Topic: Dirty coins - page 5. (Read 5984 times)
Scammers and launderers choose bitcoin as a medium of money transfer because they deem it "safe" to use because of its anonymity. We cannot deny the fact that bitcoin is being actively used as a currency in the deep web, and seeing those seized coins sure does taint the great name of bitcoin.
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Why only famous services? For this to work, you would need everyone to agree with this.
Also, how do you know that person is a drug dealer? Did you check the banknote serial numbers in a database?
Sure but the information is there. I want the service, sooner or later someone will provide an app that does what I want. Maybe I will do it, just to bug everyone on this thread.
Do it, and see how many really want a non fungible Bitcoin.
Bitcoin was created for the purpose of being a currency. Why do you want it to be a judiciary?
It's the police's job to follow the connections between transactions and arrest the person who wants to buy a car with stolen money... or does he? What if he is innocent but happened to receive a payment from other person (and this one was related to the crime)? Finding who's to blame can't be just programmed in a protocol.
It's the police's job to follow the connections between transactions and arrest the person who wants to buy a car with stolen money... or does he? What if he is innocent but happened to receive a payment from other person (and this one was related to the crime)? Finding who's to blame can't be just programmed in a protocol.
Sure but the information is there. I want the service, sooner or later someone will provide an app that does what I want. Maybe I will do it, just to bug everyone on this thread.
Again, WHO determines which coins are dirty? A 3rd party?
How do they PROVE coins are dirty? I.E., I don't like my neighbor - I think he's up to no good... don't accept his BTC.
I've never witnessed anybody turn down cash because it was previously involved in a drug deal.
Again, this leads to ELITISM and CONTROL.
How do they PROVE coins are dirty? I.E., I don't like my neighbor - I think he's up to no good... don't accept his BTC.
I've never witnessed anybody turn down cash because it was previously involved in a drug deal.
Again, this leads to ELITISM and CONTROL.
This is just fear and noise because you are afraid of the ramifications. Any service could be as customizeable as you want. You want to only check relationship to famous addresses: Bitstamp address for example, then you could do it.
I see cash transactions all the time that do not happen because the person with the cash is a drug dealer. It happens.
Most cash have been involved with some kind of drity transactions at some point. Are they blacklisted or marked as dirty?
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Indeed. It would make people paranoid about accepting btc because it may come from illegal origin. It's not innocent people's fault. Just let the coins circulate freely. Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Again, WHO determines which coins are dirty? A 3rd party?
How do they PROVE coins are dirty? I.E., I don't like my neighbor - I think he's up to no good... don't accept his BTC.
I've never witnessed anybody turn down cash because it was previously involved in a drug deal.
Again, this leads to ELITISM and CONTROL.
How do they PROVE coins are dirty? I.E., I don't like my neighbor - I think he's up to no good... don't accept his BTC.
I've never witnessed anybody turn down cash because it was previously involved in a drug deal.
Again, this leads to ELITISM and CONTROL.
A lot of people here talking about drugs, as money used for drugs are dirty but probably a great part of bitcoins was already used for drugs in black markets, stolen by scams or anything else dirty. For now I see bitcoin much more dirty than clean and most people dont care about the past.
You want to quantify something that cannot be measured. You want to measure how dirty a coin is? What makes a coin dirty? This will vary from person to person.
WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin? Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.
Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty? The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.
It can be measured, if it is in the blockchain you can measure how much of your coins are indeed dirty and how many generations of transactions back it goes.
The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.
This is a personal decision that I want to be able to make. I do not care about the global blah blah blah. I am transacting business and I want to know that the coins I am about to purchase are not 1 generation away from a crime. Simple as that.
I realize that I will likely be using coins that have some degree of dirt embedded into them, again it is my choice how much dirt I am willing to take into my wallet.
isnt the purposes of bitcoin is to be a decentralized currency?
in fact you are saying that you will only accept coins that is untainted makes me wonder that it is the same as our cash money . which i believe we dont know if our cash have been through some drug dealer operation or or smuggler
Bitcoin was created for the purpose of being a currency. Why do you want it to be a judiciary?
It's the police's job to follow the connections between transactions and arrest the person who wants to buy a car with stolen money... or does he? What if he is innocent but happened to receive a payment from other person (and this one was related to the crime)? Finding who's to blame can't be just programmed in a protocol.
It's the police's job to follow the connections between transactions and arrest the person who wants to buy a car with stolen money... or does he? What if he is innocent but happened to receive a payment from other person (and this one was related to the crime)? Finding who's to blame can't be just programmed in a protocol.
The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.
Just curious, how do you think the social protocol would work before you do a transaction?
"Excuse me, before I give you a bitcoin address to send your payment to, I would like to examine all the addresses in your wallet that the payment may be sent from?"
That is a good point. That is basically how it must work.
The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.
