Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 26. (Read 1059201 times)

Hey everybody,

Just to let you know that @Qtera and me teamed up to build the Devcoin wallet for Windows 32bit and 64bit. We need help with both, compiling and testing the binaries. The build is cross-compiled on Ubuntu 18.04 (and Linuxmint 19.3). If you are willing to help please use the following links:

- Cross-compile Windows wallet from Linux https://github.com/devcoin/core/issues/80
- Test Windows wallet https://github.com/devcoin/core/issues/85

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

I like it.  Corn, your daily cornbread (code got daily use?).  Lol

Feel free, the more you spread the better. 

Thanks for the motivation and nice design!

Btw, can I borrow it for use in other channels?

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

Is there a possibility that one day I will find Devcoin among the best? Optimism can be considered a fuel for great actions.

The community is alive and with experienced people. I would not be surprised if new moments were installed here.

Following with enthusiasm...

Remind me again which retailers and service providers accept DVC as payment? TIA

Thanks for your kind contribution!

- develCuy

Because at the time of payment, the validity period expired another 38 days ago, apparently it was simply not turned off all this time.

That's awesome! One thing to look into though:

It shows 2020-06-12 00:45   Paymium 25da19   + 62.0 (Days)
But then it shows expiration as 2020-07-06 (in 23.7 days)

This doesn't make sense... clearly shows you added 62 days so I don't understand why it's claiming it expires in 1/3 of that time.

I just paid hosting for 2 months on https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dvc/

Hmm well there are slot machines somewhere in Crossfire RPG, I have not tried them nor checked their code to see what kinds of odds they provide; and in CoffeeMUD there is a script for making a poker dealer which presumably implements a poker game of player or players versus dealer, but I do not recall seeing it in use so it might not ever have worked for all I know. But actual "gambling" can be a "hot button" possibly best avoided so never really dug into either of those options.

In CoffeeMUD though there is an entire crafting system and that is what I set it up to aim for rather than the usual or even expected running around killing monsters for loot. After all, who has so much loot they feel like just giving it away to passing adventurers?

Characters in CoffeeMUD are so productive in fact, even with simple things like foraging, woodchopping, mining and gemdigging, that just giving accounts away would be an ever-growing hole in the economy; so far we have been playtesting with an eye toward figuring out about how much stuff a top-level character can rake in in a real year in order to figure a reasonable yearly fee per account aimed at letting those who make full use of the entire year can profit from those who don't stick with it and give up before breaking even.

Meanwhile the accounts the players have are financed by their nation, clan, guild. society, association or suchlike: the group they are part of that is already active on a larger scale.

There are less crafting / gathering type things in Crossfire RPG but there are some, and more maps focussed on such things can be made, but the main question with those would be who is going to "foot the bill" of keeping them stocked? So far players do not seem to be "milking the system" a lot so the Crossfire RPG "rabbithole" into the Milieu is still open at no charge for folks to join, but a person could for example simply keep creating a character, dropping its starting gear, and deleting the character, over and over and over again. piling up lots of loot then send another character for it or create another new character and cart all the stuff off to a pawnshop to sell it. A bunch of people going hard at that might be able to become a sufficient hole in the economy to force us to close even that last free rabbit-hole though I suppose we could first try reducing the starting equipment or making more of it be "gifts of the gods" that vanish back to the gods when you drop it or give it or try to sell it.

Economic considerations along such lines were always a major part of the point of having nations, clans, guilds and such, "groups" in general, so that players already in the game would finance bringing in new players by recruiting potential players into their "groups".

So basically right now one hangs out in Crossfire RPG making friends and hoping a friend will finance one into farther levels of play or show one how to do well enough by oneself in Crossfire to bootstrap oneself farther.

But one thing I learned from watching the Cryptocurrency industry is that a lot of "players" are happy to just "play" the currency / asset markets without feeling any need nor desire to be playing some character on some world somewhere walking potentially dangerous streets to reach a market, bank or stock exchange at which the character would be doing such trading; pure abstract trading where you just go to a website and trade seems quite engrossing enough for a lot of people without necessarily even caring what planet the things they are trading are on and without even any "rail baron" type layer involving actually transporting the traded stuff from place to place, it is just traded right where it is in effect then the profits taken home to the non-game world. So just having lots of things to trade at lots of different prices with lots of different interactions behind the scenes (from the perspective of the players just trading on web based exchanges) affecting the relative prices is probably quite game enough for some demographics.

