become experienced in understanding.

Now what happens when man has gained wisdom and understanding? Does he acknowledge that not all in this world is knowable or falsifiable, or ignore family and wander the world looking for what he already has? The communication and relationship are what the bible is getting across. I would argue that the greatest lesson is not explicitly in the book: it comes from the experience of living as described in it.

This is not to scream "repent and believe" but to describe the message in the noise; your belief is your choice. In my view, there is far more to the bible than laws about behaviors and sage wisdom. The parts combine to make something greater than the whole. Not to mention that so many stories from Genesis onward point to Jesus, how his life and ministry were to unfold, especially Isaiah 53.

Well expressed. Thank you.

Why can't I believe we are all part of holistic system (obviously we are) without the necessity of believing that a fatherly figure has it all under management? Why does the unfalsiable God idol have to enter the picture? That fatherly God certainly didn't have it figured out in my case and I don't want to hear that BS again about how he was testing me and how all the stupid decisions were part of my destiny, etc.. That is encouraging me to continue to fail in some nebulous concept instead of using my brain to figure it out.

What specific experience do you feel I might ignore that is in the Bible if I don't submit to this supernatural, metaphysical father figure?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 10, 2017, 07:28:40 PM
In the first study the data came from The National Longitudinal Survey of Youth 1979 consists of men and women who were born in the years 1957–1964 and were ages 14 to 22 when first interviewed in 1979 with later data collection and follow up.

What part of this can't you read?

Historically, college-educated women had been less likely to marry compared with less educated women.14

...

14 Paula England and Jonathan Bearak, “Women’s education and their likelihood of marriage: a historical reversal,” fact sheet prepared for the Council on Contemporary Families, April 2012, https://contemporaryfamilies.org/womens-education-and-marriage-release/.

Digging down to the cited reference:

For most of the 20th century, women who completed higher education were far less likely to be married than their less-educated counterparts. Then in 2010, the Council on Contemporary Families (CCF) reported new research showing that although college-educated women were still more likely to never marry at all than women with lower educational levels...

Digging to the full report:

Historically, women who graduated from college were far more likely than any other group of women — whether high school dropouts, high school graduates, or women with some college – to remain single their entire lives. As late as 1950, a quarter of white female college graduates 40 years of age had never married, compared to compared to only 7 percent of their counterparts without a college degree. (See this CCF Report)

And additionally note that even though my X generation has improved the relative ratios for marriage between educated and non-educated (which I've hypothesized is a temporal reactionary aberration, and no data has been offered to refute my hypothesis), our rate of marriage is still much less than it was for non-educated before 1950, so this supports my point that we are losing the cultural war. As I've argued to CoinCube, we are being diluted by about 20 - 25% per generation being lost to Marxism (and probably greater than a majority sliding towards the left gradually so the net aggregate movement left). Perhaps the rate of attrition is better in orthodox Judaism, but as long as they are highly educating their females and allowing them to vote and have highly active careers with social activism themes, then they are also subject to attrition from within.

Quote
...he still is up against (((powerful interests))) pushing the leftist agenda, the media, and academia. Most likely, women and non-whites will still be allowed to vote. Same for millennials and gen Zers, who have effectively been irreparably damaged by the university system and popular media.

Voter ID, immigration reform, crippling the State Department and disabling Soros should win us 2018 and 2020. Maybe 2022 and 2024 After that, will have to cancel elections or disenfranchise women. Probably will have to cancel the 2024 election or disenfranchise women for 2024, which is going to be hard.

And here is the precedent that a Trump dictator could create which I warned about upthread:

There is no guarantee that a leftist as bad or even worse than Obama or Hillary won’t seize the throne in 2020, and inherit those executive powers expanded by the Trump administration, along with the benefit of hindsight with Trump’s gameplan to power recorded in history.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 10, 2017, 07:19:08 PM
In the first study the data came from The National Longitudinal Survey of Youth 1979 consists of men and women who were born in the years 1957–1964 and were ages 14 to 22 when first interviewed in 1979 with later data collection and follow up.

In the second study the data comes from a 2006-2010 National Survey of Family Growth among women ages 22-44 who have ever been married.

In the third study the data is from the 2015 U.S. Bureau of the Census examining the percent of women age 40-45 who are married.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 10, 2017, 06:32:47 PM
Apparently you did not read the entire page carefully and look at the cited reference.

