Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 109. (Read 43222 times)

Tell me a time when it wasn’t like this?

The only person looking stupid here is you. Will you tell a poor person to fix their finances by just not spending money and doing nothing? This won’t work when there’s not enough money coming in, in the first place.

It takes work and investments to better things, especially if this country lacks in all areas. If they’re getting hate from people like you, means they’re probably doing things right.

He didn’t even take any risks, for the 1000th time, the Bitcoin El Salvador is holding are not at risk and serve a purpose, because they need to convert between different currencies, that’s why they’re using a trust fund.

Fix what? Do you see anything about fixing El Salvadors finances in the specifications of Bitcoin? Before you open your mouth, think of solutions, your crying wont advance anyone and we both know that you’re not interested in El Salvadors well-being, but spreading fud about Bitcoin adoption.

How much money was used and for which purpose?

How would relying only on the dollar would have bettered the situation for El Salvador in a recession?


Sure, this must be the real reason why they’re suggesting this and creating a stable financial system must be an easy task in a poor country that is plagued by corruption.

So why does it work?

It won’t be volatile forever, but this problem is fixed now by accounting in usd and just converting right away in daily commerce, that’s why they put up a trust fund to do exactly this. Volatility will also work in your favour when you’re holding long term, there’s no advantage into saving into currency that is set in falling in value. People should understand money first when they talk about these things, Bitcoin isn’t used as a unit of account yet and that’s fine, the volatility problem doesn’t matter when you don’t account in Bitcoin and convert right away. Bitcoin will be way more stable in the future when the market cap matures, and then it can be used as a unit of account easily too.

Also as long as the dollar circulates it will probably be used for daily commerce, as this is what greshams law suggest. When we come to the point where the bad money(dollar) will have lost too much value, then Bitcoin will take over in daily circulation, this is what thiers law suggest. Everything we’re seeing so far is completely expected and in accordance with economics.

Fail, how? It won’t.

Cringe. You’re the person here who doesn’t grasp basic concepts and can’t think further than 5 minutes.

They’re not using the main chain. You can use any lightning wallet and their state wallet uses lightning too, to my knowledge.

You have the wrong idea about how bitcoin is being used there. They are still using USD as the base currency.
This is why IMF suggested El salvador to not use bitcoin but instead work on creating a stable financial system.

Bitcoin's role isn't to work as a currency for a nation. It will fail due to its volatile nature.
It could never work, even if everyone(somehow magically) started transacting with bitcoin then the network will simple fail.

Bitcoin wasn't made for this. Maybe lightning network or a new L2 solution similar to LN. But it still won't solve the problem of volatility.

Imagine a leader of a sovereign country failing to grasp such basic concepts.

If he had used BTC LN instead, then it could have been a different story. I wouldn't be pissed either because that would be the correct adoption.

Whatever your view may be on the Bitcoin adoption by El Salvador president the fact remains that El Salvador citizens now have a legal decentralized digital currency, that is serving as an alternative to the United States dollars. This to me means that the president is smart enough to take the financial power off the string of our dollars and peg it on a decentralized currency like Bitcoin, and if you look closely the president's decision to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender is the best financial diversification and over-concentration of the country economy on the United States dollars since El Salvador does not have it own traditional currency.

This is what happens when a country gets a daft leader with no understanding of the ground reality.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/11/el-salvador-forced-citizens-use-bitcoin-what-happened/
Without paywall https://archive.ph/e4587


I don't know why the bitcoin community continues to support this idiot, you guys are playing into his hands.

And I have been saying this for a long time now

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5404746
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60547517
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60502685
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60488527

Since none of us know the future in advance, the mere fact that an investment goes down rather than up does not mean it was a bad investment at the time that it was made or that there should be any meaningful change in the practice down the road.. including potentially keeping on dollar cost averaging, buying on dips and lump sum investing over many years and even across administrations. 

Of course, with politics there frequently are goals to get friendly administrations elected in subsequent terms in order that previous investments/policies can continue to be followed, so of course, there are no guarantees that future administrations will be bitcoin friendly in their policies, practices and investments.