Just curious, how do you think the social protocol would work before you do a transaction?
"Excuse me, before I give you a bitcoin address to send your payment to, I would like to examine all the addresses in your wallet that the payment may be sent from?"
You want to quantify something that cannot be measured. You want to measure how dirty a coin is? What makes a coin dirty? This will vary from person to person.
WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin? Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.
Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty? The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.
It can be measured, if it is in the blockchain you can measure how much of your coins are indeed dirty and how many generations of transactions back it goes.
The point again is I just want an app to give me an measurement, as long as I understand the basis of the measurement then it is UP TO ME to accept the coins or not.
This is a personal decision that I want to be able to make. I do not care about the global blah blah blah. I am transacting business and I want to know that the coins I am about to purchase are not 1 generation away from a crime. Simple as that.
I realize that I will likely be using coins that have some degree of dirt embedded into them, again it is my choice how much dirt I am willing to take into my wallet.
If you accept only coins that are not tainted in any way, then you will find that you can no longer accept any coins because all coins become tainted eventually.
I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?
Fungibility has to be absolute.
No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.
This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.
Bitcoins are bitcoins. With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address? Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.
This is how elitism is born...
Yes, almost all coins will be dirty over time. But I want to decide what that threshold is. Certainly, the capability is available right now to tell me that the coins are 100% dirty. I want to check so I don't enable evil doers directly. Maybe my threshold is 10% dirty. I get to decide.
You want to quantify something that cannot be measured. You want to measure how dirty a coin is? What makes a coin dirty? This will vary from person to person.
WHO determines what constitutes a dirty coin? Laws vary country to country... What's right in one place may not be in another.
Finally, if the coins are in your possession, why are they dirty? The past shouldn't be tied to the present use and application of your coins.
I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?
Fungibility has to be absolute.
No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.
This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.
Bitcoins are bitcoins. With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address? Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.
This is how elitism is born...
Yes, almost all coins will be dirty over time. But I want to decide what that threshold is. Certainly, the capability is available right now to tell me that the coins are 100% dirty. I want to check so I don't enable evil doers directly. Maybe my threshold is 10% dirty. I get to decide.
I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?
Fungibility has to be absolute.
No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.
This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.
Bitcoins are bitcoins. With enough time, can't you prove that most coins are dirty or stem from a dirty address? Just like cash that has trace amounts of drugs on it.
This is how elitism is born...
I understanding why miners not filtering transactions for any reason is a good idea as it would diminish the overall fungiblity of Bitcoin.
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
However, why not have an app that will tell you how dirty the coins are for a particular address that is the source of your potential exchange. You can decide if the coins are too dirty for your liking.
Example, You want to sell a car, someone offers bitcoin. You ask for his address to confirm funds. He provides an address that is a couple steps removed from the Bitstamp heist and 80% of the value in the address is directly linked to the Bitstamp heist. You tell him no thanks.
How would this impact the fungible aspects of Bitcoin?? and it is certainly easy to do so why hasn't anyone done this yet!!
Let us say you sell your car.
After that when you try to use your coins to buy something else, people say that the coins are too dirty for their liking. Wouldn't be a comfortable position, would it?
Fungibility has to be absolute.
No Fungibility does not have to be absolute. I don't have to accept CASH if I don't want to. In real life my neighbor 10 doors down can't buy ANY services from his neighbors... Not from any of the lawn mowing, house cleaning families that offer them, why.... because he is a drug dealer and everyone knows it. Nobody wants his dirty money. But the cash system moves on just fine without him.
This is really a service I want. I want an app on my phone that will tell me that you aren't a crook when I buy my bitcoins from you.
It would also in a sense exclude coins from being used freely.
It would also in my opinion add to transaction confirmation times too, if it needs to do check to see if these coins was "Dirty" or not.
We need other alternatives to stop the nature of man to be dishonest, not bind down a technology, that should be fast and freely used.
It would also in my opinion add to transaction confirmation times too, if it needs to do check to see if these coins was "Dirty" or not.
We need other alternatives to stop the nature of man to be dishonest, not bind down a technology, that should be fast and freely used.
The point is that this is just simply something that is so easy to do I am not sure why there is not more public interest in it. I would say that i would probably do it this early in the history of Bitcoin. I don't want to buy coins from someone on the street that just stole them from Bitstamp.
Most cash have been involved with some kind of drity transactions at some point. Are they blacklisted or marked as dirty?
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Do people refuse to use them? are they destroyed?
No people still accept them, I dont see why it would be any diffrent with bitcoin
Comparing with cash is interesting but not the same. You cannot in 1 second find out how your cash has ever been spent. However, with Bitcoin I can.
I am not saying you would transact any different with all the information about all the cash you came into contact with, but you might. For example, if you found out some of the cash being offered was stolen from your neighbor you might say no thanks.
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