I provided data from three separate sources that all say the same thing. If you think the data is incorrect the onus is on you to present data not opinion or personal anecdotes.

Just the facts please.

Being respectful includes not debating disingenuously and not being lazy. I already told you where the facts are, just go follow the cited references on the page you cited and dig down and you find all the data that refutes your cited narrowly focused study which was only narrowly focused on my X generation:

Apparently you did not read the entire page carefully and look at the cited reference. Up until my X generation started to heavily influence the statistics, indeed college educated women were much less likely to marry.

...

My X generation is fighting valiantly against the tide, but we are losing the cultural evolutionary war. Our generation is not the most populous. That study was very narrowly focused on my X generation and was not a complete sample of the population at large.

In short, you are citing cherry picked data, which is the epitome of using statistics to lie to match an agenda.

And that is what really irritates me about leftists and Marxist (and God religion) zealouts is they go out of their way to build elaborate lies (or unfalsiable superstition).

Cripes you are supposed to be a scientist and academic, you should not be this sloppy. You should have immediately noted that the sample was only those born between 1958 and 1965. I was trying to be respectful to you and you are once again being condescending to both myself and to JAD, by stating the JAD is incorrect yet you are being sloppy and stating that my reply was only opinion or innuendo.

Stress reducing tangent:

http://imgur.com/gallery/bz242
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 10, 2017, 06:08:49 PM
Apparently you did not read the entire page carefully and look at the cited reference.

I provided data from three separate sources that all say the same thing. If you think the data is incorrect the onus is on you to present data not opinion or personal anecdotes.

Just the facts please.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 10, 2017, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: James Donaldson
Highly educated women get married less, get divorced more, and have fewer children than less educated women.

Let's look at each claim in turn.

1) Highly educated women get married less.

This is untrue women who get a college degree are more likely to get married then women who do not complete high school.

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/marriage-and-divorce-patterns-by-gender-race-and-educational-attainment-5.htm

Apparently you did not read the entire page carefully and look at the cited reference. Up until my X generation started to heavily influence the statistics, indeed college educated women were much less likely to marry. What you are seeing is the fact that my generation is the product of divorced hippies and we are rebelling against divorce and the destruction of the family.

But the fact remains that college education destroyed the country, because now you have the Y and Z generations following with the former being the 2nd batch of very spoiled kids from the hippies and the Z generation doesn't want to have anything to do with marriage.

Also the college educated women are getting married later and thus this is impacting fertility.

Also the statistics are slightly skewed by the fact that black males with no education rarely marry, so education for them is better than their instinctive culture.

My X generation is fighting valiantly against the tide, but we are losing the cultural evolutionary war. Our generation is not the most populous. That study was very narrowly focused on my X generation and was not a complete sample of the population at large.

Also I expect the reason that high school or less education is now correlating with much lower marriage and much higher divorce rates, is because:

a) Now only we don't have normal, hardworking, disciplined white women in that category contrary to what was the case when woman's suffrage was first enacted in the USA, and instead we have mostly white trash and brown trash.
b) Welfare and an overall improved standard of living enables trash to pop out babies out of wedlock without repercussions.

To show how statistics can lie, I am included in those who have married and not divorced by age 46, and also college educated, but my marriage, kids, and life are in shambles. And if I had followed what my hippie generation Dad had demanded I do, I would have been divorced at age 37. My generation is still remembering the culture of my grandparents, but the following generations will not have this perspective to draw on. And our marriages do not serve as strong examples because the schools have so eroded the minds of our offspring as compared to my generation.




I am rushed out the door, but I am confident you will find similar holes in your stats.

3) Highly educated women have fewer children.

Only this claim is true. But even this does not not hold true across all of society. There is less data to work with here but in the Health and Religion thread I reviewed the indicators that some religious groups defy this trend. In these education appears to result in more not fewer children.

"Damned facts" do not help us understand the world if they are untrue or not understood in proper context.
 

It holds true in the aggregate and thus the outcome of the aggregate society.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 10, 2017, 02:54:01 AM

More damned facts:

(Various links from blogger James Donaldson)


I read through the links. A lot of it is unreferenced opinion some of it describes real world problems and some of it is simply untrue.

