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Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 35. (Read 1059157 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
November 05, 2019, 04:54:40 AM
I did not make tokens representing ALL my DeVCoins, largely BECAUSE that would eventually lead to problems/awkwardness with cold storage.

What I always tried to do right from the start of the Digitalis Open Transactions Server was to "logically divide" custody/storage from the bailing-in / bailing-out process.

So that it can be thought of and treated as two separate things.

First there is the storage/custody entity, it issues tokens representing coins that it has stored away.

Secondly there are bailing-in / bailing-out entitities, they buy and sell those tokens.

That is basically how e-gold was set up: you did not send in gold nor get sent gold by e-gold.

There were intermediaries, supposedly they could ship kilograms of gold to e-gold and get kilograms of gold shipped to them, but actually in e-gold's case the gold itself was not really the point, the layer of intermediaries ordinary folks worked with were ones that sold e-gold (tokens, basically) for fiat and bought e-gold for fiat.

In our case those would be intermediaries that buy dDVC (digiDeVCoins, tokens) for actual on-blockchain DVC and sell dDVC for actual on-blockchain DeVCoins.

Normally in Stellar and Ripple and such, they make a website that actually creates new tokens when it thinks has received actual on-blockchain coins, and accepts tokens, basically deleting them, to send out on-blockchain coins.

That means it works with hot wallets, and issues tokens that represent coins it thinks it received into a hot wallet.

I never wanted to have to get that risky.

So I took only half of the coins I had on hand to issue tokens for.

That way the other half of my coins is left free for use by the bailing-in / bailing-out type of entity; it uses those coins, not the ones cold-stored somewhere to be represented as tokens, to do the cashing-in / cashing-out job.

This means you cannot simply send me a billion on-blockchain DeVCoins in return for a billion dDVC tokens unless I actually already have on hand a billion such tokens, meaning that I already have a billion actual DeVCoins in cold storage.

That is a limitation of my approach. Before I can be ready to give you tokens for actual coins, I have to already have that many coins, and have represented them with tokens. *


So there is a kind of "transaction bandwidth" limitation imposed by this way of doing things; it is a trade-off that allows the tokens we are trading to be representing older coins, coins that are already in storage; it allows us to take a long long time about making sure we really do have the coins, that it is way way too late for anyone to try to change blockchain history to un-do the fact that we really do have those coins. **

It also "ties up" coins. Once we tokenise coins, they are not about to show up for sale anywhere until we shut down operations thus no longer need any tokens representing those coins.

So basically I should never need to break coins out of cold storage to cash your tokens back to on-blockchain coins.

It is a kind of 200%-reserve system. I should be able to cash out all the tokens using the other half of my coins.

The coins represented by the tokens should be able to be buried in the Fortress of Solitude "forever", no need to dig them up.

You can see on the blockchain explorer that I have something over 500 million DeVCoins in my Devtome-listed address.

There should be less than 250 million dDVC tokens issued so far in total across all platforms. I am pretty sure that is the case.

To help keep track I plan to get the totals to be on the HORIZON platform by putting into a "Stellar Holdings" account on HORIZON tokens representing coins issued onto the Stellar platform so that I can just look at that Stellar Holdings account on HORIZON to know how many of what has been issued onto the Stellar platform. Right now for some things I have to look at both HORIZON and STELLAR issuances to add up how much of each thing I have issued, consolidating it this way will mean I can know how much of each was issued just by looking at HORIZON, with the Stellar Holdings account on HORIZON showing me how much was issued onto the Stellar platform.

Just like how you could buy e-gold from various dealers and sell your e-gold for fiat to various dealers, there is room in this system for third party dealers to do the bailing-in / bailing-out function of selling you tokens for coins and accepting coins for tokens. Hopefully some of them will even set up automated websites to do that. Such websites would of course only sell you tokens they actually have on hand, just like they would only send you fiat that they actually have on hand if buying with fiat.



