My bad meant current generation ASIC's
Current generation ASICs are like a 8086 (or lower), still LOTS of growth room in them!
Topic: Difficulty jumps 28% - page 5. (Read 11509 times)
Current generation ASICs are like a 8086 (or lower), still LOTS of growth room in them!
My bad meant current generation ASIC's
Wow we still talking about gpus considering asic's will be obsolete by 2014.
LOLWUT ?! Please explain your reasoning for this statement.
At this difficulty growth, all those guys paying over 4BTC/Ghs in the Auction section will never make back their investment.
First owner of Avalon and BFL equipment can still make some decent profit -- if their machine ships.
First owner of Avalon and BFL equipment can still make some decent profit -- if their machine ships.
I guess BFL is trying to ship jala's out now because soon no one will buy them.
Look at the projected difficulty and put it in a calculator and it just dropped from 17 dollars a day to 14.
Bitcoin does not look like its gonna stop climbing for a while. Here look
Wow we still talking about gpus considering asic's will be obsolete by 2014.
Why do you think ASICs will be obsolete in 2014?
Currently I don't see a technology that could replace them (of course newer ASICs that are built with denser structures will provide some more bang for the buck).
The next technology that could in theory make ASICs obsolete are quantum computers. But I don't see them around the corner, at least not models that could hash Bitcoin blocks.
Of course there will be many people who bought ASICs and realize that they will never get enough ROI.
Onkel Paul
Wow we still talking about gpus considering asic's will be obsolete by 2014.
Keep up with the pace, the storm has started and its going to get hell of allot worst
Keep up with the pace, the storm has started and its going to get hell of allot worst
I think the only way that Bitcoin will survive and remain democratic is to optionally allow miners to use scrypt as well as SHA256 with appropriate difficulty. Otherwise all mining will be done on ASICs by a handful of people and companies.
Offering the choice means that you can use either GPU's (with scrypt) which are commonly available or ASIC's (with SHA256) which are still limited to an elite few. This way the most people still have stake and the ASIC arms race doesn't assure the destruction democracy.
Offering the choice means that you can use either GPU's (with scrypt) which are commonly available or ASIC's (with SHA256) which are still limited to an elite few. This way the most people still have stake and the ASIC arms race doesn't assure the destruction democracy.
Bfl will be refusing all refunds soon as people finally wake up and realise it won't make money when they get it, and no resell value. Buy sell btc is all the average person will be able to do apart from alt coins
When the hype has arrived it's normally to late , only early adopters are winning and the ones selling into the hype.
So many people are going to get burnt with pre orders
When the hype has arrived it's normally to late , only early adopters are winning and the ones selling into the hype.
So many people are going to get burnt with pre orders
This is the "selling shovels in a gold rush" thing on steroids.
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
I absolutely agree with this. The lucky few who actually do have an ASIC now mine with it for a while, and then sell it for a tremendous profit (more than the machine will likely ever be able to mine) to maximize their profit.
If the masses can't get an ASICs device for close to the manufacturers cost plus a little profit instead of how much the machine can earn in Bitcoin, ASIC mining is losing game. I heard that ASICMiner pays ~$150 to manufacture a Blade, and sells them for over $6000!!!
Yes. I hope people do their homework and understand exponential growth, because that's what we're going to see for awhile. Starting today, a 1 GH ASIC miner will likely only produce about 3 BTC over its useful life. There's significant risk it will produce less. It boggles the mind how 13 GH blades are selling for 40+BTC and 65 GH miners are selling for 200BTC--there is very real risk that you won't break even, much less make significant profit.
This is the "selling shovels in a gold rush" thing on steroids.
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
I absolutely agree with this. The lucky few who actually do have an ASIC now mine with it for a while, and then sell it for a tremendous profit (more than the machine will likely ever be able to mine) to maximize their profit.
If the masses can't get an ASICs device for close to the manufacturers cost plus a little profit instead of how much the machine can earn in Bitcoin, ASIC mining is losing game. I heard that ASICMiner pays ~$150 to manufacture a Blade, and sells them for over $6000!!!