Quote from: James Donaldson
Highly educated women get married less, get divorced more, and have fewer children than less educated women.

Let's look at each claim in turn.

1) Highly educated women get married less.

This is untrue women who get a college degree are more likely to get married then women who do not complete high school.

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics
https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2013/article/marriage-and-divorce-patterns-by-gender-race-and-educational-attainment-5.htm

2) Highly educated women get divorced more.

This is also untrue highly educated women get divorced less much less.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/04/education-and-marriage/


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08/19/the-most-educated-women-are-the-most-likely-to-be-married/amp/


3) Highly educated women have fewer children.

Only this claim is true. But even this does not not hold true across all of society. There is less data to work with here but in the Health and Religion thread I reviewed the indicators that some religious groups defy this trend. In these education appears to result in more not fewer children.

"Damned facts" do not help us understand the world if they are untrue or not understood in proper context.
  
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 10, 2017, 01:28:53 AM
Women in the workplace:

...

Yes. The common threads are discipline and education, the latter of which has been distorted to such an extent that the former has become a grey area.

Treating a dog like a baby denies the dog its innate nature of being a dog; that principle applies universally for species as well as genders although problems may not be apparent immediately.

I know of no simple solution that does not involve counterproductive violence.

My problem with the God religion is it sent me down a path of trying to follow some rules which I did not understand the goal, other than to serve some nebulous God and "love". And therefor my mind and competitive motivation was not (fully) engaged. My mind was sent off on tangents of trying to find superstitious correlations such as the puzzle in the Bible about the Abomination of the Desolation and its relationship to the possible year of the return of Jesus. And thus the period in which I tried to embrace Christianity from roughly 2006 to 2012 or so, was the most destructive period of my life where I made the absolute worst possible decisions, was very unproductive in my career, and destroyed my life. So yeah, I pretty much hate the God religion. I prefer to use my intellect.

Rebuttals and discussion is welcome. Let's try to be respectful to all sides.

Might I ask elaboration on your attempt to embrace Christianity? What did you try to do, how did you try it, etc? If there are links to previously written explanations, that might be more expedient.

I had struggled with the laws as well, preferring to have comprehensive explanations and detailed history accompanying concepts. The problem here is that rationalization only gets one to the point of considering alternate viewpoints. Dangerously, misinterpretation causes misapplication and commensurate return; part of the learning process.

Adding to the confusion, many churches espouse damnation for breaking the laws even though God proclaimed Daniel a man after His own heart despite committing adultery and murder - Acts 13:22, 2 Samuel 7:14-16. Talk about a WTF moment. To sum: reading directly from the bible is far more enlightening than adhering to the dogma of one denomination or another.

Getting caught up in the details is easy; I've spent a good amount of time pondering Revelation and other prophecies. What's most important is the simple command from Jesus to love one another - John 13:34, Romans 13:8

From a familial and spiritual perspective, it can be observed that God entered into successive covenants with the Jewish people even though it was destined that the people would fail and break the laws. Why?

When I finally had gone through various spiritual avenues and felt the urge to pick up the bible again, the following quote came to mind:
When I was sixteen, my father was the most ignorant man in the world. By the time I reached 21, I was surprised at how much he had learned in five years.

It was letting go of trying to figure it all out that led to a profound shift in understanding.

This time I found my reading of the bible described humanity as a unified entity, each of us part of a greater whole and far more connected than it might seem from a worldly standpoint - God is raising a child. Reward and punishment, discipline and praise.

From that I came to see the triune God as we are - collectively one, just as collections of neurons function as parts of one mind.

When exploring the bible, the details are important for historicity. Egyptian chronology is undergoing upheaval due to inconsistencies in traditional dating compared with timelines in other regions of the world - see Donovan Courville and David Rohl. Should those revisions bear scrutiny and find acceptance, biblical accuracy will be profoundly vindicated.

Regardless of the details, the story is far more important. It's rare that we ask people to verify their life story in conversation - we're interested in getting to know one another. What makes a person think the way they do, what have they seen and done, what are their hopes and dreams? The foundation of a relationship is based on that communication; establishing a give and take.

Putting aside family issues, assume your father raises you and at the age of 13 you decide you're going to leave home. Disregarding contemporary legal issues for the sake of argument, consider that your father allows you to leave. He has taught you as much as he could, given you as much knowledge as could be crammed into a young man's head. As you attempt to make your way in the world, you can choose to follow your father's teaching or try your own ways.

