Topic: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ? - page 79. (Read 142276 times)
I think it is depend on what bitcoin bank offer to us, if there are some benefit of using it which better than current condition I will be agree, but if it just make another centralization, of course I do not agree with it.
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
For it to truly be a "bank" you would need some form of insurance against loss.
In the United States we have the FDIC which insures up to $100,000 of loss on any account.
Until you have some form of insurance that your money can't just suddenly disappear, there really isn't any advantage over just keeping your Bitcoin in a secured wallet.
You may also need to provide some sort of percentage based interest earnings, which means the bank would also need to be giving loans to earn interest for other customers and the operators/ shareholders.
In the United States we have the FDIC which insures up to $100,000 of loss on any account.
Until you have some form of insurance that your money can't just suddenly disappear, there really isn't any advantage over just keeping your Bitcoin in a secured wallet.
You may also need to provide some sort of percentage based interest earnings, which means the bank would also need to be giving loans to earn interest for other customers and the operators/ shareholders.
Yes, that is good idea. when we have disciplinary bitcoin bank, we feel safer while trading or purchasing and we can deposit or withdraw bitcoin as like as FIAT. Now bitcoin is not yet recognised as legal currency for all countries in the world. I expect we will have a true and legal bitcoin banks for bitcoiners.
if banks have the government accept bitcoin will certainly be easier to use bitcoin, and of course security is also ensured. But when the question is bitcoin bank owned by third parties I'm not sure it would be safe
It would be pretty awesome to have a bank where we can deposit bitcoins and withdraw the same and maybe get some interest too on keeping bitcoins there but technically its impossible I think.
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
The point is that people take the term Bitcoin bank far too serious. Never will such services stand up at the same level as banks do. It's simply impossible as governments can't allow anything that they have no control over to be supported. Mainly in current times where they heavily chase black money and financial support for terrorism. Plus the fact that they can't prove who owns what amount in Bitcoin. It adds up. No pro's, but plenty of con's.
Do you have a bank account yourself?
I have a dozen accounts opened for a dozen foreign currencies in just one bank including four unallocated bullion accounts (for gold, platinum, silver and palladium). I can receive, transfer and withdraw any of these currencies (excluding PM accounts, of course). Now tell me how can a local government control any foreign currency (let alone precious metals)? Does it somehow prevent banks from using these currencies as well as precious metals? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised in the least degree if one day the bank offered me to open a Bitcoin account in addition to the host of accounts that I already have
Of course I do have a bank account, several to be more precise. If you transfer whatever foreign currency per bank, then it just gets some numbers changed in the database of your bank and the receiving party. All this happens within the system where they can follow basically every of your steps. That's what I meant with control. As long as that is the case, you can move things as much as you want, but everything is being logged till a point where if something goes wrong, they know where to find you.
Yes, that is good idea. when we have disciplinary bitcoin bank, we feel safer while trading or purchasing and we can deposit or withdraw bitcoin as like as FIAT. Now bitcoin is not yet recognised as legal currency for all countries in the world. I expect we will have a true and legal bitcoin banks for bitcoiners.
For now we can use our wallets in order to keep our bitcoins , There are some bitcoin ATM in our place that i can use in order for me to withdraw and to buy bitcoins but i can store bitcoins there. If bitcoin sill be legal in every countries in the world were bitcoin life will surely be more easier.
Yes, that is good idea. when we have disciplinary bitcoin bank, we feel safer while trading or purchasing and we can deposit or withdraw bitcoin as like as FIAT. Now bitcoin is not yet recognised as legal currency for all countries in the world. I expect we will have a true and legal bitcoin banks for bitcoiners.
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
The point is that people take the term Bitcoin bank far too serious. Never will such services stand up at the same level as banks do. It's simply impossible as governments can't allow anything that they have no control over to be supported. Mainly in current times where they heavily chase black money and financial support for terrorism. Plus the fact that they can't prove who owns what amount in Bitcoin. It adds up. No pro's, but plenty of con's.
