Topic: Economic Devastation - page 18. (Read 504746 times)
The economic systems that hold us to ransom and the corrupt governments that rule us instead of serve us, are the two melting pots of failure that have plagued us for thousands of years. We need honest governance, or no government at all, I don't mean anarchy but i WOULD PREFER smaller councils, like village councils where all people come together and debate what is needed most to improve the villages etc. That would change things for the better. Stronger micro economic systems are needed instead of us all relying on big government to help us.
r0ach you are violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics which is explained in my blog.
You could be correct on a short-term horizon (and on human scale) but in the large scheme of things, it is impossible for you to be correct.
On the specifics, I believe there is more than abundant energy in the universe and mankind is clever enough to extract it.
And the decentralization of information and thus knowledge production is already revolutionizing our world. This will accelerate.
I am optimistic. Yeah we'll see the Western socialism collapse, which is good change. Along the way, we will see some negative things happen, such as potentially war, etc..
The Western world has had a long period of relative peace and affluence. Cycles dictate that must change. I don't view the future as continuous decline, rather as a cycle of up and down. Yet technology never stops improving our quality of life overall.
You could be correct on a short-term horizon (and on human scale) but in the large scheme of things, it is impossible for you to be correct.
On the specifics, I believe there is more than abundant energy in the universe and mankind is clever enough to extract it.
And the decentralization of information and thus knowledge production is already revolutionizing our world. This will accelerate.
I am optimistic. Yeah we'll see the Western socialism collapse, which is good change. Along the way, we will see some negative things happen, such as potentially war, etc..
The Western world has had a long period of relative peace and affluence. Cycles dictate that must change. I don't view the future as continuous decline, rather as a cycle of up and down. Yet technology never stops improving our quality of life overall.
I have recently started reading a book titled the Way of God: Derech Hashem
It was originally written over two hundred and fifty years ago by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto. This book caught my attention because I heard it described by someone as the most systematic exposition of monotheism fundamentals ever written yet its author claimed he received direct instruction from an otherworldly being he identified as an angel. That was a very interesting juxtaposition so I picked up a copy. Below is a passage from the book.
Once you acknowledge the possibility that information content is not orthogonal to our physical world you force a total reevaluation of the human condition. We must consider the possibility that rather than masters of the universe we are actually among the lowliest of the low.
It was originally written over two hundred and fifty years ago by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto. This book caught my attention because I heard it described by someone as the most systematic exposition of monotheism fundamentals ever written yet its author claimed he received direct instruction from an otherworldly being he identified as an angel. That was a very interesting juxtaposition so I picked up a copy. Below is a passage from the book.
Quote from: Moshe Chaim Luzzatto
We are well aware of physical things, and their natural properties and laws are well known. Spiritual concepts, on the other hand, are outside our realm of experience, and therefore cannot be adequately described...
One of these fundamentals is that everything in the physical world has a counterpart among the transcendental Forces. Every entity and process in the physical world is linked to these Forces... These Forces are therefore the roots of all physical things, and everything in the physical world is a branch and result of these Forces. The physical and the spiritual are thus bound together like links in a chain...
The existence and state of being of the physical universe thus emanate from these highest Forces and are dependent upon them. Whatever exists in the physical world is a result of something that takes place among these Forces. This is true of both what existed in the beginning and what transpires with the passage of time.
These Forces were the first things created, and they were arranged in various systems and placed in different domains. Everything that came about later was a result of this, following rules willed by God, linking these Forces to the physical world. Everything that happens in the past or present thus has its origin in processes taking place between these Forces.
The existence, state, pattern, and every other quality that exists among these Forces are a result of what is relevant to them by virtue of their essential nature. The existence, state, arrangement, and other phenomena involving physical things in turn depend on what is transmitted and reflected to them by these Forces, following the essential nature of these physical entities.
One of these fundamentals is that everything in the physical world has a counterpart among the transcendental Forces. Every entity and process in the physical world is linked to these Forces... These Forces are therefore the roots of all physical things, and everything in the physical world is a branch and result of these Forces. The physical and the spiritual are thus bound together like links in a chain...
The existence and state of being of the physical universe thus emanate from these highest Forces and are dependent upon them. Whatever exists in the physical world is a result of something that takes place among these Forces. This is true of both what existed in the beginning and what transpires with the passage of time.
