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Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 26. (Read 734910 times)

legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
The survey was made by the Ukrainian based Center for Sociological Studies.  The survey itself is entitled “The results of the survey “Socio-political orientation of citizens“.  The full survey can be seen here in Ukrainian:

http://www.sofia.com.ua/page167.html

Interesting findings. Disapproval rating for Poroshenko at 55.2%, while the same for Arseniy Yatsenyuk is at 68.3%. More importantly, 61.5% of the population supports the idea of federalization, which is being opposed tooth and nail by the junta.

Another important finding: 61.8% want to give up the territory currently controlled by the DPR and the LPR, while only 22.9% want to invade those regions.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Very interesting public survey in the occupied Ukraine

June 14, 2015

First, the disclaimers: no, I am not naive enough to believe that it is possible to make a truly representative survey in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine. Yes, I do understand that each article, survey or opinion piece published in the Ukraine has been paid for by some interest group.  And no, I do not believe that the people living under the Nazi junta are given enough information to make up their own opinion about these topics.  But still, I think that even with all these caveats the following survey is fascinating.

The survey was made by the Ukrainian based Center for Sociological Studies.  The survey itself is entitled “The results of the survey “Socio-political orientation of citizens“.  The full survey can be seen here in Ukrainian:

http://www.sofia.com.ua/page167.html

and here in machine-translated English:

https://goo.gl/BHXVYr

There are many interesting responses in this survey, but here are the most interesting ones (I have bolded out in red some of the most interesting figures)

http://thesaker.is/very-interesting-public-survey-in-the-occupied-ukraine/
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
It is noteworthy that while the US may in fact be not interested in the normalization of their relations with Russia (while their European allies may be), the commodity turnover between Russia and the USA surprisingly increased in 2014 by some 7% (though it was not great in absolute terms from the outset), whereas with the EU it expectedly declined by about 4.5%...

That is very interesting. And a reason for the decline in the trade volume with the EU might be the drop in oil and gas prices (Russia sells most of its gas and oil to the European Union). Also, it should be noted that the US is having a trade deficit with Russia, with Russia exporting goods worth almost $20 billion per year to the US, while importing only some $10 billion worth of goods.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
It´s not about admitting anything, rather its signal, that usability of Ukraines Junta is reaching dead end and "normalization" of relations with Russia and China is more profitable.

I doubt that. The United States is still not interested in normalizing its relations with Russia, although many of their European allies (especially Germany, France, and Italy) think otherwise. And I have a feeling that they are provoking both the EU and Russia to fight each other. And regarding China, the United States is not indulging them with a confrontational tone.

America benefited hugely from European conflicts in WW1 and 2 so a repeat is always tempting. Not necessarily general armed conflict this time. It´s more directly economical now. Let them hurt each other and we´ll end up cashing in after the dust settles as usual.
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
It´s not about admitting anything, rather its signal, that usability of Ukraines Junta is reaching dead end and "normalization" of relations with Russia and China is more profitable.

I doubt that. The United States is still not interested in normalizing its relations with Russia, although many of their European allies (especially Germany, France, and Italy) think otherwise. And I have a feeling that they are provoking both the EU and Russia to fight each other. And regarding China, the United States is not indulging them with a confrontational tone.

It is noteworthy that while the US may in fact be not interested in the normalization of their relations with Russia (while their European allies may be), the commodity turnover between Russia and the USA surprisingly increased in 2014 by some 7% (though it was not great in absolute terms from the outset), whereas with the EU it expectedly declined by about 4.5%...
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
It´s not about admitting anything, rather its signal, that usability of Ukraines Junta is reaching dead end and "normalization" of relations with Russia and China is more profitable.

I doubt that. The United States is still not interested in normalizing its relations with Russia, although many of their European allies (especially Germany, France, and Italy) think otherwise. And I have a feeling that they are provoking both the EU and Russia to fight each other. And regarding China, the United States is not indulging them with a confrontational tone.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
It´s not about admitting anything, rather its signal, that usability of Ukraines Junta is reaching dead end and "normalization" of relations with Russia and China is more profitable.