Experience is arguably the greatest educator. A youth trying everything but a proven successful method will, more often than not, eventually realize the optimal path was the one from the voice of experience. What happens then? Does the now experienced youth return to his father with new wisdom and make amends, or does he simply continue on his way and disregard family?

Assume God is real. He has a fatherly role, and keeps earth safe from destruction catastrophic enough to wipe out all of mankind. Similar to a game designer, he attends to every detail of the world - every character, every creature, every stone and all of the algorithms running the show; He lines up the living dominoes and sets them cascading on their way. He creates a human and esteems man as his own child. This human is given a choice between temptation and obedience. Man chooses temptation and is sent packing, not as unjustly cruel punishment but to become experienced in understanding.

Now what happens when man has gained wisdom and understanding? Does he acknowledge that not all in this world is knowable or falsifiable, or ignore family and wander the world looking for what he already has? The communication and relationship are what the bible is getting across. I would argue that the greatest lesson is not explicitly in the book: it comes from the experience of living as described in it.

This is not to scream "repent and believe" but to describe the message in the noise; your belief is your choice. In my view, there is far more to the bible than laws about behaviors and sage wisdom. The parts combine to make something greater than the whole. Not to mention that so many stories from Genesis onward point to Jesus, how his life and ministry were to unfold, especially Isaiah 53.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
February 09, 2017, 07:56:23 PM
Someone has made a point to me in private messages that claims that religion is any philosophy that one chooses to apply to their life. Afaics, that is evasive, because I would still differentiate that definition of religion from a philosophy of life that involves an unfalsiable God, so I would still need a term to describe the latter. Also that person has claimed to me that no philosophy of life can be falsified concretely as they claim any metrics are a moving target that can't be absolutely compared (specifically claimed that we can only "observe transient temporal congruence and extrapolate").

If the person who wrote that wants to claim public ownership of the comments, they are welcome to. Otherwise, since I have unilaterally decided to respond publicly (because I don't like if my significant efforts at intellectual interaction are not open sourced), I will not provide the person's identity.

My retort is that cultural evolutionary strategy can most definitely be statistically compared over long-enough time frames, for attributes such as fertility, wealth accumulation, average IQ, etc.. God can't be falsified.

My problem with the God religion is it sent me down a path of trying to follow some rules which I did not understand the goal, other than to serve some nebulous God and "love". And therefor my mind and competitive motivation was not (fully) engaged. My mind was sent off on tangents of trying to find superstitious correlations such as the puzzle in the Bible about the Abomination of the Desolation and its relationship to the possible year of the return of Jesus. And thus the period in which I tried to embrace Christianity from roughly 2006 to 2012 or so, was the most destructive period of my life where I made the absolute worst possible decisions, was very unproductive in my career, and destroyed my life. So yeah, I pretty much hate the God religion. I prefer to use my intellect.

Rebuttals and discussion is welcome. Let's try to be respectful to all sides.

Also I'm still contemplating the discussion ongoing with miscreanity and I admit I don't have it all holistically worked out in my mind. So I am still learning and so I am not speaking in absolutes and remain open minded.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 09, 2017, 02:17:57 AM
Religions typically have many silly rules which do not clearly establish their relevance to the goal of maximizing cultural evolutionary strategy. Judaism for example has 100s of rules in the Torah. Christianity for example tells us to never have sex without marriage, but doesn't explain clearly that the reason for this is because promoting a women's hypergamy is so destructive to a successful cultural evolutationary strategy. IMO, if the Bible was more direct to the point of relating rules to cultural evolutionary strategy and loose the superstition then it would make a lot more sense to smart, strong men.

In general, can complex concepts be explained properly to a child? What framework needs to be in place for a child to get from being able to speak to understanding predicate calculus?

Looking at it from a superorganism view, the collective human awareness may not have been able to process the ideas presented at that time without being significantly simplified until they became part of the culture - a maturation process on a collective scale. For a rigid enough mindset, studying geometry can elicit an anger response in the absence of an incentive to enforce patience and persistence. I suspect the teachings of Jesus at the time might not have been so different; just imagine explaining relativity to common people from the 19th century vs. people today.

