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Topic: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ? - page 76. (Read 142276 times)

legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
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January 11, 2017, 03:10:21 AM
Cumputer?! What did I miss?

Nevertheless, if you read my reply carefully, you would certainly see that I specifically mentioned "if your computer gets compromised". That pretty much accounts for your assumption and basically means that even if you run or create your wallets as well as encrypt them (or do some other black magic) on a clean box, this doesn't in the least prevent your computer from the possibility of being compromised any moment (I'm afraid even to imagine what might happen to a "cumputer" in this regard). You should understand that as long as your desktop or notebook is connected to Internet, you are in a red-light district, so to speak

Computer as in PC or notebook or whatever other name label you want to stick on it. Yes, whatever you do when you're connected to the internet there is always a possibility of having your connection/system compromised. That's why you at all times should perform a thorough system checkup before you copy your digital wallet files or private keys into the client you are running. But it basically only applies to people having a decent level of understanding regarding their OS. The average Bitcoiner won't go through all of this aside from the standard antivirus to scan their system.

Oh, now you come (wtf) to understand that web wallets are actually a better choice for an average Bitcoiner? After your computer gets infected and your coins are gone, standard (or whatever) antivirus checks would be like flogging a dead horse. But you still don't get it. Your thorough system checkup before you add your wallet and add coins to it won't protect your system from a possible compromise in the future. There are so-called 0-day vulnerabilities (if you don't know) which may render your efforts fruitless, even if you yourself don't do something stupid. The only 100% bullet and foolproof solution is to use cold storage...

Or stick to a web wallet and hope that they do
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1091
January 10, 2017, 06:23:03 PM
I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.
I agree with your point that online wallets are working like banks for bitcoin and with them we often feel insecurity and prefer desktop wallets and consider the desktop wallets as more secure so not any more banks like them we need we are happy to have our coins with us.

Desktop clients are indeed the better option as you have full control over every aspect of your coins, but that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer with the required security measures. It's not that when you make use of a desktop client that you automatically enjoy a high level of security. It's as safe as you want it to be. That's why it's important to secure all your wallet files with lengthy passphrases. On top of that you can add an extra layer of protection by encrypting your wallet files

That would really add nothing to security

Your private key is still held in memory unencrypted for some time (I don't even mention keyloggers), so if your computer gets compromised, most likely you can kiss your coins good-bye. Even if you run Linux in an unprivileged environment, there are exploits that allow the attacker to get root access (if you use unpatched kernel). Once I did that myself on my own Linux box for test purposes. I found an exploit for my version of kernel, it was just a few lines of bash code, and voila, I got root access from an unprivileged account. And with root access (administrative access in case of Windows) you can do pretty much anything (e.g. read any segment of memory)

If you took the effort to thoroughly read through my post, then you would have noticed that I stated "that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer". So yes, it does add plenty to the security of your private keys. Paranoid people can even choose to run a seperate system solely for the purpose of syncing and transacting through their desktop client.

Cumputer?! What did I miss?

Nevertheless, if you read my reply carefully, you would certainly see that I specifically mentioned "if your computer gets compromised". That pretty much accounts for your assumption and basically means that even if you run or create your wallets as well as encrypt them (or do some other black magic) on a clean box, this doesn't in the least prevent your computer from the possibility of being compromised any moment (I'm afraid even to imagine what might happen to a "cumputer" in this regard). You should understand that as long as your desktop or notebook is connected to Internet, you are in a red-light district, so to speak

