Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 108. (Read 40907 times)

I appreciate the fact that you realize that and take effective measure in yielding to correction which is a display to how keen you are to learning, i realize that many don't act what they say all because they only wanted their voice being heard, there's distinct difference to understand about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, firstly bitcoin is a cryptocurrency but not thesame as other cryptocurrencies which tends to be shitcoins as said by JayJuanGee earlier, we refers other crptos as altcoins.

I would not say that they lag the interest about bitcoin as most of the population needs to understand the basic levels of information about it not going into too details about technical working.They need to open up the LN channel and have customers paying with it but the main problem they face is Volatility factor and we know in recent times the bitcoin has loose significant value and being daily earners they fear this thing :


But if we say about users then there are many using these wallets with bitcoin and Chivo wallet has around 4 million users the approximate of the entire population.The country was facing USD dominance for years and people were not having bank account which made it possible for bitcoin to succeed to some extent there but other issues still prevail there like volatility.

The people are free to use both options like USD and bitcoin payment and Bukele is not forcing anyone for bitcoin adoption and you see the case above clearly states that.But yes it will take more time to clearly evaluate the scenario there and then make any judgements about how well is bitcoin going there maybe after bitcoin bonds are issued for the bitcoin city.

I really take your advice very well. because after I reread the writing that I made a reply to above. It turned out that my writing was ambiguous. seems lacking in clarity.
well I call crypto actually refers to bitcoin. in my second paragraph there I mention bitcoin with the term crypto almost everything. oh shit, I just realized that all this time I was commenting everywhere and got the same error in using the term crypto which should refer to a general thing. I instead apply to special things like crypto. I will slightly edit my reply above in the first paragraph of the beginning and the second paragraph. for the first paragraph at the end, indeed I was there a little deviated from the topic, namely I was talking about the crypto community in general in my country (bitcoin and shitcoin).

after I thought about your suggestion. it is true that the difference between bitcoin and shitcoin must be clarified. so I realized I had to improve how to use the term crypto correctly. because this can make the reader misunderstood.

And I'm not so sure. There is a research that shows that only 12% of airdropped 30 dollars for Chivo installing were kept in Bitcoin. 88% was converted into dollar, over 80% of that amount (71% of all amount) was withdrawn into cash after that. So the average level of enlightenment of Salvadorians is still not so high. There is still much work to do for real adoption of Bitcoin in El Salvador, the government made just several of important steps: first and most important was introduction of Bitcoin into the legislative field of the country as a means of payment. Adoption doesn't has to be mandatory fast, as for me much more important that it would be as safe as possible.

This is a huge step from a small Central American country, and I believe it is merely the beginning for other countries to consider and join the bitcoin revolution. El Salvador's actions could benefit the majority of its citizens in terms of peer-to-peer (P2P), remittance, and cashless payment.

Unless you are some kind of a shitcoiner, or someone who does not understand that bitcoin is different from shitcoins, and also that ambiguous, confusing and likely misleading term "crypto" is also different from bitcoin, I suggest that you figure out a way to lessen your use of the term crypto - especially if you are referring to bitcoin - in this case, El Salvador had specifically passed their bill and implemented their various efforts directly in reference to bitcoin.  They are not embracing various shitcoins or the "crypto" community - even if it is quite likely that various shitcoiner are trying to market their bullshit in various ways in regards to El Salvador...

From my understanding, various shitcoiners have even gone to El Salvador in order to attempt to market their shit on the coattails of bitcoin.

Are you using the term "crypto" when you really mean bitcoin?  Why can't you just use the term "bitcoin"?

I do understand that there will be some times in which the term crypto might be useful, but I find your use of the term to be confusing.. and I am not clear about if you are trying to be confusing or vague or to appear more open minded by using the term "crypto", and you can see that I find it quite irritating when members are using that term without putting it in a proper context and especially if I thought that we may have been talking about bitcoin, and so then I would question are you changing the topic or some other reason to use such a vague term when El Salvador specifically passed a bill about bitcoin, and its implementation has been ongoingly aimed at bitcoin, too. .. at leas so far they seem to have not gotten confused or distracted into shitcoin nonsense.

