Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here? - page 8.

qwk

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Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: Xian01 on August 28, 2013, 08:33:45 AM

Quote from: -ck on August 26, 2013, 04:18:58 PM

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

I can't think of any reasons why this proposal wouldn't work. No sarcasm. It would immediately solve many of the problems in this sub.

The reason why it won't work:
There needs to be someone to decide which "company" is eligible for a subforum.
Who will do that, and on what grounds?

Sell the subforums, and the vendors who want to be taken seriously will buy them themselves.

qwk

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Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: Rival on August 27, 2013, 01:12:52 PM

I think just a basic minimal amount of moderation would solve 99% of the problems.

#1) Posting anyone anywhere's contact information = ACCOUNT BAN
#2) Accusing anyone anywhere of criminal activity = ACCOUNT BAN
#3) Threatening anyone anywhere with violence = ACCOUNT BAN
#4) Multiple accounts = ACCOUNT BAN

#1)
- does that include posting a link to somebody's facebook account?
- what about cases of escrowed contact information that should be published?
- what about posting a company address for complaints etc?
#2)
- what about accusing someone of a legal activity in their respective country that would be illegal in the posters' country?
- what about pointing out that a certain activity could be considered illegal under certain circumstances?
#3)
- no questions about that, but I could imagine that to be a slippery slope as well.
#4)
- outright no. That's been thoroughly discussed and it is "forum moderation consent" that multiple accounts are okay.

The point here is, it's really difficult to find a golden set of rules for a global community with different views, beliefs, legal systems, and cultural backgrounds. Things may look clear for you, but they most likely won't be for everybody else for any given case of the above.

I still propose the market solution, make vendors pay for "vanity forums":
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3011400
That would probably solve the problem once and for all.

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: -ck on August 26, 2013, 04:18:58 PM

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

I can't think of any reasons why this proposal wouldn't work. No sarcasm. It would immediately solve many of the problems in this sub.

EDIT: I might suggest refining this a bit further as "Custom Hardware Development and Announcements" and "Custom Hardware Meta and Community"; I feel "Vendor Customer Discussion" is too narrow to be genuinely useful.

Bicknellski

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Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 04:26:23 PM

Quote from: creativex on August 27, 2013, 10:53:26 AM

Quote from: Yogafan00000 on August 27, 2013, 09:34:59 AM

Moderate nothing. Let the ignore button do it's job.

Make a new sub-forum for each of the major manufacturers and 1 more for any new entrants to the bitcoin mining marketspace. They can be promoted to their own new sub-forum if they make it bigger and appear not to be a scam.

+1.

-1

It's not the forum mods' job to legitimise one manufacturer over another by giving them their own subforum.

(Different Shit...Below)

It is for the fabricators to legitimise themselves and to band together to agree on standards and promote the industry to everyone in the community in a POSITIVE manner.

Have a Custom Hardware Association subforum that is moderated by members and users. All agree to set standards to post and publish in the subforum. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/diy-custom-open-hardware-software-guild-call-for-ideas-282030 That way the Association and Users are all responsible for the upkeep of the subforum based on a clear set ethical standards for businesses selling mining rigs, chips or diy projects. If you don't want to join (agree to the standards as a fabricator) you can still PAY the FORUM to advertise. That way it is free to advertize but you need to accept the standards before you can POST to the subforum. If you do not comply with the standards you are banned from posting in that subform and your posts are locked and moved elsewhere.

iikun

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It may simply incentivize sock puppet usage, but one idea would be to ban thread posts from professional manufacturers in this section. If they want to use this forum for advertising then let them pay.
People would be less vitriolic if this sub wasn't peppered with "pre-order now!" threads & instead promoted such topics as how to o/c or fine tune their hardware.

nexus99

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Wow, this thread got hijacked too.

k9quaint

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Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 08:32:40 PM

You want the forum mods to be the police, and that has been discussed countless times before and they've made it clear they have no intention of becoming that. I've offered a solution within their framework. You want to resuscitate those discussions yet again? Fine, but I'm not arguing that one out with you.

