Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 364. (Read 1059181 times)

Weisoq, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from here.  I am not, nor will I ever be a Devcoin coder, developer, or activist.  I am perhaps an early adopter, but other than that, nothing special or remarkable for the Devcoin project.

I am a regular person who saw a banner ad saying I could earn Devcoins by writing for the Devtome, so I applied for the position and got accepted.  I have found this position to be beneficial and I'm happy to keep working in this way as long as it's mutually beneficial to me and the client, which in this case is the Devcoin project, specifically the Devtome.

There's been a lot of chatter here about whether or not the way writers are paid is truly mutually beneficial, but so far the client keeps paying and the client has not given any indication of the terms of pay changing.  If or when that happens, then I have to make a decision as to whether or not it's still beneficial to me to continue.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really care about all the other stuff.  Not only that, I'm not qualified to care because I lack adequate technical knowledge.  That's not to say I don't find it interesting or worthy of being cared about.  It's just that my involvement with the Devcoin project is as an economic unit--someone who finds having Devcoins to be economically beneficial.  The opportunity to earn them was offered and I took it.  Having earned Devcoins for a while now, I do find it to be in my best interest to contribute in some way to making Devcoin a viable currency, and I'm working on what is possible given my own capabilities.  That doesn't mean that I am qualified to make decisions or even offer opinions about the fundamentals of the project, especially the coding and high tech and gaming stuff.  I know nothing about these things and that kind of knowledge was not a condition for me getting involved.  If my vote is ever asked for I will do my best to vote in an informed manner, but so far my vote has not been asked for in any formal sense.  And I've never been given the impression that airing my opinions here counted as voting.

So given that I was never told I needed to be a computer programmer or understand how 3-D printing or high level interactive gaming works in order to join as a writer, then why is it that every single time there is some sort of problem with Devcoins, including technical coding issues, people think it's cool to dump on the writers--as if any of this were somehow our fault, or that jumping on an opportunity because it benefited us and sticking with it for the samw reason is somehow a crime against the viability of the Devcoin project?  I am not gaming the system or being passive aggressive by deferring to the decision makers of the project; I am being honest.  I am an adopter of Devcoin, and I would like to leave it at that.  While I don't know much about programming, I do know a little something about what makes a currency viable.  One thing I do know is that you need plain ordinary adopters, and lots of them, if you want your currency to get off the ground.  Well, we're here, and I at least would like to stay.  But I'm getting a bit annoyed with getting put into the scapegoat role--that was definitely not mentioned in the banner ad.  It's also not a very good way to welcome future Devcoin adopters.

is there a thread for active dvc bounties? this subforum is such an eyesore, a cursory glance didn't turn anything up. it seems to me that much of the issue surrounding devtome would be greatly mitigated by some of the other projects (mentioned above) coming together. what sort of incentives is the devcoin community providing to see that these projects happen? how can we improve on that? 

Fair points, cheers for the opinions. Devtome - yes I agree important. A more visual-arts focused repository - I don’t know what it would take, but that’s the sort of thing I’m referring to; making greater bounties/resources available for other things.

As I understand it there are several things/improvements in the works, including:

Website
Devtome
Code updates/patches
Ecommerce sites including some here: https://coinpayments.net/index.php?cmd=directory - if I've missed some nothing personal and feel free to remind everybody including me,
Exchange/trading developments
Devcoin intro video
Gaming/interactive platforms
Other open-source software projects (including those outlined by icoin/devda.ch)
All the efforts on maintaining files/servers
All the efforts on open transactions/origin Bitcoin code etc etc.