Even your linked article mostly uses the term bitcoin, yet we know sometimes news/information sources also will use the term crypto in ambiguous and confusing ways - and it seems to me that there continues to be an ongoing need to both critically read (and think about) articles and their use of the terms crypto and bitcoin, and if their information is good.  Sometimes articles will proclaim that people are confused about crypto, and of course, people are confused about crypto and any time that articles (and even other information sources) are not clarifying their terms and interchanging the term bitcoin and crypto, then sometimes they are contributing to the confusion rather than helping to be more clear about their references or even recognizing that confusion comes to the space when there are failures/refusals clarify/distinguish differences between bitcoin and shitcoins (aka crypto).

There is nothing bad about the statistical information, but should not not be related to adoption, but to just what is going on among people and bitcoin in El Salvador. Most of El Salvadorans are not even having bank accounts, bitcoin education is needed. This process of learning bitcoin in the country can not be an abrupt process but rather a gradual process.

Also with how bitcoin is used by citizens of El Salvador, it is just a sign that no one is forcing no one to use bitcoin, it is just an alternative to their fiat but better and increase in value over time unlike fiat. It can even be a means other governments of the world to know that bitcoin can be made a legal tender, most of them are thinking bitcoin may replace their local currencies but what is happening in El Salvador now still showing otherwise, that people will still use fiat.

other than residents who need time to adjust to this bitcoin acceptance. Of course, the government also needs the same thing, namely adjusting everything to the situation and conditions as well as the needs of its citizens. then I agree with you. because of course the government will also conduct a study on it. and a study takes time. Contributions in educating citizens should not only be borne by the government. but the bitcoin community in the country also needs to move in order to support the government that has legalized bitcoin in the country. The bitcoin community must also help in providing education to ordinary citizens. massively and slowly. naturally and pleasantly. reciprocity between the government and its citizens as well as bitcoin activists in the country is very much needed.
I gave an example in my country of crypto activists working together and building a community that bridges society with the government. the name of the community is ICCA (Indonesian Crypto Consumer Association). this community works with the government to protect and educate the public and foster awareness and harmonious relations within it between crypto activists - ordinary people - government.

And education in El Salvador doesn't have to be done only by the government. because cooperation must be carried out with related parties who have the same interest in bitcoin. the bitcoin community outside of el salvador also naturally helps because this is in the interests of the bitcoin community itself. And even this step has been seen in el salvador for example like Paxful. Paxful launched a BTC (La Casa Del Bitcoin) education center to help Salvadorans use the currency better. Sourch .

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_{According to Will Hernandez, director of Latin American growth at Paxful, the company saw a 300% increase in Salvadoran users. "What we are witnessing is a moment of transformation in El Salvador. Peer-to-peer platforms are driving adoption in emerging markets, and as a people-powered platform, we understand that education is critical to the next wave of adoption," he said.}

I don't disagree with anything in your above post, Zlantann, yet I would like to highlight upon this point that you made about various NGOs that are trying to pick up some of the possible slack or shortfalls in the governments ability to do all of the things to educate their population.

We get some claims that the El Salvador government is not doing enough, so others are doing some of the work that the government should be doing - and in some sense, maybe we cannot really know who is going to do the work, and in another sense, we should be able to recognize and appreciate that if a government has created a non-hostile space in regards to some kind of new concept or practice (in this case bitcoin) then incentives have been created for others to come in and fill the space - so in that regard, there are times in which the government may well need not do all the work (and might not be sufficiently competent or even flexible enough to be carry out the various kind so nitty gritty kinds of detailed projects that NGOs are better equipped to carry out). 

From time to time, the government can get involved or even carry out some studies to figure out areas that might be lacking in which either they (the govt) might get involved or to incentivized some private group to come into some area that might still be lacking... whether it is geographical or a certain segment of the population or certain kinds of businesses that might need assistance or at least clarification and access to resources in order learn about ways that they might be able to incorporate bitcoin into their practices.