The mods already move threads around based on topic. Adding subforums and changing the topics that can be discussed in them would not be asking the mods to do anything they are not doing already.

For instance:
Conversations involving speculation about future products doesn't really belong with modding/overclocking/debugging existing ones. That is a clear topical boundary that could be easily enforced by mods using their existing activities.

miter_myles

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This place and especially this section has become it's own self sustaining "Troll Box" BTC-E style..

More section specific "neutral" mods, who can keep this place straight would be the best bet. You can make a zillion sub-forums, but they will all mirror the main forum if it isn't policed and moderated... without this action -> things will be much like the current one, just split in different areas... You will still have the same clowns copy/pasting the same "OMG READ THIS VERY IMPORTANT WORD VOMIT ON WHY SOMEONE OR A COMPANY SUCKS BALLSACKS!!!1!11!!" in every thread or new thread..

If people see that you can't get away with all the senseless bullshit.. if they value the account/user name.. they will probably stop.

Also - it would probably help to have a sticky thread for new people browsing this section... it would have to be a fact driven thread of past, current and near future outlooks.. neutral if at all possible..

erk

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Quote from: -ck on August 26, 2013, 04:18:58 PM

It is completely out of control and is unacceptable.

It's time to split off the threads and make the subforums suitable.

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

I don't think juggling the subforums will have much effect, you will still have anarchy and 90% of the posts being off topic.

If the mods don't want to mod, then you need a system where the people can mod by vote. eg. by a score on the post, and the ability to hide posts below a certain score.

YipYip

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Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 08:32:40 PM

You want the forum mods to be the police, and that has been discussed countless times before and they've made it clear they have no intention of becoming that. I've offered a solution within their framework. You want to resuscitate those discussions yet again? Fine, but I'm not arguing that one out with you.

I agree about free speech and not becoming police....but what about when the community has spoken

If we have 80%+ of the forum say that BFL should get a UNTRUSTWORTHY/SCAMMER tag and nothing happens what can you do Huh

Was this not that same story with Pirate...!

FCTaiChi

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decentralizedhashing.com

Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 08:32:40 PM

You want the forum mods to be the police, and that has been discussed countless times before and they've made it clear they have no intention of becoming that. I've offered a solution within their framework. You want to resuscitate those discussions yet again? Fine, but I'm not arguing that one out with you.

If you're responding to me, nothing of the sort.

Quote from: -ck on August 26, 2013, 04:18:58 PM

I suggest renaming "Custom hardware" to "Custom hardware development" and adding another hardware subforum "Vendor customer discussion"

I agree that custom hardware is a little clunky, someone mentioned that it should be specifically for people modifying existing hardware. Makes sense.
I could see organizing it differently. Having a couple subforums with just the right goal would do wonders.
What I was arguing against is making one for each developer.

Still, though there is a difficulty of policing here. If you have a Custom hardware development page separate from the Vendor customer discussion page, where do you draw the line? Are people allowed to ask questions in the development page? If not it's basically just advertising by the company. If so how do you decide if it's a valid question, or if the person should be redirected to the Vendor page? Basically it seems that we would be back to the same situation of the thread needing to be monitored by the OP, deleting what was deemed to be off topic, or mods would have to step in. We're back to the ignore button, right?

Edit- Yoga I like the idea, but how would you decide which people get subforums?

Yogafan00000

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Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 04:26:23 PM

-1

It's not the forum mods' job to legitimise one manufacturer over another by giving them their own subforum.

The mods will not have legitimized anything. We've already legitimized the manu's by starting dozens of threads about BFL, another dozen about BitSynCom, KNC, etc. We started those threads because we lent support at some point to those manufacturers and we all want to talk about it. This is where the legitimacy was created.

All I'm suggesting is we group the existing threads into more manageable sub-forums for better visibility. If we all collectively stop discussing BFL/Avalon/Bitfury for bad or good their respective sub-forum can be dropped/merged into the main forum.

Nobody is going to be tricked into buying a Monarch because there happens to be a sub-forum about BFL on bitcointalk.org.

