luke-jr has agreed that putting this info up for miners is good
thanks for the input folks
Topic: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers? (Read 29712 times)
luke-jr has agreed that putting this info up for miners is good
thanks for the input folks
The fact is that the coinbase was designed so that (small) text could be embedded in it, and in fact the first coinbase ever (in the "Genesis" block) contains libertarian propaganda.
I think we should be tolerant to propaganda, it is free speech. The first block was generated by Satoshi himself, so he could put there whatever he wanted. But mining pool is something people have share in, so I think it would be fair if they know what they are contributing to.
However, the sneaky including it in supposedly random data is underhanded and deplorable.
The fact is that the coinbase was designed so that (small) text could be embedded in it, and in fact the first coinbase ever (in the "Genesis" block) contains libertarian propaganda. Nor was it ever "sneaky", or in any way secret-- besides the obviousness of everyone having a copy, nobody trollish enough to actually have a problem with it would have probably ever noticed it if I didn't make it known (in public IRC channels, obviously long before this thread was posted). 
if half of what I have read in this topic as logs from Luke Jr are not falsified
Logs from #bitcoin and #bitcoin-dev are available here: http://bitcoinstats.com/
Logs from #eligius are available here: http://eligius.searchonirc.com/
You can use google to find the specific conversations you want to verify.
I would just like to make a short comment: I researched Elingus as a pool, realized it was related to a saint, and did not care overmuch. I chose other pools for other (non-topical) reasons. Had it been posted, anywhere, that the pool was injecting any religious message at all into the coinbase, I would have simply shrugged, and went to another pool without pause. However, the sneaky including it in supposedly random data is underhanded and deplorable.
Also, on a side note, as a businessperson, if half of what I have read in this topic as logs from Luke Jr are not falsified, I will politely refrain from ever doing any form of business with him.
On a totally personal and somewhat offtopic note, I find the sorts of intolerant views expressed by some (Love worse then murder? Wait, what?) to be abhorrent and, if I believed in any higher power, to be a sin against he/she/it/them.
I do not believe that this belongs in the coinbase, and should be pruned. Post-haste. In the interest of fairness, I am willing to concede that all non-random data should be pruned, although some of the rest is at least amusing.
Also, on a side note, as a businessperson, if half of what I have read in this topic as logs from Luke Jr are not falsified, I will politely refrain from ever doing any form of business with him.
On a totally personal and somewhat offtopic note, I find the sorts of intolerant views expressed by some (Love worse then murder? Wait, what?) to be abhorrent and, if I believed in any higher power, to be a sin against he/she/it/them.
I do not believe that this belongs in the coinbase, and should be pruned. Post-haste. In the interest of fairness, I am willing to concede that all non-random data should be pruned, although some of the rest is at least amusing.
Must be trolling, I can't believe Luke-Jr actually wrote those.
I'm afraid he did write exactly what I quoted. Does that really surprise you after reading some of the logs linked earlier in this thread? Honestly? (It's not any better in context either before you ask; the context was him justifying why his bigotry wasn't bigotry after someone complained about it.)How do we get rid of that f*cking shit??
We actually can't. Individual nodes could in theory be modified to prune it, but by doing so they'd damage the integrity of the entire Bitcoin network by rendering themselves unable to distribute a full and verifiable record of the block chain to other nodes. We're basically stuck with it being carried around by every single full Bitcoin node forevermore. Quote
my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately
Just spotted this conversation in #bitcoin yesterday afternoon:
Sigh.
Quote
17:53 < luke-jr> people should be hostile toward false religions and homosexuals, at least
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes
Sigh.
Must be trolling, I can't believe Luke-Jr actually wrote those.
Just spotted this conversation in #bitcoin yesterday afternoon:
Sigh.
Quote
17:53 < luke-jr> people should be hostile toward false religions and homosexuals, at least
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes
Sigh.
Nice.
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to. Maybe "I'm eating a big juicy hamburger" would offend some vegetarian miner somewhere, but chances are that person gets offended by a lot of things in life and perhaps even seeks out things to be 'offended' about. As long as there is nothing illegal or really nasty (e.g. advocating hatred/violence against some group of people) then I could give a rat's ass what's in there.
http://pident.artefact2.com/block/000000000000052f8e747189e44e60212976b830f49cf6aedd3feec50571a566 How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?!
That one is actual spam, and can never be deleted/pruned. (as opposed to my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately)OP is just saying that LukeJr must tell miners that Eligius put prayers in the blockchain
So...nothing to do with that
No, OP is just trolling. Miners don't do anything with the prayers. As one person put it, this is like complaining that a burger restaurant prints Bible verses on its sandwich wrappers. So...nothing to do with that
How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?! I consider this VERY nasty, personally offensive and advocating hatred not just against him but (presumably) all members of the catholic church, as this seems to be the root cause for this accusation.
Maybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.
OP is just saying that LukeJr must tell miners that Eligius put prayers in the blockchainMaybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.
So...nothing to do with that
How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?! I consider this VERY nasty, personally offensive and advocating hatred not just against him but (presumably) all members of the catholic church, as this seems to be the root cause for this accusation.
Maybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.
Maybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to. Maybe "I'm eating a big juicy hamburger" would offend some vegetarian miner somewhere, but chances are that person gets offended by a lot of things in life and perhaps even seeks out things to be 'offended' about. As long as there is nothing illegal or really nasty (e.g. advocating hatred/violence against some group of people) then I could give a rat's ass what's in there.
but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread?
My thoughts and subsequent actions would have been the same.
To be very clear If anything that can offend anyone is put in blockheaders I would object it doesnt even have to be a prayer.
My original post was about whether a poolop had informed his miners of what he was doing (or keeping stuff secret) I never did get a yes or no answer, but from other peoples replies I can see it wasn't announced in a way that informed all miners on that pool and gave them a choice to participate or not.
My point (belief) that anyone is free to practice the religion of their choice seems to have been missed.
i thought this thread had been deleted, missed so much of the fun..... bit rude to move it without telling OP imo, but hey thats just my opinion...
Quote
Great, that you are Catholic, but I would recommend studying your religion a bit more-- especially the Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Pius IX, and the dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus ("Outside the Church there is no salvation").
Really? I'd suggest YOU study your religion a bit more, perhaps you'd realize how the fuck to spell GENESIS correctly.
Quote
Nevermind the fact that it was actually started with political propaganda in the Genesys block by Satoshi himself, setting a clear and undeniable precedent.
but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread?
My thoughts and subsequent actions would have been the same.
Indeed... tin foil hat time... what did we miss? You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist? Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet.Luke-Jr, Please tread very carefully with this one... Security thru obscurity is NO security at all.... if there is no defense against this i sure hope the whole bitcoin dev teams knows about this and are working on it as we speak... can you comment on that? Its really not good form to keep these things private. Who does it affect? Users? Miners? Pool Operators? Everyone? Some disclosure needs to be done so that people can protect themselves depending on what type of vulnerability we are talking about.
I really dont think this should be kept completely quiet. SOME information needs to be disclosed!
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