Topic: Dirty coins - page 4. (Read 5955 times)
Nothing is gonna happen, and if you are paranoid just use a mixer (hint, the one on my sig for example).
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!!
I'm not sure about the “right to refuse”. If you refuse to give service to someone, for example, because they're black, that's discrimination and a crime in certain jurisdictions (it should be everywhere).
Are you serious??
Can you imagine.....
excuse me sir, are you refusing to take my money/coins??, I will see you in jail sir because holy hell you not buying from me after you met me is down right illegal!!!
If I go to a shop and I want to buy something, and they refuse to take my money because my skin is black or my cash looks too 'dirty' to them I would definitely make a case of this. This is a crime where I live and in most places I know, for good reason. It's a slippery slope once merchants start to do this and discriminate coins based on the history linked to it. What if my coins are linked to something controversial like wikileaks or piratebay, or other things that governments or the people with big money don't like? Won't Bitcoin become the same then as VISA/Mastercard as they can just block me from using my coins in most places when my coins are linked to any of these things? No thanks. Messing with fungibility is messing with freedom, period.
I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
It would be just as easy to supplant bitcoin with a better coin. But that would be really bad for crypto as a whole so I think it's more likely that your suggestion would be implemented as a fork to the many forks already deployed.
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!!
I'm not sure about the “right to refuse”. If you refuse to give service to someone, for example, because they're black, that's discrimination and a crime in certain jurisdictions (it should be everywhere).
Are you serious??
Can you imagine.....
excuse me sir, are you refusing to take my money/coins??, I will see you in jail sir because holy hell you not buying from me after you met me is down right illegal!!!
Not in jail, but in court.
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!!
I'm not sure about the “right to refuse”. If you refuse to give service to someone, for example, because they're black, that's discrimination and a crime in certain jurisdictions (it should be everywhere).
Are you serious??
Can you imagine.....
excuse me sir, are you refusing to take my money/coins??, I will see you in jail sir because holy hell you not buying from me after you met me is down right illegal!!!
...
Bitcoin = Bitcoin = Bitcoin
For almost everyone. If somebody does not want "dirty coins", they have the option to not accept them. It's a free country (smile,,,).
* * *
I have read that getting "newly generated coins" from a miner (when they win a block) is desired by some. Anyone who really wants "clean coins" might be able to buy direct from an Eligius, GHash.IO, BTC Guild, etc.
OP! Let us know if you take that route! I would be curious to know how hard/easy it would be to buy "Brand New Coins" * from a miner!
* Also let us know if there would be any "numismatic value" to any mintages...
Bitcoin = Bitcoin = Bitcoin
For almost everyone. If somebody does not want "dirty coins", they have the option to not accept them. It's a free country (smile,,,).
* * *
I have read that getting "newly generated coins" from a miner (when they win a block) is desired by some. Anyone who really wants "clean coins" might be able to buy direct from an Eligius, GHash.IO, BTC Guild, etc.
OP! Let us know if you take that route! I would be curious to know how hard/easy it would be to buy "Brand New Coins" * from a miner!
* Also let us know if there would be any "numismatic value" to any mintages...
That sounds like fun. Coins never spent before landing in my wallet
look at my shiny virgin coins! 
...
Bitcoin = Bitcoin = Bitcoin
For almost everyone. If somebody does not want "dirty coins", they have the option to not accept them. It's a free country (smile,,,).
* * *
I have read that getting "newly generated coins" from a miner (when they win a block) is desired by some. Anyone who really wants "clean coins" might be able to buy direct from an Eligius, GHash.IO, BTC Guild, etc.
OP! Let us know if you take that route! I would be curious to know how hard/easy it would be to buy "Brand New Coins" * from a miner!
* Also let us know if there would be any "numismatic value" to any mintages...
Bitcoin = Bitcoin = Bitcoin
For almost everyone. If somebody does not want "dirty coins", they have the option to not accept them. It's a free country (smile,,,).
* * *
I have read that getting "newly generated coins" from a miner (when they win a block) is desired by some. Anyone who really wants "clean coins" might be able to buy direct from an Eligius, GHash.IO, BTC Guild, etc.
OP! Let us know if you take that route! I would be curious to know how hard/easy it would be to buy "Brand New Coins" * from a miner!
* Also let us know if there would be any "numismatic value" to any mintages...
Bad idea, coins should all be treated the same. Once I see Bitcoin develop towards a path where I might run the risk of my coins being less valuable because they're more or less tainted I will sell all my coins and find a better coin that doesn't have this problem. Fungibility is too important.
Most cash have been involved with some kind of drity transactions at some point. Are they blacklisted or marked as dirty?
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Comparing with cash is interesting but not the same. You cannot in 1 second find out how your cash has ever been spent. However, with Bitcoin I can.
I am not saying you would transact any different with all the information about all the cash you came into contact with, but you might. For example, if you found out some of the cash being offered was stolen from your neighbor you might say no thanks.
If you knew how cash was used, you wouldn't be using cash anymore. As well as the bank money, where do you think the drug money goes to? To Banks like HSBC
You have an easy solution, stop using money, sell your cows and pigs in exchange for water and food.