Well yeah I thought actually that it was about at a dead end for the mob after the Crimea and Donbass slipped from their grasp. Not much really worth stealing with that gone. But then again, these people are certifiable as very solidly proven by their record of insanity here and there, so I guess you never know. Lunatics can be both erratic and unpredictable.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 506
It´s not about admitting anything, rather its signal, that usability of Ukraines Junta is reaching dead end and "normalization" of relations with Russia and China is more profitable.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Well, I doubt that their being forced to admit that they´re funding and training nazis will change much. It´s just some window dressing, fascist crap will continue it´s amicable relations with nazi junk as before. It´s a totally natural relationship.  And mob media whores are unlikely to change their tunes the slightest bit.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
U.S. House Admits Nazi Role in Ukraine

June 12, 2015

Exclusive: The U.S. House of Representatives has admitted an ugly truth that the U.S. mainstream media has tried to hide from the American people – that the post-coup regime in Ukraine has relied heavily on Nazi storm troopers to carry out its bloody war against ethnic Russians, reports Robert Parry.


By Robert Parry

Last February, when ethnic Russian rebels were closing in on the Ukrainian port of Mariupol, the New York Times rhapsodically described the heroes defending the city and indeed Western civilization – the courageous Azov battalion facing down barbarians at the gate. What the Times didn’t tell its readers was that these “heroes” were Nazis, some of them even wearing Swastikas and SS symbols.

The long Times article by Rick Lyman fit with the sorry performance of America’s “paper of record” as it has descended into outright propaganda – hiding the dark side of the post-coup regime in Kiev. But what makes Lyman’s sadly typical story noteworthy today is that the Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives has just voted unanimously to bar U.S. assistance going to the Azov battalion because of its Nazi ties.

When even the hawkish House of Representatives can’t stomach these Nazi storm troopers who have served as Kiev’s tip of the spear against the ethnic Russian population of eastern Ukraine, what does that say about the honesty and integrity of the New York Times when it finds these same Nazis so admirable?

And it wasn’t like the Times didn’t have space to mention the Nazi taint. The article provided much color and detail – quoting an Azov leader prominently – but just couldn’t find room to mention the inconvenient truth about how these Nazis had played a key role in the ongoing civil war on the U.S. side. The Times simply referred to Azov as a “volunteer unit.”

Yet, on June 10, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bipartisan amendment to the Defense Appropriations Act – from Reps. John Conyers Jr., D-Michigan, and Ted Yoho, R-Florida – that would block U.S. training of the Azov battalion and would prevent transfer of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to fighters in Iraq and Ukraine.

“I am grateful that the House of Representatives unanimously passed my amendments last night to ensure that our military does not train members of the repulsive neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, along with my measures to keep the dangerous and easily trafficked MANPADs out of these unstable regions,” said Conyers on Thursday.

He described Ukraine’s Azov Battalion as a 1,000-man volunteer militia of the Ukrainian National Guard that Foreign Policy Magazine has characterized as “openly neo-Nazi” and “fascist.” And Azov is not some obscure force. Ukraine’s Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, who oversees Ukraine’s armed militias, announced that Azov troops would be among the first units to be trained by the 300 U.S. military advisers who have been dispatched to Ukraine in a training mission codenamed “Fearless Guardian.”

White Supremacy

On Friday, a Bloomberg News article by Leonid Bershidsky noted that “it’s easy to see why” Conyers “would have a problem with the military unit commanded by Ukrainian legislator Andriy Biletsky: Conyers is a founding member of the Congressional Black Caucus, Biletsky is a white supremacist. …

“Biletsky had run Patriot of Ukraine [the precursor of the Azov battalion] since 2005. In a 2010 interview he described the organization as nationalist ‘storm troops’ … The group’s ideology was ‘social nationalism’ — a term Biletsky, a historian, knew would deceive no one. …

“In 2007, Biletsky railed against a government decision to introduce fines for racist remarks: ‘So why the “Negro-love” on a legislative level? They want to break everyone who has risen to defend themselves, their family, their right to be masters of their own land! They want to destroy the Nation’s biological resistance to everything alien and do to us what happened to Old Europe, where the immigrant hordes are a nightmare for the French, Germans and Belgians, where cities are “blackening” fast and crime and the drug trade are invading even the remotest corners.’”

The Bloomberg article continued, “Biletsky landed in prison in 2011, after his organization took part in a series of shootouts and fights. Following Ukraine’s so-called revolution of dignity last year, he was freed as a political prisoner; right-wing organizations, with their paramilitary training, played an important part in the violent phase of the uprising against former President Viktor Yanukovych. The new authorities — which included the ultra-nationalist party Svoboda — wanted to show their gratitude.

