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Topic: DiceBitco.in - New Thread to Discuss - page 8. (Read 20679 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
September 11, 2014, 01:37:29 PM
@Dooglus I'm working on an article detailing the downfall of DiceBitco.in, and am prefacing it with a brief history of the "invest" option growing big with Just-Dice, so I will probably be reaching out to you in PM later on confirming some JD numbers and the mathematical probability that "mateo" actually had his winning streak without having access to server seeds. Might get a quote from you and a couple other people as well. Cool?

I'm going to try and finish the story today, though will still have to design some HTML/CSS for the "News" section I'm going to create, so it might be a day or two still before it is published. I usually stay pretty busy with work/random side projects.

The problem with accurately saying just how unlikely Mateo's run was is that we don't have much information on him. We don't know how many bets he made, what stake he was using, etc.

All we know for sure is that investors suffered roughly 84% losses around the time he was playing.

We could run a simulation where we bet at 49.5% to win 0.5% of the house bankroll, repeating until either the house bankroll grows or shrinks by 84%, and seeing how often the house ends up down instead of up. That way we get an upper bound on how likely Mateo's run was to have been legit (since betting to win 0.5% each time is the optimal strategy assuming you're restricted to play at 49.5% and also assuming you're not cheating!)

Here's code for such a simulation:

Code:
#!/usr/bin/env python

import random, string, sys

trials = string.atoi(sys.argv[1])

def mateo_wins():
    bank = 100.0

    while True:
        if random.random() < 0.495:
            bank *= 0.995
            if bank > 184:
                return 0
        else:
            bank *= 1.005
            if bank < 16:
                return 1

wins = 0
c = trials
while c:
    wins += mateo_wins()
    c -= 1

print wins, "out of", trials

It's slow (sometimes it's an epic struggle between bank and Mateo, and so takes a long time to run), but here are some early results:

$ ./mateo.py 100
0 out of 100
$ ./mateo.py 1000
9 out of 1000
$ ./mateo.py 5000
12 out of 5000
$ ./mateo.py 10000
29 out of 10000
$

Winning 9 times out of 1000 and 12 out of 5000 shows that the variance is high.

9 out of 1000 is 0.9%.
12 out of 5000 is 0.25%.
29 out of 10000 is 0.29%.

So I guess the chance of Mateo doing what he did is around 1 in 500.

Note that I just threw the above code together - it may contain errors - and I made some assumptions which are plainly untrue (he wasn't max-betting every time).

Please feel free to point out any errors.

sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 254
September 11, 2014, 01:02:41 PM
so maybe it's incompetence rather than malice, as in the previous PRC incident.

If i had to choose between incompetence vs malice, i'd choose incompetence.  Of course none of these are desirable outcomes. but lesser of 2 evils? 

And seems like Dean will have it sorted out shortly or has done so already.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 530
$5 24k Gold FREE 4 sign-up! Mene.com/invite/h5ZRRP
September 11, 2014, 12:49:53 PM
Haven't been active for a few weeks, you sure do miss alot in bitcoin land by not being here constantly...

19 pages to go through, this should be fun, better make some coffee

Start here to follow along as the shit hits the fan.

Our own little reporter how sweet

Sure. Yes, I am going to write a story exposing this scam operation, and hopefully it saves future investors/gamblers from getting robbed by the same people. It is going to be a mostly unbiased article, but the facts speak for themselves.
legendary
Activity: 1578
Merit: 1000
May the coin be with you..
September 11, 2014, 12:38:34 PM
Haven't been active for a few weeks, you sure do miss alot in bitcoin land by not being here constantly...

19 pages to go through, this should be fun, better make some coffee
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 530
$5 24k Gold FREE 4 sign-up! Mene.com/invite/h5ZRRP
September 11, 2014, 12:28:33 PM
@Dooglus I'm working on an article detailing the downfall of DiceBitco.in, and am prefacing it with a brief history of the "invest" option growing big with Just-Dice, so I will probably be reaching out to you in PM later on confirming some JD numbers and the mathematical probability that "mateo" actually had his winning streak without having access to server seeds. Might get a quote from you and a couple other people as well. Cool?

I'm going to try and finish the story today, though will still have to design some HTML/CSS for the "News" section I'm going to create, so it might be a day or two still before it is published. I usually stay pretty busy with work/random side projects.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
September 11, 2014, 11:48:52 AM
Ok Guys After going after DB now I have something on PRC. The site is run by a good guy Dean, however it has had bugs from day one.
First the sjess case and now I figured this.
Just Like DB I had an instance of Bets skipped at PRC.
 Too Bad it happens with me only.