Heck there are entire styles / strategies of play that do not even really show much interest in background details at all, they just play the changes in price without particularly caring, it often seems, why those changes happen. ("Technical analysis" for instance maybe if I understand such terms correctly?)

If you know of free open source online game code that would be suitable to deploy I'd love to hear of it and check it out. I have looked at a LOT of free open source online games and am still looking.

-MarkM-

You mean pathfinding?


CrossFire RPG seems like rather complex game. Perhaps other games are as well, so I think a lot of people might find it not worth their time to delve into it. I remember OGame and similar games involving risks of somebody attacking you, thus taking part of your resources, and thus making some players actually quit the game, or start playing on another server.  
Maybe there could be simpler games? Just so that folks can start with something tangible, and easy to understand, to get the general idea what it's about?  
Since you are already scaling the... perspective(?) down (galaxy->civilization->individual), how about creating some simple "mini-games" which individual ("character") would be playing? For example some simple puzzle games (competitive?), or some gambling-type games?

Ah well that of course brings us back to the idea they should be creating value for the coins/assets.

I think way back in the beginning it was hoped that by giving them the coins they would be motivated to include the coins somehow into their projects, maybe enhancing the value of the coins and, by having that currency in common, the ability of their project to interact with others enhancing the value of them all and so on.

We were also trying to support all the other coins that could be merged-mined alongside DeVCoin, and trying also to motivate the creation of "exchanges" where all those coins could be traded.

It likely still makes sense that the first free open source projects we should be "supporting" should be those coins, since from the start those who have been with us from the beginning have presumably been accumulating all of them in the course of their merged-mining, and those mining pools that offered merged-mining might also still have such coins and so on.

Also the platforms where we can trade them, such as HORIZON and Stellar.

HORIZON used to be on Poloniex, I managed to buy up quite a few of them back then, it fluctuated usually between about 33 satoshis to 133 satoshis back then. It would be useful to get it (its native coin, HZ) onto exchanges again since on the HORIZON platform all pairs involve HZ, it insinuates itself into all trades. Maybe FreiExchange can be convinced to list it? Part of what could be in it for them could be that maybe that way we can finally get DeVCoin's "spot price" on the exchange back up over one satoshi to get some volume moving there in DeVCoin; it might also lead to more I0Coin activity too. IXCoin is already nicely active and is already up over 800 satoshis so hey, maybe folks looking to "cash out" to fiat could buy IXCoins? Or of course they could buy Stellar Lumens with something? I tried to set up pairs on the Stellar platform of everything against Lumens as well as everything against DeVCoins, so maybe if there are not a lot of Lumens offered directly against DeVCoin you could consume a whole bunch of offers of other things against DeVCoin then those other things against Lumens?

I think someone posted something somewhere about InterStellar maybe even having a tool or something for multi-stage converting of things?

Basically what we should probably be supporting first-off are things that provide value to our multiverse of intertwined projects, those so far being a whole bunch of classic and antique and science-fiction-milieu coins, the HORIZON and Stellar platforms (both originally chosen due to their distribution methods both of which handed out lots of free coins of their native coin allowing us to get set up on those platforms), and the various free open source multiplayer online games we have so far found to actually work and found a way to weave into the Milieu.

Speaking of which, there is one called Galaxy of Drones that looks like it could be useable given enough scale (as in number of players) and backstory and such, IF we can do well enough at this to be able to incorporate seven new products into the mix. Its basic concept seems to be that it is possible to set up a galaxy in such a way that power can be shared across the galaxy, serving as currency, and seven different types of planets can be mined each primarily for one particular type of "fuel" used to generate the power. The "technology levels" are basically a progression from the least-efficient fuel (and therefor type of planet) toward the most-efficient as well as through a fairly short list of types of ships used to attack and defend the planets.

It has a "mothership" mechanism whereby each player has a "mothership" they originally start play with and to which they ship the seven types of fuel-substance for "sale"; so it looks like it could be fitted into a larger scheme from which those motherships were presumably sent and to which the "motherships" send those seven products as they are "sold" for the "power" that acts as both the local currency of that galaxy and the means of production of all the building types and ship types within that galaxy.

So basically all we would need to do would be to monitor the "sales" of those products at the motherships, and have the products vanished by each mothership in the course of those "sales" arrive in some larger scheme of things in the warehousing depots of who-ever each particular "mothership" is backed by in that larger scheme of things.

So basically we would have seven new kinds of assets, complete with a scheme whereby they are "mined" and ability of the "miners" to build fleets to attack each other and to defend their own mining operations (planets) and so on.

