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Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia. - page 21. (Read 734725 times)

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Ukraine has no military to speak of and thus no meaningful navy I guess. Maybe there´s some small core of soldiers that could threaten to be of some military use which is why the western mob has been sending in "trainers" with a very solid record of rendering military forces totally useless around the world. Well, useless apart from handing armaments and weapons over to the opposition.

The total strength of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was less than 160,000 in 2014. Out of that somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 were naval personnel. A majority of the naval personnel defected to Russia, and most of the remainder retired when Crimea became a part of Russia. Now talking about the ground forces, there were around 75,000 of them in 2014. Somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 were killed in the fighting and many tens of thousands were wounded. So it is safe to assume that right now, Ukraine has no military to speak of.

Hence Der Volkssturm of Pornoshenko and Ukraine´s Himmler wannabes.

Anyway, it isn´t so much about size as good training, leadership and motivation. I doubt that this joke of military has many decent officers by now, not least after nazis and other fruitcakes in power started appointing generals and they then picked staff of the same ilk. Like the Russians say a fish rots from the head down.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
You appear to be mixing up Ukraine and Belarus geographically. Belarus is landlocked. Ukraine, though the ports of Odessa and Mariupol, has access to the Black Sea and further to the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean.
It is not only me that is "mixing up". 20th century "mixed up" the people living in those lands something fierce.

First there was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_Line .

Then there were some lines in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact .

Then there was plain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_Line .

And then they had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakerzonia .

And I'm most likely missing some other "lines".

It isn't a simple two-side conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

The real solution will have to involve cooperation of all involved peoples: Byelorussians, Poles, Russians and Ukrainians.

Edit: URL markup fixed.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
Ukraine has no military to speak of and thus no meaningful navy I guess. Maybe there´s some small core of soldiers that could threaten to be of some military use which is why the western mob has been sending in "trainers" with a very solid record of rendering military forces totally useless around the world. Well, useless apart from handing armaments and weapons over to the opposition.

The total strength of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was less than 160,000 in 2014. Out of that somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 were naval personnel. A majority of the naval personnel defected to Russia, and most of the remainder retired when Crimea became a part of Russia. Now talking about the ground forces, there were around 75,000 of them in 2014. Somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 were killed in the fighting and many tens of thousands were wounded. So it is safe to assume that right now, Ukraine has no military to speak of.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
It´s a beautiful situation. With Mr. Putin as their ace in the hole the Greeks can probably extort money out of IMF and other mob institutions ad infinitum.  Grin
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Russia Gloats: "Merkel's Misery Over Broken Europe Dreams"

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/06/2015 - 08:23

"After the Greeks voted against accepting the latest demands from its creditors, Merkel is facing her worst nightmare: a possible Greek exit from the euro, a possible exit from the EU completely and loss of confidence in the currency itself.  Half of her was Merkel — the pragmatic economist, the other was Merkel — the great European. She has now discovered, in her vacillation, she has not shown the leadership expected of the most powerful woman in the European Union." ... more

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-06/russia-gloats-merkels-misery-over-broken-europe-dreams
hero member
Activity: 616
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Ukraine has no military to speak of and thus no meaningful navy I guess. Maybe there´s some small core of soldiers that could threaten to be of some military use which is why the western mob has been sending in "trainers" with a very solid record of rendering military forces totally useless around the world. Well, useless apart from handing armaments and weapons over to the opposition.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Humorous value aside, this is not a mistranslation. Smiley
The article speaks about "BMФ", an abbreviation for "Boeннo-Mopcкoй Флoт" - literally "Military-Sea(faring) Fleet".

Ukraine inherited its Navy from USSR, but it was in the state of neglect in the subsequent 25 years, just like the rest of Ukraine. When Crimea reunited with Russia, part of the Ukrainian Navy vessels that were stationed in Sevastopol, were towed to Odessa (they could not go under their own steam), and part were abandoned as scrap metal as they were not seaworthy, for Russia to deal with them.
I'm not going to disagree with you because I'm at most quarter-literate in the languages used there.

Nota bene: In the linked article I see the phrase "вoeннo-мopcкиe cилы (BMC) Укpaины", which would be more like "war(time)-sea(faring) forces". Wikipedia shows the proper Ukrainian translation as "Biйcькoвo-мopcькi cили".

So if not mistranslation, it could be called "really sloppy reporting".

From the military point of view the sensible deployment would require cooperation of Byelarus because of the geographical constraints of the in-land waterways navigation.

Edit: One more link about the military importance of the "landlocked navy" there during the 20th century wars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinsk_Marshes


First of all: I stand corrected. The article does say "BMC" .
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2015/07/05/n_7349245.shtml?loi
Quote
Гyбepнaтop Oдeccкoй oблacти Mиxaил Caaкaшвили зaявил, чтo в здaнии Дoмa пpoфcoюзoв нa Кyликoвoм пoлe в Oдecce бyдeт paзмeщeнo кoмaндoвaниe вoeннo-мopcкиx cил (BMC) Укpaины

But we are still in the hair-splitting territory. Both terms would refer to the seafaring fleet/force. So the translation as "Navy" is fully correct.