I tried negotiating with Dean but he didn't agree or care, So Here it is :
 THe video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ewu84DChS0

Dean might give excuses for this happening, but point is, it might have happened in the past and might have caused people to lose, and there is no way to check . Sorry but had to post this. Good Luck Happy Gambling.



EDIT: I also tried negotiating with Dean for 1 BTC but never happened. Smiley

Confirmed there are a bunch of nonces missing when comparing your "my bets" with the roll verifier output:



Dean claims these rolls were missed out of "my bets" due to a caching issue - so maybe it's incompetence rather than malice, as in the previous PRC incident.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
September 11, 2014, 11:13:41 AM
I watched the rigged betting go down on monday morning and the bankroll was small enough that the site operators were definitely over half the bankroll.  ruru was probably around 100 then maybe another 25-50 btc from other users. Even if the tiny chance the bets were legit they were betting against themself. If they lost bets they would recieve the coins in their investment account, withdraw and try again. When you bet against yourself you can't lose.

This doesn't really make any sense. Why wouldn't you just divest your own coins first? When you bet against yourself you can't lose but you also can't win.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
September 11, 2014, 10:40:31 AM
I watched the rigged betting go down on monday morning and the bankroll was small enough that the site operators were definitely over half the bankroll.  ruru was probably around 100 then maybe another 25-50 btc from other users. Even if the tiny chance the bets were legit they were betting against themself. If they lost bets they would recieve the coins in their investment account, withdraw and try again. When you bet against yourself you can't lose.
legendary
Activity: 3416
Merit: 1912
The Concierge of Crypto
September 11, 2014, 10:24:59 AM
With funds from Ruru and his watch collection.

Ruru invested here too? Ok, I guess I don't feel so bad. But losing coins is relative. That's like a whole bunch of sleepless nights doing posts, or a whole bunch of escrow contracts. Good thing I don't touch donation money except to buy food.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I lost the liqour money boys...
September 11, 2014, 08:50:21 AM
Where are manl and gerry?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
September 11, 2014, 08:06:23 AM
Ok Guys After going after DB now I have something on PRC. The site is run by a good guy Dean, however it has had bugs from day one.
First the sjess case and now I figured this.
Just Like DB I had an instance of Bets skipped at PRC.
 Too Bad it happens with me only.

I tried negotiating with Dean but he didn't agree or care, So Here it is :
 THe video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ewu84DChS0

Dean might give excuses for this happening, but point is, it might have happened in the past and might have caused people to lose, and there is no way to check . Sorry but had to post this. Good Luck Happy Gambling.



EDIT: I also tried negotiating with Dean for 1 BTC but never happened. Smiley

Finnile is posting misinformation here. I guess he never got the response or the ransom he wanted by posting in the official PRC thread.
You can get all the details here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8775135
newbie
Activity: 53
Merit: 0
September 11, 2014, 08:05:38 AM
Quote
13:45: Dean Nolan when you bet, your bets get cached on server so that when you refresh page it doesnt need to do a db call....
13:45: zolace u neeed to get another coder to help u find it
13:45: finnile @zolace say sorry really?
13:45: finnile what for?
13:46: zolace for causing distress
13:46: Dean Nolan now it seems like a couple of his did not get added to the cache so on next visit, a day later, it was not loaded into the my bets tab

So to me, it looks like the bets did show up when they were made (on the first day), but due to a db caching issue, didn't show up on the second day when the site was reloaded.  This is where the confusion has come from.

So there is a small display bug here (missing bets from the display from previous days), but no foul play.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
September 11, 2014, 08:02:36 AM
this is bull shit i checked all bets, nothing skipped. 
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
September 11, 2014, 07:47:16 AM
aaaaaand .... again. No way to verify all bets as the data will come from the author itself.

About these off blockchain casinos, nothing will prevent site ops of making up magical bankroll or running away with investors fund.

Gamblers: you need (to develop) a browser plug in to check bets in a automated process.  Any rational gambler would check the code himself.

"Alleged" scammers (=casinos) count on the fact that you can't (manually) check tons of data (you're not even able to collect).
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 104
September 11, 2014, 07:13:54 AM
Ok Guys After going after DB now I have something on PRC. The site is run by a good guy Dean, however it has had bugs from day one.
First the sjess case and now I figured this.
Just Like DB I had an instance of Bets skipped at PRC.
 Too Bad it happens with me only.

