Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 161. (Read 734725 times)

Provide a link to a *.UA website where the actual claim was made. And then prove that it wasn't planted by Russian opposition.

16 august 2008

Very easy. Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YFBsXZJZpw
http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA4LzI4L2ExL1VrcmFpbmVNYXJpLmMyZTEzLmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/bf071b3d/a3a/Ukraine-Mariupol-02.jpg
http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA4LzI4L2ExL1VrcmFpbmVNYXJpLjMyY2Q4LmpwZwpwCXRodW1iCTEyMDB4OTYwMD4/2991ecbc/52a/Ukraine-Mariupol-03.jpg
http://www.kyivpost.com/media/images/2014/08/29/p190gavq6n3td1a2k31n9o1s504/big.jpg

If majority of Mariupol wanted to join with the separatists, they would be the ones protesting, or just plain joining to begin with. Doesn't it bother you that all these big cities have to be "taken over" by separatists, instead of them just willingly joining them?

If you live in Russia, that's something you would be expected to believe. In Europe and US, we have some media that we know are lying and spreading propaganda, and some media that pride themselves on telling the truth, and actually compete against other media by exposing their propaganda. For instance, MSNBC often points out and debunks lies reported by Fox News, and in UK, BBC often points out and debunks lies reported by The Daily Mail and other propaganda news sources. There is a competition here for who can disprove the other's lies first, and present itself as the only truthful source you should listen to.

What are the competing media sources in Russia? When RT is owned by the government, and most other media sources are also owned by the government, or are heavily influenced by them, who is there to try to debunk RT?

I like these untenable statements. How did you measure this?

You've twisted my words. I didn't claim it the way you're trying to show. I didn't mean Russia exclusively, I meant all media. They are all lying and spreading propaganda, just on different scales and to different beneficiaries.
The second sentence is a bit naive, but here in Russia people also don't like feeding them bullshit.

So it's ok for you that neo-nazis participate in official elections, that they are operating freely, have guns? In fact, they are nazi gangs.

Don't you think that in a civilized country they should be outlawed and fought against?

Crimes of Ukrainian Aidar battalion confirmed in Amnesty Int’l report - Russia
http://rt.com/news/186576-ukraine-battalion-war-crimes/

Why not? The majority of the people in that city obviously want to stay with Ukraine. Do you want NAF to forcefully take it over and force the people to be a part of Russia (Novorussia)? Wouldn't that make the NAF just as bad as the evil Ukrainian junta?

So you admin that in Russia, media no longer "in any way relates to truth," and that "truth doesn't have anything to do with media?" Good to know, since that's what we've been claiming all along. Here in "the west," out media still tries to present the truth, and is shamed when it gets caught lying.

The NAF has retreated from the village of Chervonepole, thereby lifting the siege of Mariupol. I just hope that the Kiev junta does not use this opportunity to move more troops and hardware to that city.

Brilliant propaganda. Starts with a bold statement, then tries to prove it by talking about non-related stuff. Suggesting that media in any way relates to truth is naive at best.
There's strong propaganda, but in no way you can draw a conclusion that "in today’s Russia, the idea of truth is irrelevant". The idea of truth doesn't have anything to do with media and propaganda.

Don't forget that Dmytro Yarosh got 0.7% of the vote in Ukraine, and is opposed by the majority of Ukrainians, thus is very unlikely to be supported by the currently ruling party in Ukraine. And if the government supports him or his ideas in any way, Ukrainians have already demonstrated their ability to kick out corrupt politicians at least twice.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/09/russian-channel-ntv-demonizes-right-sector/
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/09/dmytro-yarosh-strategic-plan-for-the-general-population/

Right Sector is a known neo-nazi organisation and they are supported by the Ukrainian government. They don't even hide it, using symbles like the Wolves Angle and the black red flag, which were used by nazi's in WWII. Their leader is Dmytro Yarosh who said that the Ukrainian government is riddled with traitors in the second article and the people should take a stand against them. Guess it's hard to keep a good nazi in line.

you see this is where you are wrong. studying non-politically motivated historical accounts a little better can easily fix that.
russians (as well as other nations within ussr) are also the victims of communist ideology which been imposed onto them from abroad (in fact from thinkers in great britain - the only monarchy left standing after ww1). then after coup that toppled czar in process foreign secret services (mostly british) organised a takeover of petrograd (now st piterburg) with introduction of communist ideology as a main sell point for confused and mislead public. trocki came from britain where he was trained. lenin came from switzerland together with paid international mercenaries and idea driven european communists (mostly ethnical jews). then to take the rest of the country the red army was established which was guided by the secret services and heavily sponsored by the wall street capital. once they won the war total destruction, theft, corruption and holodomor came to further break the country and extract wealth from it for western capital. mass murder became norm and huge citizen imprisonments followed, concentration camps were created, hunger etc. when stalin started to fight back for sovereignty he only managed to achieve that after 15 years walking along razor's edge exterminating the fifth column (or anyone related to it) - it was the only way, too much was being put at stake and too little time to achieve that. he was brutal man, but considering the circumstances he did manage to achieve the independence from the bankers

after the final purges of 37-38. by the way stalin wasnt even marksist - its believed he had very tight links with few of the remaining generals loyal to czar within military who seen stalin as the only solution to save russia from globalists. when bankers realised that they lost the strings to pull inside ussr, plan b had to be implemented and unleash hitler dog on stalin. as a result of ww2 brits completely exhausted themselves and pound sterling lost its reserve status to be passed onto usd and carry on the fight into cold war following the bretton woods.......

...so as you can see the fight goes on. for better or worse time will tell. but after losing cold war and total collapse and pillage of russia thought nineties people refuse to be defeated. they have the right to fight for their independence from russian/zionist oligarchy & international globalists. the reason putin is so popular now is because he is the only straw that russians have to save themselves - and results are already very clear. he was placed there by the globalists but he cheated them over and created his own patriotic ideology which is by the way extremely democratic and fair. the reason why ukraine is suffering still is because the oligarchy has completely exhausted the soviet inheritance and draind everything they could off the people without putting anything back into the system. the zionist oligarchs which are the most powerful entities in ukraine are the ones controlling the mass media and poisoning ukrainians even abroad....

Well-said.