Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) - page 60.

lebing

legendary

Activity: 1288

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Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: myrkul on August 29, 2012, 10:07:43 PM

Quote from: bg002h on August 29, 2012, 10:00:02 PM

It is hard for this to end well...maybe he is BTC rich and this won't be a large sum for him.

Bingo... This is just Pizza money.

Dont think so. Not so long ago (if I recall correctly), he was looking to raise money for starting a new venture (likely less than the value of the current bet).

myrkul

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: bg002h on August 29, 2012, 10:00:02 PM

It is hard for this to end well...maybe he is BTC rich and this won't be a large sum for him.

Bingo... This is just Pizza money.

bg002h

donator

Activity: 1466

Merit: 1048

I outlived my lifetime membership:)

Quote from: lebing on August 29, 2012, 08:52:34 PM

Quote from: n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU on August 29, 2012, 07:32:18 AM

Originally, I disagreed with Matthew's methods, but somewhat sympathized with the original motivation he presented.

However, as of yesterday, circumstances have clearly changed, given the Pirate default statement.

So Matthew's subsequent doubling down now guarantees that things will end very badly for him.

Either:

1. he loses the bet, and will be forever remembered as the obstinate idiot who doubled down and lost 30KBTC in the face of an explicit confession. No one will ever again respect him, or trust his judgement on any business matters.
2. Pirate pays, he miraculously wins the bet, in which case he will forever be suspected as a crook who had inside information.
3. he welches on the bet through a technicality or pretending it was a joke, in which case he will be forever known as someone whose word cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

Matthew, it's good to have courage and strong beliefs. But when new concrete information is brought to light, a wise man will reassess the validity of those beliefs before digging himself a deeper hole. There is no dishonor in admitting a mistake and engaging reverse. In fact, quite the opposite.

+1

It is hard for this to end well...maybe he is BTC rich and this won't be a large sum for him. As a btc poor early adopter (500 bitcoins was kid money back in the day), I know there were plenty of people here 2 years ago with that kinda change hanging around...

lebing

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1000

Enabling the maximal migration

Quote from: n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU on August 29, 2012, 07:32:18 AM

Originally, I disagreed with Matthew's methods, but somewhat sympathized with the original motivation he presented.

However, as of yesterday, circumstances have clearly changed, given the Pirate default statement.

So Matthew's subsequent doubling down now guarantees that things will end very badly for him.

Either:

1. he loses the bet, and will be forever remembered as the obstinate idiot who doubled down and lost 30KBTC in the face of an explicit confession. No one will ever again respect him, or trust his judgement on any business matters.
2. Pirate pays, he miraculously wins the bet, in which case he will forever be suspected as a crook who had inside information.
3. he welches on the bet through a technicality or pretending it was a joke, in which case he will be forever known as someone whose word cannot be trusted or taken seriously.

Matthew, it's good to have courage and strong beliefs. But when new concrete information is brought to light, a wise man will reassess the validity of those beliefs before digging himself a deeper hole. There is no dishonor in admitting a mistake and engaging reverse. In fact, quite the opposite.

+1

cedivad

legendary

Activity: 1176

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This is the strangest thread I've ever readed.
I hope mat not to lose his money, but that would be really a case on a billion.
Really curious.

bg002h

donator

Activity: 1466

Merit: 1048

I outlived my lifetime membership:)

Quote from: LoupGaroux on August 29, 2012, 10:33:18 AM

http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html

At current US tax rates, assuming pirate is single and a US citizen, the reward for reporting this to the IRS, given that 100% of the gain from this activity is profit, the reward for turning his ass in would be $1,059,345.00 at today's Mt. Gox high exchange.

So, we know Matty is good up to 94,500 btc worth of bets. According to the google spreadsheet he still stands to make over $ 662,000 in net gain IF HE LOSES THE BET. If he wins, and Hell really does freeze over, he only makes $ 397,318.83. Either way, not a bad return for taking the piss on a bunch of anonymous loudmouths like this community.

And that dear friends, is what Machiavellian thinking is all about. Matty wants you to bet against him so that he wins more by losing more.

Matthew, I salute you! Well played.

I know when I steal money, I'm always careful to declare capital gains appropriately...

Seriously though, theft isn't a capital gain and this not an IRS issue.

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on August 29, 2012, 02:04:40 PM

STOP telling Matt he can get away with something....

LOL sorry but you know its true... 90% of everyone on this forum kiss this mans ass on a regular basis, 10% have him on ignore. do the math....

jjiimm_64

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1000

What happened. a 100k happened.

fcmatt

legendary

Activity: 2072

Merit: 1001

matthew seems very quiet lately. i am used to seeing his ignored posts in every
other thread I open.

what happened?

Ente

legendary

Activity: 2126

Merit: 1001

Yes, he would get away, and I would be one of the guys laughing and congratulating him on this troll.
And yes, I am in on this bet.

Ente

jjiimm_64

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1000

STOP telling Matt he can get away with something....

cablepair

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!

Quote

Matt, old Buddy.. Do you think everyone around here thinks your so rad that they will just let you slide on that 10k BTC bet? Me personally I think they will.