I tried negotiating with Dean but he didn't agree or care, So Here it is :
 THe video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ewu84DChS0

Dean might give excuses for this happening, but point is, it might have happened in the past and might have caused people to lose, and there is no way to check . Sorry but had to post this. Good Luck Happy Gambling.



EDIT: I also tried negotiating with Dean for 1 BTC but never happened. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 257
Trust No One
September 11, 2014, 07:08:44 AM
(...)
Nakowa also played at full Kelly while Matteo only at half Kelly, so it's much more improbable. As far as I remember Nakowa didn't win 85% of house bankroll like Matteo but it was only around 15%.
That Kelly troll shit has to end! .. it does NOT apply to a gambler gambling in a casino with a positive house edge!

You can turn it around as casino losing 85% of bankroll at 0.5% Kelly while JD lost "only" 15% of bankroll at full Kelly (whatever player/players were playing ;-)
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 254
September 10, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
In the Copypasta response I got manl said he "Rolled Back" the admin so how do we know it wasn't tampered with before rigged bets were noticed. He doesn't check the code before he published his site to the web so maybe manl put some "malicious bug" in there hiding an evil bug out of plain sight maybe coded to seem like legit code.


The malicious code is plausibly deniable anyway I guarntee he's covered his track or edited history to look real. I'll wait for any official response from dicebitcoin but most likely he's long gone by now leaving his website on autopilot. I have no plans to go on TOR to "waste" him, it's only a few thousand dollars I'll survive.

Wow, first time i've seen him say anything about Mateo.  Legit user?  So they allowed the withdrawal?  Does anyone have a potential blockchain txn for Mateo's withdrawal?  If mateo is legit, hopefully he shows himself on this thread. :p



Somebody needs to do a graph similar to nakowa's like uvwvj posted above to show visually how close to impossible his profit was. He flat bet constantly, nakowa did NOT flat bet constantly. He flat bet a lot, but not constantly.


the best graph you're going to get is Joecker's graph above.  We simply do not have the required data to make anything more detailed.  Ask Manl/Gerry for the data.  LOL
full member
Activity: 128
Merit: 100
September 10, 2014, 05:34:08 PM
What is the status of signature payouts?
When do we get the money?
Is there theard for this?

Everyone has been paid. You can remove the signature now.

yes paid after losing 5/6 of my investment - Godamn the soul of those responsible to Hell forever.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
I lost the liqour money boys...
September 10, 2014, 04:43:04 PM
I was another late withdrawing investor losing about 7BTC. I am keen to speak with others about what they plan to do next, if anything. Quickly reviewing this thread it seems the following lost a significant percentage of their investment due to Mateo, I'm sure there are many more.

jh7phone -8.5 BTC
Qconnet07 (me) -7 BTC
Martijnvdc -0.251 BTC
Dabs -1.14 BTC
nicolaennio -0.09 BTC


Would other ex-investors be interested in meeting in an IRC room/somewhere else to discuss further at some point soon? I am on GMT.

I feel that one clear voice from a collective will be more effective that individual support tickets, all of which are just going to ignored/deleted.

I find it highly suspect that Manl/Gerry won't release Mateo's betting data for audit and see this as good as an admission of guilt. Their lack of action to halt betting and quick processing of Mateo's withdraw, coupled with the coincidental 500BTC bankroll that suddenly appeared, all scream of foul play at the expense of investors.

Would others be interested in discussing our options further in private? Please let me know and we can agree a time and day.  
Contact user 1ruru on these forums. As I understand it, he lost more coins than you all combined. He intentionally invested because he thought it was an investor who tilted.

Somebody needs to do a graph similar to nakowa's like uvwvj posted above to show visually how close to impossible his profit was. He flat bet constantly, nakowa did NOT flat bet constantly. He flat bet a lot, but not constantly.

No messages from manl or gerry for days. This is entirely normal I'm sure.
member
Activity: 99
Merit: 10
September 10, 2014, 04:29:13 PM
I find it highly suspect that Manl/Gerry won't release Mateo's betting data for audit and see this as good as an admission of guilt.

Auditing Mateo's data would be pointless if the data is provided by the site itself. It needs to come from an independent source (which probably does not exist).
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