Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ? - page 80.

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Quote from: ananas99 on January 06, 2017, 07:53:48 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mornabo on January 06, 2017, 07:10:36 PM

Quote from: Sierra82fit on January 06, 2017, 06:32:00 PM

You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.

today there is no bitcoin bank, and no one can be downloaded. bitcoin bank function may be similar to banks in general. You can save and borrow bitcoin in bitcoin bank. but you must be willing identity uncovered

Your own wallet can be good to consider as bitcoin bank. But yea, there is no real bitcoin bank as of now but there is country now which is interested to adopt this type of service, specifically Switzerland.
You can read the article here http://www.coindesk.com/swiss-government-paving-way-bitcoin-blockchain-banks/

]I myself can manage their money using bitcoin wallets and without any banks. I think that many will agree with me that bitcoin bank is not required and the institution. Bitcoin wallet, and nothing more is needed.

Only a small group of people doesn't like to have a bitcoin bank, among them most were highly influential to the technology development. Maximum population were unaware of such currency existence. To make it popular banks will help to promote and spread bitcoin among such people. Even in the form of physical exchange too looks like a good initiative for growth and development of bitcoin.

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Quote from: mornabo on January 06, 2017, 07:10:36 PM

Quote from: Sierra82fit on January 06, 2017, 06:32:00 PM

You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.

today there is no bitcoin bank, and no one can be downloaded. bitcoin bank function may be similar to banks in general. You can save and borrow bitcoin in bitcoin bank. but you must be willing identity uncovered

Your own wallet can be good to consider as bitcoin bank. But yea, there is no real bitcoin bank as of now but there is country now which is interested to adopt this type of service, specifically Switzerland.
You can read the article here http://www.coindesk.com/swiss-government-paving-way-bitcoin-blockchain-banks/

]I myself can manage their money using bitcoin wallets and without any banks. I think that many will agree with me that bitcoin bank is not required and the institution. Bitcoin wallet, and nothing more is needed.

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Quote from: Positid on January 01, 2017, 09:18:53 AM

Quote from: hajimasan on January 01, 2017, 08:16:31 AM

I am fully disagree with the Bitcoin bank idea . Because if it goes successfully comes then it will destroy the job of many bitcoin trader . In my friends circle many of friends who are trader of bitcoin are in fear to loss job .
Because after comes of bitcoin bank people will make buy directly , and bank will make profit .

Don't worry it will not happen, bank is only for people who like to support a centralized system, bitcoin is the complete opposite, so it's close to impossible.

Could have a third party make a bank for bitcoin users, like a wallet but you need to provide your identity and of course he will control you.
it is free to exist but I'm sure many people will not use it

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Quote from: Sierra82fit on January 06, 2017, 06:32:00 PM

You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.

today there is no bitcoin bank, and no one can be downloaded. bitcoin bank function may be similar to banks in general. You can save and borrow bitcoin in bitcoin bank. but you must be willing identity uncovered

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You need to download to explain exactly what the goal bitcoin banks and what features will perform these banks. After that make modern banking system, no longer wants to have anything to do with them.

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Quote from: hajimasan on January 01, 2017, 08:16:31 AM

I am fully disagree with the Bitcoin bank idea . Because if it goes successfully comes then it will destroy the job of many bitcoin trader . In my friends circle many of friends who are trader of bitcoin are in fear to loss job .
Because after comes of bitcoin bank people will make buy directly , and bank will make profit .

Now, I agree with you, once the bank for bitcoin approved, many traders will lose their job and being just centralize to bank
transactions and buy bitcoin to bank and just let them make profit not like now which traders have free chance to have profit in their own way freely without any big competitor like bank.

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Quote from: Xester on January 06, 2017, 07:46:21 AM

Quote from: Pattart on January 06, 2017, 06:36:30 AM

Quote from: Balle1912 on January 05, 2017, 05:20:33 AM

Only reason to use a 'Bitcoin Bank' is for the security of your funds, there will always be people who need or want this.

I actually think the risk of losing your bitcoin will be even greater when you save your bitcoin into bitcoin bank. because they are a third party of course they could be scam anytime, it's better to use the wallet

Well it isnt necessary a scam, bitcoin banks are more secured than sites hosting web wallets. Bitcoin banks also operates like the online web wallets but the difference is bitcoin banks when hacking occurs will refund our bitcoins. Web wallet hosts when they are hacked, they will just declare that they are hacked but not will not refund your lost coins.