The idea of hedging is like an insurance for a variety of possibilities, so something that serves as a hedge (such as bitcoin) might not have gone up but it still served as an insurance.  There are theories that seem to have a decent amount of factual support in which bitcoin is amongst the best of hedge investments because it seems to be a non-correlated asset... Sure folks make claims that bitcoin is correlated to various macro assets, but in the longer term that does not seem to be the case.

Depending how bitcoin price going on for several years later? will be as gambling what did by president Bukele because he don't give positive impact with investing on bitcoin and price keep going down at the future, just speculation if bitcoin price at the future keep on the lower price than with first time price invested by El Savador president. I think become weakness because how much fund invested in bitcoin could use for other needed and become as capital for El Savador how to give their country with productive economic. All contrast side with Bukele will made it as black campaign on the next presidential election because he was failed give profit with how much money waste by investing in bitcoin.

FTFY.. your last sentence... at least provided another interpretation.. your sentence was not bad.. just want another angle to the sentence.

Governments do not have an obligation to get everything perfect so long as they are making reasonable efforts to represent the interests of the people.. and surely some governments do better than others and some do not even seem to try to represent the interests of the people beyond mere lip service.

Investment is about profit and loss but it is far from gambling. A new research by JP Morgan Chase & Co. stated that U.S. wealth has plunged by $5 trillion in 2022, down from $13 trillion to $8 trillion; mostly from a sour stock market, that’s the risk of investing. The government of my state used tax payer’s money and invested over 100 million Dollars on a monorail project and the investment partners withdrew from the projects and it became a wasted fund. That project when completed would have increase the internal generated revenue of the state. We know government is accountable to the people; hence they must use the state resources prudently. But if government must invest, they must also bear the risk. El Salvador government has chosen to invest in Bitcoin, haters should give them time to prove that it is not a bad decision. Bitcoin might not be the best investment, but is one of the best options.

Governments are encharged to use tax payer money; that's what governments do.  Surely, there are going to be differences of opinion regarding the extent to which any government is spending government resources in the interest of the people and if they are taking reasonable actions with money and resources.


Your mere characterization as bitcoin as a gamble rather than an investment does not make it so merely because you allege such, and does not even seem to be a logical conclusion based on current facts on the ground including that Bukele has been proclaiming that foreign investments into El Salvador and even tourism in El Salvador is way up since the announcement of the intention to pass  the Bitcoin tender law last June 2021, and even up higher than the amount of bitcoin that has been bought and invested into the government treasuries.  

Sure we have a work-in-progress and even some needs to verify whether claims are true, but I would think that Bukele is in a way better position to assess various financial matters in the country than you, even though I have no problem if you are attempting to use actual relevant and material facts to make your claims rather than what seems to be your ongoing negative nancy claims that seem to be largely removed from reality and skewed by your own seeming inabilities to appreciate bitcoin as an investment rather than a gamble.

Furthermore, there are many of us in the bitcoin space who have been hearing largely bullshit proclamations about bitcoin as a gambling technique rather than an investment, and many times the differences between investing and gambling has to do with details in the approach and or the apportionment of position size rather than the mere fact that bitcoin happens to be included in an investment portfolio... so in that regard, your mere assertion of bitcoin as a gamble seems far removed from the factual historical performance of bitcoin - especially over the longer term and especially if investors had been mostly accumulating bitcoin over the years within reasonable means (rather than over investing), and there is no evidence that El Salvador has been overinvesting into bitcoin.. rather than being reasonably assertive and directional.


For sure, there seems to be quite a bit of doom and gloom exaggeration regarding what El Salvador did in terms of just adding bitcoin as another option (besides keeping the dollar as an ongoing legitimate way to transact in the country), so for sure Bitcoin did not become exclusive or even pushed in any kind of meaningful/substantial way onto the people.. even though some of the law required larger companies (capable of internet services) to provide bitcoin transactions as an option... which seems to be more than a reasonable trade off, at least so far.. and yet we are still less than 1 year into the legal tender law going into effect (going live).

Ongoing claims of doom and gloom  do continue to come off as exaggerated rather than really having facts on the ground to back them up in any kind of meaningful/substantive ways.