Computer as in PC or notebook or whatever other name label you want to stick on it. Yes, whatever you do when you're connected to the internet there is always a possibility of having your connection/system compromised. That's why you at all times should perform a thorough system checkup before you copy your digital wallet files or private keys into the client you are running. But it basically only applies to people having a decent level of understanding regarding their OS. The average Bitcoiner won't go through all of this aside from the standard antivirus to scan their system.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 501
January 10, 2017, 06:05:30 PM
Do this bitcoin bank will work the same as an ordinary one? Well, I don't see the sense in this idea. To create something new and separated, all that will ask costs. better would be an ordinary bank would start to work with bitcoin. That seems me much more easy.
i do not think it that it can be so much effective. because to me i think it is more easy to withdraw or deposit bitcoin in online wallet and you can have easy access to your wallet all the time therefore to me i think bitcoin walle is sitll the best option.
hero member
Activity: 980
Merit: 523
January 10, 2017, 05:56:34 PM
I do not agree with Bitcoin integrated in banks because if Bitcoin will be integrated in banks then we will have to pay for transaction fees beside the miners. I am using Bitcoin because there is no 3rd party that controls my transaction, another thing we will not become anonymous if we do have Bitcoin banks because in banks you need your personal details in order to open a bank account.
there is a lot of people against of bitcoin bank because we do not want to pay high fees in bitcoin bank you can see that bank has too much high fees and bitcoin has too much low fees so a lot of people like digital system for bitcoin than bitcoin bank.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
January 10, 2017, 01:56:57 PM
I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.
I agree with your point that online wallets are working like banks for bitcoin and with them we often feel insecurity and prefer desktop wallets and consider the desktop wallets as more secure so not any more banks like them we need we are happy to have our coins with us.

Desktop clients are indeed the better option as you have full control over every aspect of your coins, but that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer with the required security measures. It's not that when you make use of a desktop client that you automatically enjoy a high level of security. It's as safe as you want it to be. That's why it's important to secure all your wallet files with lengthy passphrases. On top of that you can add an extra layer of protection by encrypting your wallet files

That would really add nothing to security

Your private key is still held in memory unencrypted for some time (I don't even mention keyloggers), so if your computer gets compromised, most likely you can kiss your coins good-bye. Even if you run Linux in an unprivileged environment, there are exploits that allow the attacker to get root access (if you use unpatched kernel). Once I did that myself on my own Linux box for test purposes. I found an exploit for my version of kernel, it was just a few lines of bash code, and voila, I got root access from an unprivileged account. And with root access (administrative access in case of Windows) you can do pretty much anything (e.g. read any segment of memory)

If you took the effort to thoroughly read through my post, then you would have noticed that I stated "that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer". So yes, it does add plenty to the security of your private keys. Paranoid people can even choose to run a seperate system solely for the purpose of syncing and transacting through their desktop client.

Cumputer?! What did I miss?

Nevertheless, if you read my reply carefully, you would certainly see that I specifically mentioned "if your computer gets compromised". That pretty much accounts for your assumption and basically means that even if you run or create your wallets as well as encrypt them (or do some other black magic) on a clean box, this doesn't in the least prevent your computer from the possibility of being compromised any moment (I'm afraid even to imagine what might happen to a "cumputer" in this regard). You should understand that as long as your desktop or notebook is connected to Internet, you are in a red-light district, so to speak
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1091
January 10, 2017, 01:47:59 PM
I dont see the real need of such bitcoin bank at all, whats the purpose let the coins safe? Trust into a third companie to store your bitcoins? To get extra interest montly or year? Anyway i do know we do use web wallets, and wallets made for a third company, but they havent control over the coins, something a bank would get, i like the freedom that i do have now and there is no way to such thing happen and make me change my mind.
I agree with your point that online wallets are working like banks for bitcoin and with them we often feel insecurity and prefer desktop wallets and consider the desktop wallets as more secure so not any more banks like them we need we are happy to have our coins with us.

Desktop clients are indeed the better option as you have full control over every aspect of your coins, but that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer with the required security measures. It's not that when you make use of a desktop client that you automatically enjoy a high level of security. It's as safe as you want it to be. That's why it's important to secure all your wallet files with lengthy passphrases. On top of that you can add an extra layer of protection by encrypting your wallet files

That would really add nothing to security

Your private key is still held in memory unencrypted for some time (I don't even mention keyloggers), so if your computer gets compromised, most likely you can kiss your coins good-bye. Even if you run Linux in an unprivileged environment, there are exploits that allow the attacker to get root access (if you use unpatched kernel). Once I did that myself on my own Linux box for test purposes. I found an exploit for my version of kernel, it was just a few lines of bash code, and voila, I got root access from an unprivileged account. And with root access (administrative access in case of Windows) you can do pretty much anything (e.g. read any segment of memory)

