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Topic: Do you think "iamnotback" really has the" Bitcoin killer"? - page 24. (Read 79971 times)

full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 103
Compare his equation with my math explanation, and you see that Peter's conceptualization employs the average orphan rate for everyone when everyone chooses the same propagation time. The average orphan rate reflects the systemic waste of hashrate due to conflicts over which block to build the next block on. But the key point is that this waste is shared by all miners, so it isn't a cost because the difficulty readjusts commensurately, i.e. the overall profit in the system is determined by the difficulty relative to total block rewards. Peter's conceptual mistake is that it is the relative advantages that miners have over each other that determines relative profitability and this is why the cost of block space doesn't go to 0 when debasement rate goes to 0.

It appears that Peter Rizun has not only acknowledged this issue in his paper but he also made other important caveats as well, such as that the block reward must be some positive value.

Quote
We made three important simplifying assumptions in this paper: (1) we assumed the
probability of orphaning a block was well characterized by a single parameter that represented
the time between when a miner had solved a block and when his solution had been
communicated and accepted by his peers, (2) in Sections 7 to 9, we assumed that this time
parameter had a lower bound, in part, due to the capacity of the channels used to communicate
the solutions and by the coding gain with which they could be compressed, as described by the
Shannon-Hartley theorem, and (3) we ignored the costs a miner bears when he commits
transactions to a block beyond those due to orphaning. These simplifications bring up
questions that deserve further study:

(1) The time it takes to propagate information to the other miners is not in general
constant across the network, while the mempool is largely homogenous. This
suggests that, assuming equal hashing costs, miners who can propagate their block
solutions faster will earn a larger surplus. Relatedly, recent evidence also suggests that
miners may begin mining prior to fully receiving and validating new blocks.
(2) Imagine the existence of a mining cartel, interconnected with high-capacity relay
channels and committed to standardized mempool policies (to facilitate dense
compression of block solutions). Such a cartel could greatly reduce the time required
to propagate solutions to its other members. Do we expect such cartels to form and
what might be their effect?

(3) When a miner accepts a transaction that increases the set of unspent outputs (UTXO),
he takes on a liability equal to the present value of the cost of storing those new
outputs indefinitely far into the future. Is a healthy fee market expected to emerge that
charges users the true cost of expanding Bitcoin’s UTXO set?

We conclude by noting that the analysis presented in this paper breaks down when the
block reward falls to zero.
It suggests that the cost of block space is zero; however, this would
suggest zero hash power, which in turn would suggest that transactions would never be mined
and, paradoxically, that no block space would be produced. Happily, questions about the
post-block reward future can be explored at a leisurely pace, as we have a quarter-century
before it begins to become a reality. Into the distant future then, a healthy transaction fee
market is expected to exist without a block size limit.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Having discussions with anonymous Newbie account is somewhat analogous to getting a blowjob by sticking your dick into a hole in the wall. As Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna to get". Kind of weird when you don't know who or what is sucking your dick.  Tongue




4. Miners. I really don't know why people believe/think it's okay for miners to have power.

That is actually very astute.

They have no power in my OpenShare design. And I am not referring to PoS either.

1. Genius programmers that are also natural leaders ( someone like vitalik ).

That will be the one who improves on Satoshi's solution to the problem of decentralized consensus. No one has yet.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
* delusional
* can't handle insults on the internet without reacting like a toddler would, cries to the moderators when he can't take an insult
* prone to violent threats and outbursts (like a child)
* makes up fantastical stories
* has health problems
* displays a history of making poor decisions
* sexist, ignorant of the world, a bigot

anyone who thinks this mentally unstable impotent man child could ever create anything as complicated as a "Bitcoin killer" is insane

Bet you voted Hillary right?

He's not wrong...

PS. Lock her up
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
* delusional
* can't handle insults on the internet without reacting like a toddler would, cries to the moderators when he can't take an insult
* prone to violent threats and outbursts (like a child)
* makes up fantastical stories
* has health problems
* displays a history of making poor decisions
* sexist, ignorant of the world, a bigot

anyone who thinks this mentally unstable impotent man child could ever create anything as complicated as a "Bitcoin killer" is insane

Bet you voted Hillary right?
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
You guys need to stop worrying. Pretty much EVERYONE is working at 60-70% capacity in modern capitalist society and that is what you are talking about. Working all day in a job you dont like its tiring. Everyone around me is sluggish, including myself. Life is a constant struggle except for the rich enjoying their wealth in a constant vacation, the few that don't have problems have elite genetics.
The only thing we can aim to is to get rich to have a more relaxed lifestyle but that's really hard....