Bitcoin banks is much better than fiat virtual currency banks. With bitcoin banks bitcoin is still decentralized, the banks are just a storage of bitcoins, they will also earn from interest coming from loans. But even though bitcoin is deposited in the banks, the banks still has no control over bitcoin in general.

You can save bitcoin in your wallet for safe keeping, but it is not good to just save it, think about it when you have spare money in the bank what is the best thing to do to make it grow, invest it, so in my opinion I think that you should never think of storing bitcoin in banks even if they do accept it because it kills its value.

Still I agree for the services like bitcoin debit card, we need a third party services yet it never needs to be our traditional central banks.

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Quote from: youdamushi on January 06, 2017, 07:41:49 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 07:26:14 AM

Quote from: youdamushi on January 06, 2017, 07:17:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 06:02:59 AM

Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts

Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?

Few elements to go a bit further in what you say:
1/ I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise it but if we got 100 million users then 5 millions in Coinbase isn't much

Did I not warn you from distorting facts?

Now you don't even distort them, you actually contrive them and make your speculations look as if they were real facts. The numbers I provided (10M wallets and 4.8M users) are firmly established facts. Though you still reproach me for not taking time to specify the "number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world", but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?

I don't distort anything here!

You say "Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets."
All I'm saying is that you should consider that this number might be a low one! I'm not saying that there are 100 million users so that what you say is wrong, I say that what you say isn't a proof because we don't have anything to compare them that's all.

"but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?"
My "100 million users" part was here just to make it clear for everyone that your figures aren't enough to reach a conclusion. If there are only 20 million users then what you're saying is very true. If there are 100 million users then what you're saying becomes much more arguable. That's very fair from me to put your numbers in perspective but not very fair of you to distort my words making it seems like I'm making an assumption while it was just an example ^^

But maybe I wasn't very clear.

You are not distorting the facts, you are thinking them up

We hardly have over half a million active users in Bitcoin (i.e. those who transact regularly, e.g. once a week). This number is obtained by doubling the number of transactions processed by the network daily (~250k), and it is not my idea (though I agree with it). There simply cannot be so many users as you claim (i.e. 100 million people). Perhaps, the total number of users who have or had at some point in the past a few coins is somewhere around 10 million people altogether. In any case, if you are an active user (say a trader), you will have to use a web-wallet (to save on transaction fees) as well as hold at least part of your funds in your exchange account (if you somehow forget, this is what the discussion is essentially about)

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Quote from: Fatanut on January 06, 2017, 05:44:00 AM

Quote from: mastica on January 05, 2017, 04:36:59 PM

We are already our bank of bitcoin and crypto currencies, sure we do use some wallet from some companie, but they havent control over it, they allow the acess and to use and collect their fees, i dont see the point really to get a bitcoin bank, unless they provide interest of 10-20% years from the deposits, but those wont happen. I do like freedom, and i get interest lending or trading or making my sport bets.

That's no different than HYIP sites and other scam investment sites that we have plenty right now. One of the major reasons why bitcoin banks would be a failure because of trust issues. People don't need bitcoin banks and then suddenly someone has spent a huge amount of money to establish one. With the mix of 10-20% increase on your account balance in a year, that would make some people interested but most bitcoiners wouldn't believe them. They would just think that it's just the same HYIP and cloud mining owners taking their business in to the next level.

I do know the rates are hight, buts its something like 1-1.7% monthly, and lets be pratice crypto currencies does change more then those daily, soo it could be possible. Trust is something only a reputable company or bank can try this out, even knowing some people might try those services with low ammount the same way they do with hyip.

About coinbase, im not their client and wont be, sure i do use web wallet to make my investments, blockchain wallet, if they swicth to bank model they will charge to have your bitcoin there, people will find others wallets providers and moove. If you had read well my post you would read 10-20% interest not just 1-2% i believe we already has a way to achieve those using exchanges lending or this forum.

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Quote from: 1Referee on January 06, 2017, 07:36:15 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 05, 2017, 05:53:04 AM

From post to post you seem to be completely discarding the existence of web wallets. You may not like them, but you should accept their existence as well as the fact than many if not most Bitcoin users are actively using them. The two basic reasons are behind that, i.e. security and free of charge transactions. People don't want to get busy with securing their desktops and notebooks, nor do they want to pay transaction fees. In other words, if there weren't such wallets (and no exchanges either, where you still have to keep the funds), the Bitcoin price would mostly likely still be in single digits...