For some context, Devtome writing receives approx 75% a round of total DVC of late (and of the remainder most is admin/maintenance/files). That’s all I don’t understand, not Devcoin per se. And to be fair, some projects (like a video) are accounted for via bounties on completion - although I'd still argue that when such a large % is likely to be already alloted that creates a barrier for such ventures as even a big chunk when the pie is smaller may be off-putting. I'm not saying I'm right about any/everything, just that I'd like to know where I'm wrong.

stan: no I'd never heard of it

i am just exploring devcoin and don't use devtome. it occurs to me that devtome is actually pretty important in the scheme of the devcoin "economy" considering the state of the economy. it seems to be the only venue of its kind. if devcoin supporters want to fund open-source creations and art, there dont seem to be other venues where people can put that into motion. hence, the importance of devtome. if the total sum of work we are talking about is 1) coding projects and 2) writing, then that is the state of things.

if there was a deviantart for devcoins, i could add a whole lot... photography, animation, visual art, music. i am not much of a writer, though. what kind of bounty would it take for someone to build a deviantart for devcoins (but for music, too) -- with forum for interaction with artists and a shop to buy art/tracks with devcoins? 

That could work too. As long as if when you write more than the max payout, the words you didn't get paid for can carry over. And Advertising does need to boost for sure.

STOP!

Every time the bigger-picture issue of devtome vs all else comes up it moves onto the question of relative intra-devtome payments. This is an issue but it is not the same issue (how devtome shares are divvied up can be resolved whatever the starting sum or % is).
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Ok this is selfish but I'd really appreciate, and I think devcoin would benefit from, at least a few more posts of some other people's views aside those so far on that greater question of devcoin and devtome's worth within it - in the context of everything else required and potential - i.e. in relative terms. If most others think the status quo is fine then I can shut up and move on, otherwise share your view.

Unthinkingbit - is the current setup here to stay or do you have other ideas/suggestions?

Edit: sidhujag, didn't see your message before I posted that - nice one.

1 million from me too to whoever fixes it.

Sorry, I was too pithy/brief. The strategy should be more complex than that:
repeat (better writings >> more money) until loads of money >> more writers >> merit payment ... etc
Until then, writing by passion should do it...
Anyway, I thought it's not here the place (DevTome thread?) and the time (let's first put out the fire...) to debate the payment system.

How many coders could aggregate under some (unknown for now) project leader, and where is a ro(o)ster?
(a joke, in my culture the rooster is the leader... a vocal one)

this is very much a big part of the problem, i think. but can anyone envision a system -- a FAIR system -- that rewards better writers? i see that payouts differ based on page views/ad revenue already, but that does not do anything about the quality of writing. either writing standards should be raised (unlikely to work in practice), or the base level reward should be lowered, with opportunity for writers of high quality work to receive higher than base-level rewards.

the latter is ideal, but the problem is, how do we go about this fairly? in many organizations, this type of incentive system that we are talking about is very much at risk of falling to favoritism/nepotism. how do we keep it from becoming a system where top admins reward themselves and their friends, while leaving high quality -- possibly better -- writers in the dust?

This couldn't be more wrong. If it were right, jobs wouldn't pay better workers more money. They would pay less.

The lower the payments become, the more lower-quality workers stay and the more higher-quality workers will leave.

Really, there should be a way to determine quality of writers. There are many sites that hire freelancers that base their pay on your own skills (in that the higher-quality writers will always earn more, even for the same amount of work, because they have more knowledge of writing and are much more well-spoken).

The big issue with writer payments I've seen is that everyone is paid the same. It doesn't matter how good or bad your writing is, whether it's a well-researched article or not, etc. Putting people on that same level just leads to issues. If one person spends 3 hours researching their article before writing it, and another spends 20 minutes total on theirs, and they get paid the same, there is no real incentive for the former; they are essentially working more for less.

The last I read on the issue was a reference to the developer who worked on the updates to (I think) i0coin perhaps doing the same for devcoin. The problem was - to keep going full circle - the lack of available incentive to get it done. However, although I'm not able to appraise the required effort/knowledge needed I will contribute 1 million dvc (escrow is fine) if anybody is able to contact them and make it happen - because it doesn't look like the power of positive thought will be enough...