The current order of the world is fracturing.

We were promised a Utopian, socialist dream and now people are starting to realize that you'd have to be asleep to believe it.

Possibly we can actually do something about that. We can at least set lofty goals can't we? I was trying to compose some internal notes tonight about project plans:

I don't see why would anybody use Ethereum instead of Bitcoin.

Because you can build all the experimental smart contract ICO tokenized apps on ETH. So many of them in the pipeline now. Ethereum is possibly winning the race for developer mindshare.

Right now we claim that none of these apps will ever get any real world adoption, but we forget the speculators are the users. And now the developers are the users. Programmers matter A LOT.

I don't think Ethereum's technical design and ICO model is the best possible one, but there is nothing shipping now (or about to ship this month) which is unarguably better in app developer mindshare.

Who is in second place? Bitcoin or Steem?

And one or more of those ETH apps may end up causing a mania again. May not happen, but the chance of happening is one of the reasons to hold ETH.



Re: BitBay Decentralized Marketplace. Discussion.

I like Zimbeck. He appears to have very high ethics.

But (at least in terms of adoption by app users) I am betting against apps with their own tokens running by themselves as a viable model (but as you know I am biased as I am working on an app platform project). You've got to be part of something bigger such as an app store in order to get economies-of-scale.

But he can try making Bitbay an app on platform with many apps and more economies-of-scale.

I might be incorrect in my understanding and expectation. Let's see what transpires. Just adding my opinion here. (I hedged against my own project by diversifying a little bit of BTC into ETH which is an ICO app platform)

Also it seems projects are more about speculator delusion than actual user adoption (unless speculators trading are considered the users).



@dinofelis, I don't want to get into another debate with you right now, but I intend to prove with a real project that you are conflating a BDFL with decentralization of the four classes of actors. You are stuck on this theme that decentralization is only useful for dark markets and I intend to prove that the mainstream of society needs decentralization. The Internet is decentralization. I posit that Google and Facebook are about to be disrupted. Expending too much time and effort on words isn't as useful as working to make a real experiment. Btw, I do agree the ideal is that influence/power of the BDFL should wane and the paradigm should run decentralized autonomously and I think this may be possible. But all the scaling issues have to be worked out. Satoshi added the 1MB limit after he had already released Bitcoin. He hadn't worked out of all the scaling issues. His work was incomplete.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 251
JavaScript applications consume too much resources like memory and cryptocurrency is not a light type of software. Some months will pass and you will see how node can't be run on an average computer.

Research roughly approximates that GC requires 5X the memory of explict memory allocation to achieve the same performance, 3X to lose only 17% performance, and 2X to lose 70% performance.

However as I had explained in a discussion with @jl777 last year, we can code in JavaScript with explicit memory allocation by employing an ArrayBuffer heap as Emscripten does for transpiling C to JavaScript and with certain compile-time semantics other optimizations may be possible.

Also explicit refcounting has performance tradeoffs also.



This thread is turing into a virtual hospital bed for the sick and confused.

If you were suffering from chronic illness you might understand why the desperation and speaking out occurs. It isn't really on topic but it don't wish anyone to remain chronically ill. I don't know what to tell these guys other than try find competent medical testing. I wish I had better suggestions. Feeling fatigued, unwell, and dizzy (unable to concentrate, etc) is not a nice condition to be for years and years (and I'm even experiencing this tonight so I can relate again). When not feeling well, get more sleep. Stay off the computer and get more sunshine. Exercise intensely. Eat right. If you haven't tried those lifestyle changes, then you need to STFU. If all that hasn't worked, then my only suggestion is find a way to get competent, first-world medical testing and diagnosis. I have no extra resources to help anyone financially at this time.

I hope we can stay on topic.