I believe in organization. Miners' duty is to mine, to process transactions. If someone, acting like a police force, wants to follow illegal transactions, that's fine, but we should not give that role to miners.
I already said as a global mining or payment option checking for dirty coins is fraught with issues. However, for me it would be a nice service I would want, especially when buying on localbitcoins. Before i meet with the guy I will ask for an address for proof of funds. I will check his address to see what the dirty factor is, I can choose to skip meeting him if i want.
I think it would also be a cool app to see how dirty your own coins are.
I think it would also be a cool app to see how dirty your own coins are.
Your localbitcoins scenario won't work because the bitcoins are sent from a wallet owned by localbitcoins and the seller does not know where they will come from.
Blockchain.info has a "taint" feature that will give the sources of the bitcoins at an address. You can check to see what percentage are from specific addresses.
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!!
I'm not sure about the “right to refuse”. If you refuse to give service to someone, for example, because they're black, that's discrimination and a crime in certain jurisdictions (it should be everywhere).
Haha I don't think anybody is convinced with this app...
I still don't know what constitutes a 'dirty' coin... it's open to interpretation. DieJohnny wants to impose his morals on everybody.
And who proves these coins are 'dirty?' A 3rd party? And who's to say those coins aren't ALREADY in your possession and this 3rd party deems them 'dirty' later?
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!!
I'm not sure about the “right to refuse”. If you refuse to give service to someone, for example, because they're black, that's discrimination and a crime in certain jurisdictions (it should be everywhere).
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Why only famous services? For this to work, you would need everyone to agree with this.
Also, how do you know that person is a drug dealer? Did you check the banknote serial numbers in a database?
I am talking about a service for one person not everyone. I ask for someone's originating address, i type it into my dirty coin checker. I can choose to do business or not based on the results.
But WHAT constitutes 'dirty'? What's 'dirty' for one individual may not be for the next (think global transfer). Boycott the vendor not the coins.
The only one that's gonna create such an app for you is the gov't...
Do you not realize that the right to freely trade is a basic human right?
I already said as a global mining or payment option checking for dirty coins is fraught with issues. However, for me it would be a nice service I would want, especially when buying on localbitcoins. Before i meet with the guy I will ask for an address for proof of funds. I will check his address to see what the dirty factor is, I can choose to skip meeting him if i want.
Will also be a nice way to avoid getting shot and killed by the Bitstamp thief.
The right to freely trade is a basic right, as is the right to refuse!!! It is a fact of life that some people cannot do basic transactions in life because they have violated the trust of people or society, it is just the way it is.
I think it would also be a cool app to see how dirty your own coins are.
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Why only famous services? For this to work, you would need everyone to agree with this.
Also, how do you know that person is a drug dealer? Did you check the banknote serial numbers in a database?
I am talking about a service for one person not everyone. I ask for someone's originating address, i type it into my dirty coin checker. I can choose to do business or not based on the results.
But WHAT constitutes 'dirty'? What's 'dirty' for one individual may not be for the next (think global transfer). Boycott the vendor not the coins.
The only one that's gonna create such an app for you is the gov't...
Do you not realize that the right to freely trade is a basic human right?
I am talking about a service for one person not everyone. I ask for someone's originating address, i type it into my dirty coin checker. I can choose to do business or not based on the results.
It's not that easy. The person can't be forced to send from a particular address. They could show you a clean address and send from a tainted address instead, and now all your coins are tainted (if you aren't careful).
There might be ways to mitigate or prevent this, but not with a simple blacklist service.
If the sender is sending from a shared walled (like an account on an exchange) it would be difficult to comply with such a request. If I were asked for my originating address(es) before sending a payment, I would take a pass for turning the transaction into a hassle. As bitcoin starts being adopted by the masses, I really doubt that the average non-technical bitcoin user could even figure out how to find the originating addresses about to be used in a transaction.
When case law eventually determines if bitcoin is fungible or not, in the case of "not fungible", bitcoin will likely fail as a convenient method of exchange, since it can be legally seized if it was ever used as part of criminal activity. If the law considers bitcoin fungible, your only legal obligation will be to prove that you acquired it in good faith and not as part of some criminal activity.
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Why only famous services? For this to work, you would need everyone to agree with this.
Also, how do you know that person is a drug dealer? Did you check the banknote serial numbers in a database?
I am talking about a service for one person not everyone. I ask for someone's originating address, i type it into my dirty coin checker. I can choose to do business or not based on the results.
It's not that easy. The person can't be forced to send from a particular address. They could show you a clean address and send from a tainted address instead, and now all your coins are tainted (if you aren't careful).
There might be ways to mitigate or prevent this, but not with a simple blacklist service.
Just do it already, then.
Sure but the information is there. I want the service, sooner or later someone will provide an app that does what I want. Maybe I will do it, just to bug everyone on this thread.
Do it, and see how many really want a non fungible Bitcoin.
Just FUD
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Why only famous services? For this to work, you would need everyone to agree with this.
Also, how do you know that person is a drug dealer? Did you check the banknote serial numbers in a database?
I am talking about a service for one person not everyone. I ask for someone's originating address, i type it into my dirty coin checker. I can choose to do business or not based on the results.
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