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Topic: Economic Totalitarianism - page 83. (Read 345738 times)

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
August 16, 2015, 12:07:54 AM

So thus the proposed ICO method has been abandoned. There is an obviously simple solution. I don't think it is necessary to state it.


This is probably a dumb question, but I would be interested in hearing the solution you propose. I read through the last few pages and didn't see this clarified.

That is not a dumb question   Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
August 15, 2015, 11:16:38 PM

So thus the proposed ICO method has been abandoned. There is an obviously simple solution. I don't think it is necessary to state it.


This is probably a dumb question, but I would be interested in hearing the solution you propose. I read through the last few pages and didn't see this clarified.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 06:51:59 PM

During the lost era where physical trade was the economy, precious metals represented physical value.

No one is measuring knowledge value in units of precious metals.

Gold simply does not back anything any more because it no longer correlates to the intangible knowledge that is valuable in an era where knowledge moves the economy.

Back your lost era, knowledge was less important than land ownership, number of head of cattle, etc..

Also we are in era where digital reach is ubiquitous geographically, thus there is no place to hide from the fact that governments want to be able to tax and physical gold as untraceable cash would prevent them from doing so. Thus governments will fight gold as cash and besides for the reasons I stated above, gold is not a representation of value any more in the knowledge age.

Gold is hanging on because the physical industrial age is not quite dead yet. But gold is fading fast.

The physical economy is fading away in relative value (relative to knowledge creation value). It won't too long from now that physically manufactured items will be nearly free.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
I find it stranges he doesnt mention the need for anonymity

I don't. He was specifically focused on the block size debate.
hero member
Activity: 723
Merit: 503
August 15, 2015, 06:32:28 PM
On Aug 15, 2015, Satoshi Nakamoto publicly asked (me) to fix Bitcoin:


Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
However I acknowledge that a lot has changed since that time, and new knowledge has been gained that contradicts some of my early opinions.  For example I didn't anticipate pooled mining and its effects on the security of the network.  Making Bitcoin a competitive monetary system while also preserving its security properties is not a trivial problem, and we should take more time to come up with a robust solution.  I suspect we need a better incentive for users to run nodes instead of relying solely on altruism.

I find it stranges he doesnt mention the need for anonymity
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 05:47:43 PM
On Aug 15, 2015, Satoshi Nakamoto publicly asked (me) to fix Bitcoin:


BTC did not move up much with gold's move up to $1117. Gold paused and BTC made a lower low (relative to recent). It appears BTC does not want to rally with gold. Thus is looking very weak.

Satoshi even spoke out on Aug 15 about the danger of GavinCoin. (Either the real Satoshi posted or someone with enough hacking skills or influence posted from his former email account, thus either way someone is expending precious resource to make a point about how serious this is)

I am not sure what to make of all this, except that overall gold and BTC are correlated and that both are headed for extreme lows by Spring 2016 (based on Armstrong's gold low prediction).
sr. member
Activity: 268
Merit: 256
August 15, 2015, 05:11:10 PM
"Gold goes into hiding only if the private sector has enough power to avoid the government and continue commerce else where. "
"No hyperinflation, just deflation."

I fink u freeky. I really cannot get inside your head on this, and I
doubt I have the right to even try to get you to see things differently.
For the record, I'll clarify a few loose ends.

a)i. I recall a legend, maybe King Croesus or King Midas. He had got himself
into financial trouble. He solved the problem by asking his creditors to
bring with them the value of his debts in gold coin. When the creditors arrived
the gold was taken from them and the values of the coins over-stamped. What was
"1" became "2". What happened afterwards was not mentioned. I will explain
the relevance of this below.

b)i. Imperial Rome had a problem with debasement of its silver coinage.
b)ii. Beginning from around 225AD onwards, (and earlier, but a separate problem)
normal commerce began to be replaced by barter, and taxation was somewhat
replaced by appropriation. After an attempt at reform in 275AD matters began
to really fall apart from 300AD onwards.
b)iii. Around this time, by edict and by practice, a gold bar was worth more
than the equivalent weight in gold coins, causing the government to demand that
dues be part paid in gold.(see Prodromodidis - Nr85 p19) At that point Rome
was rejecting the legitimacy of its own "silver" currency in part, arguably a
default on its debts.
I am seeking here to distinguish between actions of the State on the one hand
to control inflation, and on the other to manage its financial obligations.
"A measure of Egyptian wheat, for example, which sold for seven to eight
drachmaes in the second century now sold for 120,000 drachmaes." Bartlett,
(incorrectly) referencing the end of the third century.
(see https://mises.org/library/price-fixing-ancient-rome for better work
on dates, their economics are at best questionable)
b)iv. Caesar crossed the Rubicon in 49BC, entered Rome, and seized the Roman
Treasury held in the Temple of Saturn. (Anyone else noticed that banks try to
emulate our folk-memory of Temples?) Temples seemed to be relatively safe from
pillage by successive Emperors, hence by the time Diocletian became Emperor,
gold had gravitated there. Hence there was a financial incentive for a new
Emperor to convert to Christianity. A conversion that would give Constantine
free rein (excuse the pun) to plunder pagan resources, something to consider
when thinking about the events 312-335AD, and the founding of the Byzantine
empire.

c)i. A notable omission from your text was mention of the 1933 executive order
criminalising "the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership,
association or corporation" within the continental United States. This appears
to be a modern version of a)i above. It may be more complicated than it
already appears. Allegedly in 1932 $1,233,844,000.00  of foreign gold left the
USA, and in 1937 $1,139,672,000.00 returned. (World Almanac).
Complications aside, this was a transfer of power from the citizen to the State,
or more precisely, from the citizens to the banks. I have not read up on this
criminalisation of ownership to make any further comment, but it would seem to
fall into the class of gold in hiding.

As I said above, I am not trying to change or influence thinking, I find I
cannot see the world through TPTBNW's eyes sometimes, and I find that intriguing.

Also, this is not advice on gold as an investment. DYOR.

And a couple of separate matters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/middle_ages/henryii_law_01.shtml
"Thirdly, a frequently used test of the existence of the state is that it
should have a monopoly of legitimate violence. In the middle ages - as in
all societies - law was only one method of resolving disputes."
See also Brehon Law - the definition of "legitimate" can be surprisingly
flexible. It seems more a method of classification than a definition.

@TPTBNW - congratulations on your milestone.
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1852
August 15, 2015, 03:27:10 PM
...

TPTB

Now that's just NASTY..., posting pictures like that on "my" thread!

Wink

But, point taken.  blockchain.info ought to not be so cozy with a .gov Chieftain.  Might make blockchain.info wallet users wonder how safe their info and BTC is.....
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
Traitor! We must replace this shit company. Not with politics. With superior code.

The plutocrats are pushing for their NWO electronic (digital) currency. Yet another clue of where GavinCoin is headed.

http://blog.blockchain.com/2015/08/08/bitcoin-news-for-the-week-of-8315/

Quote
Blockchain CEO Peter Smith traveled to SE Asia with British Prime Minister David Cameron and other fintech executives to speak with senior regulators, bank CEOs, and telecommunications executives about the future we are working towards as an industry. - See more at: http://blog.blockchain.com/#sthash.ggmqlh9f.dpuf

sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 01:55:17 PM

This chart is so sad. What happen in the past that now we have so low compensation for increased productivity? World supposed to be evolving, not devolving.
Exactly this problem is touching every major economy. And China is trying to keep it that way.

Let's fight back and win.

I use bitcoin because I want to earn anonymously online. It's also a good investment and I like low transaction fees of bitcoin

I love you because I am formerly AnonyMint and since 2013 my goal has been to add more anonymity to cryptoland. Thanks for validating my thesis about a coming glorious, anonymous Knowledge Age.

What I see people essentially saying in this thread is that Bitcoin is autonomous. They can get access to it, spend as anonymously as they take the care to obscure their IP address, and use it without any permission or without obtaining any account with some authority. In short, permission-less commerce (do what you like, no big brother with his dick up your ass!). Most of the terms above fall under the "autonomy" umbrella taxonomy.

In my case, I don't have a utility bill matching my current address because I rent. And so I can't comply with the asinine Patriot Act KYC identification requirements that exchanges and financial institutions impose. So no worries, I just go place a buy order on localbitcoins, then go deposit some cash in a local bank and I get the BTC released an hour or so later.

Later as the bankrupted Western governments start to limit more how much money you can get out per day from your ATM account (e.g. Greece is an example of what is coming to every Western nation because they are all broke), then if you are holding crypto-currency you can sidestep these restrictions.

However, do note that Bitcoin is not reliably anonymous (unless you are for example connecting via a unregistered, public WiFi connection) as your IP address can be traced back to your identity (and Tor and I2P don't really stop the national security agencies from tracking your identity on the block chain) and so the authorities will one day in the future be clawing back against you prosecuting you for violating their regulations by using Bitcoin.

This is why I (formerly username AnonyMint since 2013) support the development of altcoins with more robust built in anonymity. Many users will not appreciate the need for this until later when so many Bitcoin users are being busted for past activity all stored on the block chain.

You should understand what this productivity is made of. If we substitute one group of machines with more productive ones, why should the increase in productivity be reflected in the increase in wages?

Because knowledge creation is where all the value is added. The manufacturing is headed towards a zero margin economy.

But knowledge creation is not the same as non-supervisory compensation, right?

Agree. Knowledge creation is being held back to some extent by a $227 trillion global debt funded socialism turning into totalitarianism as a way to prevent adjustment from the Industrial Age and force an NWO eugenics outcome so the old world fat cats can retain power, because the Knowledge Age can't be financed with usury so those bastards are trying to kill it, but they will fail.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 09:23:35 AM
What I see people essentially saying in this thread is that Bitcoin is autonomous. They can get access to it, spend as anonymously as they take the care to obscure their IP address, and use it without any permission or without obtaining any account with some authority. In short, permission-less commerce (do what you like, no big brother with his dick up your ass!). Most of the terms above fall under the "autonomy" umbrella taxonomy.

In my case, I don't have a utility bill matching my current address because I rent. And so I can't comply with the asinine Patriot Act KYC identification requirements that exchanges and financial institutions impose. So no worries, I just go place a buy order on localbitcoins, then go deposit some cash in a local bank and I get the BTC released an hour or so later.

Later as the bankrupted Western governments start to limit more how much money you can get out per day from your ATM account (e.g. Greece is an example of what is coming to every Western nation because they are all broke), then if you are holding crypto-currency you can sidestep these restrictions.

However, do note that Bitcoin is not reliably anonymous (unless you are for example connecting via a unregistered, public WiFi connection) as your IP address can be traced back to your identity (and Tor and I2P don't really stop the national security agencies from tracking your identity on the block chain) and so the authorities will one day in the future be clawing back against you prosecuting you for violating their regulations by using Bitcoin.

This is why I (formerly username AnonyMint since 2013) support the development of altcoins with more robust built in anonymity. Many users will not appreciate the need for this until later when so many Bitcoin users are being busted for past activity all stored on the block chain.

Ease of access, constant availability and low transaction fees are my 3 picks. This is where Bitcoin would beat by far Fiat and this is why Bitcoin will survive and be competitive in the future. My money should be there when I want it and I should be able to spend it when and how I want it.

Autonomy again. Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Knowledge could but approximate existence.
August 15, 2015, 03:46:31 AM
New coin? When well be started? Any link?

PM TPTB_need_war to find that information.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
August 15, 2015, 03:45:38 AM
Pls no more talking about my work in this thread. That is what private messages are for. Thanks.
full member
Activity: 308
Merit: 109
August 15, 2015, 03:39:15 AM
    • Instant 0-conf transactions that can't be double-spent with any of the typical attacks on Bitcoin.
    • Holy grail of on chain anonymity (superior to Cryptonote).
    • No more 51% attack possible.

    Could someone tell me, what this is about?

    New coin? When well be started? Any link?
    sr. member
    Activity: 378
    Merit: 250
    Knowledge could but approximate existence.
    August 15, 2015, 03:09:41 AM
    But you do not exist, you are an annoying figment of my imagination which is God's since I am the alpha and omega of reality--thanks for confirming my omnipotence.

    "I" references the self-concept one maintains about it. "You" references that which it maintains about another. In both cases, the (unknowable) real facilitates that maintenance.
    legendary
    Activity: 1750
    Merit: 1036
    Facts are more efficient than fud
    August 15, 2015, 03:00:41 AM


    Quote from: Eric Schwitzgebel, Alan T. Moore; Abstract; "Experimental Evidence for the Existence of an External World"; 2014
    In the first experiment, I exhibit unreliable judgment about the primeness or divisibility of four-digit numbers, in contrast to a seeming Excel program. In the second experiment, I exhibit an imperfect memory for arbitrary-seeming three-digit number and letter combinations, in contrast to my seeming collaborator with seemingly hidden notes. In the third experiment, I seem to suffer repeated defeats at chess. In all three experiments, the most straightforward interpretation of the experiential evidence is that something exists in the universe that is superior in the relevant respects – theoretical reasoning (about primes), memorial retention (for digits and letters), or practical reasoning (at chess) – to my own solipsistically-conceived self.

    Schwitzgebel and Moore presume the memories referenced in the citation above to be veridical. (Essentially, they neglect the assertion of Russell's Five Minute World Hypothesis within their specious present.)


    For philosophical hyperrealism: "Ex nihilo nihil fit; therefore, the real (here, undefinable [think: epistemological NaN]) begets the specious present."

    Thanks for replying to what wasn't cited. Convolutions wrapped in self-diagnosing enigmas. But you do not exist, you are an annoying figment of my imagination which is God's since I am the alpha and omega of reality--thanks for confirming my omnipotence. Back to ignore for you sad delusion.

    Note: I see usernameunoriginal is posting after I told him I put him ignore. The reason i disengage from reductionist is the same reason some dogs don't chase their own tail. If I can't realize that it is my own (and it's not my first time chasing tails) I'm just going to exhaust my energy running in circles. And if i realize that is my own, what's the point? Either way I save time and energy better used elsewhere. When he's caught his tail, someone let me know and i'll take him off ignore again. Wink
    sr. member
    Activity: 378
    Merit: 250
    Knowledge could but approximate existence.
    August 15, 2015, 01:45:03 AM


    Quote from: Eric Schwitzgebel, Alan T. Moore; Abstract; "Experimental Evidence for the Existence of an External World"; 2014
    In the first experiment, I exhibit unreliable judgment about the primeness or divisibility of four-digit numbers, in contrast to a seeming Excel program. In the second experiment, I exhibit an imperfect memory for arbitrary-seeming three-digit number and letter combinations, in contrast to my seeming collaborator with seemingly hidden notes. In the third experiment, I seem to suffer repeated defeats at chess. In all three experiments, the most straightforward interpretation of the experiential evidence is that something exists in the universe that is superior in the relevant respects – theoretical reasoning (about primes), memorial retention (for digits and letters), or practical reasoning (at chess) – to my own solipsistically-conceived self.

    Schwitzgebel and Moore presume the memories referenced in the citation above to be veridical. (Essentially, they neglect the assertion of Russell's Five Minute World Hypothesis within their specious present.)


    For philosophical hyperrealism: "Ex nihilo nihil fit; therefore, the real (here, undefinable [think: epistemological NaN]) begets the specious present."
    legendary
    Activity: 1750
    Merit: 1036
    Facts are more efficient than fud
    August 15, 2015, 01:34:16 AM
    Philosophical hyperrealism is a contrapositive of epistemological nihilism: epistemological nihilism asserts "no [extant] thing is knowable"; philosophical hyperrealism asserts "[every extant thing] is unknowable."

    Dualism is I think the more accurate term similar to the concept of covariance vs. contravariance in the Liskov Substitution Principle or inductive vs. co-inductive structures in math and logic.

    For example in Haskell, the top of all of the types is _|_ (Bottom, i.e. it is all types simultaneously!) whereas in most computer languages the top of all types is Any (it can be any type), i.e. when you cast to (void *) in C.

    To express infinity in an inductive representation, you have a starting point and you enumerate an inductive operation from each point to create another point, e.g. the natural numbers are the recurrence relation:

    nat = nat + 0

    To express infinity in a co-inductive representation, there is an unknown ending point (that is never reached) and a function to return another point of the series. For example streams in computer science are co-inductive. You open a handle to the I/O streams and read input from it until you receive an EOF (end of file).

    We hyperrealists say that we can have things, but we don't assert that we have complete control over them and we view the world as an inductive conjunction of global and local entropy. You nihilists say that we don't have any things.

    So this is why you think all our efforts are in vain. But I hope you've just realized that it is just a dualism and thus you are neither more correct than we are (and vice versa). And thus the debate between you and RealBitcoin in the Economic Devastation thread about the importance of property rights.



    Interesting read on reality:

    darkecologies.com/2015/08/12/stanislaw-lems-proof-of-an-independent-reality/
    sr. member
    Activity: 420
    Merit: 262
    August 15, 2015, 01:07:06 AM
    Philosophical hyperrealism is a contrapositive of epistemological nihilism: epistemological nihilism asserts "no [extant] thing is knowable"; philosophical hyperrealism asserts "[every extant thing] is unknowable."

    Dualism is I think the more accurate term similar to the concept of covariance vs. contravariance in the Liskov Substitution Principle or inductive vs. co-inductive structures in math and logic.

    For example in Haskell, the top of all of the types is _|_ (Bottom, i.e. it is all types simultaneously!) whereas in most computer languages the top of all types is Any (it can be any type), i.e. when you cast to (void *) in C.

    To express infinity in an inductive representation, you have a starting point and you enumerate an inductive operation from each point to create another point, e.g. the natural numbers are the recurrence relation:

    nat = nat + 0

    To express infinity in a co-inductive representation, there is an unknown ending point (that is never reached) and a function to return another point of the series. For example streams in computer science are co-inductive. You open a handle to the I/O streams and read input from it until you receive an EOF (end of file).

    We hyperrealists say that we can have things, but we don't assert that we have complete control over them and we view the world as an inductive conjunction of global and local entropy. You nihilists say that we don't have any things.

    So this is why you think all our efforts are in vain. But I hope you've just realized that it is just a dualism and thus you are neither more correct than we are (and vice versa). And thus the debate between you and RealBitcoin in the Economic Devastation thread about the importance of property rights.

    sr. member
    Activity: 378
    Merit: 250
    Knowledge could but approximate existence.
    August 15, 2015, 12:52:45 AM
    I love you because I am formerly AnonyMint and since 2013 my goal has been to add more anonymity to cryptoland. Thanks for validating my thesis about a coming glorious, anonymous Knowledge Age.



    Philosophical hyperrealism is a complete epistemological nihilism: epistemological nihilism asserts "One cannot know the real," but philosophical hyperrealism adds "However, the real is, for ex nihilo nihil fit."
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