Maybe some "helicopter view" could help?

There are a few issues (listed in their importance order):
A - [Forever] term: create a real economy in devcoins, with it's own eco-system
(I'm preparing to sell some services for devcoins - services, so I could keep the coins and not sell them asap...)

B - Short term: How can we stop the fall (mcx...) and, if needed, improve/correct/... code
(my previous post...)

C - Long Term: better writings, more earnings (from those...), and more writers also
(I really think that lowering rewards could weed out ... well ... undesirables at least)

As You could see, there is the same dilemma between urgency and importance...

Update the codebase! 

What did the response say?

I think we are on the same page, and I know some others are too including MarkM... its not like your not being heard. I think the top priority right now is keeping it on the exchange and then finding out what to do with bounties/writing payments etc.

Yeah perhaps I could write it in my own blog, then copy that again over to devtome for some extra while hoping mcxnow dvc flow remains adequately liquid before code problems put paid to an exchange option? Yes I know that's an arbitrary cheap shot but it serves to make a point. No I don't blame you for such a dynamic existing, and no I'm not going to write an article about it.

Does not offering any opinion on the relative value of projects imply you think devtome is the most important, or that it just works too well for you to suggest otherwise?

We have a fundamental difference of opinion on all this. Devcoin et al are supposed to be progressively more de-centralised payment systems, not a self congratulatory word bucket for verbose special flowers to pay ourselves. Under that assumption, a deferral to any powers-that-be strikes me as a complete kop out, or just evidence of gaming. Which is fine, but then don't fall back on concerns over devcoin - as such an outlook is part of the problem for those who think otherwise of the potential.

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To be totally clear, I'm not anti-devtome or writers or writing, I just cannot understand the benefit of having a payment mechanism that enables one apparently-initial project to cannablise the potential and opportunities of everything else. But I keep making this point to little agreement or consensus and I'm bored of doing so.

mrca: I happen to think devtome submission should be for nothing - perhaps a notional amount for time spent editing etc aside - and any earnings based on views/advertising. i.e. catalysing self-funding/failure due to no interest, rather than subsidised by everything else.

And for those who may think that as someone who's earnt dvc for writing I'm talking out of my arse - if the system was changed to (for example, devtome as 5-10% max of total) I would be quite happy to contribute towards any feeling-hard-done-by-although-it-makes-no-sense-to-continue-like-this compensation pot, although I believe the price itself would resolve those concerns anyway.

I got a response to my email after I popped in on the chat window and said something along the lines of I hope Devcoin will remain on the exchange because that's the main alt coin I trade, etc.  Not sure if the two events were connected or not.  Just FYI...

I'm a coder and I also write. I find those activities similar (sic!).
(those for my day-job)
I also wash my kids' asses when needed...
(those for my family)
If I write for DevTome, I want my [crypto]money, if promised, but also I would do it for nothing...
Remember the spirit of the Moon Race?

Totally right!
I'm sure we (or most of us) are mature enough to focus on solving problems, as opposite to finding the escape goat (the "corporate" way).

I could also help, but my reputation is null, and usually newcomers have a trust issue to overcome, unbalanced by my skills. In other words, I'm sort of "jack of all trades", from electronics to (some) higher maths, and they (my kind) are considered less specialized. I also discover frequently that lots of "specialists" - at least in my close vicinity - know less, and are able to do lesser...

In less words: HOW CAN I HELP?

Well I did ask him if we work on the code can we come up with a plan to keep it on the exchange? Also stressed the fact that it is a growing coin with more and more vendors and keeping it on the exchange would help it grow a lot easier and faster.

No response yet.

Please do write RealSolid [email protected] and tell him all about how you were about to join but might not now because you heard the sad news that Devcoin is going to be delisted.

I think it's good for RS to get a lot of feedback that DVC will be missed because he may simply not be aware of how important it is to a lot of his customers (or potential customers).