If you took the effort to thoroughly read through my post, then you would have noticed that I stated "that's assuming you run on a clean cumputer". So yes, it does add plenty to the security of your private keys. Paranoid people can even choose to run a seperate system solely for the purpose of syncing and transacting through their desktop client.
hero member
Activity: 1134
Merit: 502
January 10, 2017, 12:13:13 PM
I do not agree with Bitcoin integrated in banks because if Bitcoin will be integrated in banks then we will have to pay for transaction fees beside the miners. I am using Bitcoin because there is no 3rd party that controls my transaction, another thing we will not become anonymous if we do have Bitcoin banks because in banks you need your personal details in order to open a bank account.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1020
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
January 10, 2017, 12:10:34 PM
Do this bitcoin bank will work the same as an ordinary one? Well, I don't see the sense in this idea. To create something new and separated, all that will ask costs. better would be an ordinary bank would start to work with bitcoin. That seems me much more easy.

This will makes lost traders job because people will just use bank then.
Bitcoin bank concept is not possible because when Bitcoin price grows than everyone want their Bitcoin in their own wallet so bank will bankrupt when Bitcoin price grows. Another point is if Bitcoin banks exist than Bank charges cost will be more so holding Bitcoin in a bank account will be more costly otherwise how bitcoin banks will recover their operating cost like salary of employees etc.   
Those expenses would be charged from the users on it and we all know bitcoins price does really increase and you are right bank would possibly closed just like on other online investment when bitcoins price sudden rises they tend to close for profits purposes thats why its still very risky and people would rather choose a wallet than banks.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 500
January 10, 2017, 11:53:31 AM
Do this bitcoin bank will work the same as an ordinary one? Well, I don't see the sense in this idea. To create something new and separated, all that will ask costs. better would be an ordinary bank would start to work with bitcoin. That seems me much more easy.

This will makes lost traders job because people will just use bank then.
Bitcoin bank concept is not possible because when Bitcoin price grows than everyone want their Bitcoin in their own wallet so bank will bankrupt when Bitcoin price grows. Another point is if Bitcoin banks exist than Bank charges cost will be more so holding Bitcoin in a bank account will be more costly otherwise how bitcoin banks will recover their operating cost like salary of employees etc.   
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
January 10, 2017, 11:29:44 AM
Do this bitcoin bank will work the same as an ordinary one? Well, I don't see the sense in this idea. To create something new and separated, all that will ask costs. better would be an ordinary bank would start to work with bitcoin. That seems me much more easy.

This will makes lost traders job because people will just use bank then.
hero member
Activity: 1078
Merit: 514
January 10, 2017, 10:09:15 AM
Do this bitcoin bank will work the same as an ordinary one? Well, I don't see the sense in this idea. To create something new and separated, all that will ask costs. better would be an ordinary bank would start to work with bitcoin. That seems me much more easy.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
January 10, 2017, 10:02:38 AM
You don't even consider how many people are willing to store their coins elsewhere just for the free of charge transactions and basic security even if they don't get any interest at all. But, as the proverb goes, a penny saved is a penny gained, so the amount saved on such transactions can well be thought as kind of interest. Though I don't think that all these people using web wallets (here I refer to them obviously) are somehow convinced in the sense you mean it...

Since if you have to transact often with relatively small amounts, that maybe your only viable option
If that's really the case, then certain people are even more pathetic than I was initially thinking.

Look at it how you want, saving on a few thousand satoshis worth of transaction fees is just peanuts. In no way can that be considered whatever form of interest.

But maybe I am not yet fully aware of how stingy/ignorant can really be. Nothing comes free in this world, so even these "free" transaction costs have to be paid in one way or another.

They are not pathetic, they are rational and pragmatic

And it is no longer a few thousand satoshi, it is now more about a few dozen thousands of satoshi if you don't want your funds frozen and your transaction rejected in a couple of days. I really don't know how, say, Coinbase makes free of charge transactions possible (I mean where they get all the funds), but they have been offering this service since at least 2013 (if not from the very beginning) when there weren't Bitcoin payment cards yet and any other such services for compensating their expenses
legendary
Activity: 1386
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DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
January 10, 2017, 10:01:46 AM
I think that we do not need it and I also think its impossible, the fact is also that it will be more central and controlling it by yourself will never be the same again.

