Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 158. (Read 734937 times)

In 1914 Saint Petersburg was renamed to Petrograd. Do you know the reasons? So don't be surprised that the Russian language will be officially banned one day. In fact, when Maidan took over and Yanukovich had to run to Russia, one of the first plans of the new powers in Kiev was to ban Russian...

Because the Russian government/military invaded their country and is shooting at their military. Is that not a good enough reason?

You are looking at it as a static system, but it's also important to consider flows and rate of development. Every arbitrary unit that is traded internationally (a transaction occurs where something is exported and something is imported) can be expected to be produce side benefits. Side benefits such as technological development and infrastructure (e.g.: factories are built) that reduces future production costs.

If Europe is stagnating, while Russia is growing, that would suggest that Russia has more to lose from artificial trade barriers. Stagnation implies a relative reduction in efficiency, approaching subsistence level. Whereas rapid growth implies that there exists relatively less infrastructure. Therefore, Europe's pain would be being forced to improve the efficiency of their existing factories. Russia's pain would be trying to build new factories with no money and no hardware.

I asked you a simple question:

You answered with shit. There can't be an open-minded discussion when you're acting this way. If you can't do this simple thing, why should I bother? Go fuck yourself, I'm done with you.

P.S. And yes, the rebels are real. I personally know a couple. One of them killed in action like a month ago near Luhansk...

Hahaha, I guess you will never understand the so-called Russian "soul". You don't see the whole thing behind "the united voice chanting in unison "the Russian government is innocent!". I promise you that between ourselves we don't think that our government is that "innocent" (but this is none of your business)...

You were being a douchebag. Here you are:

No. Posts by indignant Westerners cannot be considered proof that covert Western troops, dressed in mufti, have been sent to east Ukraine to either pretend to be Russian-speaking rebels or to assist some rebel groups. That opposite makes no sense. And I was talking about the Russian argumentativeness as being an auxiliary or supporting argument in light of all the other evidence like photos and first-hand accounts (showing that Russia has been attacking Ukraine).

Assuming that Russia has been wrongly accused by the West, Russians would be expected to respond in a rational manner, which includes accepting and open-mindedly discussing the possibility that maybe the Russian government has been attacking Ukraine. However, the stubborn denial, and the defensiveness towards the Russian government seems highly suspicious.

The lack of diversity in the Russian opinions is also highly suspect. Most Westerners whom I've met seem very aware that some Western governments, especially the US, are probably up to no good. Even if they don't want to make direct accusations without knowing the facts, Westerners often have a healthy distrust towards their democratically elected representatives. And many of them often disagree with each other. Some Westerners have different opinions from other Westerners! You may be shocked by this, but Westerners often argue among themselves, even in the same thread on the Internet. The ability for Westerners to have different opinions also results in small government majorities, minority governments, hung parliaments, and 'low' levels of support for their country's leaders. As a side-effect, this makes it easier for leaders in more authoritarian regimes to falsely claim that they (for example: Putin) are doing a better job because they are more popular.

Therefore, the united voice chanting in unison: "the Russian government is innocent! They are not involved in Ukraine's internal disputes! The rebels are real! The West is responsible for Ukraine's coup and the "Kiev junta"!" sounds very suspect.

Yeah, you you're right, cutting exports would lead to trade deficit that will be compensated (balanced) through currency depreciation (or by increasing national debt, see USA)...

Did you mean depreciating?

It's interesting, though any conclusion might be premature

It's not that good as you picture it. If you look into Norway's economy, you'll quickly notice these very things that you contend it had avoided.

These are:
1. Enormous welfare state, almost a third of workers work in the public sector
2. Largely petroleum-focused economy, including employment
3. One of the highest cost of living which causes competitiveness issues in non-petroleum related industries

Oil and gas exports account for more than a half of all export revenues (not much less than in Russia) and for 25-30 percent of government revenues.


And after all, Russia tried to learn from Norway's experience by establishing similar wealth funds. And they helped us when the crisis hit.

P.S. Norway's government is allowed to spend 4% of the fund annually, not of the surplus.

You'd better first answer why they want to ban the Russian gas transit through Ukraine. If you somehow manage to answer this question, this will also be an answer to your question...

You seem not to understand the economy behind all these numbers. The percentage of exports reflects the strength and level of integration of an economy in the global market. Exports are necessarily balanced by the corresponding level of imports (which are not dependent on the structure of exports), so cutting the exports would inevitably bring about both depreciating the national currency and reducing the imports.

In practice, we see that European sanctions against Russia are more damaging to Europe itself than Russia, since by introducing discriminatory counter-sanctions Russia attenuates European sanctions' negative effect on its economy and at the same time protects its existing exports while Russian sanctions have deeper and broader effect on the European economy due to the structure of imports (multiplicator effect)...

Wow! I really hope they don't back out on this in spite of possible EU protests!


Why would they ban the Russian language, when most of them speak Russian???

Are you saying that Mariupol is governed by a dictator? Or that ONLY the pro-Kiev side has guns? I don't get it. If the pro-Kiev side is a minority, then how are they holding so much control over what you claim is a huge majority?



This is bad why? Weren't you claiming that those people were Russians and want to be a part of Russia? So, now thanks to the fighting in the region (fighting by BOTH, separatists and Kiev "junta") they are Russians in Russia. So, what's the problem?

I'm not twisting facts, I'm reporting on actual numbers. How would you "untwist" the facts that 70% of Russia's economy depends on exports, and that 40% of China's economy depends on exports to the west, and is supported by them owning US debt? Are you disputing the facts, or claiming that if those 70% and 40% of exports were cut, and China lost $1.28 trillion in assets, that their economy would boom?



How Norway has avoided the 'curse of oil'. Some key points:
"For while other countries have struck oil and then binged on the revenues, by contrast Norway is continuing to invest its oil and gas money in a giant sovereign wealth fund."
"There is a closely followed guideline that only 4% of the surplus from the fund is spent or invested in public projects."

So, this "resource-rich country" is not rich because of the oil. It sounds like, instead of using their oil profits to pay for social welfare programs the way Russia and many Middle Eastern countries are doing, they are putting that money aside, and are still focusing on developing their economy through other means. Once the oil runs out, they plan to use that fund to help continue to develop their economy and switch to other types of production, but are still worried that they may have trouble with jobs if too many people don't have any skills other than oil.

Poroshenko just received orders from Barack Obama to block the Russian gas. The Qataris are already salivating at the idea of selling their LNG at $700 per  kilo cubic meter to the European consumers. It will not affect Germany though. Their supply is secure, through the Nord Stream gas pipeline. It is the other idiots, such as the French and the Italians, who are going to suffer.

I guess this madness is bound to culminate sooner or later in a complete and overwhelming ban for the Russian language use under the penalty of imprisonment and confiscation of property...

Excellent! 

The NAF has withdrawn from Talakovka, the last Mariupol outskirt which was under their control. Now Mariupol and the surrounding regions are firmly under Kiev control. Heavy fighting still ongoing at the Donetsk airport. BTW... has anyone noticed this:

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140911/192833476/Kievs-Law-Paving-Way-for-Sanctions-Against-Moscow-to-Enter-Into.html

From Friday onward, Kiev will not allow any Russian gas to pass through Ukraine.

Herman Van Rompuy @euHvR

Further EU restrictive measures against ‪#‎Russia‬ will enter into force on Friday 12 September 2014. My full statement: http://ow.ly/BnjA0