“The war in the east gave Biletsky’s storm troopers a chance at a higher status than they could ever have hoped to achieve. They fought fiercely, and last fall, the 400-strong Azov Battalion became part of the National Guard, receiving permission to expand to 2,000 fighters and gaining access to heavy weaponry. So what if some of its members had Nazi symbols tattooed on their bodies and the unit’s banner bore the Wolfsangel, used widely by the Nazis during World War II?

“In an interview with Ukraine’s Focus magazine last September, Avakov, responsible for the National Guard, was protective of his heroes. He said of the Wolfsangel: ‘In many European cities it is part of the city emblem. Yes, most of the guys who assembled in Azov have a particular worldview. But who told you you could judge them? Don’t forget what the Azov Battalion did for the country. Remember the liberation of Mariupol, the fighting at Ilovaysk, the latest attacks near the Sea of Azov. May God allow anyone who criticizes them to do 10 percent of what they’ve done. And anyone who’s  going to tell me that these guys preach Nazi views, wear the swastika and so on, are bare-faced liars and fools.’”

Though the House vote on June 10 may have shined a spotlight into this dark corner of the U.S.-embraced Kiev regime, the reality has been well-known for many months – though played down in most of the Western news media, often dismissed as “Russian propaganda.”

Even the Times has included at least one brief reference to this reality, though buried deep inside an article. On Aug. 10, 2014, a Times’ article mentioned the Nazi taint of the Azov battalion in the last three paragraphs of a lengthy story on another topic.

“The fighting for Donetsk has taken on a lethal pattern: The regular army bombards separatist positions from afar, followed by chaotic, violent assaults by some of the half-dozen or so paramilitary groups surrounding Donetsk who are willing to plunge into urban combat,” the Times reported.

“Officials in Kiev say the militias and the army coordinate their actions, but the militias, which count about 7,000 fighters, are angry and, at times, uncontrollable. One known as Azov, which took over the village of Marinka, flies a neo-Nazi symbol resembling a Swastika as its flag.” [See Consortiumnews.com’s “NYT Discovers Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis at War.”]

A Shiver Down the Spine

The conservative London Telegraph offered more details about the Azov battalion in an article by correspondent Tom Parfitt, who wrote: “Kiev’s use of volunteer paramilitaries to stamp out the Russian-backed Donetsk and Luhansk ‘people’s republics’… should send a shiver down Europe’s spine.

“Recently formed battalions such as Donbas, Dnipro and Azov, with several thousand men under their command, are officially under the control of the interior ministry but their financing is murky, their training inadequate and their ideology often alarming. The Azov men use the neo-Nazi Wolfsangel (Wolf’s Hook) symbol on their banner and members of the battalion are openly white supremacists, or anti-Semites.”

Based on interviews with militia members, the Telegraph reported that some of the fighters doubted the reality of the Holocaust, expressed admiration for Adolf Hitler and acknowledged that they are indeed Nazis.

Biletsky, the Azov commander, “is also head of an extremist Ukrainian group called the Social National Assembly,” according to the Telegraph article which quoted a commentary by Biletsky as declaring: “The historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led Untermenschen.”

In other words, for the first time since World War II, a government had dispatched Nazi storm troopers to attack a European population – and officials in Kiev knew what they were doing. The Telegraph questioned Ukrainian authorities in Kiev who acknowledged that they were aware of the extremist ideologies of some militias but insisted that the higher priority was having troops who were strongly motivated to fight. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ignoring Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers.”]

But a rebel counteroffensive led by ethnic Russians last August reversed many of Kiev’s gains and drove the Azov and other government forces back to the port city of Mariupol, where Foreign Policy’s reporter Alec Luhn also encountered the Nazis. He wrote:

“Blue and yellow Ukrainian flags fly over Mariupol’s burned-out city administration building and at military checkpoints around the city, but at a sport school near a huge metallurgical plant, another symbol is just as prominent: the wolfsangel (‘wolf trap’) symbol that was widely used in the Third Reich and has been adopted by neo-Nazi groups. …

“Pro-Russian forces have said they are fighting against Ukrainian nationalists and ‘fascists’ in the conflict, and in the case of Azov and other battalions, these claims are essentially true.”

SS Helmets

More evidence continued to emerge about the presence of Nazis in the ranks of Ukrainian government fighters. Germans were shocked to see video of Azov militia soldiers decorating their gear with the Swastika and the “SS rune.” NBC News reported: “Germans were confronted with images of their country’s dark past … when German public broadcaster ZDF showed video of Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi symbols on their helmets in its evening newscast.