You are probably correct that El Salvador is merely exercising prudent aggressiveness in terms of continuing to buy BTC on an ongoing basis, even while BTC prices are lower than their earlier purchases rather than gambling as what many of the bitcoin naysayers and El Salvador bashers (haters) seem to want to conclude without any real and materially meaningful evidence to support their claims about El Salvador's supposed gambling posture in relationship to bitcoin.

I don't understand the thinking of people who continue to associate bitcoin with a country's economic downturn. whereas if the country has an economic upturn then bitcoin is forgotten and not linked. oh really annoying.
like el salvador who also continues to be criticized by these strange people when the economy is in decline. as if the economic downturn was caused entirely by bitcoin.

I think you anti bitcoins should start opening your eyes and minds. that the current decline in the level of the economy is evenly distributed in almost all countries, even Britain and America, cannot be missed because they are also affected by the current economic downturn. i instead see el salvador having some improvement in its economy. such as in the tourism sector and others also increased rapidly there after the adoption of bitcoin. so that the income of the country's special income also increases. those who always attack el salvador seem to see that el salvador has replaced all the money there with bitcoin. even though el salvador only adopted bitcoin as a legal tender without replacing the dollar currency there.
and keep this in mind, regarding el salvador who keeps buying bitcoins like the latest 80 bitcoins at 19k price. logically why is el salvador still able and taking the time to buy bitcoin when other countries are in economic crisis. isn't that a good sign that el salvador has a booming economy so it's still able to buy bitcoins.

@Doan9269. I shake my head that you are trying to make it appear that the future of El Salvador's economy would depend on the price of bitcoin. Does that imply that president Bukele is gambling? Also, the mock is not about the bitcoin investment. The mock is he is using taxpayer's money to gamble on bitcoin while a worldwide economic recession is going to occur. Should we continue cheering for him if there began a social unrest calling for Bukele to step down? Will bitcoin fix this?

let's forget about what Peter Schiff said or not and that aside, let's now talk about reality, whose country's economy as at present is smoothly running well? just give a tour round the world and come with your conclusion on hoe you derive the outcome of a country that has not adopted bitcoin and still running a good economy today, everyone is sunk already into the pool of inflation all over, what makes them now have more survival opportunity than El-Savador which adopted Bitcoin? obviously nothing,


bitcoin will continue to repeat history while things are likely possible to change in El-Savador for good with time and others mocking will get to remain on a same spot and nothing changed for them later in the future.


Russia's case is exceptional here, there's justification to its present predicament


thank God the result is not concluded yet, some cases are worse than theirs.

Why you talking about the "crypto space" coinsrider?  El Salvador passed a bitcoin legal tender law.. are you talking about bitcoin, or some other topic?

Yes it is possible that what they are doing, a good economist, experts and believers and developer's in crypto space for the coming future.

Huh?  I did not realize that El Salvador was at the top of the list in terms of the various terms listed on that chart including % of debt as compared to GDP.. There are 5 countries with higher debt as compared with GDP.. but the other numbers on that chart supposedly count for something too in terms of how they rated El Salvador as the highest likelihood to default. 

Bloomberg.. I am sure that they are trustworthy and not really biased in any kind of way, right?

By the way, bbc.reporter.. Bitcoin is not El Salvador and El Salvador is not bitcoin.. furthermore El Salvador ONLY adopted bitcoin as legal tender, so I don't understand what the fuck relevancy "the cryptospace" supposedly going to look stupid.. hardly makes any sense to me, but hey maybe I am not accounting for all of the facts like you seem to be doing.. Bloomberg and all.. connections.. .. I am not opposed to attempting to figure out if there are some relevant facts that need to be considered, and you seem to believe your linked chart provides some relevant and meaningful data that needs to be considered in order to figure out if the bitcoin legal tender law was a good thing or not.

For some strange reason I thought that there were other relevant and meaningful facts, and in that regard, I was of the impression that El Salvador was increasing some of its income and GDP in recent times, and some of that supposed increases of income and GDP has been credited to their having had passed the Bitcoin legal tender law..