And you will have to admit this

I am not discarding the existence of web wallets, nor am I against them. But it's a fact that a lot people use them as a long term storage solution. That's what I consider to be a wrong thing. I definitely agree that for day to day transactions these web wallets come very handy with small amounts in comparison to system heavy desktop clients, but then in combination with small amounts only, and not where all people's coins sit there doing nothing. It's an unneeded risk people expose themselves to. But they somehow don't seem to realize that. If you look at blockchain.info, then it's a great thing that they supply you with your private keys. In case the site can't be accessed, you can still access your coins. That's not the case with all web wallets, and especially not with exchanges. That's basically what my concern regarding storing coins elsewhere is, and not small amounts that people use on a daily basis for whatever purpose.

Oh, really? I guess you may want to read your post again

I refer to your post which you so wisely excluded from my quote. In that post you basically claim that you "can't think of anyone actually wanting or needing a service to hold their coins". Ain't web wallets which you somehow omitted from mentioning actually proving the opposite and specifically serving that end? Namely, proving that people do not only want or need a service to hold their coins but are in fact already using such a service and most likely in great numbers?

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Quote from: Pattart on January 06, 2017, 06:36:30 AM

Quote from: Balle1912 on January 05, 2017, 05:20:33 AM

Only reason to use a 'Bitcoin Bank' is for the security of your funds, there will always be people who need or want this.

I actually think the risk of losing your bitcoin will be even greater when you save your bitcoin into bitcoin bank. because they are a third party of course they could be scam anytime, it's better to use the wallet

Well it isnt necessary a scam, bitcoin banks are more secured than sites hosting web wallets. Bitcoin banks also operates like the online web wallets but the difference is bitcoin banks when hacking occurs will refund our bitcoins. Web wallet hosts when they are hacked, they will just declare that they are hacked but not will not refund your lost coins.

Bitcoin banks is much better than fiat virtual currency banks. With bitcoin banks bitcoin is still decentralized, the banks are just a storage of bitcoins, they will also earn from interest coming from loans. But even though bitcoin is deposited in the banks, the banks still has no control over bitcoin in general.

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Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 07:26:14 AM

Quote from: youdamushi on January 06, 2017, 07:17:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 06:02:59 AM

Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts

Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?

Few elements to go a bit further in what you say:
1/ I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise it but if we got 100 million users then 5 millions in Coinbase isn't much

Did I not warn you from distorting facts?

Now you don't even distort them, you actually contrive them and make your speculations look as if they were real facts. The numbers I provided (10M wallets and 4.8M users) are firmly established facts. Though you still reproach me for not taking time to specify the "number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world", but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?

I don't distort anything here!

You say "Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets."
All I'm saying is that you should consider that this number might be a low one! I'm not saying that there are 100 million users so that what you say is wrong, I say that what you say isn't a proof because we don't have anything to compare them that's all.

"but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?"
My "100 million users" part was here just to make it clear for everyone that your figures aren't enough to reach a conclusion. If there are only 20 million users then what you're saying is very true. If there are 100 million users then what you're saying becomes much more arguable. That's very fair from me to put your numbers in perspective but not very fair of you to distort my words making it seems like I'm making an assumption while it was just an example ^^

But maybe I wasn't very clear.

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Quote from: deisik on January 05, 2017, 05:53:04 AM

From post to post you seem to be completely discarding the existence of web wallets. You may not like them, but you should accept their existence as well as the fact than many if not most Bitcoin users are actively using them. The two basic reasons are behind that, i.e. security and free of charge transactions. People don't want to get busy with securing their desktops and notebooks, nor do they want to pay transaction fees. In other words, if there weren't such wallets (and no exchanges either, where you still have to keep the funds), the Bitcoin price would mostly likely still be in single digits...

And you will have to admit this

I am not discarding the existence of web wallets, nor am I against them. But it's a fact that a lot people use them as a long term storage solution. That's what I consider to be a wrong thing. I definitely agree that for day to day transactions these web wallets come very handy with small amounts in comparison to system heavy desktop clients, but then in combination with small amounts only, and not where all people's coins sit there doing nothing. It's an unneeded risk people expose themselves to. But they somehow don't seem to realize that. If you look at blockchain.info, then it's a great thing that they supply you with your private keys. In case the site can't be accessed, you can still access your coins. That's not the case with all web wallets, and especially not with exchanges. That's basically what my concern regarding storing coins elsewhere is, and not small amounts that people use on a daily basis for whatever purpose.

deisik

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Quote from: youdamushi on January 06, 2017, 07:17:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 06:02:59 AM

Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts

Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?