These Forces were the first things created, and they were arranged in various systems and placed in different domains. Everything that came about later was a result of this, following rules willed by God, linking these Forces to the physical world. Everything that happens in the past or present thus has its origin in processes taking place between these Forces.
The existence, state, pattern, and every other quality that exists among these Forces are a result of what is relevant to them by virtue of their essential nature. The existence, state, arrangement, and other phenomena involving physical things in turn depend on what is transmitted and reflected to them by these Forces, following the essential nature of these physical entities.
Once you acknowledge the possibility that information content is not orthogonal to our physical world you force a total reevaluation of the human condition. We must consider the possibility that rather than masters of the universe we are actually among the lowliest of the low.
...
When we put all those equations together, magically the correct equation for the gravitational force is achieved, although that equation was originally derived from Newton's laws which have no concept of entropy or microstates of the bodies in consideration. Verlinde's discovery was a major revelation for Physics.
What I want to add is the insight that gravity emerges from the probability that the microstates of relative bodies of mass can't avoid dispersing some energy from the one with the higher energy (mass) to the one with less. As the bodies move closer to each other, the equations dictate the force increases, and this is because the number of equiprobably microstates is decreasing as the surface area of the imaginary sphere decreases, so relative acceleration between the two bodies must increase so as to maintain the rate of energy dispersion. Or in other words, as the bodies move closer to each other, the change in the relative entropies decreases, so the acceleration (and force) increase to compensate since the relative energy (mass) has not changed.
So the upper bound for information content (Shannon entropy) of that system of two relative bodies is directly involved in physics of the acceleration of relative bodies due to the gravitational force. So intangible information content which is a dimensionless quantity, is projected into a dimensional structure in the physical world and thus interacts with energy and forces. This is profound because it seems to hint that information content is not orthogonal to our physical world.
When we put all those equations together, magically the correct equation for the gravitational force is achieved, although that equation was originally derived from Newton's laws which have no concept of entropy or microstates of the bodies in consideration. Verlinde's discovery was a major revelation for Physics.
What I want to add is the insight that gravity emerges from the probability that the microstates of relative bodies of mass can't avoid dispersing some energy from the one with the higher energy (mass) to the one with less. As the bodies move closer to each other, the equations dictate the force increases, and this is because the number of equiprobably microstates is decreasing as the surface area of the imaginary sphere decreases, so relative acceleration between the two bodies must increase so as to maintain the rate of energy dispersion. Or in other words, as the bodies move closer to each other, the change in the relative entropies decreases, so the acceleration (and force) increase to compensate since the relative energy (mass) has not changed.
So the upper bound for information content (Shannon entropy) of that system of two relative bodies is directly involved in physics of the acceleration of relative bodies due to the gravitational force. So intangible information content which is a dimensionless quantity, is projected into a dimensional structure in the physical world and thus interacts with energy and forces. This is profound because it seems to hint that information content is not orthogonal to our physical world.
You are going to lose most readers with this because it is hard to understand without more context.
Here is the link to the original paper by Verlinde's which lays out in more detail how gravity can potentially be derived from entropy.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.0785.pdf
Quote from: Erik Verlinde
Gravity is explained as an entropic force caused by changes in the information associated with the positions of material bodies. A relativistic generalization of the presented arguments directly leads to the Einstein equations. When space is emergent even Newton’s law of inertia needs to be explained. The equivalence principle leads us to conclude that it is actually this law of inertia whose origin is entropic.
The possibility that information content is not orthogonal to our physical world is indeed profound. Indeed calling it simply profound is a vast understatement.
The prior post has been published as a blog at the blockchain blogging and crypto-currency platform Steemit:
https://steemit.com/science/@anonymint/the-golden-knowledge-age-is-rising
https://steemit.com/science/@anonymint/the-golden-knowledge-age-is-rising
I have often written a concept analogous to, “if the speed-of-light were not finite, the past would be undifferentiated from the future, space-time would collapse into an infinitesimal point, and we could not exist”.
Today I realized that statement is incorrect.
A differentiated past and future only mathematically requires that the maximum velocity of any observer can't exceed the speed-of-light, but it doesn't require that the speed-of-light be any particular value. Rather it only requires that the speed-of-light be numerable, so that we can write it into the fundamental Physics equations as some quantity other than infinity.
Mathematically any numerable value selected doesn't place a bound on the speed-of-light that could be selected by some other form of existence in the universe of unbounded possibilities.