yeah this is true. it is more easier to control your bitcoin if you just use your bitcoin in your wallet. making banks for it needs a little effort just to get or deposit or something. we just need to choose a trusted bitcoin holder for our bitcoin to be secured.
why would bother on seeking for someone to hold on our bitcoin since we could able to do it on our own.Bitcoin banks are just useless and giving out or entrusting to them our bitcoins isnt what i like and i would rather choose to store my bitcoin on my own bitcoin wallet becuase i do have the full control and security of it.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
January 10, 2017, 09:55:59 AM
I think that we do not need it and I also think its impossible, the fact is also that it will be more central and controlling it by yourself will never be the same again.

yeah this is true. it is more easier to control your bitcoin if you just use your bitcoin in your wallet. making banks for it needs a little effort just to get or deposit or something. we just need to choose a trusted bitcoin holder for our bitcoin to be secured.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1179
January 10, 2017, 09:55:14 AM
You don't even consider how many people are willing to store their coins elsewhere just for the free of charge transactions and basic security even if they don't get any interest at all. But, as the proverb goes, a penny saved is a penny gained, so the amount saved on such transactions can well be thought as kind of interest. Though I don't think that all these people using web wallets (here I refer to them obviously) are somehow convinced in the sense you mean it...

Since if you have to transact often with relatively small amounts, that maybe your only viable option
If that's really the case, then certain people are even more pathetic than I was initially thinking.

Look at it how you want, saving on a few thousand satoshis worth of transaction fees is just peanuts. In no way can that be considered whatever form of interest.

But maybe I am not yet fully aware of how stingy/ignorant certain people can really be. Nothing comes free in this world, so even these "free" transaction costs have to be paid in one way or another.
hero member
Activity: 3066
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 10, 2017, 09:40:01 AM
I think that we do not need it and I also think its impossible, the fact is also that it will be more central and controlling it by yourself will never be the same again.

It depends on how you are going to see it. For me, it can be good and it can be bad. It can be good because it means that bitcoin is being recognize by bigger establishments such as banks but it is bad, because that is the time that the freedom of bitcoin will be gone. And that's why we are into bitcoin to avoid paying taxes.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
January 10, 2017, 09:32:27 AM
I think that we do not need it and I also think its impossible, the fact is also that it will be more central and controlling it by yourself will never be the same again.
hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 564
January 10, 2017, 09:26:46 AM
almost average of peopl not agree if bitcoin have a bank,bitcoin bank will kill bitcoin in my opinion,and its will make people stop using bitcoin because bitcoin no more decentralized.
Bank owner will never do this why? First thing is bitcoin has unstable price where people might confuse what bitcoin is . People will keep asking question on the bank owners and support if your just stocking your bitcoin then much better to use web wallets its same your just trying to be difficult on your self if you uses banks. Yes im agree with your banks can kill bitcoin in the future.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
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January 10, 2017, 09:13:40 AM
almost average of peopl not agree if bitcoin have a bank,bitcoin bank will kill bitcoin in my opinion,and its will make people stop using bitcoin because bitcoin no more decentralized.
Yes true, I also do not agree to the existence of the bitcoin bank, with the bitcoin bank certainly will be many rules so that the use of the bitcoin will depend from the bank. We all know, to open an account in the bank required personal data that issued by the country so that it will be the same as conventional bank.
Let's assume a Bitcoin bank will pop up, there will be plenty of people willing to take distance from every decentralized aspect that Bitcoin offers them.

All because they think it's secure and that it will allow them to earn interest over their coins where I think the latter aspect plays the biggest role here.

Reading through this thread it's really mind boggling how easy people are convinced to have their coins stored elsewhere just for a tiny bit of interest after a full year.

You don't even consider how many people are willing to store their coins elsewhere just for the free of charge transactions and basic security even if they don't get any interest at all. But, as the proverb goes, a penny saved is a penny gained, so the amount saved on such transactions can well be thought of as kind of interest. Though I don't think that all these people using web wallets (here I refer to them obviously) are somehow convinced in the sense you mean it...

Since if you have to transact often with relatively small amounts, that may be your only viable option
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
January 10, 2017, 08:52:00 AM
absolutely no. we dont need bitcoin bank because we already our bitcoin wallets. bitcoin wallet is secured and trusted. there are a lot of bitcoin wallets that also serves as our bank. we can also call our bitcoin wallets as bitcoin bank as they both holds and secures our bitcoins. as long as we are secured to our current bitcoin holder we have nothing to worry about creating a more secured holder
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