Topic: Do we even need bitcoin mixers? - page 2. (Read 671 times)

To be honest, I don't see reasons for me to mix my Bitcoin. That doesn't mean I don't care about my privacy. Of course, I am concerned about my privacy, but how will others know about my holdings? Let's say I withdraw from Binance to my BTC address. So they know who owns this bitcoin. What makes that risky for me? Will Binance attack me? If I can't trust them, then I haven't verified my KYC with them. If I don't have dirty funds or gambling funds, then I shouldn't have a problem with them. However, we can still exchange our bitcoin with someone else by p2p. We can sell Bitcoin and buyback again. We may lose some fees, of course, and the system may lose. But for me, I am fine when I am holding my bitcoin in a non-custodial wallet. 

LOL. I'm sorry I didn't laugh at you, but I did laugh at myself. I remember very well when I was a lower rank member of this forum and never understood anything about privacy. I would say I don't have need for a mixer;
I don't also have need for a privacy coin;
I do not fear KYC;
probably because I thought I'm safe because I'm not a criminal. Little did I know that securing your personal data should be the obligation of everyone whether a criminal or a saint. Just believe that you will one day not recieve a troubled bitcoin under government's scrutiny.

No, we don't need.
People who trust mixers, how do you know there is no logging your ip and input/output addresses on backend?
You trust message "Anonymous/Privacy" on their website?
If even "the most private and anonymous" Proton mail working with police...

Even a greater method would be just not using a mixer or not hiding your coins. I mean most people are trying to hide their coins and unless you got them illegally they what's the point of trying to hide your money? I get that "personal preference" could be some peoples answer but then you are taking a huge risk of getting tagged just because you are doing something that doesn't really end up being all that easy to handle, you should try to avoid that as much as you possibly could.

I think that is the trouble, you are not going to end up with anything that would be all that confusing, and you should be considering that as the most important part of your deal, it would not be all that great if you are not careful about it.

I think that's what one should look for when he/she is aiming to search for a decentralized exchange. But, can you please tell me that is there any truly decentralized exchange including Bisq that doesn't rely on system's own centralization?

Although, Bisq is truly decentralized but still the trading disputes are often solved by the arbitrators or mediators and that's somehow a centralization thing not at government level but at exchange level. So if we keep that in mind then Bisq also has its own centralization system that's free from government interference but isn't free from the interference of the system's own centralization.

I won't question Bisq's decentralization in other sense because its doing best for the traders and crypto community and is preserving the privacy of the users but still I won't say that any decentralized exchange is decentralized in true sense.

The ones that I shared who did rug-pull to investors also promoted themselves as decentralized exchanges but they turned into scams. I would highly prefer Bisq over other decentralized exchanges, and also over those centralized exchanges that doesn't require any KYC.

The exchanges that doesn't require KYC often work as honeypots and the users who trade on those exchanges are always at risk of loosing their Bitcoin. But, I would still not support other decentralized exchanges and the users should use them on their own risk.

That was a DeFi exchange, not a decentralized. No truly decentralized exchange offers farming rewards, staking pools, referral programs and a shit-token called SARP. And as already said, if an exchange is decentralized, it does not take custody.

Similar thoughts as well. Anonymity, or even just privacy, being optional is good, depending on how you look at it. Sure, I'd rather have protocol privacy by default, but if to accomplish that I'd have to turn Bitcoin in an "underground" currency, then we better split into separate networks (Bitcoin, Monero) and freely choose what fits us best afterwards.

Been quite long time here as well, at first I'm curious how those platform works but fortunately I was able to use once, and basically it is just for privacy purposes, nothing's fancy if you are not a fan of publicity and you don't want your transaction to be tracked. Might as well this is the reason why government are giving some slap on it tagging as fraud. For normal people, who doesn't care about privacy it'll look like an unnecessary process to do, for some people it means security for them. Although let us not set aside the fact that money launderers use such platforms for illegal activities.

Privacy coins are mostly well built out of the box for those who want to make transactions anonymously, something that's not available in Bitcoin mech, but I understand why people wished that Bitcoin was made this way, more people will always prefer Bitcoin over XMR, but the truth is XMR is perfect for anonymous way of moving funds around.

I am glad that Satoshi doesn't build Bitcoin as a privacy coin because the hate will be much more than what we are seeing today, the government will even have more reason to want to kill Bitcoin, it will be called the criminal's digital money and it will fits just well.

Mixers are not really necessary, I haven't use it once because I don't see why I should, and if I have to do any private transaction I will go for Monero (XMR).

The only two quotes worth anything in this topic, from my perspective.

The truth is, we do not need Bitcoin mixers. As you guys have correctly stated, there is a better way of anonymously buying and selling as well as swapping Bitcoin and XMR. There is no point in banning mixers other than to make it harder for people to anonymize their coins. That is it, really.

I myself have never used mixers because I see no reason to. Bitcoin was never meant to be anonymous. Private, yes. But there is a world of difference between being anonymous and being private.