In fact, we can pick the speed-of-light to be any value we want it to be, as it only depends on the units of measure we choose:
https://www.quora.com/If-the-Planck-constant-was-different-would-the-speed-of-light-change/answer/Barak-Shoshany
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/116439/is-there-any-relation-between-planck-constant-and-gravitational-constant#answer-116441
Studying more about how the speed-of-light is measured and confirmed and our concept of what a vacuum actually is (not totally empty space), the thought occurs (to me at least) that we can only measure the speed-of-light up the maximum resolution of our measuring devices. That doesn't mean that what we are measuring is the maximum speed-of-light but rather confirming that our arbitrary theories and concepts are confirmed by the restrictions they place on our understanding of how and what to measure! This ties in perfectly to the concept of aliasing error that I outlined in my prior comment in this thread today. Einstein is quoted, “Theory determines what we observe.”. He may have also once quipped, “If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.” but what he really meant is ‘data’ where he uses ‘facts’.
So our (perception of our) existence and the speed-of-light is entirely arbitrary and is derived from the collective theories we choose to adopt. Groupthink is a powerful phenomenon, because without it we would not perceive the existence of each other. We have to resonate on some shared theory of measurement and observation, else we would all have relative records of history which are entirely independent and lonely.
Past is relative to every observer thus does not absolutely exist, i.e. for everyone (e.g. your reality does not exist for a person who never has any knowledge of your reality), the present is always gone, and the future doesn't exist now and by the former logic can't absolutely exist once it arrives. Meaning existence is never absolute, ever, rather just a concept in the minds of those who choose to agree on some memory. Note congruently that the present is an infinitesimal point on the light cone diagram.
P.S. could someone please inform Michael Jordan that the number 23 is first prime number which is the sum of three other, consecutive, prime numbers; 5, 7 and 11.
Today I realized that statement is incorrect.
A differentiated past and future only mathematically requires that the maximum velocity of any observer can't exceed the speed-of-light, but it doesn't require that the speed-of-light be any particular value. Rather it only requires that the speed-of-light be numerable, so that we can write it into the fundamental Physics equations as some quantity other than infinity.
Mathematically any numerable value selected doesn't place a bound on the speed-of-light that could be selected by some other form of existence in the universe of unbounded possibilities.
In fact, we can pick the speed-of-light to be any value we want it to be, as it only depends on the units of measure we choose:
https://www.quora.com/If-the-Planck-constant-was-different-would-the-speed-of-light-change/answer/Barak-Shoshany
http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/116439/is-there-any-relation-between-planck-constant-and-gravitational-constant#answer-116441
Studying more about how the speed-of-light is measured and confirmed and our concept of what a vacuum actually is (not totally empty space), the thought occurs (to me at least) that we can only measure the speed-of-light up the maximum resolution of our measuring devices. That doesn't mean that what we are measuring is the maximum speed-of-light but rather confirming that our arbitrary theories and concepts are confirmed by the restrictions they place on our understanding of how and what to measure! This ties in perfectly to the concept of aliasing error that I outlined in my prior comment in this thread today. Einstein is quoted, “Theory determines what we observe.”. He may have also once quipped, “If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.” but what he really meant is ‘data’ where he uses ‘facts’.
So our (perception of our) existence and the speed-of-light is entirely arbitrary and is derived from the collective theories we choose to adopt. Groupthink is a powerful phenomenon, because without it we would not perceive the existence of each other. We have to resonate on some shared theory of measurement and observation, else we would all have relative records of history which are entirely independent and lonely.
Past is relative to every observer thus does not absolutely exist, i.e. for everyone (e.g. your reality does not exist for a person who never has any knowledge of your reality), the present is always gone, and the future doesn't exist now and by the former logic can't absolutely exist once it arrives. Meaning existence is never absolute, ever, rather just a concept in the minds of those who choose to agree on some memory. Note congruently that the present is an infinitesimal point on the light cone diagram.
Damn it is becoming a feely goodly reunion party. I thought I was going to have this place all to my disgruntled, derangulated self.
P.S. could someone please inform Michael Jordan that the number 23 is first prime number which is the sum of three other, consecutive, prime numbers; 5, 7 and 11.
You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.
I will be the first to admit I needed a week to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint.