So I suppose that part of my assertion might be that if we see NGOs coming into the space and even being innovative in their own rights, the overall space that the El Salvador government created through their implementation of the bitcoin as legal tender law and their other pro-bitcoin announcements and demonstrated actions have further allowed NGOs to come into El Salvador and to feel that they are safe to innovate and/or experiment in the ways that they are able to innovate in ways that would not be possible in other jurisdictions who have not been so clearly and overtly bitcoin-friendly.. 

Central American University poll carried out in August 2021 showed that the reason for the objection of Bitcoin's adoption was because of lack of Bitcoin education. The poll indicated that 9 out of 10 people did not have a clear understanding of bitcoin, and as a result of this 8 out of 10 have little or no confidence in its use. The survey also showed that most Salvadorans think  that the main beneficiaries will be the wealthy, foreign investors, the government and business leaders which is a huge misconception. These opposition were just an expression of ignorance. I am sure such protest or opposition might not occur again because many El Salvadorans are now enlightened.  


The government of El Salvador is doing everything to enlighten and educate its populace about Bitcoin. But much credits should be given to some NGOs that have been driving the vision of ensuring that Bitcoin education is accessible to El Salvadoreans Paxful runs an educational and training center in El Salvador to enable free learning opportunities related to BTC. While Qredo is building bitcoin infrastructure in partnership with local banks, international education non-profit MyFirstBitcoin which is taking Bitcoin education to the  grassroots level.  MyFirstBitcoin, IBEX Mercado and Complejo Educativo Ignacio Pacheco Castro are partnering to start El Salvador’s First Bitcoin Diploma program in the public school system. Gradually Bitcoin would be a well understood currency in El Salvador.

I agree with the vast majority of your points Ahli38, except I doubt that it is really accurate to describe various anti-bitcoin reactions in El Salvador as being racist, and it is not always going to be clear regarding the extent to which the opposition is actually against bitcoin in an informed way or they are have other objections to Bukele that they are just expressing through their protests against the bitcoin laws/practices.  Furthermore, we know that sometimes opposition will have coherent and shared objections through the participants, and other times there are a lot of individual objections to aspects of the unknown or perhaps some of them just do not trust Bukele or governmental actions in general.

Regarding how long it might take for some of the Salvadorean people to get used to bitcoin, it surely is going to take time, and there are likely some citizens who are able to pick up the ideas of bitcoin quickly and to put it to use, and others take more time, and I would imagine that there are way more abilities for the citizens to learn when there are various apparatuses in place such as ATMs and surely there are some areas of El Salvador that have larger number of folks who have already been getting used to bitcoin, and other places that are behind in their having bitcoin in their communities.

about the extent to which the government of el salvador in educating its citizens about bitcoin. I think the steps and methods they are taking in order to educate their citizens about bitcoin are very good. However, everything takes time. Like when I was in elementary school, I was taught hard at school about Mathematics, and I hated it because I didn't feel its usefulness. but as time went on, and when i was an adult and learned the importance of new math i accepted and liked it. and that takes time. so do the citizens of el salvador. This is not a question of the lack of good education provided by the El Salvador government but it is a matter of time which will certainly gradually build awareness of the citizens themselves about the importance of digital assets, especially bitcoin in the future.
and if you look back, there is an important point in the country of el salvador that made residents at the beginning of the adoption of bitcoin strongly reject so that racism took to the streets to burn a lot of bitcoin ATMs in the country, precisely in september 2021. The important point is that so far the el country Salvador does not have its own currency and uses the Dollar (currency of another country) as its currency. then there must be a picture if we are observant why such racist things can happen.

apart from these problems, we can see the totality and seriousness of nayip bukele towards the adoption of bitcoin. as we know in 2021, it turns out that the country of el salvador became the country with the largest or most bitcoin ATMs at that time and probably still is today. This shows that education and infrastructure have been maximally carried out by the state of El Salvador. and it was only a matter of time until the residents realized that the steps taken by Nayip bukele were very good. although of course many people are against it. because people are already used to the dollar. so it's normal if it takes a little longer. but I hope bitcoin and dollar can go hand in hand in that country.