* : Hence no KED tokens yet. I first need to acquire some KED so I can issue tokens representing half of those that I acquire. Smiley

** : This is particularly important for coins that are Proof-of-Work yet have hardly any hashpower actually mining them from time to time. It is what allows us to trade coins whose blockchains are not what one might call "extremely secure". Smiley

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
November 05, 2019, 03:15:50 AM
"tokens" of DVC.
[Interstellar] exchange doesn't provide a "Devcoin address"

Yeah this is what markm also refers to as dDVC / digi-DeVCoins / tokens-representing-DeVCoins. So tokens just represent coins. Tokens are backed by coins which are in the cold-storage you mentioned. If you own tokens, you do not own coins. There are no "automatic" processes which convert to tokens into coins and vice-versa as far as I'm aware.

how do I know [markm] would send me the coins [he has] in cold storage when I want to take control of them myself?

From my understanding cold-storage coins are relatively hard to get out. Markm might be willing to cash you out to coins, tho you would not receive them from that cold-storage - the reason being probably because tokens can't be "burned", and since tokens must represent cold-storage coins, they must remain at 1:1 ratio.


Coincidence there are only 200,000 DVC to buy on [Interstellar] exchange?

Hmm, should there not be overall more than 200million tokens issued? I only provided link to one pair, but you can click on the other link I provided which lists all the relevant assets that I presume can be manually "discovered" on that exchange, so happy hunting if you have time, lol.  
If/when we get the higher-volume/lower-spread (on each pair?) then we might be able to find those pairs via "Market Search" feature.


But yeah anyway, there is no "automatic" process to convert your tokens into coins. Someone must be willing to do a trade with you, I presume markm already has coins available for such trades (not cold-storage ones tho).
Perhaps he can clear it more up if was incorrect about anything.
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 11:25:41 PM









I am getting error "failed to find/connect to best block"

What is the meaning please?

I got that on Windows. I had to right click within the folder my wallet is in, run Powershell, then start the client with the -reindex command-line option in Powershell. I had a backup of my wallet beforehand.

That got my wallet reindexing the chain but then it stalled at a block it had before. I noticed I didn't have the receiver files from 96 to 99 (most recent) so I copied them from one of the seeds and put them in my roaming>devcoin folder with the rest of my receiver files.  My wallet is Windows 32-bit 0.8.5.1 (a beta version it says).  The 2014 update was the last for Windows, unless you know how to compile the new one. But this one works for now. Got it from devcoin.org.

Hope that helps you.
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 07:34:53 PM
Interstellar staff informed me with regards to DVC/XLM market not being found using "Market Search" feature:

Quote
The market spread for DVC is too high. And the  (XLM) volume traded so far has been very low.  
DVC/XLM didn't make it pass our market search results limit compared to other markets with tighter spreads, more recent trade frequency, and more recent trading volume.  
You can always link your users to the XLM/DVC market directly.

Here is a direct link to XLM/DVC market:  

https://interstellar.exchange/app/#/trade/guest/XLM/native/DVC/GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

And DVC/XLM:  

https://interstellar.exchange/app/#/trade/guest/DVC/GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5/XLM/native

I haven't traded there, but it appears to be working.  
If anyone has traded there I guess they can post some feedback here.

From my understanding of the above quote, perhaps we just need to find searchable pair with the least spread and/or volume, then somehow guesstimate how much volume and/or spread is needed for all the relevant pairs (listed at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/) to be listed in the Interstellar "Market Search" results. Note that pairs can be still found manually of course.

I am so lost.  I tinkered around with it knowing I need to send some XLM to the wallet to get the "tokens" of DVC. The rates are very good for arbitage mark, so thank you. But if I was to go through and put some XLM in create a trustline so I could trade Stellar token DVC, how do I know you would send me the coins you have in cold storage when I want to take control of them myself? Smiley

Just want to know the process a little clearer. I feel like I could get the DVC to a stellar address, but unlike Bitcoin, the exchange from Traxo doesn't provide a "Devcoin address" (as it does for Bitcoin's using a 3- script address) to send Devcoin's directly to. So by that I'm wondering if you'd honor the arbitage the tokens provide on XLM trading platform by sending me part of your 210,000 or however many DVC you hold in return.  Coincidence there are only 200,000 DVC to buy on the exchange Traxo provided the direct link to? Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 350
November 04, 2019, 06:25:06 PM
I am getting error "failed to find/connect to best block"

What is the meaning please?

Please elaborate a bit more, like: Devcoin version, operating system (and version), are you mining? etc.