Dude the guy above 'thinks' he has had cancer for the last 10 years.....and hasn't. You want me to feel compassion for him while at the same time I suffer from two conditions that would devastate the average person. Its only semi-relevant in your case in terms of lack of production otherwise users health condition is almost irrelevant here on this forum. Should people post their relationship issues here? Should people post their sexual deviances here? Go to Curezone if you are after health advice.
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1006
Also I also feel better at night, I actually feel good and more lucid, in the morning im sloppy, after I have breakfast I feel like going to sleep again, bad cold tolerance etc. At night is great. If I knew how to code I would code at night and I could get shit done, but I can't code cause my brain is good at music and artistic stuff but I was always bad at stuff that requires the sort of attention and logic that good coders have.
I think it might me about cortisol levels or whatever. I can't get much done cause I don't have the money I would need to do proper research. At least I feel ok at night. I might try forcing myself to go to sleep earlier for a period and wake up early and get some morning sun and see what happens. Maybe I fucked up my circadian rhythm due staying up late too much and this has an impact on thyroid, cold tolerance etc... after I do this then I will get some labs done again, get TSH, t4, t3, reverse t3, antibodies, iron levels, and some other hormones, and a 24hour urine test with cortisol free and total, 17 ketosteroids...+ a couple saliva samples for a proper cortisol curve and see if this changed anything. If there is no positive adaptation and I see no improvement in the morning and cold tolerance then I will have to look deeper, adjust thyroid meds and whatnot. I also got a test where they look at hairs and see mineral levels and toxic levels with inconclusive results. The problem is, it is very difficult to find a dr that can interpret such results and follow your case by step and get involved, and if you do then you need to have a lot of money which I don't. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, my case is not that bad, most people have sluggish thyroids nowadays, I would like to have better cold tolerance and better mornings but having optimal health is pretty difficult because healthcare drs usually will not take a case like mine serious so you need to find and and pay a good one.

Manage your symptoms as best you can and continue to accumulate wealth, and eventually you'll have the resources to attack your health problem properly.

That your digestive system is in involved seems to indicate immune system involvement, thus I really think you should test also for infections and viruses, such as Epstein-Barr, Syphilis, etc... I think toxins are very unlikely the cause. It is much more likely to be a pathogen or cancer. One of your parathyroid glands (size of a grain of rice) can be defective and might need to be removed (you have 2 backups I think).

Get a CT scan also to look for tumors all over. Cancer can mess up our endocrine system. Might even be benign.

So many possibilities. You need a research hospital.

I understand why you want to mention it (so many times I did on these forums), because I know how frustrating it is to be handicapped by chronic fatigue and you'd prefer to do action but when you can't you can only communicate that you can't. I do agree let's try not to derail the thread. I understand somewhat what you are going through. You've just got to stay focused on the goal. Grind through it. Try to keep yourself occupied and as productive as you can.

P.S. my production is improving and I have only 8 more days (including today) on the intensive 4 drug regimen. I was hopeless for years, and I can't even describe all the daily suffering, but somehow I stayed focused on doing whatever I could do to work myself towards eventually finding a cure. I don't think anyone who hasn't been suffering on a daily basis can actually know what you feel. You really have to experience it in order to really empathize.

i feel tired and i have been paranoid about having cancer for more than 10 years

How can I guarantee that i dont have cancer? i hate being always paranoid about it

im also young still on my late 20s

its not so bad sort of what the jaytiesto said, just tiredness feeling  you are not at 100% but still annoying

And now i feel stressed about the hard fork, i have a lot of money invested in bitcoin and i dont know what to do

You guys need to stop worrying. Pretty much EVERYONE is working at 60-70% capacity in modern capitalist society and that is what you are talking about. Working all day in a job you dont like its tiring. Everyone around me is sluggish, including myself. Life is a constant struggle except for the rich enjoying their wealth in a constant vacation, the few that don't have problems have elite genetics.
The only thing we can aim to is to get rich to have a more relaxed lifestyle but that's really hard....

Hard fork issue: I haven't sold a single BTC yet, will keep holding and see what happens.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
JavaScript applications consume too much resources like memory and cryptocurrency is not a light type of software. Some months will pass and you will see how node can't be run on an average computer.

Research roughly approximates that GC requires 5X the memory of explict memory allocation to achieve the same performance, 3X to lose only 17% performance, and 2X to lose 70% performance.

However as I had explained in a discussion with @jl777 last year, we can code in JavaScript with explicit memory allocation by employing an ArrayBuffer heap as Emscripten does for transpiling C to JavaScript and with certain compile-time semantics other optimizations may be possible.

Also explicit refcounting has performance tradeoffs also.



This thread is turing into a virtual hospital bed for the sick and confused.

We need a decentralized version of this:

http://health.stackexchange.com/

So the best I can do is put all my effort into making OpenShare a reality.