Do you have a bank account yourself?
I have a dozen accounts opened for a dozen foreign currencies in just one bank including four unallocated bullion accounts (for gold, platinum, silver and palladium). I can receive, transfer and withdraw any of these currencies (excluding PM accounts, of course). Now tell me how can a local government control any foreign currency (let alone precious metals)? Does it somehow prevent banks from using these currencies as well as precious metals? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised in the least degree if one day the bank offered me to open a Bitcoin account in addition to the host of accounts that I already have
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
The point is that people take the term Bitcoin bank far too serious. Never will such services stand up at the same level as banks do. It's simply impossible as governments can't allow anything that they have no control over to be supported. Mainly in current times where they heavily chase black money and financial support for terrorism. Plus the fact that they can't prove who owns what amount in Bitcoin. It adds up. No pro's, but plenty of con's.
Recently, i often see discussion about Bitcoin Bank. More and more people come here and ask about bitcoin bank & surprisingly i see few user agree with this idea.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
So, i would like to find out the percentage of user who agreed with this idea.
Honestly, i think this idea is stupid and worst idea that i've seen in my life. What do you think?
p.s. we don't talk about bitcoin debit card.
Xapo, Coinbase and Circle, they are all "bitcoin banks", if someone doesn't like them, they don't have to use them...
Yes these are banks but still not regulated by any governments. Basically bank is term which is not suits for such wallets services. Basically they offer buying selling or receiving and sending bitcoins facility.
And as per my opinion Bitcoins is beyond banks.
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons
We should separate the wheat from the chaff
Fiat banks are centralized in a sense of being regulated by the laws passed by governments. A bank which breaks these laws loses their banking license and ceases banking operations. But banks are basically free in respect to how much money they can create (in certain limits, of course). In this way, they are decentralized even higher than Bitcoin miners which can create only as many bitcoins as firmly set by the current mining reward. On the other hand, the whole Bitcoin network is no less regulated than a banking system, I mean by the Bitcoin protocol. Some folks here claim that Bitcoin is even more regulated than any fiat system out there (if you are going to challenge that point, don't attack me since it is not my point)
Yeah mister Cat-Pilot! But can we really separate banking system from its legal regulation? Both seems completely symbiotic don't they?
Bitcoin network is much less regulated than the banking system we know because banking system in our world needs governmental approbation to even exist.
But as you seem to have thought a lot about the question I have a question for you: what would be the point of a bitcoin bank?
I mean, a fiat bank has a very simple purpose, making money, and a simple utility for most of its users: providing a stock and exchange system. Banks were created for that, you use a bank not for the interest rates but because you NEED an account in order to send and receive money, because no company will give you your wage in cash, no government will make it easy for you to pay your taxes with cash, and even if all that was possible you would still want to stock your money in a "safe deposit". Of course interest rates are a plus, but you would use banks even if they had 0% interest rates!
But bitcoin already allow all of that. So what would be the main goal of banks?
I have already answered that question
You seem to misunderstand what a Bitcoin bank would mean in practice. Most likely, it won't be a separate entity like web wallets are now but rather a service offered by regular banks (once they are allowed to make business with Bitcoin). Obviously, such a service could potentially include everything that web wallets are offering nowadays, and in addition to that, banks would offer services which they basically earn money with and which make them different from other financial institutions, for example, by loaning bitcoins at interest protected with real collateral
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons
We should separate the wheat from the chaff
Fiat banks are centralized in a sense of being regulated by the laws passed by governments. A bank which breaks these laws loses their banking license and ceases banking operations. But banks are basically free in respect to how much money they can create (in certain limits, of course). In this way, they are decentralized even higher than Bitcoin miners which can create only as many bitcoins as firmly set by the current mining reward. On the other hand, the whole Bitcoin network is no less regulated than a banking system, I mean by the Bitcoin protocol. Some folks here claim that Bitcoin is even more regulated than any fiat system out there (if you are going to challenge that point, don't attack me since it is not my point)
Yeah mister Cat-Pilot! But can we really separate banking system from its legal regulation? Both seems completely symbiotic don't they?