So if bitcoin as legal tender is helping El Salvador more than it is hurting it, then I am not sure about your point.. except that you just want to be a debbie downer and give undue weight to some facts that you believe are more relevant than El Salvador's having had increased some of their income and GDP in recent times, no?..

Everyone should stop giving much attention to Peter Schiff and pay more attention to the reality that El Salvador is not in a very good economic condition. It would certainly make everyone in the cryptospace look stupid if the government of El Salvador goes bankrupt while their president irresponsibly continues to take risks with taxpayer's money. Will bitcoin fix this?



Emerging markets are facing rising debt, slowing growth & soaring yields

Russia & Sri Lanka both defaulted -- for different reasons -- who's next?

We rank 50 countries to find El Salvador, Ghana, Egypt, Tunisia & Pakistan to be the most vulnerable

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/ziadmdaoud/status/1545316002317082624

I like the contest used by you saying " all that El-Savador is doing is about the future economy" should we assume that people now lack the ability to secure the future or were been afraid on weather the risk in doing so isn't worth the benefits to gain at the end, bit at least i believe in starting from somewhere first, one cannot sit with the fold of hands expecting change to come overnight, all hands mist be on desk, El-Savador might be passing through alot now probably but the set target which is the future goal will not make them stop or look back because better is the end of a thing than the beginning.


Which is a proof that he knows what he's doing, a good economist will understand better that El-Savador's president is confidently securing the future for the interest of the people, buying more the dip, this is indeed an investment on itself, when the price begin to go bullish then comes a smile on their faces.


The worst that could comes out from them is not to lend out money to them again but they can't decide for them what to do.

I admire and love that country very much, El Salvador and its president are worthy representatives of the truth, of technology, of everything that has to do with the economy of the future, the president of El Salvador does not care if the price goes down, if low he buys more, the war is being mounted from some parts of his people to the world bank, but this president does have his balls on the right track, because he firmly believes in what he thinks and knows that the potential is there, I would like to see the face of the Salvadorans when the Bitcoin begins to rise and reach 100,000 dollars and possibly more.

yes for sure, am also much concerned about that one thing that always and easily get people interested about shitcoins, yet some know the risk behind it but still prefers that same crooked way, El-Savador made the best decision on bitcoin and maintain it stance, keep buying even when it's dip, all i could come out with about altcurrencies is that they only have the potentials to make a void noise around seeking traffic.


if you are to introduce bitcoin to someone aren't you expected to explain in detail that aside the good side bitcoin also has it bad side which could lead to loosing the financial asset because of the volatility, before El-Savador could have adopted bitcoin as a legal tender, they understand the pros and cons therein, so this is not suppose to be a challenge whereas bitcoin isn't the only major financial source to El-Savador.

Also we should be a little realisitic when judging from the outside, imagine trying the task to fix el salvador.

• You need to convince the actual people in the country to vote for you and become a president
• This country probably had problems in every area with only limited resources to fix them.
• There is no comfortable infrastructure already in place.
• It takes actual ground work to fight poverty, violence, gangs and corruption.
• Not even having had a own currency and limited say in international politics, they were completely irrelevant to outsiders.
• Having like 5 years to make fundamental changes, to problems that existed since much longer, and then trying to get elected again.

Theyre a country with problems that far outreach Bitcoin, profits or some debt. Fixing this is in reality, is not an easy task, theres only so much you can/ are allowed to do. Our soft ass western politicians would fail hard for sure.

Also lets not act like El Salvador is not a sorveign country that needs our permissions to handle changes, i dont hear anyone complaining about the us or other countries when theyre actually wasting money for the biggest bs, and objectively speaking, what did El Salvador do terribly wrong in the situation theyre in? They introduced 1 legal tender law and all of a sudden everyone cares, because its Bitcoin. If they made worse choices no one would care, because no one was actually interested if theyre doing well in the first place.

The sad thing is that apparently Peter Schiff did nothing wrong, and his bank still got shut down, but that is exactly what we were talking about for so long. And yet these people think Bitcoin is just some toy with no real use cases, ignorance costs money and lifetime as were seeing.