If you were suffering from chronic illness you might understand why the desperation and speaking out occurs. It isn't really on topic but it don't wish anyone to remain chronically ill. I don't know what to tell these guys other than try find competent medical testing. I wish I had better suggestions. Feeling fatigued, unwell, and dizzy (unable to concentrate, etc) is not a nice condition to be for years and years (and I'm even experiencing this tonight so I can relate again). When not feeling well, get more sleep. Stay off the computer and get more sunshine. Exercise intensely. Eat right. If you haven't tried those lifestyle changes, then you need to STFU. If all that hasn't worked, then my only suggestion is find a way to get competent, first-world medical testing and diagnosis. I have no extra resources to help anyone financially at this time.

I hope we can stay on topic.

Dude the guy above 'thinks' he has had cancer for the last 10 years.....and hasn't. You want me to feel compassion for him while at the same time I suffer from two conditions that would devastate the average person. Its only semi-relevant in your case in terms of lack of production otherwise users health condition is almost irrelevant here on this forum. Should people post their relationship issues here? Should people post their sexual deviances here? Go to Curezone if you are after health advice.

I understand. It isn't my thread, so I can't moderate it. I wasn't trying to demonize you. But the issue is that chronic fatigue can be very debilitating. I wasn't focused on the cancer word, rather focused on his feeling of helplessness and frustration. I didn't realize so many people suffered physically. I was so lucky to have elite level genes and health for most of my life until I apparently got infected with disease due to my travails in the Philippines. So at least I can say it was partially my fault for leaving the relatively good public health environment of the USA. Some of you all are perhaps suffering from conditions that were not due to any mistake you made. I empathize.

Now I agree let's try to stay on topic.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 251
This thread is turing into a virtual hospital bed for the sick and confused.
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
Also I also feel better at night, I actually feel good and more lucid, in the morning im sloppy, after I have breakfast I feel like going to sleep again, bad cold tolerance etc. At night is great. If I knew how to code I would code at night and I could get shit done, but I can't code cause my brain is good at music and artistic stuff but I was always bad at stuff that requires the sort of attention and logic that good coders have.
I think it might me about cortisol levels or whatever. I can't get much done cause I don't have the money I would need to do proper research. At least I feel ok at night. I might try forcing myself to go to sleep earlier for a period and wake up early and get some morning sun and see what happens. Maybe I fucked up my circadian rhythm due staying up late too much and this has an impact on thyroid, cold tolerance etc... after I do this then I will get some labs done again, get TSH, t4, t3, reverse t3, antibodies, iron levels, and some other hormones, and a 24hour urine test with cortisol free and total, 17 ketosteroids...+ a couple saliva samples for a proper cortisol curve and see if this changed anything. If there is no positive adaptation and I see no improvement in the morning and cold tolerance then I will have to look deeper, adjust thyroid meds and whatnot. I also got a test where they look at hairs and see mineral levels and toxic levels with inconclusive results. The problem is, it is very difficult to find a dr that can interpret such results and follow your case by step and get involved, and if you do then you need to have a lot of money which I don't. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread, my case is not that bad, most people have sluggish thyroids nowadays, I would like to have better cold tolerance and better mornings but having optimal health is pretty difficult because healthcare drs usually will not take a case like mine serious so you need to find and and pay a good one.

Manage your symptoms as best you can and continue to accumulate wealth, and eventually you'll have the resources to attack your health problem properly.

That your digestive system is in involved seems to indicate immune system involvement, thus I really think you should test also for infections and viruses, such as Epstein-Barr, Syphilis, etc... I think toxins are very unlikely the cause. It is much more likely to be a pathogen or cancer. One of your parathyroid glands (size of a grain of rice) can be defective and might need to be removed (you have 2 backups I think).

Get a CT scan also to look for tumors all over. Cancer can mess up our endocrine system. Might even be benign.

So many possibilities. You need a research hospital.

I understand why you want to mention it (so many times I did on these forums), because I know how frustrating it is to be handicapped by chronic fatigue and you'd prefer to do action but when you can't you can only communicate that you can't. I do agree let's try not to derail the thread. I understand somewhat what you are going through. You've just got to stay focused on the goal. Grind through it. Try to keep yourself occupied and as productive as you can.