On the other side, those genuinely following have effectively scraped away layers of cultural and social toxicity to see that their own principled actions encourage and incentivize others to do the same. This highlights the strength of the individual as an integral part of a whole.

And afaics, we don't need an unfalsifiable God for that.

Agreed - Matthew 7:11. Do you agree that there is a small percentage of a population that can do this without reverting to the appeal of more immediate self-gratification in various forms? If so, a consistent focal point seems necessary to persist beyond human lifetimes and memories for those prone to reverting. History has proven that human leaders could not have been relied upon for consistency.

I'd prefer to ridicule or laugh at those doing wrong (or even be silent) while utterly obliterating them in the competitive race of cultural evolutionary strategy, not because I wanted to be vindictive but because I've found that the weak can eat me up and devour me (waste my time, etc). Strong men shouldn't need to make any blahblahblah, as their actions (e.g. proliferating their offspring of strong men) will make it so. Religion is weak because it requires a lot of blahblahblah to weak people who will never be entirely on board. A few words are enough for those who are truly trying to improve, as they are motivated to figure out what those words mean.

Nevertheless religion may be entirely necessary because the world will probably always have many more weak people than strong. Jesus said he spent his time with the weak, because that was were the low hanging fruit was where the most good work could be done. Nevertheless, I think still that finding the potential gems in the haystack of the weak will be more efficient with fewer words.

As you say, the weak are capable of overwhelming the strong due to sheer numbers. Didn't you admit your own past weakness? Is it possible that another may have concluded that you were beating your head against the wall and would never be entirely on board? Would that have been justification to dismiss you?

I was not motivated because I was not aware that anything was wrong. When I started to notice things were amiss I did become motivated, and so far have not become discouraged by what seems like a never-ending effort. I'm sure some had considered me a lost cause.

The point is that the weak became strong. Is it better to laugh and ridicule or to let actions speak and offer a few words as needed? Isn't the latter better for everyone? You're less stressed and the weak see a good example, even if they don't realize initially.

I've found that helping people too much usually destroys them. I believe in rescuing (even weak) people in moments of extreme distress where they could not possibly recover with their own effort alone. But I don't believe in helping weak people who habitually put themselves in extreme distress nearly all of the time, i.e. clearly not even trying to improve. In my view it is acceptable to help those who have an infrequent recurrent extreme distress if they are genuinely trying to figure it out.

Absolutely - let fools run into brick walls until they're ready to listen. Just don't stand in front of the brick wall when a herd of fools is running.

This universe, existence, what-have-you is to me a playpen of sorts. I see it as a safe place both to protect us while we collectively grow as spiritual beings, as well as to protect whatever is beyond this universe from us. Yes, from us - we have the potential for immense power, both creative and destructive. We probably don't realize anywhere near the extent of what we can do as gods - Psalm 82:6

My perspective is that humanity collectively forms a unified organism that transcends what we understand individually. Whether what we arrive at is due to an emergent property or remains external is something I don't know, but all of the changes throughout history leave subtle clues in the same direction. The primary point of import is that we have to progress through the stages of growth together and at differing rates.

I have been pondering the thought of what would a culture of strong men do with weak offspring. Would they outcast them from the group?

Excellent topic. I would wager a guess that it might be along the lines of Spartan agoge, although some of the elements would be anachronistic.

I have thought that nature is stochastic thus even weak men are necessarily for resilience, i.e. Taleb's anti-fragility.

Thus we will always have the bell curve and I do think any strong men have to find a way to co-exist with weak mean, even if it is a contentious interaction.

Yes, a monoculture is prone to catastrophic failure; group-think can miss the most obvious of warnings.

I think that too much emphasis is being placed on weak aspects and not enough on indications of strength. Encouraging a latent strength allows for specialization to flourish, which in itself would be weakness without a social fabric to support interdependence in an appropriately structured manner. What that structure is depends upon the participants, and being part of the fabric builds confidence in the individual toward the structure (so long as it's in a healthy state, of course).

I am resigned to that when I die, I cease to exist except for my legacy. I do not feel any urge to know what is unfalsifiable.

Fair enough. I've had that perspective, so I'll simply share what changed mine.

If we are alone in the universe, it sure seems like an awful waste of space.

It's stunning to consider how precarious humanity's existence is on earth. A myriad of known ways to be wiped out and all our legacies snuffed like so many candles.