The Rise of Knowledge
Understand Everything Fundamentally
Together these are quite simply the most insightful piece of economic theory I have ever read.
If the author is right and I think he is we are all in the midst of a tragedy of epic proportions...
I (AnonyMint aka Shelby Moore III) want to again thank CoinCube for appreciating my original essays. I haven't been able to write and think at that level lately due to illness and chaotic unraveling of my life (finances, etc) as a result.
Today I wrote something which I think explains some of the frustration I have had in my life in terms trying to communicate on forums. I am responding to Eric S Raymond, who claims he has a 166 IQ.
Quote from: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7032#comment-1690949
Quote from: ESR aka Eric S Raymond
Unsurprising. I too can only perceive one undifferentiated stratum above the one I’m in
Could that be an aliasing phenomenon? Analogous to your example of constructing more complex generative models matching subsets while playing the game Zendo, isn’t it possible that a higher capacity thinker may construct more complex relationships which are invisible to someone who can’t sample the model space at the Nyquist limit of the frequency of model instantiation of the higher genius stratum. You’ll agree on the conclusion (subset) with the higher genius stratum, but this doesn’t detect whether the higher genius employed a more complex model to arrive at the same conclusion. To test this hypothesis, I considered the scenario when the higher genius’ model generates an answer contrary to your conclusion. I’ve experienced this where my conclusions are labeled wrong because the others are unable to load the model that is in my head, and I am unable to communicate the model to them. The only way I am able to get them to acquiesce is where I can show an example failure scenario for their conclusions. Invariably in a group politics setting, they will dismiss this case as insignificant, because they can’t understand its frequency of occurrence in my more complex model. So I am again unable to convince them and they learn only by failure in the market; and by then they blame the failure on other incidental issues because again they could not model the phenomenon in the higher complexity model. The only instances where I succeed to win the argument is when I can convey a slamdunk failure mode of their conclusions (a point sample in the Shannon-Nyquist space) which was illuminated to me by my model. Yet they still haven’t grasped the model so they go flailing around looking for other conclusions than the one I provided. That is indeed aliasing error. So the higher genius is likely to say nothing instead, because he knows it is useless to speak. Note I doubt I am even a Fowler class genius, because of my underdeveloped language capabilities. Go figure?
Listening to Freeman Dyson he seems mostly undifferentiated to me. And interestingly (noted in the Charlie Rose interview) he is somewhat reserved when he speaks as if I can sense he is carefully choosing what the audience could appreciate. Except for example I can detect he is thinking about much more complex relationships, when he says, “I don’t have much faith in predictions. Science is organized on predictability…scientists arrange things in an experiment to be unpredictable as possible and then do the experiment to see what will happen. You might say that if something is predictable, then it is not science”. Note the logical implication of the long-tail undecidability of science in the juxtaposition of his opening phrase with the ending one. Whoever didn’t detect that, is likely not a genius.
Btw, I had another example of the above described phenomenon this week.
And make sure you read the "Meta" verbiage at the end of my comment immediately above the linked one.
P.S. I posted the above quoted comment at ESR's blog under the pseudonymous author name ‘vacuous’ and with the email address submitted as, “[email protected]”.
What a useful thread, really! I have read that soon we'll suffer from the financial crisis that will be the worst the world has seen since the Great Depression of the 1930s. By accident, I've found a great article on this topic - http://planetaryproject.com/global_problems/economic/ . Hope, you'll find it useful too!
It was one of our founding fathers (USA) that said words to the effect of that our country could only remain free if we were a "moral people".
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Benjamin Franklin
“Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks, no form of government, can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men; so that we do not depend upon their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them.” - James Madison
“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.” - George Washington
Quote from: Earl Taylor
Modern Americans have long since forgotten the heated and sometimes violent debates which took place in the thirteen colonies between 1775 and 1776 over the issue of morality. For many thousands of Americans the big question of independence hung precariously on the single, slender thread of whether or not the people were sufficiently “virtuous and moral” to govern themselves. Self-government was generally referred to as “republicanism,” and it was universally acknowledged that a corrupt and selfish people could never make the principles of republicanism operate successfully.
https://nccs.net/2015-03-only-a-virtuous-people-are-capable-of-freedom
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/tozer/5j00.0010/5j00.0010.11.htm
"I am among those who believe that our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it.
...
Sin is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul and was not accountable for his moral choices.
Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist."