P.S. my production is improving and I have only 8 more days (including today) on the intensive 4 drug regimen. I was hopeless for years, and I can't even describe all the daily suffering, but somehow I stayed focused on doing whatever I could do to work myself towards eventually finding a cure. I don't think anyone who hasn't been suffering on a daily basis can actually know what you feel. You really have to experience it in order to really empathize.

i feel tired and i have been paranoid about having cancer for more than 10 years

How can I guarantee that i dont have cancer? i hate being always paranoid about it

im also young still on my late 20s

its not so bad sort of what the jaytiesto said, just tiredness feeling  you are not at 100% but still annoying

And now i feel stressed about the hard fork, i have a lot of money invested in bitcoin and i dont know what to do
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
That said, I'm losing faith in decentralized systems.  I think after all that Sun Tsu was right: the army that wins is the one that obeys its commander:

Quote
The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

I can only think of small scale niche communities with a higher desire for decentralization than for benefit.

The Internet is a counter example. The mass media centralization was defeated by the Internet. Facebook and Google are next to be defeated (along with StackExchange! grrrr)

My decentralization design is to bring the Linus' law (given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow) Internet model to consensus systems. This in theory inverts the economics lamented by the following:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=984
http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/#example-2-delegated-proof-of-stake-dpos

I had some initial doubts about my system (as I was writing it down and thinking it all out) because the choke point is who controls which clients the users download, but the Internet has proven (e.g. BitTorrent) there is no such choke point. So I think I have the solution we need, but peer review will be nice. I'd love peer review right now, but then Ethereum would just adopt it and all my reward would be lost.

Don't expect a perfect nirvana design. There is no such absolute nirvana. Expect something along the lines of the innovation of the Internet. It won't make everything perfect, but hopefully it will change everything.


I need to go back into the programming cave...






It has been proven that Steem was a vile rigged pyramid scheme coin and yet Shelby gladly participated and was not long ago posting Steem links around the forum here.. for profit $$$

I was able to cash out ~$6000 of earnings from blogging on Steem (which has sustained me during this years when I was ill with disseminated Tuberculosis and didn't even know which illness I had), which also dovetailed with my research about decentralization. So it was very productive use of my time. Also I still hold 5421 STEEM as a hedge against if Steem actually got their head-out-of-their-ass and promoted their scaling advantages (which are superior to both Dash and Ethereum).

You are still on ignore (not because I dislike you as a human being actually you are often cordial, but because you violated all your own principles by going easy on Dash recently and because you waste my very scarce time with the frequent defense against your ad hominem attacks about actions, motives, etc ... so it is more productive if I don't even know what you are writing about me), but I saw someone quoted your comment in another thread, where you made this same accusation against me.

Most of us are here for a combination of profit and trying to appeal to our idealism about decentralization. Most of us are losing some of our enthusiasm about whether decentralization can really be obtained. But the Internet should be our inspirational example, that maybe it can be achieved. The YUGE distinction is that the Internet is not a total ordering and consensus is. So that is where the centralization always creeps in (via economies-of-scale).

I am not just working on decentralization of consensus systems. My work also includes improvements to the JavaScript ecosystem designing a new transpiler for an improved mainstream programming language. I continue to try to generate value for humanity and earn a living while doing so. I reject your Communism.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
I agree with you concerning ETH.  I don't like it because it is centralized.  I was fond of it because of its smart contract notion, until I understood the ridiculous and unnecessary disaster of Turing Completeness in such things.  But you are 150% right.  ETH has a lot going for it in the greater-fool market.  (but DASH too - I won't touch it with a stick even though I know I could make a fortune with it - I'm not interested in making a fortune for very evil personal reasons ; I'm only interested in living the good life I'm living right now).

That said, I'm losing faith in decentralized systems.  I think after all that Sun Tsu was right: the army that wins is the one that obeys its commander:

Quote
The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

I can only think of small scale niche communities with a higher desire for decentralization than for benefit.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
Simply ridiculous.  By the time his equilibrium is reached, nobody has a copy of the bloc chain any more except for the miners with their 100 GB/s links between them.  And they won't have any transactions to put in their blocs.

This is not a PoW system any more, but a Proof of network link.

That was an important insight. Thanks. And it is exacerbated by the fact that the network hashrate and propagation is not equally distributed, thus it gets much worse for everyone but the winner-take-all cartel, until the kill-the-network (shoot myself in the foot) "equilibrium" is never reached because with 51% they can set any fee the market will bear. And at 33% they are already selfish mining (possibly disguised as slower propagating large blocks) which means their cartel is gaining more than their proportional share of the rewards (because they waste less hashrate than the rest of the network because they see their block solutions instantly) thus 51% is inevitable as they plow greater profits into faster growing hashrate than the rest of the network (as well the rest of the network is incentivized to join the cartel and accept signed reputation on blocks to get instant propagation time for even large blocks).