“The video was shot … in Ukraine by a camera team from Norwegian broadcaster TV2. ‘We were filming a report about Ukraine’s AZOV battalion in the eastern city of Urzuf, when we came across these soldiers,’ Oysten Bogen, a correspondent for the private television station, told NBC News. “Minutes before the images were taped, Bogen said he had asked a spokesperson whether the battalion had fascist tendencies. ‘The reply was: absolutely not, we are just Ukrainian nationalists,’ Bogen said.”

Despite the newsworthiness of a U.S.-backed government dispatching Nazi storm troopers to attack Ukrainian cities, the major U.S. news outlets have gone to extraordinary lengths to excuse this behavior, with the Washington Post publishing a rationalization that Azov’s use of the Swastika was merely “romantic.”

This curious description of the symbol most associated with the depravity of the Holocaust and the devastation of World War II can be found in the last three paragraphs of a Post lead story published in September 2014. Post correspondent Anthony Faiola portrayed the Azov fighters as “battle-scarred patriots” nobly resisting “Russian aggression” and willing to resort to “guerrilla war” if necessary.

The article found nothing objectionable about Azov’s plans for “sabotage, targeted assassinations and other insurgent tactics” against Russians, although such actions in other contexts are regarded as terrorism. The extremists even extended their threats to the government of Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko if he agrees to a peace deal with the ethnic Russian east that is not to the militia’s liking.

“If Kiev reaches a deal with rebels that they don’t support, paramilitary fighters say they could potentially strike pro-Russian targets on their own — or even turn on the government itself,” the article stated.

The Post article – like almost all of its coverage of Ukraine – was laudatory about the Kiev forces fighting ethnic Russians in the east, but the newspaper did have to do some quick thinking to explain a photograph of a Swastika gracing an Azov brigade barracks. So, in the last three paragraphs of the story, Faiola reported: “One platoon leader, who called himself Kirt, conceded that the group’s far right views had attracted about two dozen foreign fighters from around Europe.

“In one room, a recruit had emblazoned a swastika above his bed. But Kirt … dismissed questions of ideology, saying that the volunteers — many of them still teenagers — embrace symbols and espouse extremist notions as part of some kind of ‘romantic’ idea.”

Despite these well-documented facts, the New York Times excised this reality from its article about the Azov battalion’s defense of Mariupol last February. But isn’t the role of Nazis newsworthy? In other contexts, the Times is quick to note and condemn any sign of a Nazi resurgence in Europe. However, in Ukraine, where neo-Nazis, such as Andriy Parubiy served as the coup regime’s first national security chief and Nazi militias are at the center of regime’s military operations, the Times goes silent on the subject.

Rather than fully inform its readers about a crisis that has the potential of becoming a nuclear showdown between the United States and Russia, the Times has chosen to simply be a fount of State Department propaganda, often terming any reference to Kiev’s Nazi storm troopers to be “Russian propaganda.” Now, however, a unanimous U.S. House of Representatives — of all things — has acknowledged the unpleasant truth.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/12/u-s-house-admits-nazi-role-in-ukraine/
legendary
Activity: 3514
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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
Exactly. As has been said before, USA will be attacking Russia through Ukraine till the last Ukrainian.

As long as there are low IQ people in the Eastern Europe, the Americans will continue using them as cannon fodder (Ukrainians, Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians, Romanians.etc) against the Russians. By the time these people realize that the Americans were just using them for their own objectives, irrepairable damage would have been done.

I guess this has nothing to do with the low IQ people in Eastern Europe (in fact, I don't think that their IQ is substantially lower than in any other quarter of the world). That would be an oversimplification of matters. If we take Ukraine as a model vehicle for the US policy against Russia, we could reliably assume that they (US) helped one gang to take over another gang in these gangs' pursuit of power. Or tacitly "helped" them all (that's real politik, wtf)...

The most cynical thing would be if they haven't had to actually choose between the warring factions and just let the devil take the hindmost
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
Exactly. As has been said before, USA will be attacking Russia through Ukraine till the last Ukrainian.

As long as there are low IQ people in the Eastern Europe, the Americans will continue using them as cannon fodder (Ukrainians, Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians, Romanians.etc) against the Russians. By the time these people realize that the Americans were just using them for their own objectives, irrepairable damage would have been done.
hero member
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Merit: 500
Ah yes, here it is. Not to do with rocket. LCMR (Lightweight Counter-Mortar Radar). Very expensive stuff. We´re talking millions of dollars. Each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omJSHbbVbtY Radars, 4 min into the video

Delivered in November, left intact for the enemy in February. Nice going.