- develCuy
member
Activity: 253
Merit: 62
November 04, 2019, 05:30:40 PM









I am getting error "failed to find/connect to best block"

What is the meaning please?
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 04:40:54 PM
My Windows wallet 0.8.5.1 (beta one from devcoin.org) keeps getting stuck at the same block when I try synching (around the time 0.8.6.0) came out for Linux and what not. Just wanted to mention that. I've got it all backed up and I actually think maybe since deveCuy mentioned to mine "1 block only" that this is something I'd have expected so no worries. (just don't forgot your windows friends when you got the time =) ). Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback realdantreccia! Regarding the Windows wallet, @K1773R has a working bundle AFAIK. Btw, people with skills to compile Devcoin on Windows and OSX are welcome to jump in to help and earn a share of the 10M Bounty: https://github.com/devcoin/core/issues/77

- develCuy

I downloaded receivers 96-99 and then it seemingly updated just fine to the present. I will look into that Windows compilation - also not sure where @K1773R is but last time I read that name was when a russian language client called bitcoin-0.3.24-beta or something was a BTC wallet that accepted devcoins. =P

Again, over my head.
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 04:24:19 PM

Really tho?  Ever live in the east bloc?  Ever been to the hospitals and dentists here? 

Chicagoans are poor cause the idiots vote for the same leftists for decades.  And they’re lazy and refuse to take advantage of the opportunities sitting in their doorsteps.

And poor?  Pfft, forget welfare and housing assistance and all that, just foodstamps/WIC alone in the US is more than the Gross income for a full-time job in Romania.  And in Romania the food, fuel and energy cost more than in the US.  Go to all the democrat liberal ran ghettos in Chicago and you won’t find any shortage of obese “poor”. 

You guys have no idea what poor is - you have no idea what it feels like to be trapped in a country with no hope of a future or opportunities for you or your children. 

Now get off your Western pity pot and man up, son, cause I’m gonna accelerate the programme. 


Found your Yobit solution. You want your IX-fix maybe tell them to stop using your own repository

https://github.com/vladroberto/IXCoin/releases
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
November 04, 2019, 02:09:34 PM
I do not know what you-all have against the Stellar platform?

From my understanding of the community posts, I don't think anyone has anything against the Stellar platform per se, but rather nobody knows how to set one up, or use it, or were even unaware of such online clients.  
My prior message might be the first one in this thread with regards to a direct link to some type of Stellar client? Perhaps people are not willing to risk clicking on the search results thrown by search engines when they search for a Stellar client?  
Anyway, we'll see if the aforementioned interstellar client has UI intuitive enough for others to join and use it.

Probably if someone successfully executes a trade there should write a short "how-to" guide (about how they found relevant pair, executed an order, and "withdrew" the "real" assets) and post it here.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
November 04, 2019, 02:03:50 PM

Yes we really need more activity on the Stellar platform.

Once upon a time Unthinkingbit even said twelve people could each get a "share" of DeVCoins for helping with this, but no one ever stepped up.

I do not know what you-all have against the Stellar platform?

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 568
Merit: 703
November 04, 2019, 02:00:16 PM
Interstellar staff informed me with regards to DVC/XLM market not being found using "Market Search" feature:

Quote
The market spread for DVC is too high. And the  (XLM) volume traded so far has been very low.  
DVC/XLM didn't make it pass our market search results limit compared to other markets with tighter spreads, more recent trade frequency, and more recent trading volume.  
You can always link your users to the XLM/DVC market directly.

Here is a direct link to XLM/DVC market:  

https://interstellar.exchange/app/#/trade/guest/XLM/native/DVC/GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

And DVC/XLM:  

https://interstellar.exchange/app/#/trade/guest/DVC/GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5/XLM/native

I haven't traded there, but it appears to be working.  
If anyone has traded there I guess they can post some feedback here.

From my understanding of the above quote, perhaps we just need to find searchable pair with the least spread and/or volume, then somehow guesstimate how much volume and/or spread is needed for all the relevant pairs (listed at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar/) to be listed in the Interstellar "Market Search" results. Note that pairs can be still found manually of course.
sr. member
Activity: 470
Merit: 350
November 04, 2019, 01:55:15 PM
My Windows wallet 0.8.5.1 (beta one from devcoin.org) keeps getting stuck at the same block when I try synching (around the time 0.8.6.0) came out for Linux and what not. Just wanted to mention that. I've got it all backed up and I actually think maybe since deveCuy mentioned to mine "1 block only" that this is something I'd have expected so no worries. (just don't forgot your windows friends when you got the time =) ). Thanks!