As a free open source online massively multiplayer game that seems to actually work it certainly qualifies to be incorporated into the Milieu, but it is maybe a bit TOO massive for our current level of development inasmuch as test-playing it I easily racked up hundreds of planets but it became quite time-consuming to maintain a huge empire in it given I have so many other things to do. It could use more automation tools to make it easier to run huge empires or a very large population of players to exploit an entire galaxy without eating up the entire lives of the exploiters.

So basically turn your question around: which free open source projects can we find ways to create value with, and how can we expand our repertoire of projects and types of projects we can do that with?

We should look at projects with an eye to how we can fit them into our growing economy of projects.

We use a couple of "O-game clones" for intergalactic mining, FreeCiv for planetary scale running of civilisations in the civilised galaxy or galaxies, Crossfire RPG for "rogue-like" two-dimensional individual-character scale operations on those civilised planets, CoffeeMUD for text-based and thus easily scrip-table  individual character scale operations, and Battle for Wesnoth for, so far, creating docudramas documenting history, though for years now Wesnoth is supposed to have been heading toward being able to actually create history by being able to manipulate persistent worlds (databases) instead of merely creating docudramas or carrying our small scale "duel" type operations involving small units of troops and such.

What other projects do you have in mind to support first, and what does each have to offer as an enhancement to what we have so far?

We were supporting Open Transactions because it had looked like it would give us a good platform, and also if it did so maybe even be able to be used as a zoom in on FreeCiv worlds to provide actual operating markets, banks and stock-exchanges so when a city builds such a bulding it could pop up an entire Open Transactions server per market, bank or stock-exhange making them actually functional beyond the mere abstractions they exist as in FreeCiv itself.

Since in FreeCiv we can save each game-turn, thus could in principle branch off different timelines from any saved game, Battle for Wesnoth offers the potential to create time-cadet operations whereby a player could change the outcomes of some turn on some planet and branch off a new timeline, if time travel ends up somehow sometime being discovered / developed.

And so on.

Let us hear about more potentially useful free open source projects we can put to good use...

... Like STEEM maybe? STEEM seems like it could be useful...

With STEEM maybe we can reward people for creating masses of documention of what we already have going?

Folks could write about how they got into whatever facet of it all, what they found to be effective tactics for scaling up to some of the other facts and stuff like that? How and whay to create a Clan or Guild or Party or Society or Association, why one would choose to start such a thing using the Crossfire RPG interface rather than the COffeeMUD interface or vice-versa, gosh there is just so much folks could usefully write about...

-MarkM-

Mark, now I can say aloud that from the many ideas we've got a source of wisdom!


I get your point of using the coins for other than making a fire. My idea was to give some use to all the coins stuck in the Devcoin Foundation (DF) wallets.


I'm evaluating your offering to buy Galactic Milieu assets. Yet, my stopper is that assets we acquire for the DF should serve its purpose. We are fostering Open Source every time we provide financial support to creators. We are supposed to provide financial support to them. It means that they are in need of actual money that they can use to buy food, to buy goods and to pay bills. so that they can spend more time on their projects.

The big question is: What asset can we buy from the Galactic Milieu that our beneficiaries can exchange for food and goods or to pay bills in the real world?

- develCuy

One thing I find awkward about "burning" coins is it makes it even harder to figure out how many of a coin actually exist.

It is bad enough having to deal with the ever-changing rates of minting of some coins without also trying to somehow figure out which coins already minted are still "in existence" and how many are in "lost or impossible addresses".

Please understand that the calculated values based on the "treasuries" use the number of coins minted to come up with the value per coin.

That means all the DeVCoins you have already minted, and probably even also all or most of those that will be minted in the next month or so, are all accounted for in that computed value; it is the value at which the "treasury" could buy every single DeVCoin minted so far and some that are still to be minted in the next little while.

Furthermore there is also at least one Slush Fund over and above the actual "treasury", so actually more DeVCoins than actually exist could be bought up at the calculated value.

So there is NO PROBLEM "backing" all the DeVCoins being minted. Go ahead and mint at the normal rate and sell them or donate them to the DVC Slush Fund in return for anything they happen to have on hand, or try to work out some kind of multi-step deal whereby they and you adjust what you hold in some way that arrives at you each having something to trade with one-another.