The best part is that, most consumers still don't have their hand on ASIC.
And won't have. Why should companies that invested millions in ASIC design sell their money-printing-machines instead of just using them to print money?
P.
Well that's me hanging up my mining gear - luckily I just broke even on my ATI card in 2 months so now it'll go back on ebay.
So I converted some electricity into bitcoins for free - try that with your ASIC's you suckers.
So I converted some electricity into bitcoins for free - try that with your ASIC's you suckers.
The good thing about gpu is that you can resell it or get your 10 gpus and make a big counter strike with friends and son haha. With asics you can...
i would say next diff increase is >50%
without asics bitcoins will be impossible to mine. wll who guessed that. lol.
litecoin diff will increase heavy too because there is no other place for gpus except ebay.
without asics bitcoins will be impossible to mine. wll who guessed that. lol.
litecoin diff will increase heavy too because there is no other place for gpus except ebay.
The ASIC price gouging continues.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-5xasicminer-erupter-blades-226676
Do your homework folks!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-5xasicminer-erupter-blades-226676
Do your homework folks!
if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
Onkel Paul
You're forgetting cash flow. The ASIC-CO's need to pay for chips, boards, production etc. So they sell in order to fund even more production. Or pre-order sales anyway. And if they're being devious they mine on the built pre-order kit until they are forced to deliver a few to keep the punters from getting too ansty.
[/TINFOILHAT=OFF] But I'm sure thats not the case with our current set of manufacturers. Pretty sure anyway ...
This is the "selling shovels in a gold rush" thing on steroids.
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
If you can sell ASICs for more than they ever produce during their lifetime, you make a better profit than if you let them mine for yourself.
Of course, letting them mine for a time while the difficulty is still low enough and only selling them later is a guarantee for even better profit.
And I am absolutely convinced that the ASIC sellers can calculate and know at what price they must sell to make a profit.
The shovel makers in the gold rush could at least plausibly claim that dealing with them would create a win-win situation, as they themselves could not deliver the amount of work needed to mine with their tools.
But in the ASIC mining case there is no win-win - if it is more profitable for the seller to sell the hardware than to mine with it, it is with certainty not profitable for the buyer to mine with it.
Onkel Paul
Yep, now looking into it, ASIC aren't going to be very profitable, only the people selling them are going to really profit.
That's a huge increase.
That's a huge increase.
GPU's wont become useless they will just farm alt coins and exchange for BTC, The BTC market is about to take a whole bunch of steroids. Pulling up a recliner for this firework show over the coming months.
I have GPU only. At present, I move most of GPU to LTC. The only one I have not moved is the broken one, which can only mine BTC but would die mining LTC.
I was told that the 50Gh/s machines currently will produce about 2 BTC per day.
At $120 per BTC, that is $240 per day.
If a 50 from BFL costs $2499, "ships today" (comment above), why would you never make your money back? You would have your money back in just 10 days. Wrong?
Maybe an ASIC isn't the same as the BFL 50Gh/s device and I'm getting confused.
-Burger-
At $120 per BTC, that is $240 per day.
If a 50 from BFL costs $2499, "ships today" (comment above), why would you never make your money back? You would have your money back in just 10 days. Wrong?
Maybe an ASIC isn't the same as the BFL 50Gh/s device and I'm getting confused.
-Burger-
Machine that you can't buy now, i.e. you have to pre-order with blind faith, can potentially make profit. But you have no certainty on when they will ship. BFL only shipped some small quanity of 5G/hs machine to customers that pre-ordered 1 years ago, and Avalon have missed their Batch 2 pre-order by close to 2 months now.
A 50G/hs machine may have a potential life time earning of 280 BTC, but each week delay is going to cost your 25+ BTC lost in revenue if the current difficulty growth trend continue. If you receive the machine only in the 10th week, you would not make any profit from the mining, and would be better off spending the money to buy bitcoin directly now.
On the other hand, Machines that you can buy now, such as ASICMIner's USB stick or Blade, are so overpriced that you will never make back your investment.
this is why pre-order asic is garbage, difficult will skyrocket before you get them, and you will end up paying more, of what they are worth
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