And we also see that the steps taken by el salvador also attracted the interest of many countries such as the recent meeting and el salvador as the host in which 44 countries participated, namely 32 central banks and 12 other financial authorities to discuss Bitcoin.


and other good news following El Salvador, namely the Central African Republic has just become the first country on the African continent to legalize bitcoin as a legal currency.

and I think a survey should also continue to be carried out not only by outsiders but also from the el salvador government itself. For the sake of seeing and analyzing and observing the steps that have been taken by the El Salvador government itself. The data is needed to study and determine the next steps that the government of El Salvador should take towards its citizens for the success of bitcoin adoption in the future. And for the progress and development of the country itself .

Indeed Bitcoin will provide an option to the unbanked to escape the many discrimination's and limitation of the banks, the banking system have been full with so many limitations and this can be seen in the kind of services their render to the customers. Who knows what El Salvador long term plans are and to what extent, I will agree with the process the president adopted in actualizing the Bitcoin legal tender status, a lot of people may feel differently and suggest a more holistic approach in the campaign for Bitcoin acceptance within El Salvador but there is no need for that after all Bitcoin was just an option and not the primary currency within the jurisdiction. Attention may now be shifted to the advantages Bitcoin adoption will bring to the unbanked and even those with banks accounts Bitcoin give them option B that sometime give them the liberty over some banking discriminations,

I am a little bit confused by your response Lucius.

Do you really believe that people who are "unbanked" are in that status by choice or by their own lack of ambitions?

Sure, on the margin there might be some folks who are just too lazy or unwilling to set up some kind of a bank account.  On the other hand, I would imagine that there are some systematic structuring matters that contribute towards a decent number of bankers/banks from wanting to provide services to certain "kinds of people," and even if any of us might be in the "acceptable" group for allowing us to have a bank account, there may well be some likely level of services that any of us are not going to qualify, and yeah, sure sometimes the bank/banker will not have any problem putting some of us into some kind of a credit situation in which they know that the odds are quite great that they are going to end up receiving(taking) the collateral that was provided.

I am not even aiming to completely blame banks/bankers for their taking advantage of normies and/or not providing services to such normies, and surely many of us should realize that there continue to exist a lot of perverse incentives within current banking/financial systems that might have had periods of better days and that might even still serve some segments of the population in decently fair and mutually beneficial ways, and so many of us recognize that currently existing banking/financial institutions provide us with a lot of examples and justifications regarding why some more fair forms of money (such as bitcoin) is likely to improve the options, opportunities and access for a lot of people who are currently unable to get access to decently fair banking services.  Sure bitcoin is likely NOT to solve all of the problems, and surely it will not solve a whole hell of a lot of problems over night, but it is likely bringing options, opportunity, access and fairness to money and monetary services to more people around the world the longer that it exists.


Bullshit.**  Why would there be a need to presume that whatever Bukele did is failing or that the benefits in the im plementation of somethin gis not worse than the costs if he had not aimed to implement it right away?  We do not know that.

** I am attacking the way that you expressed your idea, not you Marvell1.

Monday morning quarterbacking comes off as so easy.. He should have done x, y, z.  right.   

The point is that he acted on a timeline that he and his legislature (even if you consider the legislation branch to be a puppet) considered to be a reasonable/prudent timeline based on the information that they then had at their disposal.


Why don't you go down to El Salvador and volunteer to be one of the advisors on the bitcoin education committee, and that way you will be able to improve such committee and such lacking of sufficient and adequate actions that you seem to be presuming to currently exist within: 1) what they had already done, 2) what they are currently doing or 3) what needs to be done in respects to edumacating the Salvadorean population.

By the way, you might consider that I am being too harsh (meanie) to you, yet I wonder whether you might be able to recognize/appreciate a certain amount of value/education that exists in a learn as you go kind of approach - especially something so new and potentially controversial like bitcoin?

Accordingly, might you not consider that there is a bit of "know-it-all" contradictions when spewing seemingly bullshit/contradictory talking points  proclaiming both that El Salvador had: 1) implemented the BTC law too quickly and 2) there is a need to educate the population prior to implementing the law... blah blah blah. 

