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Topic: [DEAD] DeepBit.net PPS+Prop,instant payouts, we pay for INVALID BLOCKS too - page 266. (Read 1601343 times)

legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
Wait, does somebody seriously think Tycho is going to start double spending? I grant you that he might attempt it, in some parallel universe, but that would be the end of Tycho. So I think it's very unlikely.

Unlikely or not, I agree that we need to find a solution to this issue.
Obviously, without hurting Tycho's business.  
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
My prediction is that if his pool gets close to, or more important exceeds the 50% mark that there will be a sell off of bitcoins and a steep drop in price.  Tycho, do not let this happen.

That is not going to happen if network is not compromised.



People may sell their bitcoins just to avoid the risk.  You cannot avoid the human emotional factor in shy market.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Wait, does somebody seriously think Tycho is going to start double spending? I grant you that he might attempt it, in some parallel universe, but that would be the end of Tycho. So I think it's very unlikely.
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
My prediction is that if his pool gets close to, or more important exceeds the 50% mark that there will be a sell off of bitcoins and a steep drop in price.  Tycho, do not let this happen.

That is not going to happen if network is not compromised.

member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
The fact is, that you [or your pool] is [especially with slush working with you should that be the case] make prime candidates for destroying the the bitcoin economy.   Personally, I would like you to close the pool to new members.
I can't see how it can be bad for bitcoin economy. Moreover, it would be very good to see how bitcoin network will instantly heal itself in case of something.

About closing registration - i'm not going to do something that is bad for my clients. Closing the registration is like trying to hide the problem, not fix it.

And if you are going to be directly working with slush, then I suggest that the combination of the two pools not be allowed to exceed the 50% mark.
I believe in self-regulation and free market.

I am sorry, but I believe you addressed every point with the worst possible response.  May each reader decide for themselves.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
My prediction is that if his pool gets close to, or more important exceeds the 50% mark that there will be a sell off of bitcoins and a steep drop in price.  Tycho, do not let this happen.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
The fact is, that you [or your pool] is [especially with slush working with you should that be the case] make prime candidates for destroying the the bitcoin economy.   Personally, I would like you to close the pool to new members.
I can't see how it can be bad for bitcoin economy. Moreover, it would be very good to see how bitcoin network will instantly heal itself in case of something.

About closing registration - i'm not going to do something that is bad for my clients. Closing the registration is like trying to hide the problem, not fix it.

And if you are going to be directly working with slush, then I suggest that the combination of the two pools not be allowed to exceed the 50% mark.
I believe in self-regulation and free market.
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
Tycho has done a great work on his pool reliability, not a small task.

Any solution based on limiting or auto-limiting his pool power, has to take into account
that he also deserves a just retribution for all the work done.

I suggest that he may license his pool software to a trusted community member,
who could be interested in running another instance of the pool with similar dedication
and reliability.

Collussion between them to attack the network will be very improbable.




 
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
It's mangling email adddresses with plus addressing
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Slush has barely kept up before this issue and certainly has not shown any interest in making the pool better.  He barely keeps it status quo [until today when it looks as if it died outright].  I hope that I am wrong, but it appears as if he just decided to check out.  While I like to trust, I am still a cynic and don't know that stepping in to work with another pool to regain your competition really allays the fears that people have about the 50% attack.  The fact is, that you [or your pool] is [especially with slush working with you should that be the case] make prime candidates for destroying the the bitcoin economy.   Personally, I would like you to close the pool to new members.  Do as BTCMine suggested and check all accounts.  And, do whatever it takes to make sure that your pool does not approach, little enough exceed the 50% point.  And if you are going to be directly working with slush, then I suggest that the combination of the two pools not be allowed to exceed the 50% mark.

I know this is asking a lot, but we all know that you are in it for the money and a healthy dose of cynicism is in order to keep bitcoin sound.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
You'd mentioned earlier in this thread that you had no plans to exceed that 50% mark...but that may now be happening regardless. My question is whether or not we would be protected (as a pool) from actually executing the >50% attack on the network ourselves by way of some sort of subversion.
Looks like I was wrong about 50%, I thought it was impossible to reach due to pools competition.

I'm open to your proposals on handling such situation (even though I still don't think we can reach it permanently), so we could be more transparent to miners. I'm sure that there IS a solution; the fact of being >50% doesn't means that something bad will happen.

One of the things I can do right now - I'm going to contact slush and get his phone number, so we could notify each other about pool problems.

To mitigate the possible problems deepbit currently runs on servers located in different jurisdictions and we (deepbit admins) reside in other two different jurisdictions, so pool is relatively protected.

Also I want to remind you something from https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Attacks#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

Quote
The attacker can't:

  • Reverse other people's transactions
  • Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
  • Change the number of coins generated per block
  • Create coins out of thin air
  • Send coins that never belonged to him
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I do have a question for you, Tycho. It seems like Deepbit is going to hit a 50% mark at some point in the extremely near future at the current rate of growth I've been seeing today. You'd mentioned earlier in this thread that you had no plans to exceed that 50% mark...but that may now be happening regardless. My question is whether or not we would be protected (as a pool) from actually executing the >50% attack on the network ourselves by way of some sort of subversion. I'm not horribly tech savvy (as evidenced by my posts around here, I'm sure), but I do see this as a huge potential issue if steps haven't been made to mitigate that sort of risk. I know lots of people around here have brought this up in different ways, but I just wanted to be direct about it.

Other than that one little concern, I've been having a great run in your pool all week. Thanks for having me along. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
Is there a limit on workers quantity limit, 20 or so ?
I need more.

20 GPUs? Time to go solo Tongue

For a reason I don´t really understand, I have rigs which discovered 10x more blocks than others with similar power,
in a similar amount of time. So, I like the no-variance style of the pools.

Ahh. But you've got enough power to start your own private pool Smiley

Yes, maybe, but I prefer to stay on what I do better. 
That is adding mining capacity as fast as possible.  Wink 
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Is there a limit on workers quantity limit, 20 or so ?
I need more.

20 GPUs? Time to go solo Tongue

For a reason I don´t really understand, I have rigs which discovered 10x more blocks than others with similar power,
in a similar amount of time. So, I like the no-variance style of the pools.

Ahh. But you've got enough power to start your own private pool Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
Is there a limit on workers quantity limit, 20 or so ?
I need more.

20 GPUs? Time to go solo Tongue

For a reason I don´t really understand, I have rigs which discovered 10x more blocks than others with similar power,
in a similar amount of time. So, I like the no-variance style of the pools.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Is there a limit on workers quantity limit, 20 or so ?
I need more.

20 GPUs? Time to go solo Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1099
Merit: 1000
Is there a limit on workers quantity limit, 20 or so ?
I need more.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Pool rate: 405 Gh/s GRATS
Wish I had that kind of preprocessing power.
Thanks again for all your hard work and dedication [Tycho].
Thanks :)
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
it would actually be 10 btc/day - 3% for pool fees.

Actually, it will be less than 3% due to insurance against invalid blocks and long polling.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Incase you didnt notice, I already accounted for the difficulty jump
So you: JJG and You Vladimir, Stop bashing everyone who wants to mine.

Agreed!  For selfish reasons, I would like to see fewer miners [at least high end miners] Smiley  That won't stop me from encouraging the hobby to people that want to do it.
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