Thanks for the feedback realdantreccia! Regarding the Windows wallet, @K1773R has a working bundle AFAIK. Btw, people with skills to compile Devcoin on Windows and OSX are welcome to jump in to help and earn a share of the 10M Bounty: https://github.com/devcoin/core/issues/77

- develCuy
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 104
November 04, 2019, 12:48:36 PM
What is point of all this when you have no trading activity on the exchange and nobody willing to trade it against bitcoin or dollars?What is coin any use for??not so much a crypto coin

It may be interesting to note that in the years of my involvement with crypto only one BTC of my cryptfolio was ever traded for fiat. That was due to being caught in a spike in 2015 when padding a buy order on an exchange. You can call me a HODLer in the true sense of the word.

On the STEEM social media dApp, Condenser, one hears this all the time. The price of STEEM and how STEEM is over because of its price against fiat. There is still this hold over mentality that speculators are the only reason for crypto. They do not see, in STEEM's case, the fastest cheapest transactions on any blockchain out there. They do not see how the DPoS Governance of STEEM has dealt with the scalability issue. They do not see that STEEM is not so much a crypto coin as a utility token. There are games like Wizard of the Coast cards running on the STEEM blockchain that allows cards to be created, owned and traded over the same chain. There will soon be a time when people using STEEM dApps will not even know they are using a blockchain. One such dApp is under development in my hobby lab at trollkeep.com.


To see a crypto token only through the eyes of a fiat investor is very limiting in my opinion. DevCoin is a very old, secure and, almost, impossible to ursurp  blockchain. You may not see any value in it because of how much the token is presently trading against fiat. This viewpoint is shortsighted in my opinion. Although STEEM is DPoS and DevCoin is PoW, they share many simularities. They both reward content creators and both produce about the same amount of tokens annually. They are complimentary coins in my opinion. You will not be surprised to hear of me seeing great potential value in the DevCoin Blockchain; particularily in regards to the merged mining of #DevSTEEM.

This is not meant as financial advice due to the fact that crypto is a technology to me, more so than a financial vehicle. Like MarkM was told by me way back in the day when he wanted to chip in on a pizza or something with BTC. "It is a great technology, Mark, but it's not money."

In hindsight maybe we were both right.  Cool

- Nova
legendary
Activity: 3052
Merit: 1534
www.ixcoin.net
November 04, 2019, 12:28:14 PM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!

I click with them Ruskies great but for whatever reason Yobit has a long history of randomly locking wallets for a very long time (6+ months) which to me is a red flag.  But props to them for staying alive so long - it’s a real feat.


Maybe "they" are protecting "your" chain's integrity by killing it in the vault while your IXC'ys coins accrue interest. Like a CD. Maybe. How's Englewood? Probably awful compared to where you live. Those people need charity, not a court jester. Why don't you go do some looking around yourself to see. Maybe there's a chance for you yet.

They live in affirmative action America - Romanians only dream of such opportunities like one finds in Chicago and the rest of the US.

And there’s no interest earned on any ixc in Yobit wallets.  No idea what you’re saying. 

Come to DVC telegram - we have a big baller from the US you’d click with. 

t.me/DevToMe

Wiser and DevelCuy - you guys can join the above telegram too. Not sure why we’d want 2 channels. 

Cheers!

Don't think you realize how poor Chicagoans are. But oh, that's just you being you again.

Really tho?  Ever live in the east bloc?  Ever been to the hospitals and dentists here? 

Chicagoans are poor cause the idiots vote for the same leftists for decades.  And they’re lazy and refuse to take advantage of the opportunities sitting in their doorsteps.

And poor?  Pfft, forget welfare and housing assistance and all that, just foodstamps/WIC alone in the US is more than the Gross income for a full-time job in Romania.  And in Romania the food, fuel and energy cost more than in the US.  Go to all the democrat liberal ran ghettos in Chicago and you won’t find any shortage of obese “poor”. 

You guys have no idea what poor is - you have no idea what it feels like to be trapped in a country with no hope of a future or opportunities for you or your children. 