Do you really believe that much if any progress towards educating the population is going to come prior to implementation?  Seems to me that there would have been considerable likelihood for a bunch of seeming belly rubbing introspection if there had been a campaign to educate the population about bitcoin if it were done prior to implementation of anything... Regarding this last point, I am not suggesting that there is ONLY one way to do something, but instead that there are likely going to be trade-offs no matter what, and in that respect, there seems to be some value in granting deferences to the governmental decisional choices of Bukele and crew rather than spouting out some seemingly mostly superficial Monday-morning quarterbacking about how things would have been better if blah blah bah... especially when there is not really an objectively "better way to do it," but there is a way that they chose to do it based on information that they then had at their disposal.

Nayib bukele may have been in a bit of a hurry to adopt bitcoin in their country, forgetting that the local people's knowledge about bitcoin was too inadequate. Currently, bitcoin is experiencing a bearish phase besides focusing on holding more bitcoins and their bitcoin bond issue plans...I hope he also has a plan to spread knowledge of bitcoin to citizens of El Salvador, only when people truly understand bitcoin and accept it with passion, El salvador quickly achieve the dazzling success they desire.

70% of people in El Salvador were unbanked just 1 or 2 years ago, so if they couldn’t handle a simple bank account (or they just don’t care), should we have expected them to understand what Bitcoin is in less than 1 year? The success of Bitcoin is measured here in a completely wrong way...

Isn't it a bit too early to make a survey that will truly reflect the experience of El Salvadorians with Bitcoin adoption, left for me this period should be focused on building the interest of the citizens as regards Bitcoin adoption, the major problem I have seen with the El Salvador Bitcoin adoption is lack of adequate awareness in the general public and this makes it look as if the president is forcing a strange currency on the citizens but with good orientation the level of El Salvadorans interest and knowledge will increase. Quite a large number of the population have little interest in Bitcoin simply because they lack the basic knowledge of the concept.

Just a minor note on a question regarding bitcoin that I’ve seen recently echoed on the media. The question is part of a broader survey carried out by the Instituto Universitario de Opinión Pública (ludop) de la Universidad Centroamericana (UCA). The scope of the survey is to query on different aspects of Salvadorian’s perception of the third year of Bukele at the front of the country, being a single question (out of 164) explicitly concerning bitcoin:
 
Almost a year ago, the parliamentary deputies passed the Bitcoin Law. How has your family economy benefited from this law? : a lot, somewhat, not much or nothing .

Assesment	Perecentage
A lot	6,1%
Somewhat	8,9%
Not much	12,8%
Nothing	71,1%
DK/DA	1%

A single question does nor really reflect the underlying details, but it may show the current sentiment and balance, certainly influenced by the price decrease of BTC over the last few months.
 
The survey was conducted very recently through personal interviews on 1.272 local residents, chosing the people randomly, whilst attending to keep a balanced representation for both rural and urban areas, geographical zones, sex and age (which seem correct to me) – see pages 1, 45 and 46.

See (in Spanish): https://uca.edu.sv/iudop/wp-content/uploads/Bol-Eva-Gob-3er-anio-1.pdf

We are all well aware of the fact that El Salvador has not sold any amount from the Bitcoin holding and the President is well aware of the volatility of Bitcoin before even approving its purchase, so you cant associate the country's economic problems to Bitcoin as there has always been an economic crisis in El Salvador long before the president announced the Bitcoin legal tender law. On one of those occasions of El Salvador Bitcoin buying a few hours after the purchase, there was a sharp market increase but the president never thought of taking profits and that is because of the long term time frame set for their holdings, and one only lose when you sell at a lower price so at this point El Salvador Bitcoin holding is intact.

Countries that have stable fiat fear bitcoin so that it won't affect their fiat. A country like El Salvador has no financial stability and may not be able to say what they suffer in the hands of America and International Monetary Fund (IMF). The move made by El Salvador was to make bitcoin it's refuge and I know bitcoin will not disappoint them. Government is a continuous process, my prayer is that his successor should continue to toe the lane of bitcoin.

Again, another lesson to other countries is to try the adoption method in phases while sensitising the people and try to sell the idea of bitcoin to the people gradually. It shouldn't be done in a haste so that the people wouldn't misconstrue the nice gesture.