In effect you are not the only devcoin foundation, there can be many of them, but just the one single "treasury" all by itself accounts for the computed value of a DeVCoin in the "Latest Rates" include-file, a value that applies to each and every individual DeVCoin from the first one minted through the last one minted.

And by the way, "Traxo" has built a lovely tool for manipulating the "Latest Rates", take a look: https://latestrates.traxo.me/?from=IXC&to=I0C

That example URL he gave me happens to be one that shows the relative values of IXC and I0C according to the "Latest Rates".

You can use the page to relate any two of the assets. You can use it to find each "pair" on InterStellar's site, and you can use it to re-write the Latest Rates in terms of any arbitrary value you type in, so that for example if you decide that some asset XXX happens to be worth YYY you can get all the Rates priced in XXX by entering YYY as the arbitrary conversion number.

-MarkM-

Here you have it:

https://token.d.tube/

Dtube is an online uncensored video platform, they innitialy launched on the STEEM platform, now after 20 months they are launching their own utility token. Their launch website is very clear, it explains their purpose (the problem they fix), how to earn & spend the tokens, why and how their approach is better than the traditional model, etc.

Straight to the point: we need more than just the token! We need a purpose, a community supporting our purpose and to effectively achieve our purpose.

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

I tried to build binaries for the devcoin wallet using the instructions provided by Fuzzybear, but I failed miserably.  I followed the same instructions to compile the bitcoin wallet using the current master branch (v0.20.99.0-a79bca2f1) and it was pretty straight forward.

The problem I faced trying to compile the devcoin wallet was that it seems there's no "instructions" to tell the compiler how to build the windows binary. I mean, the instructions guides you step by step until you hit a wall and I suspect it's due to differences in versions. I don't know if it's possible to update the code to the most recent version or if there's already a branch in the repository addressing that, but unfortunately I got to the point I can't advance more in that regard because that exceeds my knowledge in that matter. I suspect that something similar is happening with the mac versions but it's only a hunch. However, if that could be solved in some way, I think it is possible that I could build a windows binary, although, I need to learn how to wrap it all in a single installer first, of course.

Anyway, that was a fast briefing of my findings trying to build a devcoin wallet on windows.

Cheers!

After the last discussion about new Devcoin tokens:

I think that so far we arrived to the agreement that "tokenizing" Devcoin is not a bad idea and that we have some alternatives at hand with optimistic projections. So far so good, yet we should talk about more aspects of the project.

Community building. I'm participating in Free Software communities for about 19 years and 11 of them I've been an active Open Source developer. I know very well the key relevance of building a community around any successful Open Source project. If we are supposed to succeed in this new venture, we need to start building the community again. Now let me help with the definition of community member, which might seem obvious to many, but we need to document stuff. So, in my experience, a community member is a human node of the project. Just like devcoind, we need people connecting with new people, we need word of mouth, we need to foster human trust lines, we need a network of people to market our project. For that very reason leadership is always challenged to create more and more ways to involve more people on project plan execution. Long history short, right now we are planning stuff but we need to make things happen at scale someday, without a community we'll never ever succeed! The big question is: Who is willing to become a human node of Devcoin? People joins a project for particular reasons, we should not assume that people is here just to make profits, because money can pay many things, but we can't buy life purpose. If I learned something from my involvement in Free Software communities, it is that money is the last thing to worry about when a community rocks! Let's make Devcoin community rock! Ideas?

Asset scarcity. Devcoin has already released a huge amount of coins that we can hardly control scarcity at this point. For that reason it is good to create a new asset like the coins, that we can manage better with all the hard learned lessons that came failure after failure. In short, I stay with the idea of releasing new Devcoin tokens bit by bit, rather than releasing millions of them at once or letting things in auto-mode. This is directly connected with my community building point, because, if we design the right structure, decision making will foster growth of our new assets along the community, with strategies like community driven asset management. BTW, don't think that I'm proposing political structures like democracy. Rather I'm proposing to build a community that contributes actively to the growth of their assets in common. For example, if we buy an apple tree for our farming business, we should expect to get some apples to sell someday. But we all have to take care of the tree so that we can get a lot of delicious apples for the community and for sale. We'll need to manage the business wisely in many regards, including not producing too few nor too much.

Building value. It doesn't necessarily mean to build market value 100% of the time, or only focusing on market value. Our new assets should be valuable beyond financial value. This time I can talk about my own interest on Devcoin. I believe on the dream of building an organization that effectively brings financial support to Open Source creators worldwide. For that reason we need Devcoin to have not only financial value, but to really represent its purpose. Only then we can go and knock the door of other organizations and companies that share our core values. What do we want them to see when they come and see our community? What kind of organization do you think they are willing to collaborate with? and finally: Would you be proud to be part of The Devcoin Foundation?