Now get off your Western pity pot and man up, son, cause I’m gonna accelerate the programme. 
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 12:13:35 PM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!

I click with them Ruskies great but for whatever reason Yobit has a long history of randomly locking wallets for a very long time (6+ months) which to me is a red flag.  But props to them for staying alive so long - it’s a real feat.


Maybe "they" are protecting "your" chain's integrity by killing it in the vault while your IXC'ys coins accrue interest. Like a CD. Maybe. How's Englewood? Probably awful compared to where you live. Those people need charity, not a court jester. Why don't you go do some looking around yourself to see. Maybe there's a chance for you yet.

They live in affirmative action America - Romanians only dream of such opportunities like one finds in Chicago and the rest of the US.

And there’s no interest earned on any ixc in Yobit wallets.  No idea what you’re saying. 

Come to DVC telegram - we have a big baller from the US you’d click with. 

t.me/DevToMe

Wiser and DevelCuy - you guys can join the above telegram too. Not sure why we’d want 2 channels. 

Cheers!

Don't think you realize how poor Chicagoans are. But oh, that's just you being you again.
legendary
Activity: 3052
Merit: 1534
www.ixcoin.net
November 04, 2019, 11:46:40 AM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!

I click with them Ruskies great but for whatever reason Yobit has a long history of randomly locking wallets for a very long time (6+ months) which to me is a red flag.  But props to them for staying alive so long - it’s a real feat.


Maybe "they" are protecting "your" chain's integrity by killing it in the vault while your IXC'ys coins accrue interest. Like a CD. Maybe. How's Englewood? Probably awful compared to where you live. Those people need charity, not a court jester. Why don't you go do some looking around yourself to see. Maybe there's a chance for you yet.

They live in affirmative action America - Romanians only dream of such opportunities like one finds in Chicago and the rest of the US.

And there’s no interest earned on any ixc in Yobit wallets.  No idea what you’re saying. 

Come to DVC telegram - we have a big baller from the US you’d click with. 

t.me/DevToMe

Wiser and DevelCuy - you guys can join the above telegram too. Not sure why we’d want 2 channels. 

Cheers!
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 11:35:55 AM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!

I click with them Ruskies great but for whatever reason Yobit has a long history of randomly locking wallets for a very long time (6+ months) which to me is a red flag.  But props to them for staying alive so long - it’s a real feat.


Maybe "they" are protecting "your" chain's integrity by killing it in the vault while your IXC'ys coins accrue interest. Like a CD. Maybe. How's Englewood? Probably awful compared to where you live. Those people need charity, not a court jester. Why don't you go do some looking around yourself to see. Maybe there's a chance for you yet.
legendary
Activity: 3052
Merit: 1534
www.ixcoin.net
November 04, 2019, 11:32:06 AM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!

I click with them Ruskies great but for whatever reason Yobit has a long history of randomly locking wallets for a very long time (6+ months) which to me is a red flag.  But props to them for staying alive so long - it’s a real feat.
legendary
Activity: 3052
Merit: 1534
www.ixcoin.net
November 04, 2019, 11:29:03 AM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Yeah. A similar problem with the Ixcoin wallet there seems to sap away all the wonderful qualities one would see in IXC if they just devoted the last two years of their life to learning as much as they could in their stupid little pee-brain/punching bag of a head - but I digress.

In fact alot of these issues seem to be resolving and you guys are doing good enough role play for me to see what coin has what problem and what chain split when and what dev "remembers" what or has "amnesia" from [insert "event"]... Thanks for teaching.

Again, punch away I do not care. It's a game after all.

Meh, how’s Englewood? 

So you do or do NOT recommend Yobit for everyone?  Thanks!
hero member
Activity: 667
Merit: 517
Fuck BlackRock
November 04, 2019, 11:23:52 AM

EDIT: Now I get it. BTW AXIOM and AXON blow my mind. Thanks for mentioning Yobit on 408 =P

Oh, what about Yobit?  You like Yobit? 

I’d personally advise against touching it.  Just a hunch.



Now, now. Don't go on being an anti-Ruskie racist.  Russian people aren't all out to get you patriotic folk.

You should blame QTUM: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11988089

IT'S HIS FAULT!
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