I am not saying your going to pay it or not because I have no idea, I dont think your the type of person to not pay a debt but really I dont know

but I do think if one person on this forum could get away with something like this it would be you.

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on August 29, 2012, 01:39:34 PM

wait.

isn't interest on business debt tax deductible? for a million bucks, i could come up with 50k in expenses pretty easily. not insignificant.

had to get my 2 bitcents in.

Well in that case, it just makes my point even more clear. Matthew can only collect 15-30% if he is a whistle-blower......and any deductions will lower the amount collected by the IRS.

jjiimm_64

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1000

wait.

isn't interest on business debt tax deductible? for a million bucks, i could come up with 50k in expenses pretty easily. not insignificant.

had to get my 2 bitcents in.

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jjiimm_64 on August 29, 2012, 01:31:07 PM

No deductions.. i think not.

electric:
purchase computer;
purchase server:
internet:
etc etc

Well, for this example it is really meaningless.

jjiimm_64

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1000

No deductions.. i think not.

electric:
purchase computer;
purchase server:
internet:
etc etc

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: LoupGaroux on August 29, 2012, 01:10:19 PM

Actually...

500K btc @ MtGox high $11.21 = $ 5,605,000.00 total profit (his expenses are nothing in this scenario). Base tax rate with AMT adjustment on income over $ 350,000 = 63%, or $ 3,531.150. Maximum bounty on that amount of tax would be 30% or $ 1,059,345. Subtract Matty's expenses in paying off the wagers (35,443 @11.21 = $ 397,316) which nets to $ 662,028, if he loses.

And that is not accounting for any penalty for failing to report, not making his quarterly payments and all the other mischief the IRS would lump onto this case.

Peyote is not smoked, the strychnine analog is scraped off the dried buttons, and they are slowly chewed and swallowed. Alternately it can be brewed as a very astringent tea, although, personally, I find the high to be a great deal more subtle and less colorful when taken in liquid form.

Any other thoughts you would like to share?

ROFL.

You are completely full of shit. The AMT is designed to keep high income parties from using deductions to lower their taxable income to such a point that they pay an obscenely low marginal rate. It is a parallel system that runs alongside the normal rate schedule, hence the name ALTERNATIVE Minimum tax. It is not a fee levied on top of the normally owed tax. Thus, the maximum AMT tax rate is 28%. Claiming it is even possible to get to a 63% rate immediately betrays the fact that you know nothing of what you speak.

Finally, Pirate would never fall into an AMT situation because he would have no deductions to begin with, and the effective rate on the "profits" would be nearly 35%.....thus leading to a higher tax than under AMT.

Go Google some more.

LoupGaroux

sr. member

Activity: 574

Merit: 250

Actually...

500K btc @ MtGox high $11.21 = $ 5,605,000.00 total profit (his expenses are nothing in this scenario). Base tax rate with AMT adjustment on income over $ 350,000 = 63%, or $ 3,531.150. Maximum bounty on that amount of tax would be 30% or $ 1,059,345. Subtract Matty's expenses in paying off the wagers (35,443 @11.21 = $ 397,316) which nets to $ 662,028, if he loses.

And that is not accounting for any penalty for failing to report, not making his quarterly payments and all the other mischief the IRS would lump onto this case.

Peyote is not smoked, the strychnine analog is scraped off the dried buttons, and they are slowly chewed and swallowed. Alternately it can be brewed as a very astringent tea, although, personally, I find the high to be a great deal more subtle and less colorful when taken in liquid form.

Any other thoughts you would like to share?

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: LoupGaroux on August 29, 2012, 10:33:18 AM

http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html

At current US tax rates, assuming pirate is single and a US citizen, the reward for reporting this to the IRS, given that 100% of the gain from this activity is profit, the reward for turning his ass in would be $1,059,345.00 at today's Mt. Gox high exchange.

So, we know Matty is good up to 94,500 btc worth of bets. According to the google spreadsheet he still stands to make over $ 662,000 in net gain IF HE LOSES THE BET. If he wins, and Hell really does freeze over, he only makes $ 397,318.83. Either way, not a bad return for taking the piss on a bunch of anonymous loudmouths like this community.

And that dear friends, is what Machiavellian thinking is all about. Matty wants you to bet against him so that he wins more by losing more.

Matthew, I salute you! Well played.

Nice try.

The reward is based on the AMOUNT COLLECTED. Anyone who thinks Pirate has the full amount of 5,000,000 just waiting to pay to the IRS is smoking Peyote.

Also, Pirate would only owe the TAX on the 5,000,000, not the entire amount. So we are talking, AT MOST, about 2,000,000.....which would make the "reward" about 400K.

And that dear friends, is what googleing a subject and becoming an internet expert on tax policies in 10 seconds is all about. He wants you to think he is smart, but really has no clue what he is talking about.

crosby

sr. member

Activity: 366

Merit: 250

#RIP freemoney

I would like to up my amount to 500 BTC

Topic: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) - page 60. (Read 104472 times)