Agence France-Presse: US delivers anti-mortar radars to Ukraine - Pentagon
Nov. 22, 2014,

Anyway, it would be much easier and save lots of lives if Mr. Zakharchenko just sent a list of the supplies he would like directly to Barry Bananas & The Neocon Nutshow, and cut out the middleman.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
One thing I don´t get. Why is Uncle Sam so desperate to hand over military gear to those Donbass rebels? In the Debaltsevo pocket there was some advanced stuff from them that was left intact like that what the hell was it again some rocket launcher radar? Sounds very useful. And other good stuff. And now they´ve been shipping more over to Ukraine like crazy and the totally useless Ukrainian military seems to be preparing another hopeless campaign. And they will leave more intact stuff behind when they retreat from that. It´s a mystery. Of course it´s difficult to understand the actions of madmen, at least for laymen.

Why is it a mystery? You assume that they supply the Ukrainian military for the purpose of defeating the Donbass rebels, right? But if they really wanted that they would send some really lethal weapons to Kiev. So far they seem to be more interested in the continuation of the warfare (as long as possible), not in one side quickly taking over the other...

Uncle Sam follows his interests, not those of Ukraine

Exactly. As has been said before, USA will be attacking Russia through Ukraine till the last Ukrainian.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
One thing I don´t get. Why is Uncle Sam so desperate to hand over military gear to those Donbass rebels? In the Debaltsevo pocket there was some advanced stuff from them that was left intact like that what the hell was it again some rocket launcher radar? Sounds very useful. And other good stuff. And now they´ve been shipping more over to Ukraine like crazy and the totally useless Ukrainian military seems to be preparing another hopeless campaign. And they will leave more intact stuff behind when they retreat from that. It´s a mystery. Of course it´s difficult to understand the actions of madmen, at least for laymen.

Why is it a mystery? You assume that they supply the Ukrainian military for the purpose of defeating the Donbass rebels, right? But if they really wanted that they would send some really lethal weapons to Kiev. So far they seem to be more interested in the continuation of the warfare (as long as possible), not in one side quickly taking over the other...

Uncle Sam follows his interests, not those of Ukraine

Yeah, I guess so. It´s the same shit in Iraq. Totally useless military forces of worse than useless puppets busy handing over materiel to the "enemy".

And right after I posted this I read this pearl: Being the expert image manipulator that it is, the US never shies away from exploiting human tragedy for its own strategic ends You sure got that right Mr. Andrew KORYBKO (USA)

American plan for a South Asian “Kosovo” in Rohingyaland (I)

Tue, Jun 9, 2015 Andrew KORYBKO (USA)

http://orientalreview.org/2015/06/09/american-plan-for-a-south-asian-kosovo-in-rohingyaland-i/



RE: Psychopaths blaming victims:

Poroshenko: Their Children Will Sit In Cellars!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ba_1416084786
legendary
Activity: 3514
Merit: 1280
English ⬄ Russian Translation Services
One thing I don´t get. Why is Uncle Sam so desperate to hand over military gear to those Donbass rebels? In the Debaltsevo pocket there was some advanced stuff from them that was left intact like that what the hell was it again some rocket launcher radar? Sounds very useful. And other good stuff. And now they´ve been shipping more over to Ukraine like crazy and the totally useless Ukrainian military seems to be preparing another hopeless campaign. And they will leave more intact stuff behind when they retreat from that. It´s a mystery. Of course it´s difficult to understand the actions of madmen, at least for laymen.

Why is it a mystery? You assume that they supply the Ukrainian military for the purpose of defeating the Donbass rebels, right? But if they really wanted that they would send some really lethal weapons to Kiev. So far they seem to be more interested in the continuation of the warfare (as long as possible), not in one side quickly taking over the other...

Uncle Sam follows his interests, not those of Ukraine
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
One thing I don´t get. Why is Uncle Sam so desperate to hand over military gear to those Donbass rebels? In the Debaltsevo pocket there was some advanced stuff from them that was left intact like that what the hell was it again some rocket launcher radar? Sounds very useful. And other good stuff. And now they´ve been shipping more over to Ukraine like crazy and the totally useless Ukrainian military seems to be preparing another hopeless campaign. And they will leave more intact stuff behind when they retreat from that. It´s a mystery. Of course it´s difficult to understand the actions of madmen, at least for laymen.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Right. According to psychopaths nothing is ever their fault it´s always the victims´fault. That´s also a very familiar pattern from those quarters. And at least some idiots always lap it up.
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