Can we talk about atomic swaps between XMR and BTC? Combined with BisQ, thats really all it takes. Or am I wrong?

Neither of them are decentralized exchanges, many projects trick many people by using DE CEFI terms.

Instant swap platform also not decentralized or can be trusted, look at this accusation $6,000 Stuck on Bitsar.com Exchange. Offering 30% reward for recovery

If you think sending a coin from one to other is hard or risky since you might lost your coins, there's no difference with sending to mixer.

Op you method or process of sending Bitcoin is too cumbersome they are all in altcoinstalks and if anyone wants to use them, they person should visit there and do the tumbling that is very easy instead of sending to XMR and from there to Monero address 1 and from address 1 to address 2. Hey!! I am might make a mistake in that process and the coins might lost. So if I want to do it I would just go the altcoinstalks forum and use any of them there to tumble my coins. Because using tumbler is the most easiest way to sent Bitcoin to any address and not that your method. The transaction fee will even be more than using only one time transfer.

If mixers is been ban in the forum that doesn't necessarily mean that you can not make use of mixers if you wishes to make use mixers, the reason while all the mixers in bitcointalk are there before theymos ban them is to create awareness of their platforms and we have a different mixers that is in existence and I believe if you want make use of mixers you can visit their site and make your exchange that is untraceable with them.

Without any doubt Bisq is the only decentralized exchange that we can call truly decentralized. I would consider it as a P2P decentralized exchange rather than a decentralized exchange simply. The Bisq is surely a safe and trusted option that works like a charm for everyone. I would never say anyone to avoid a decentralized exchange Bisq but other decentralized exchanges aren't that safe as we consider them.


I think one of those rug-pull decentralized exchanges is Swaprum’s that did a rug-pull exist and stole funds of the users. They did that by adding a backdoor function which allowed them to steal the funds from the LP of the users.

You may read this article to know further about their rug-pull exit scam.

Another rug-pull scam from a decentralized exchange was done by Merlin Dex, they also stole the funds of the users.

i been here 12 years, never used a mixer. ive moved coins alot. even in exchanges, i have a healthy stash of coins (not my vanity address) .. dare you to find my stash

If you need mixer, you need mixer. The fact that forum banned it doesn't decide whether you need to use it or not.

Bitcoin is getting very decentralized. There you have blockchain analysis firms that can't even detect accurately whether your coins are clean or dirty, so, they can claim your coins dirty any time and you'll be forced to submit KYC documents, then they'll apologize by saying that it was a false positive. To be honest, I believe that over time blockchain analysis companies will improve their capabilities and accuracy. If you want to leave no traces, use just Monero, nothing else.

It could be that users of Bitcoin mixers wanted a much more convenient way of changing the image of their Bitcoin holdings instead of using the tricky BTC-XMR-BTC way or they are just making sure things will work accurate or else their funds will be compromised most specially if it was from a "dirty money".

All mixers start off as being 'reliable', mixers are good but you must understand that you lose custody of your coins when you use them, so if a mixer suddenly stops being 'reliable' as we've seen it happen often, there is a chance you may lose your coins. This is why people prefer self custodial privacy solutions like CoinJoin implementations.
Can you name a few? True p2p exchanges do not hold the funds of their customers', so there is no way for them to rug-pull them. Take note that you don't 'trust' true decentralized exchanges, it is trustless, just like BTC. Because all they do is connect you to your trading peer, you don't have to 'trust' them with your data or your funds.

Then they weren't truly decentralized. If you're referring to the well-known DeFi, 99.9% of it is not decentralized; it is not even exchange. It is just a manner to use blockchain, so you can call your activity "decentralized", where it's just you who makes up the rules.

If you want to make use of a truly decentralized exchange, check out Bisq. It runs for years and is as decentralized as it gets with the operation of a DAO: https://bisq.wiki/Main_Page.

The ones who use the mixers already know that they can do what OP shared with us in this thread but still they prefer to use mixers. The mixers have some extra perks and they can reduce someone's precious time and the reliable ones never run with your money.

The exchanges especially decentralized exchanges can't be trusted because they can be rug-pull schemes. I have seen many decentralized exchanges that scammed their users and took a rug-pull type of exit. That's another reason to not trust the decentralized exchanges.

The game is totally different with centralized exchanges as they are already connected with the governmental organizations and as soon as they receive a suspicious transaction, they will freeze the accounts that receive such transactions.

If your coins are clean then you may not need to fear anyways but if you bought coins from someone whom you don't know then you can still face some problems if those coins come from a suspected address. The mixers solve issues for such innocent people who buy coins from unknown people and may otherwise get strong actions against them just for the purchase.

I believe that's another reason which is stopping people to invest in Bitcoin because the big investors might fear that if the coins that they have bought somehow come from a tagged address then they might face legal issues in future. That's why they prefer to use mixers to be safe from such legal issues.

You already get yourself tagged as a higher threshold when you use any kind of on-chain obfuscation or swapping with XMR.

You might as well require everyone submit their ID papers before they can create a bitcoin address.