-ck

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Ruu \o/

You want the forum mods to be the police, and that has been discussed countless times before and they've made it clear they have no intention of becoming that. I've offered a solution within their framework. You want to resuscitate those discussions yet again? Fine, but I'm not arguing that one out with you.

FCTaiChi

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decentralizedhashing.com

Quote from: k9quaint on August 27, 2013, 07:41:52 PM

Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 07:31:32 PM

Somehow even THIS thread has turned to the same shit. Do something about it now.

Maybe the problem isn't the threads. Had you considered that?
When people ask about bitcoin, I send them to this thread first:
List of Major Bitcoin Heists, Thefts, Hacks, Scams, and Losses

That way, they get a feeling for just how often people get ripped off around here. It could be that enough people are finally tired of watching the revolving door of scams and thefts. Absent any intervention by the mods, the response from these people is fragmented and ad hoc. There really needs to be a higher bar to post content on the custom hardware forum. Perhaps there needs to be custom hardware in existence before you can discuss it here, otherwise it is just speculation about mining. A separate DIY forum would be useful as well, so that community projects can do their thing in relatively calm waters. Hiving off group buys worked well for that forum.

We don't need to solve everything with some sweeping overhaul. A simple rule change about eligibility of threads for this forum combined with re-education of the ignore button would be a good start. If it is insufficient, the mods can continue to tinker.

Yes education - or organizing the information could do wonders. Also I considered saying that this subforum should be harder to post into, but I'm not sure if that would help.

Adding too many subforums would fragment the discussion and allow for the trolls and sockpuppets to run wild. We should congregate all information and make a place for it, rather than try to outlaw it. Maybe a separate scam accusations for hardware, or custom hardware.

k9quaint

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Quote from: -ck on August 27, 2013, 07:31:32 PM

Somehow even THIS thread has turned to the same shit. Do something about it now.

Maybe the problem isn't the threads. Had you considered that?
When people ask about bitcoin, I send them to this thread first:
List of Major Bitcoin Heists, Thefts, Hacks, Scams, and Losses

That way, they get a feeling for just how often people get ripped off around here. It could be that enough people are finally tired of watching the revolving door of scams and thefts. Absent any intervention by the mods, the response from these people is fragmented and ad hoc. There really needs to be a higher bar to post content on the custom hardware forum. Perhaps there needs to be custom hardware in existence before you can discuss it here, otherwise it is just speculation about mining. A separate DIY forum would be useful as well, so that community projects can do their thing in relatively calm waters. Hiving off group buys worked well for that forum.

We don't need to solve everything with some sweeping overhaul. A simple rule change about eligibility of threads for this forum combined with re-education of the ignore button would be a good start. If it is insufficient, the mods can continue to tinker.

-ck

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Ruu \o/

Somehow even THIS thread has turned to the same shit. You really need to do something about it now.

01BTC10

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Quote from: YipYip on August 27, 2013, 07:26:32 PM

I loled....

They have by inaction created this problem......... Tongue

In theory the free market should eventually cut the ads budget of BFL if they are a scam (or incompetent).

YipYip

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I loled....

They have by inaction created this problem......... Tongue

01BTC10

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Quote from: Xialla on August 27, 2013, 05:15:10 PM

*make different sections for custom HW, which exist and custom HW, which is in development/for preorder

and important question: why you are still taking money from BFL and allowing them to advertise here? just explain me why? every second thread in custom HW section is full of evidence, how they fuck up with guys here, every day thousands of dollars are lost in hand of these idiots and board is full of BFL preorder advertisement? company is without scammer tag and guy, which represent the company telling other "morons, idiots, cocksuckers" to his customers?

why you are ignoring strong voice of the community and still allowing BFL representatives access to this board?

This and this.

Unfortunately, I also understand that this is a free market (this forum also promote freedom of speech) and everyone should do their own research before buying. Theymos don't want to act like a central authority that choose which vendor can advertise and which one can't.

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: Xialla on August 27, 2013, 05:15:10 PM

why you are ignoring strong voice of the community and still allowing BFL representatives access to this board?

Because the administration of these forums don't have a conscience and are whores for the money.

Topic: Do we want to continue to allow various vendor hate in here? - page 8. (Read 17371 times)