Bitcoin network is much less regulated than the banking system we know because banking system in our world needs governmental approbation to even exist.
But as you seem to have thought a lot about the question I have a question for you: what would be the point of a bitcoin bank?
I mean, a fiat bank has a very simple purpose, making money, and a simple utility for most of its users: providing a stock and exchange system. Banks were created for that, you use a bank not for the interest rates but because you NEED an account in order to send and receive money, because no company will give you your wage in cash, no government will make it easy for you to pay your taxes with cash, and even if all that was possible you would still want to stock your money in a "safe deposit". Of course interest rates are a plus, but you would use banks even if they had 0% interest rates!
But bitcoin already allow all of that. So what would be the main goal of banks?
Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts
Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?
Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?
Few elements to go a bit further in what you say:
1/ I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise it but if we got 100 million users then 5 millions in Coinbase isn't much
Did I not warn you from distorting facts?
Now you don't even distort them, you actually contrive them and make your speculations look as if they were real facts. The numbers I provided (10M wallets and 4.8M users) are firmly established facts. Though you still reproach me for not taking time to specify the "number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world", but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?
I don't distort anything here!
You say "Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets."
All I'm saying is that you should consider that this number might be a low one! I'm not saying that there are 100 million users so that what you say is wrong, I say that what you say isn't a proof because we don't have anything to compare them that's all.
"but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?"
My "100 million users" part was here just to make it clear for everyone that your figures aren't enough to reach a conclusion. If there are only 20 million users then what you're saying is very true. If there are 100 million users then what you're saying becomes much more arguable. That's very fair from me to put your numbers in perspective but not very fair of you to distort my words making it seems like I'm making an assumption while it was just an example ^^
But maybe I wasn't very clear.
You are not distorting the facts, you are thinking them up
We hardly have over half a million active users in Bitcoin (i.e. those who transact regularly, e.g. once a week). This number is obtained by doubling the number of transactions processed by the network daily (~250k), and it is not my idea (though I agree with it). There simply cannot be so many users as you claim (i.e. 100 million people). Perhaps, the total number of users who have or had at some point in the past a few coins is somewhere around 10 million people altogether. In any case, if you are an active user (say a trader), you will have to use a web-wallet (to save on transaction fees) as well as hold at least part of your funds in your exchange account (if you somehow forget, this is what the discussion is essentially about)
Again no!
I take an example! I literally say "what if we have 100 million users" and I follow this sentence with a clear statement of my ignorance "I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise".
Your demonstration allows us to have an idea of the order of magnitude of the number of bitcoiners which I didn't have.
It means we don't have much more than 10 millions of users so the fact that Coinbase has 5 millions users (though all are not active ones I presume?) is a good point. That's all was saying! That without the number or at least an approximation of the number of btc users around the world your argument wasn't complete.
It is now. And you seem to be right.