Finally, Pascal's Wager tilted me off the fence. What began as a conscious choice has become something far more surreal than I expected.

My gruff verbiage in that case is an attempt to be brutally frank. I think to be strong requires significant frankness about the characterization of weakness. Also I wanted to have the maximum impact while being succinct.

Also it is offensive, preemptive, pre-reaction to way Marxists and others who don't understand or agree with damned facts, tend to ridicule us when we try to use milder and calmer language to express these damned facts.

Yell at the ocean all you want and the waves will continue washing away your footsteps.

On forums, you've been looking for those who can grasp the architecture in detail or discuss controversial topics rationally. Take a step back after putting your work out there and let those with interest converse respectfully; those that can't will simply have to follow the thread or fade away. Hostility is mere noise, and reacting to it in kind simply adds more noise. Try giving yourself one paragraph in which to respond to antagonism.

Besides, inducing a stress reaction with antagonizing language tends to increase resistance toward getting an idea across.

The greatest insult.

It reflects that at this point we are in a war, and we are losing. We had better get our act in gear with actions. And not JAD's preference for a Trump dictator, because that isn't a viable solution. The solution must be decentralized and it must be an ideological shift in the thinking and actions of strong men. And to maintain that culture with male offspring, I think we require exposing the offspring to harsh realities of life, because words alone are not enough. And thus gruff verbiage may also need to be part of the mix of the education of male offspring.

Yes, there is no substitute for experience.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
February 09, 2017, 02:04:54 AM
miscreanity this was one of the most articulate and well written posts I have read on this forum. Thanks

It can take a well-reasoned and provocative discourse to be worth replying to, so thank you and iamnotback.

As an aside, Fear & Loathing was one of only two books I've ever laughed out load about while reading.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 08, 2017, 08:47:40 PM
Hunter S. Thompson on the Meaning of Life
http://www.theplaidzebra.com/22-year-old-hunter-s-thompson-tells-meaning-life/
Quote
When Hunter S. Thompson was 22 years old, he was contacted by a friend looking for advice on the meaning of life. His response was bizarrely profound, especially for his age, packing the punch of a heavyweight philosopher or seasoned-author... This letter was written April 1958:


April 22, 1958
57 Perry Street
New York City

Dear Hume
,

You ask advice: ah, what a very human and very dangerous thing to do! For to give advice to a man who asks what to do with his life implies something very close to egomania. To presume to point a man to the right and ultimate goal — to point with a trembling finger in the RIGHT direction is something only a fool would take upon himself.

I am not a fool, but I respect your sincerity in asking my advice. I ask you though, in listening to what I say, to remember that all advice can only be a product of the man who gives it. What is truth to one may be disaster to another. I do not see life through your eyes, nor you through mine. If I were to attempt to give you specific advice, it would be too much like the blind leading the blind.

“To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether ’tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles … ” (Shakespeare)

And indeed, that IS the question: whether to float with the tide, or to swim for a goal. It is a choice we must all make consciously or unconsciously at one time in our lives. So few people understand this! Think of any decision you’ve ever made which had a bearing on your future: I may be wrong, but I don’t see how it could have been anything but a choice however indirect — between the two things I’ve mentioned: the floating or the swimming.

But why not float if you have no goal? That is another question. It is unquestionably better to enjoy the floating than to swim in uncertainty. So how does a man find a goal? Not a castle in the stars, but a real and tangible thing. How can a man be sure he’s not after the “big rock candy mountain,” the enticing sugar-candy goal that has little taste and no substance?

The answer — and, in a sense, the tragedy of life — is that we seek to understand the goal and not the man. We set up a goal which demands of us certain things: and we do these things. We adjust to the demands of a concept which CANNOT be valid. When you were young, let us say that you wanted to be a fireman. I feel reasonably safe in saying that you no longer want to be a fireman. Why? Because your perspective has changed. It’s not the fireman who has changed, but you. Every man is the sum total of his reactions to experience. As your experiences differ and multiply, you become a different man, and hence your perspective changes. This goes on and on. Every reaction is a learning process; every significant experience alters your perspective.

So it would seem foolish, would it not, to adjust our lives to the demands of a goal we see from a different angle every day? How could we ever hope to accomplish anything other than galloping neurosis?

The answer, then, must not deal with goals at all, or not with tangible goals, anyway. It would take reams of paper to develop this subject to fulfillment. God only knows how many books have been written on “the meaning of man” and that sort of thing, and god only knows how many people have pondered the subject. (I use the term “God only knows” purely as an expression.) There’s very little sense in my trying to give it up to you in the proverbial nutshell, because I’m the first to admit my absolute lack of qualifications for reducing the meaning of life to one or two paragraphs.

I’m going to steer clear of the word “existentialism,” but you might keep it in mind as a key of sorts. You might also try something called “Being and Nothingness” by Jean-Paul Sartre, and another little thing called “Existentialism: From Dostoyevsky to Sartre.” These are merely suggestions. If you’re genuinely satisfied with what you are and what you’re doing, then give those books a wide berth. (Let sleeping dogs lie.) But back to the answer. As I said, to put our faith in tangible goals would seem to be, at best, unwise. So we do not strive to be firemen, we do not strive to be bankers, nor policemen, nor doctors. WE STRIVE TO BE OURSELVES.

But don’t misunderstand me. I don’t mean that we can’t BE firemen, bankers, or doctors — but that we must make the goal conform to the individual, rather than make the individual conform to the goal. In every man, heredity and environment have combined to produce a creature of certain abilities and desires — including a deeply ingrained need to function in such a way that his life will be MEANINGFUL. A man has to BE something; he has to matter.

As I see it then, the formula runs something like this: a man must choose a path which will let his ABILITIES function at maximum efficiency toward the gratification of his DESIRES. In doing this, he is fulfilling a need (giving himself identity by functioning in a set pattern toward a set goal), he avoids frustrating his potential (choosing a path which puts no limit on his self-development), and he avoids the terror of seeing his goal wilt or lose its charm as he draws closer to it (rather than bending himself to meet the demands of that which he seeks, he has bent his goal to conform to his own abilities and desires).

In short, he has not dedicated his life to reaching a pre-defined goal, but he has rather chosen a way of life he KNOWS he will enjoy. The goal is absolutely secondary: it is the functioning toward the goal which is important. And it seems almost ridiculous to say that a man MUST function in a pattern of his own choosing; for to let another man define your own goals is to give up one of the most meaningful aspects of life — the definitive act of will which makes a man an individual.

Let’s assume that you think you have a choice of eight paths to follow (all pre-defined paths, of course). And let’s assume that you can’t see any real purpose in any of the eight. THEN — and here is the essence of all I’ve said — you MUST FIND A NINTH PATH.

Naturally, it isn’t as easy as it sounds. You’ve lived a relatively narrow life, a vertical rather than a horizontal existence. So it isn’t any too difficult to understand why you seem to feel the way you do. But a man who procrastinates in his CHOOSING will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.

So if you now number yourself among the disenchanted, then you have no choice but to accept things as they are, or to seriously seek something else. But beware of looking for goals: look for a way of life. Decide how you want to live and then see what you can do to make a living WITHIN that way of life. But you say, “I don’t know where to look; I don’t know what to look for.”

And there’s the crux. Is it worth giving up what I have to look for something better? I don’t know — is it? Who can make that decision but you? But even by DECIDING TO LOOK, you go a long way toward making the choice.

If I don’t call this to a halt, I’m going to find myself writing a book. I hope it’s not as confusing as it looks at first glance. Keep in mind, of course, that this is MY WAY of looking at things. I happen to think that it’s pretty generally applicable, but you may not. Each of us has to create our own credo — this merely happens to be mine.

If any part of it doesn’t seem to make sense, by all means call it to my attention. I’m not trying to send you out “on the road” in search of Valhalla, but merely pointing out that it is not necessary to accept the choices handed down to you by life as you know it. There is more to it than that — no one HAS to do something he doesn’t want to do for the rest of his life. But then again, if that’s what you wind up doing, by all means convince yourself that you HAD to do it. You’ll have lots of company.

And that’s it for now. Until I hear from you again, I remain,

your friend,
Hunter

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1001
February 08, 2017, 04:57:27 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4204256/Asylum-seeker-arrested-abusing-18-women-train.html?

Do European women enjoy being fondled by their invaders? Only 2 came forward to report their pussies being grabbed in broad daylight, while the German males watched.
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