I look forward to your feedback.

Go go Devcoin!

- develCuy

I'm afraid to say that Deviant coin is different project than Devcoin.

- develCuy

The "treasuries" system could be that silver bullet IF continued minting of new DeVCoins doesn't get used as simply a way to basically just try to "drain the treasury" by cashing out new DeVCoins constantly for stuff from the "treasury".

The "treasury" account being used to compute a value per coin for DeVCoins is NHZ-YC2W-ZDCP-NS4G-4CEGK on the HORIZON platform.

The "Latest Rates" include file ( http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc ) is denominated in DeVCoins.

From that we can work backward to figure out what that might mean we could get for some DeVCoins by using the conversion rates of things we know we can sell on "exchanges":

For example in the file we see:

I0Crate=468.38334724
IXCrate=461.30183912

That tells us 468.38334724 DeVCoins should be worth whatever one I0Coin is worth and 461.30183912 DeVCoins should be worth whatever one IXCoin is worth.

We can look on FreiExchange to find one possible current value for I0Coins in terms of BitCoins, and for IXCoins we can look not only on FreiExchange but also on Yobit and maybe elsewhere too, those are the two exchanges I am currently working on building up buy-sides.

So you can divide 468.38334724 by whatever you think I0Coins are supposedly worth, or divide 461.30183912 by whatever you think IXCoins are supposedly worth to figure out how much DeVCoins supposedly ought to be worth according to this system.

Whether that much value can be sustained seems to depend largely upon how wisely minted DeVCoins are allocated, as in are they allocated to folks who just run out and dump them or on folks who actively work toward building up their buy-sides (since the buy-side is basically what reporting sites and aggregation sites and so on look at to decide value).

It would probably be very helpful to avoid thinking of the coins as some kind of money or thing-with-intrinsic-value and instead think of them as IOU tokens. When you hold them you are simply holding a stockpile of tokens you can issue as IOUs to other people; when you get them back they are just blank tokens again, useful to you only as tokens you can use again if you choose to represent another IOU.

I get the impression you keep trying to think of them as something of actual value, and of course just like blank disks of metal or paper or wood or whatever if they are useful to you as tokens, like poker chips or whatever, then ok there is maybe some intrinsic value in that, a box of poker chips is not free at the dollar-store or wherever, but they are just a tool for accounting. Think of every DeVCoin you do not have safely buried in concrete under the swimming-pool or whatever as a debt we need to buy back, and make sure if you do dig any up and hand them out that you do so in return for something that you can somehow make use of to redeem those debts or to put into the "treasury" or use on a buy-side to bolster the perceived value of the coin or somesuch.

Presumably the theory behind issuing them to developers of free open source software was presumably at least in part the idea that such software could, and hopefully even would, be used to "create value" in some way. So maybe it might still make sense to issue shares for running nodes of coins that have "too few" nodes, and bounties for updating the code of coins whose code is considered "too dated".

Apparently there is also a "Slush Fund" associated with that "treasury" too, we maintain "Slush Funds" alongside the treasuries as a place to keep any on hand of the coin the "treasury" is for so as not to have in a "treasury" any of the coin the "treasury" is for; but there are currently no DVC tokens in the "Slush Fund" just a thousand shares of DeVCorp.

DeVCorp is shown in the Latest Rates include-file currently as:

sDVCrate=938408.81116320

That shows how many DeVCoins one share of DeVCorp is currently computed to be worth.

So presumably the idea for that "Slush Fund" is to try to sell those DeVCorp shares to raise HZ with which to eventually probably buy-back DVC tokens.

You might notice that HZ is not listed in the "Latest Rates" file. That is because HZ is not on any "exchanges" yet nor has it been set up with a "treasury" yet from which to compute a value for it.

Lately it has been being used in the buying and selling of assets on the HORIZON platform as if it were worth one cent Canadian but realistically it probably needs to be worth a lot more than that OR all the assets need to be worth a whole lot less than they are being computed to be worth if there are realistically to be enough HZ to buy any large fraction of all the assets.

It looks like the "Slush Fund" needs to cancel some of its sell offers though, I see it is currently offering to sell DeVCorp shares at well below the computed value.

(Presumably when the offers were posted though they would have been above the value computed back then.)

-MarkM-