Bottom line ultimate result is a winner-take-all monopoly on setting the transaction fees as high as the market will bear. The power vacuum will be filled by cartel, whether it is the bankster controlled Core or a new (Chinese controlled?) cartel run by Ver and Wu, same centralized stench either way. The difference is that we will have loads of chaos while Bitcoin Unlimited goes through that break-their-back phase of the non-cartel miners in order to consolidate 51% control.

At least SegWit can give us Lightning Networks which is good for hype about enabling instant transaction scaling. And Ethereum is about to beat Bitcoin to market with this scaling feature! While Rome burns on a stupid fight over which cartel will control Bitcoin. Bitcoin Unlimited has to keep all transactions on chain which means no instant transactions and as I pointed out before, Roger Ver has technological myopia about the security of 0-confirmation transactions.

Folks Satoshi's PoW is broken and it can't be fixed. You are hereby forewarned that something new will be required. But no one has yet shown what can scale up decentralized. None of the other altcoins shit does either, and I have analyzed it all in very great detail.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
The hypothesis is that as we increase the block size to accomodate more transactions, then the orphan rate increases due to higher block propagation time across the network of nodes (and that time t is in the equation for the orphan rate). Thus we say there would be an equilibrium point at which the level of transaction fees the market would bear meets the cost in wasted hashrate. That is Peter R's (and Bitcoin Unlimited's) thesis (in their whitepaper).

That's kind of ridiculous, indeed.  Fees drop like a stone when you relieve market pressure, much much earlier than when orphaning rate through network propagation becomes a worry for miners.  It can only happen when network propagation times start to be of the order of the bloc times, at which point, the network becomes totally useless, because if you saturate the HIGH SPEED links between miner pools with blocs, no normal user can ever hope to download the bloc chain.

If you get orphaning because propagation delays between miners is of the order of 10 minutes to get ONE BLOC through, you can forget downloading the whole chain on your PC with a lesser link through a P2P network.

Simply ridiculous.  By the time his equilibrium is reached, nobody has a copy of the bloc chain any more except for the miners with their 100 GB/s links between them.  And they won't have any transactions to put in their blocs.

This is not a PoW system any more, but a Proof of network link.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 629
So with a block period (aka block time) λ of 10 minutes and a propagation time t (for finding a second block) of less than 6 seconds (and propagation will usually be less than 600 milliseconds so that is even a more linear relationship at  ¹/₁₀₀₀), then presuming roughly (on average) that doubling the block size doubles both the transaction fees and the propagation time, then the miner has the same income on average with the largest possible block they can make because doubling the risk of another miner finding a block also doubles the miner's income per block statically speaking.

Doubling the block size (and propagation time) won't double your orphaning risk in most cases. It all depends on the block time. For example, if you increase the current block size from 1 to 2mb, your risk of orphaning would only be slightly higher as propagation time would remain well below the 10 minutes block time.

Neither the total fees nor the orphaning risk are proportional to block size (and propagation time).


Well, if everybody is using the default strategy to start mining on the longest chain from the moment of reception, then the systemic orphaning rate IS proportional to the propagation delay, because it is ONLY during this time that a miner might not be aware of a new bloc, finding an old bloc, and propagate it too, making his bloc an orphaned one.

This can be different if people have different strategies, such as selfish mining.

I personally don't believe that the selfish mining strategy makes sense.  It makes sense if you also have influence over network propagation delay, and if there is a race condition between your selfish mined bloc and the public bloc, but if every miner is directly connected with a link with EVERY other miner of significance (which is, I think, a mutually optimal design: full mesh between miners of significance), then the selfish mining strategy can't work: you ONLY know that you have to publish your secret chain when you *received* a good bloc from the others, but at that point, ALL OTHERS received it too, and you will be too late with your chain.

"flooding other nodes" doesn't make sense, because of course, you have parallel equipment to each of your co miners' links and the only thing you do is flooding your own gateway, not impeding other gateways from other miners to your peer.

Selfish mining only makes sense in a node network with variable propagation, but that is not the mutually optimal mining configuration, which is direct links between all pools of significance (say, 10, that makes 90 links).