-A.W. Tozer 1897-1963
"I am among those who believe that our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it.
...
Sin is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul and was not accountable for his moral choices.
Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist."
-A.W. Tozer 1897-1963
It was one of our founding fathers (USA) that said words to the effect of that our country could only remain free if we were a "moral people".
Oh well. Looks like we are very close to "America v. 2"
Enjoy...
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/tozer/5j00.0010/5j00.0010.11.htm
"I am among those who believe that our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it.
...
Sin is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul and was not accountable for his moral choices.
Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist."
-A.W. Tozer 1897-1963
"I am among those who believe that our Western civilization is on its way to perishing. It has many commendable qualities, most of which it has borrowed from the Christian ethic, but it lacks the element of moral wisdom that would give it permanence. Future historians will record that we of the twentieth century had intelligence enough to create a great civilization but not the moral wisdom to preserve it.
...
Sin is always an act of wrong judgment. To commit a sin a man must for the moment believe that things are different from what they really are; he must confound values; he must see the moral universe out of focus; he must accept a lie as truth and see truth as a lie; he must ignore the signs on the highway and drive with his eyes shut; he must act as if he had no soul and was not accountable for his moral choices.
Sin is never a thing to be proud of. No act is wise that ignores remote consequences, and sin always does. Sin sees only today, or at most tomorrow; never the day after tomorrow, next month or next year. Death and judgment are pushed aside as if they did not exist."
-A.W. Tozer 1897-1963
Well that's Zerohedge. Nothing new under the sun. I have to warn you, though: reading too much Zerohedge might end up with you building a nuclear fallout shelter in your garden.
long on shovels and cement.They say even a stopped watch is correct twice a day. The challenge as always is figuring out exactly when that is.
As my expertise in such predictions is limited I have adopted a relatively simple strategy of dividing my resources between gold, bitcoin, and debt payments at a fixed ratio. A strategy of minimal regret if you will.
The thread may be two years old, but we have only just crossed the turning point of 2015.75 and alot has happened since then.
Don't be afraid of the future, we will have our chance to rise from the ashes as free people or as slaves.
Fight for what you believe in, social media is an extremely powerful tool for exposing how the filth operates behind the scenes, and even a monkey can use it.
There will be a time for civil disobedience, and you will know when that is because the system will suffocate every aspect of your life.
Only if you allow it, don't die on your knees.
Don't be afraid of the future, we will have our chance to rise from the ashes as free people or as slaves.
Fight for what you believe in, social media is an extremely powerful tool for exposing how the filth operates behind the scenes, and even a monkey can use it.
There will be a time for civil disobedience, and you will know when that is because the system will suffocate every aspect of your life.
Only if you allow it, don't die on your knees.
Two years old thread about economic devastation, and everything is still the same. If I remember good, stories about economic devastation are for decades among us. I'm not afraid and I think all economic crisis are just manipulation. Certain people make this kind of manipulation to gain profit, and to establish new order that suits there needs.
Also this kind of stories are here to make people live in constant fear, and when people live in fear of future they dont try to rebel against the system.
World is one big stage, and we are just little players on the board.
Also this kind of stories are here to make people live in constant fear, and when people live in fear of future they dont try to rebel against the system.
World is one big stage, and we are just little players on the board.
I have to warn you, though: reading too much Zerohedge might end up with you building a nuclear fallout shelter in your garden.
It's called sweat equity;)
Nice article on gold today in ZeroHedge
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-11/one-simple-reason-why-gold-can-still-jump-50
It touches on a number of concepts discussed in this thread including the limitations of passive capital. Overall it is quite bullish on gold. I agree with the overall analysis.
Well that's Zerohedge. Nothing new under the sun. I have to warn you, though: reading too much Zerohedge might end up with you building a nuclear fallout shelter in your garden. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-11/one-simple-reason-why-gold-can-still-jump-50
It touches on a number of concepts discussed in this thread including the limitations of passive capital. Overall it is quite bullish on gold. I agree with the overall analysis.
Devastation ahead or will humans find a way to cope?
The Chinese curse may you live in interesting times.
Appears we will have mini ice age from 2020 - 2055 and global religious war from 2036 forward.
My golden years may not be so golden.
The Chinese curse may you live in interesting times.
Appears we will have mini ice age from 2020 - 2055 and global religious war from 2036 forward.
My golden years may not be so golden.
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