You appear to be mixing up Ukraine and Belarus geographically. Belarus is landlocked. Ukraine, though the ports of Odessa and Mariupol, has access to the Black Sea and further to the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean.

Also, the linguistic difference between Ukrainian and Russian is often less than between some of the Norwegian dialects or between German and Austrian.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
Humorous value aside, this is not a mistranslation. Smiley
The article speaks about "BMФ", an abbreviation for "Boeннo-Mopcкoй Флoт" - literally "Military-Sea(faring) Fleet".

Ukraine inherited its Navy from USSR, but it was in the state of neglect in the subsequent 25 years, just like the rest of Ukraine. When Crimea reunited with Russia, part of the Ukrainian Navy vessels that were stationed in Sevastopol, were towed to Odessa (they could not go under their own steam), and part were abandoned as scrap metal as they were not seaworthy, for Russia to deal with them.
I'm not going to disagree with you because I'm at most quarter-literate in the languages used there.

Nota bene: In the linked article I see the phrase "вoeннo-мopcкиe cилы (BMC) Укpaины", which would be more like "war(time)-sea(faring) forces". Wikipedia shows the proper Ukrainian translation as "Biйcькoвo-мopcькi cили".

So if not mistranslation, it could be called "really sloppy reporting".

From the military point of view the sensible deployment would require cooperation of Byelarus because of the geographical constraints of the in-land waterways navigation.

Edit: One more link about the military importance of the "landlocked navy" there during the 20th century wars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinsk_Marshes
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Ukrainian Navy? That thing still exists? A year ago, I heard that 80% of the Naval servicemen defected to the Russian side, and the rest simply retired as Crimea was merged with the Russian Federation. They re-created the Ukrainian Navy from the scratch? Are they using fishing boats in the place of frigates?
It is probably mistranslation to English from one of the Slavic languages.

The river-boat flotilla operations were (and probably still are) important in a wetland areas crisscrossed with many rivers and canals.

Short historical military relevant information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverine_Flotilla_of_the_Polish_Navy

Humorous value aside, this is not a mistranslation. Smiley
The article speaks about "BMФ", an abbreviation for "Boeннo-Mopcкoй Флoт" - literally "Military-Sea(faring) Fleet".

Ukraine inherited its Navy from USSR, but it was in the state of neglect in the subsequent 25 years, just like the rest of Ukraine. When Crimea reunited with Russia, part of the Ukrainian Navy vessels that were stationed in Sevastopol, were towed to Odessa (they could not go under their own steam), and part were abandoned as scrap metal as they were not seaworthy, for Russia to deal with them.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
Ukrainian Navy? That thing still exists? A year ago, I heard that 80% of the Naval servicemen defected to the Russian side, and the rest simply retired as Crimea was merged with the Russian Federation. They re-created the Ukrainian Navy from the scratch? Are they using fishing boats in the place of frigates?
It is probably mistranslation to English from one of the Slavic languages.

The river-boat flotilla operations were (and probably still are) important in a wetland areas crisscrossed with many rivers and canals.

Short historical military relevant information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverine_Flotilla_of_the_Polish_Navy

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Nemo, Poroshenko is a puppet who is simply following the orders given by oligarchs such as Ihor Kolomoyskyi. That's why I made the suggestion to make him the de jure president (he is already the de facto president).

Well, don't forget, that Poroshenko is first and foremost and oligarch himself, and the only one who managed to multiply his fortune. He does take orders - from US State Dep, but not from Kolomojskij, who is his rival.

If you haven't read the following analysis, do so. Much becomes clear:
http://ladarayinfo.weebly.com/esr3.html
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
Saakashvili found new use to the site of the Odessa Massacre - the former Trade union house. In his vision it'll make a spiffing HQ of the Ukrainian Navy - after Porosenko said that Odessa will become the base town of the Ukrainian Navy

Ukrainian Navy? That thing still exists? A year ago, I heard that 80% of the Naval servicemen defected to the Russian side, and the rest simply retired as Crimea was merged with the Russian Federation. They re-created the Ukrainian Navy from the scratch? Are they using fishing boats in the place of frigates?

Bryant, suggesting making Kolomojskij the president of Ukraine is the same as suggesting Al Capone as the president of USA. Kolomojskij has a record of coming to observe hit murders that he ordered when he consolidated money in his hands.