BTW, of course, within the group of 10, they could collude and decide to keep the bloc chain they've made, secret for half an hour or so.  Which is the principle of selfish mining.   But I don't see the point.   They could just systematically orphan all blocks they receive from the outside network too, much easier.

sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
I want to put my head back in the sand because all this posting is useless. I will just say this is the reason I won't try to create a non-aggregate market, so don't expect any pumps coming from me (and market pricing moves in anything I create will come from agggregate demand):

In order for it to dump, someone must own a lot of Dash. Does anyone own a lot except insiders?

it won't be dumped.  BU will soon be created, DASH will be the first choice to put their money into and the more you have right now the more profit you get. thats what you get when you join dash this time and not a year after. because by then, you'd be buying dash 5x more than what is it today.

More likely is PIVX at $2-5. Most everyone can afford a masternode at 10-20 cents a coin and you don't have to reward a few instaminers.

The Dash pyramid scheme will continue to have an advantage in FOMO over any aggregate freer market, until the base of the pyramid can't grow fast enough to allow the earlier buyers to cash out:

Your debunking of DASH didn't stop the market from appreciating it.

Dash doesn't have a market. It is allegedly a couple of guys working for Evan Inc. running accounts at the major exchanges buying and selling from themselves. It is a greater fool pyramid scheme.

You even stated that no one with large size dared tried to enter that market without a deal with Evan Inc.. So that tells you Roger Ver is in bed with the alleged "fraud" (aka dis-aggregate non-market) or he didn't buy much Dash.

Well it is a well defined analysis, isn't all crypto is structured that way?  People who are the first one to adopt the coins take profit from the next wave who will buy their coins and so on and so forth?  And indeed it is the FOMO that push this Dash buyer to buy more Dash because they probably think Dash will equal 1 BTC or rather even price more than BTC.

The difference is when the float is so extremely concentrated in just a few hands, then they can paint the market prices which ever direction they want them to go. This is known as a non-aggregate market.

Did you see the compounding math advantage on earlier and larger capitalized masternodes? Evan Inc. has probably ~80+% of the money supply by now.

The small float concept works well to draw in the greater fools, and the masternode concept to keep recycling the sold coins back to yourself. It is quite ingenuous. I read Evan worked before in Wallstreet or in investment finance. I guess he learned the tricks they use.

Roger Ver probably got paid off because he brought legitimacy and publicity needed to feed more greater fools into the FOMO spiral.

Hey I am done. I promised @qwizzie a truce. I have no bone in this fight. I don't care because his plan only works against greedy fools (of which the majority will be left holding the empty bag at the end), it isn't a mass market paradigm. As I state before, the caveat is if they could somehow actually spend some of that money to do outstanding R&D but really their technology has sucked up to now and there is no reason to assume any really great devs would be motivated to work for such a pyramid scheme. Great devs don't work just for money, they also want to impact the world in a positive way.


There is a cost to painting the market and constricting the float and milking the greater fools in a pyramid. It means your ecosystem will always be fake and have no real viral growth. All of Dash's ecosystem is some fools regurgitating technological lies, not actually millions of developers changing the world as the Internet is doing as we speak.
full member
Activity: 149
Merit: 103
You are not paying attention to the math. I wasn't writing about doubling the systemic orphan rate.
I didn't mean the systemic orphan rate but the risk that your block as an individual miner wouldn't make it into the chain.

But you're right that my last two posts aren't coherent. I just realized my error after fact and didn't want to delete the whole post.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 265
So with a block period (aka block time) λ of 10 minutes and a propagation time t (for finding a second block) of less than 6 seconds (and propagation will usually be less than 600 milliseconds so that is even a more linear relationship at  ¹/₁₀₀₀), then presuming roughly (on average) that doubling the block size doubles both the transaction fees and the propagation time, then the miner has the same income on average with the largest possible block they can make because doubling the risk of another miner finding a block also doubles the miner's income per block statically speaking.

Doubling the block size (and propagation time) won't double your orphaning risk in most cases. It all depends on the block time. For example, if you increase the current block size from 1 to 2mb, your risk of orphaning would only be slightly higher as propagation time would remain well below the 10 minutes block time.

Neither the total fees nor the orphaning risk are proportional to block size (and propagation time).

You are not paying attention to the math. I wasn't writing about doubling the systemic orphan rate. Please no offense but your last two posts are somewhat incoherent (although I didn't read carefully every single point just a couple and realized I don't have time to unravel it all for you) and sorry if I don't have time to convince you.
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