Few elements to go a bit further in what you say:
1/ I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise it but if we got 100 million users then 5 millions in Coinbase isn't much

Did I not warn you from distorting facts?

Now you don't even distort them, you actually contrive them and make your speculations look as if they were real facts. The numbers I provided (10M wallets and 4.8M users) are firmly established facts. Though you still reproach me for not taking time to specify the "number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world", but at the same time you yourself continue with a loose assumption that we might have got 100 million Bitcoin users. Why not 1 billion users then? Don't you find it at least not very fair on your part?

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Quote from: deisik on January 06, 2017, 06:02:59 AM

Quote from: mastica on January 05, 2017, 04:36:59 PM

We are already our bank of bitcoin and crypto currencies, sure we do use some wallet from some companie, but they havent control over it, they allow the acess and to use and collect their fees, i dont see the point really to get a bitcoin bank, unless they provide interest of 10-20% years from the deposits, but those wont happen. I do like freedom, and i get interest lending or trading or making my sport bets.

Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts

Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?

Few elements to go a bit further in what you say:
1/ I don't know the number of bitcoiners and wallets around the world. Maybe it's common knowledge so you didn't took the time to precise it but if we got 100 million users then 5 millions in Coinbase isn't much
2/ The main point of bitcoin is to get rid of the fiat system which means that banks in bitcoin aren't impossible. You're right on that.
3/ You can have 5 millions users and 10 millions wallets, the important thing is how much btc you have? Because those wallets are maybe mainly used for small amounts. I, for one, have opened 9 different online wallets while I discovered btc. Today I use only one and i might have something like 20$ on it. My btc aren't here but in (relative) security on my computer, only very small amounts "just in case" are available on my online wallet. There is a difference between creating and using a wallet for 20$ and actually putting your money on it ^^

Btc banks might exist yeah but what would be their points? Main goal of traditional banks is to provide the fiat service. We need them only because we need to be able to receive money on our accounts and send to others and pay. With btc you don't need a bank to do that, so what would be the point of banks?

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I don't agree, because this will certainly limit the use of the bitcoin and the bank will determine or full controlling the price of the bitcoin.

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Quote from: Balle1912 on January 05, 2017, 05:20:33 AM

Only reason to use a 'Bitcoin Bank' is for the security of your funds, there will always be people who need or want this.

I actually think the risk of losing your bitcoin will be even greater when you save your bitcoin into bitcoin bank. because they are a third party of course they could be scam anytime, it's better to use the wallet

deisik

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Quote from: mastica on January 05, 2017, 04:36:59 PM

We are already our bank of bitcoin and crypto currencies, sure we do use some wallet from some companie, but they havent control over it, they allow the acess and to use and collect their fees, i dont see the point really to get a bitcoin bank, unless they provide interest of 10-20% years from the deposits, but those wont happen. I do like freedom, and i get interest lending or trading or making my sport bets.

Let's remain realists and refrain from distorting the facts

Why don't you guys just make a mental effort and think about this a little better? Coinbase alone is reported to have some 4.8 million users and 10.6 million wallets (as declared by the IRS). This basically tells us that many bitcoiners are heavily using web wallets. And I won't be surprised to learn that actually a total majority of bitcoiners are using these services in some way. But web wallets are just one step behind from turning into a Bitcoin bank. So if people are massively using the said wallets, and they are paid essentially nothing (if we don't consider free of charge transactions), what makes you think that a Bitcoin bank offering, say, 1-2% annual interest is impossible and should necessarily be a scam or HYIP?

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Quote from: mastica on January 05, 2017, 04:36:59 PM

We are already our bank of bitcoin and crypto currencies, sure we do use some wallet from some companie, but they havent control over it, they allow the acess and to use and collect their fees, i dont see the point really to get a bitcoin bank, unless they provide interest of 10-20% years from the deposits, but those wont happen. I do like freedom, and i get interest lending or trading or making my sport bets.

That's no different than HYIP sites and other scam investment sites that we have plenty right now. One of the major reasons why bitcoin banks would be a failure because of trust issues. People don't need bitcoin banks and then suddenly someone has spent a huge amount of money to establish one. With the mix of 10-20% increase on your account balance in a year, that would make some people interested but most bitcoiners wouldn't believe them. They would just think that it's just the same HYIP and cloud mining owners taking their business in to the next level.

StevensonCarl

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I think that the bitcoin bank is okay but that we should think about the fact that it would not be good for people that are doing this anonymous..

Topic: Do you agree with idea "Bitcoin bank" ? - page 80. (Read 142276 times)