No need to be on the defensive like this or to overreact, I was simply putting your argument into perspective
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons
We should separate the wheat from the chaff
Fiat banks are centralized in a sense of being regulated by the laws passed by governments. A bank which breaks these laws loses their banking license and ceases banking operations. But banks are basically free in respect to how much money they can create (in certain limits, of course). In this way, they are decentralized even higher than Bitcoin miners which can create only as many bitcoins as firmly set by the current mining reward. On the other hand, the whole Bitcoin network is no less regulated than a banking system, I mean by the Bitcoin protocol. Some folks here claim that Bitcoin is even more regulated than any fiat system out there (if you are going to challenge that point, don't attack me since it is not my point)
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons
We should separate the wheat from the chaff
Fiat banks are centralized in a sense of being regulated by the laws passed by governments. A bank which breaks these laws loses their banking license and ceases banking operations. But banks are basically free in respect to how much money they can create (in certain limits, of course). In this way, they are decentralized even higher than Bitcoin miners which can create only as many bitcoins as firmly set by the current mining reward. On the other hand, the whole Bitcoin network is no less regulated than a banking system, I mean by the Bitcoin protocol. Some folks here claim that Bitcoin is even more regulated than any fiat system out there (if you are going to challenge that point, don't attack me since it is not my point)
From post to post you seem to be completely discarding the existence of web wallets. You may not like them, but you should accept their existence as well as the fact than many if not most Bitcoin users are actively using them. The two basic reasons are behind that, i.e. security and free of charge transactions. People don't want to get busy with securing their desktops and notebooks, nor do they want to pay transaction fees. In other words, if there weren't such wallets (and no exchanges either, where you still have to keep the funds), the Bitcoin price would mostly likely still be in single digits...
And you will have to admit this
And you will have to admit this
I am not discarding the existence of web wallets, nor am I against them. But it's a fact that a lot people use them as a long term storage solution. That's what I consider to be a wrong thing. I definitely agree that for day to day transactions these web wallets come very handy with small amounts in comparison to system heavy desktop clients, but then in combination with small amounts only, and not where all people's coins sit there doing nothing. It's an unneeded risk people expose themselves to. But they somehow don't seem to realize that. If you look at blockchain.info, then it's a great thing that they supply you with your private keys. In case the site can't be accessed, you can still access your coins. That's not the case with all web wallets, and especially not with exchanges. That's basically what my concern regarding storing coins elsewhere is, and not small amounts that people use on a daily basis for whatever purpose.
Oh, really? I guess you may want to read your post again
I refer to your post which you so wisely excluded from my quote. In that post you basically claim that you "can't think of anyone actually wanting or needing a service to hold their coins". Ain't web wallets which you somehow omitted from mentioning actually proving the opposite and specifically serving that end? Namely, proving that people do not only want or need a service to hold their coins but are in fact already using such a service and most likely in great numbers?
You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.
today there is no bitcoin bank, and no one can be downloaded. bitcoin bank function may be similar to banks in general. You can save and borrow bitcoin in bitcoin bank. but you must be willing identity uncoveredYour own wallet can be good to consider as bitcoin bank. But yea, there is no real bitcoin bank as of now but there is country now which is interested to adopt this type of service, specifically Switzerland.
You can read the article here http://www.coindesk.com/swiss-government-paving-way-bitcoin-blockchain-banks/
Only a small group of people doesn't like to have a bitcoin bank, among them most were highly influential to the technology development. Maximum population were unaware of such currency existence. To make it popular banks will help to promote and spread bitcoin among such people. Even in the form of physical exchange too looks like a good initiative for growth and development of bitcoin.
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons.
You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.
today there is no bitcoin bank, and no one can be downloaded. bitcoin bank function may be similar to banks in general. You can save and borrow bitcoin in bitcoin bank. but you must be willing identity uncoveredYour own wallet can be good to consider as bitcoin bank. But yea, there is no real bitcoin bank as of now but there is country now which is interested to adopt this type of service, specifically Switzerland.
You can read the article here http://www.coindesk.com/swiss-government-paving-way-bitcoin-blockchain-banks/
Only a small group of people doesn't like to have a bitcoin bank, among them most were highly influential to the technology development. Maximum population were unaware of such currency existence. To make it popular banks will help to promote and spread bitcoin among such people. Even in the form of physical exchange too looks like a good initiative for growth and development of bitcoin.
Banking industry is centralized and it defeats the purpose of using bitcoin, let's just admit that we cannot achieve big growth like making majority of people adopt with bitcoin as they certainly would choose the fiat system or any government regulated currency, and that's for security reasons.
Jump to: