Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 101. (Read 38982 times)

His tweet represent what the people need to do at the bear market. We don't know how long it takes, it can happen within 2 years or above 3 years. The market can change any time. As per my understanding about the market there is chance of large scale bounce within two years time, because the halving falls in that time period. We can expect something good during those days prior/after halving.

That is what some people always fail to understand, the best time to buy or advocate for bitcoin is time like this when people are afraid to buy and wait for the next all-time-high. Salvadorans needs to know all these, you can check my later post about this. Some people will fail to buy and wait for like 2 years or 3 year and later after all-time-high, they will say the should have bought bitcoin at certain low price in the past.

Just like you meant, El Salvador is not going to do that. Thanks to their leader like their president, Nayib Bukele, minister of finance, Alejandro Zelaya and others that have learnt bitcoin price history and how bitcoin invest should be after losses (although no losses until they sell). They are there to help Salvadorans to know the true value of bitcoin and yet fiat remain accepted and working just like other countries that are bitcoin friendly, what people do not want to understand.

Your account was just created some days ago, probably you also start to know about bitcoin some days or weeks ago, you have a lot to learn before making conclusion.

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I think Nayib Bukele is right about this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1538356901297143809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw



It is a good advice, also a time for people that can hold for long like 2 or 3 years to buy bitcoin. I understand that price downturn can result to panic and uncertainty for new people but who buy at risky time like this when bitcoin has significantly decrease will not lose in long term.

I wonder how the price crash affects El Salvador, other than losing a lot of the fiat money that was invested into Bitcoin.

Huh?  You seem to be talking about something else.

El Salvador implemented a law that made bitcoin legal tender.

Yes, there are a variety of implementation questions, but those implementation questions are about bitcoin and bitcoin related matters.

When people use the term crypto, they are either just being vague in terms of not knowing how to employ the word bitcoin into their language, or they deceptively talking about something that is not bitcoin, such as shitcoins.

Let's not get into technicalities, just clear up your language jokers10 so we can attempt to understand if you are talking about bitcoin or some other topic..


What's your point?  lighting network (LN) is a way of transmitting, storing and facilitating various services on bitcoin.. sure it is a slightly different thing than bitcoin, but it is related to bitcoin, and a way to attempt to utilize bitcoin... in terms of not being bitcoin, who gives any ratts' asses about that?  You seem to be getting distracted if you are proclaiming that LN is not sufficiently bitcoin, so therefore you can vaguely refer to all kinds of other bullshit including but not limited to vague use of the term crypto.. as if it is some kind of an opening to speak in gobbledy gook.. and I have some difficulties why you are even trying to defend your use of the term.. .. can you at least try to clarify what you mean and put bitcoin in there and maybe repost what you were trying to say.. if you actually were trying to speak about bitcoin rather than just purposefully propagating confusion regarding what points you might have had, if any?

I don't really mean to be confrontational, but your choice to double down on seemingly meaningless mumbo-jumbo does not come off as really helpful in getting anywhere either...


Are you talking about bitcoin or what?  Maybe you can clarify?  It is not just about technically attempting to be a purist about word choice, but trying to figure out what are you talking about exactly? 

Sure there have been some criticisms that the El Salvador government did not make enough efforts to educate people about various aspects of their implementation of the bitcoin law, but a lot of those accusations are vague because there seems to be all kinds of activities around the fact that the bitcoin law has been implemented in the first place and even the fact that the law has provided a kind of space in which it becomes way easier to learn about bitcoin as a topic and also to actually apply it whether individually or various institutions or businesses. I doubt that there is any rush to force people to learn, so there is likely a lot of back and forth in terms of a lot of different efforts that sometimes might come through governmental actions and mandates and implementation measures, and the various ways that individuals and other non-governmental actors are taking actions too.

Again, maybe you can attempt to specify what it is that you are talking about and how it relates to what you envision to be happening in El Salvador in relation to bitcoin?  Yeah, of course there is the Chivo wallet and there are other wallets too, and we have seen some various posts about some of the data related to expanded usage of various bitcoin related systems in El Salvador, but we have also seen reports and claims that there might be some concerns that adoption is happening too slow or that the population is overly confused about what is bitcoin, and even you suggested that these matters take time.. but you did not use the word bitcoin so it became a bit more difficult trying to figure out what you might have been contemplating to be going on in El Salvador or what they were doing there back to your choice to ongoingly use of such vague term such as crypto.


Why not use the term bitcoin then, if that is what you were talking about?  It does not make you appear smarter or more academic or detached to use a vague term such as crypto if you are really talking about bitcoin.   Do you have some other reason to not use the term bitcoin so we know that's what you meant?


I already responded to the idea that there might be times in which some clarification might be needed in regards to bitcoin as compared with shitcoins or that some wallets might have shitcoin features, but I still doubt that learning about various shitcoins would be central to whatever the Salvadorean government is trying to achieve or any of the non-governmental organizations that are focused on various aspects of helping to educate Salvadorean people regarding El Salvador's bitcoin law implementation.  It could be in some sense that we might be quibbling, about how any particular education campaign might be framed or the kinds of subjects that might come up and choices that individuals might take in terms of how to present various bitcoin-related topics in El Salvador, but I still doubt any characterization that they have goals to teach about "crypto" in El Salvador or that it is even a good way of trying to describe what has already happened in El Salvador, what the state on the ground in El Salvador is right now and/or what they are trying to do in El Salvador to work towards their bitcoin adoption future. 

At the risk of repeating myself too much, yeah of course, shitcoins are in El Salvador and striving to get their little scams into El Salvador, but El Salvador specifically choose to write their law in a way that is bitcoin specific, and shitcoins are different than bitcoin in a lot of ways.. bringing us back to the question about why use the word "crypto" when trying to describe what is happening in El Salvador related to bitcoin.. back to you jokers10?


Huh?

There's nothing wrong for the El Salvadorean government and or related entities to continue to press forward with their bitcoin information and various aspect of their bitcoin implementation.  Frequently, a lot of work can get done during times in which BTC prices are suppressed.  Of course, current spot price and ongoing dynamics related to BTC spot price is not comfortable for everyone, but I doubt that there is any need to just shut it off, wind it down or whatever other depression-based approach you are suggesting to be the better way forward.  Maybe we should just recommend that the El Salvadorean government just shut the whole thing down, like the IMF suggested that they do.. ?  The IMF is correct, right?  El Salvador should have never gotten involved in such a wild and crazy idea like bitcoin, right? That's the better way to go forward?

This is not the best time for Bitcoin advocacy in and around El Salvador, as the Bitcoin adoption has been viewed as a bad idea by some segments of El Salvadorans because of its volatile nature, and seeing the present Bitcoin price conditions make it hard to b advocate for Bitcoin retail adoption. But before now we all saw how the whole internet and the Bitcoin community was engorged with El Salvador Bitcoin sermons not until the market took a downturn at the beginning of the year 2022.

Not really of the assests, but rather of the value of those assets, measured in counter-valued fiat terms … but only on the books to date, since they are unrealized losses until they actually sell their BTCs.

That doesn’t mean that the situation is not worrying at some level for them, not only from the perception perspective, but also from the bookkeeping point of view. The bitcoins owned by the government allegedly came from the initial 150M $ bitcoin Trust established to give liquidity to the Chivo System. I say allegedly because, if my memory serves me well, the initial statements pointed in this fashion, but there is no explicit mention to all subsequent purchases. Even so, the Trust likely has some bookkeeping rules to comply with, and standing at a loss of say those mentioned 40M $, even if only on the paper, may trigger some inner problems at some point in time.

El Salvador has bought 2,301 bitcoins in the last few years and if we look at the lowest price they bought around $30k some time ago, then we can say that salvador has now lost about 50% of the assets they own, as an adopting country bitcoin of course there will be fear from their people about the fiscal occurrence of the el salvador economy due to a bad market, I hope if president nayib bukelele can still keep the salvador economy stable under current conditions.

You have no option of using bitcoin directly, you need some software like wallet. Interacting with such software means you need to understand how crypto works (and why Chivo wallet is not as safe as an open source non custodial wallet). It is not directly what bitcoin is. LN is not bitcoin also, it is made to work with bitcoin but not is bitcoin itself. So we can talk about which part of crypto should Salvadorians be educated first (including why other cryptocurrencies are risky to use) but not that there should be no crypto education at all. When I talk about crypto to be taught I mean what is bitcoin, how decentralization works, how to use wallets and how to choose wallets, what are other cryptocurrencies and which are risks of using them (at least not to be cheated with fake bitcoins and bitcoin forks), what is LN and how it works, — it is a bit wider than to learn bitcoin.

As far as I have heard, so far there is no goal to educate Salvadoreans about "crypto" unless it is incidentally to focus on bitcoin, and to imply to stay away from that other shit.  The same would be true in regards to the various other non-governmental forces in El Salvador which would be focusing on bitcoin, lightning network and matters related to those - not shitcoins or "crypto" .. fuck that shit..

Of course, there would be no way to completely escape shitcoins and their desires to figure out ways to attempt to benefit from El Salvador's decision to make bitcoin legal tender.. so I suppose I am not going to disagree that there may well be ongoing needs to make sure that stupid-ass vague framings such as "crypto" does not confuse bitcoin with shitcoins and some of the likely incidental needs to clarify those kinds of points that bitcoin and crypto is not the same thing... so stop trying to suggest that there is some kind of first order need to educate about "crypto" in El Salvador when that is not the case in El Salvador.. at least not any kind of primary focus.

Yes, I understand that it is not a trivial problem to educate a society of an entire state so they can get better understanding of economy and crypto. But to adopt bitcoin we IMO have no other ways as any crypto solutions are still not so easy to use. To get all benefits crypto can give and not to lose crypto user should get enough economic knowledge. It is hard but it is the only way, IMHO.

Most of the time, I do not intend to be mean when I respond to the ideas of others, and sure sometimes some of members will take my comments in a personal way, so there is always some potential that some kind of back and forth exchange of ideas might end up devolving into personal attacks.. It does happen from time to time.. .

As South American, my opinion is that the topic of education is a vicious circle when comes to countries with social problems. Education in general is an important weapon against poverty and manipulation, ignorance itself is something taken advantage of to manipulate the masses, we all know that.

One can call El Salvador a "poor" country and part of this problem is the lack of education and culture there are nations that have such a strong culture about work and education that allows its population to be reborn from the ashes, Japan is a good example.

The vicious circle starts when there is poverty that does not allow to get education and therefore there is a perpetuation of poverty. The president of Salvador (as any good president would) is trying to break this circle by attacking the poverty but he should also attack the ignorance at the same time, if possible, because we would encounter himself swimming against the stream otherwise. The vicious circles are quite hard to break at a personal level, ever harder at a nationwide level.

It is a question of enlightenment: if El Salvador's government wants to have high enough support despite low rates of bitcoin it should educate Salvadorians more and give them enough economical and crypto information. If Salvadorians will understand that it is not a problem that long term investments went down in short prospective they will still support their government despite low rates of bitcoin. If not... well, we all can guess what can be then.

all done with great intention and courage and believe that what is done to bitcoin will always bring good news. even though it is currently in a slump, the past has proven that bitcoin has surprised at high prices. bitcoin will always do this over and over, so no need to worry about this. elsavador has taken the best steps and it is a phenomenal record for a developing country to be willing to adopt bitcoin as a recognized means of payment. it must have been obvious that everything had been thought out carefully about what was to come but bold action was something that was greatly appreciated.

I scratch my head when you question someone if their mind changes if it is a bull or bear market hehe. My argument is similar to yours. El Salvador's bitcoin investment and how it appears to world will be continued to be questioned not only by the critics. It will be questioned by their own people because it is their money that is being used in what might appear for them to be a gamble made by Bukele.

I do say one thing that it is better to have a rough start and gain a good finishing, what will be the cost and price of a success if never been through difficulties, time kike this should be a testing and trial times for El-Savador and Central African Republic to make the good record of history they would live to requone with in the future to come, what will it be said of this two countries if the price of bitcoin breaks the limit of it all time high and mark a nee history, we all want the glory but not one want to experience the story, i believe theirs a great reward for every bravery decision made in life as such in the case of El-Savador and Central African Republic who adopted bitcoin as a legal tender.

But do you really think that the main purpose of taking such a dangerous step using taxpayers' money is for the state to become a storehouse of Bitcoin? This would not have required a law to legalize it on the scale of the daily use of individuals, nor would its adoption be accompanied by that wave of populist propaganda.
The approach with Tesla for electric cars is not appropriate in this example, because the company is solid and strong compared to the case of countries such as El Salvador and other countries in the southern half of the American continent.

It would only be matter of time, what would be said as an unwise decision made by countries that legalize bitcoin as a legal tender would be later changed to a brave decision that later favoured. Bitcoin price decreases and unfavoured period like this present bear market has been in history, not only in 2022 but back then in 2014 and 2018. These should not be a surprise but a possible indication that next long period bull market is coming and should probably be in less than 2 or 3 years from now. It can be far, but the months of bulls that will lead to all-time-high will become tomorrow soon. You are saying the truth, the world has been full of lies since the beginning of human advancement.

Can you see what I quote in bold now when I first brought the topic, you can read it below:


I hope you can get the meaning of that bolded quote, that is just how the world is, there are bitcoin critics and people prefer to take up the unimportant part that is not having significant effect on economy compared to the main ones they should talk about. Bitcoin adoption is not the problem of El Salvador, even El Salvador is not as rich as many other countries when it comes to citizens holding and buying bitcoin. People just failed to understand that countries that do not make bitcoin a legal tender but their citizens buy are also having such effect just like El Salvador, but people are not talking about that but focus on what is not.

There is not dream that reality kill, bitcoin adoption continues as a result of what has happened in the past. I hope you are not the type that will change your mind during bull and again change your mind during bear and change your mind again during bull. Bitcoin is a safe haven but in long term, not short term.

We should also not forget that El Salvador is a poor country, their president bought a risky investment near the all time high and he used taxpayers money to buy this risky investment. What would this make him appear in front of his constituents presently that bitcoin has dumped?

I support the inspiration of uniting South America under bitcoin, however, it appears reality has come again to kill the dream. But what has just occured is they have become bagholders. If someone told you a country and a multibillion electric car company would become bagholders of bitcoin, no one would believe you hehehehe.

For sure they had already studied about the probabilities thats why they are already expecting something like this for the market to be on this condition.Its true that 1 btc is always equal to one and no matter what
happen as long they dont sell everything or anything then its not considered to be losses.It might be on negative or deep reds but its not really into that situation where its totally considered to be one.
They could always opt to hold and wait and even the President might be considering on buying even more with these cheaper price since he do indeed know on how crypto game
works and only to those dumb or lacking some ideas will really be just whining and keeps complaining.