Nemo, Poroshenko is a puppet who is simply following the orders given by oligarchs such as Ihor Kolomoyskyi. That's why I made the suggestion to make him the de jure president (he is already the de facto president).
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Now Porosenko is hearing voices: that there is "children's laughter" on the streets of Slavjansk. The same Slavjansk, which was raised to the ground last year by the Ukro-Nazis, killing a lot of children and other civilians, and forcing many more to flee for their lives. If Poroshenko is hearing any children's laughter, it's either coming from the graves of the killed Russian children

Poroshenko's schizophrenia is getting worse. And at the same time, another schizophrenic (Mikheil Saakashvili) is troubling the civilians in Odessa, a few hundred kilometers away from Donetsk. Perhaps NATO needs to institutionalize these two mental patients and make Ihor Kolomoyskyi the president of (what is left of) Ukraine.

Saakashvili found new use to the site of the Odessa Massacre - the former Trade union house. In his vision it'll make a spiffing HQ of the Ukrainian Navy - after Porosenko said that Odessa will become the base town of the Ukrainian Navy:
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2015/07/05/n_7349245.shtml?loi

Bryant, suggesting making Kolomojskij the president of Ukraine is the same as suggesting Al Capone as the president of USA. Kolomojskij has a record of coming to observe hit murders that he ordered when he consolidated money in his hands.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
Now Porosenko is hearing voices: that there is "children's laughter" on the streets of Slavjansk. The same Slavjansk, which was raised to the ground last year by the Ukro-Nazis, killing a lot of children and other civilians, and forcing many more to flee for their lives. If Poroshenko is hearing any children's laughter, it's either coming from the graves of the killed Russian children

Poroshenko's schizophrenia is getting worse. And at the same time, another schizophrenic (Mikheil Saakashvili) is troubling the civilians in Odessa, a few hundred kilometers away from Donetsk. Perhaps NATO needs to institutionalize these two mental patients and make Ihor Kolomoyskyi the president of (what is left of) Ukraine.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
A few days ago, Porosenko either made a Freudian slip of a specific disclosure of his masters' intent, by saying that there will NOT be peace in Donbass at any cost.

Now Porosenko is hearing voices: that there is "children's laughter" on the streets of Slavjansk. The same Slavjansk, which was raised to the ground last year by the Ukro-Nazis, killing a lot of children and other civilians, and forcing many more to flee for their lives. If Poroshenko is hearing any children's laughter, it's either coming from the graves of the killed Russian children or from the living children from Banderas relocated to the stolen lands of Slavjansk from Western Ukraine...
http://www.bfm.ru/news/297176

Meanwhile OCSE observers counted 152 explosions in the area of the former Donetsk Airport:
http://ria.ru/world/20150705/1114335229.html

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Here´s one of the Russian generals that Kiev claims are fighting in the Donbass.

Major General Valery Solodchuk, a paratrooper. Commander of an air-assault division.

It's our mountains ...

Paratroopers created today are the basis of mobile forces

http://www.rg.ru/2013/10/17/desantniki.html

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Somehow without Odessa, Russia doesnt seem quite whole.

Catherine relieved the Ottoman Turks of the area back there in the late 18th century and her generalissimo Alexander Suvorov founded the city of Tiraspol in 1792 in captured territory to the north in what is now Transnistria. Tiraspol, lit. Dniester City from Tiras an ancient Greek name of the Dniester river and polis: city.



This seems about right

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
They want Russia to repeat the 2008 invasion of Georgia (Ukraine this time). Putin is no idiot. He knows their plans. But if an attack occurs against the Russian peacekeepers in TMR, then he will have no other option.

What invasion to Georgia?? There was a UN peacekeeping mandat.

Bryant should have put "invasion" in quotation marks. When Russian peacekeepers pushed the Georgian forces out of South Ossetia, there was a lot of howling about "Russian invasion of Georgia" by the Western MSM pressitutes.



" Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia."

--- 66% of prediction Smiley Smiley Smiley

The OP should have added Odessa to that list as well. The city was founded by the Russian Empress Catherine the Great in 1794. It was later one of the first free ports in Russia between 1819 and 1858. After its heroic resistance to the Nazi German/Romanian invaders during WWII, Odessa was one of the few initial Soviet cities to receive the title of City-Hero, along with Leningrad, Stalingrad and Sevastopol.

I have a feeling that the resistance to Nazism in Odessa is something we are going to see more of in the future, though the way back to Russia will be a thorny one, fraught with many obstacles from the West. The massacre of last year is not forgotten.

A thing to remember, are the American interests: the freight port of Iljichovsk (named after Vladimir Iljich Lenin - what an irony) near Odessa, was bought by Americans.
newbie
Activity: 18
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They want Russia to repeat the 2008 invasion of Georgia (Ukraine this time). Putin is no idiot. He knows their plans. But if an attack occurs against the Russian peacekeepers in TMR, then he will have no other option.

What invasion to Georgia?? There was a UN peacekeeping mandat.
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