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Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 113. (Read 43209 times)

rby
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Wherever the wealth of man is, there his life is. No matter how you will try to paint it, anyone that bought bitcoin at $69,000 will never be at ease at this time. In as much as we are aware that bitcoin will rebounce and still beat the ATH of $69k, it doesn't necessarily mean that we should enjoy our lives during adversity. No one knows if bitcoin will get to $2k dollars and no one knows how long it will take to appreciate again, that is why the rule to invest what you are able to lose still applies to bitcoin.

Anyone that has enough to take care of himself and his family should not be bothered much bitcoin bitcoin is compulsorily entering bull. But for those who came to multiply in order to have what to sustain the family with, my prayer goes to you all. You can bear the hard time now, but joy cometh in the morning.
legendary
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Of course, current spot price and ongoing dynamics related to BTC spot price is not comfortable for everyone, but I doubt that there is any need to just shut it off, wind it down or whatever other depression-based approach you are suggesting to be the better way forward.
Just like you meant, El Salvador is not going to do that. Thanks to their leader like their president, Nayib Bukele, minister of finance, Alejandro Zelaya and others that have learnt bitcoin price history and how bitcoin invest should be after losses (although no losses until they sell). They are there to help Salvadorans to know the true value of bitcoin and yet fiat remain accepted and working just like other countries that are bitcoin friendly, what people do not want to understand.

I did not want to cite your whole post merely to save some space, even though I am responding to some overall themes that seem to run through your overall in your post, and I don't really disagree with any of the points that you are making except that I believe that it likely bares repeating that the vast majority of us seem to understand that there are no guarantees that the BTC price will ever go up ever again or to repeatedly experience new all time highs, but frequently we use language to suggest that there is a kind of guarantee or something close to a guarantee that the BTC price is going to go up... Even that segment that you cited from Bukele has a kind of implicit assertion that "for sure" or "immediately" the BTC price is going to go up in the future.

Perhaps humans just have tendencies to talk in variations of absolutes, and I do not really have any problem with that because we should be able to still understand some of the sentiments of nuance even when people around us are using absolute language to describe events in the future .. so maybe I am just quibbling, even though I see that so many times many of us choose language that kind of suggests that there are guarantees that the BTC price is going to continue to go up or reach all time highs and various inevitability UPpity scenarios like that... and don't get me wrong.. I am guilty of some of the same, too.. even though I try to be careful to make sure that I am not overly selling it and that my audience still understands that there are no guarantees and maybe that is why from time to time we need to repeat that there are no guarantees, even when we are using bullish language to talk about bitcoin and its ongoingly very strong investment thesis.

Don't get me wrong.  Bitcoin continues to serve as one of the strongest asset classes that the world has ever seen that is available on a kind of "anyone can invest" world-wide basis, which is likely contributing to its also serving as a kind of revolutionary vehicle that does not have to have violence contained within in order to facilitate the greatest wealth transfer that the world has ever seen for those who invest versus for those who lag in their investment or naysay in their investing into bitcoin.

So sure, there is a decent amount of value that price shows in terms of showing us how the battle is going .. the ups and the downs and the likely ongoing outrageous volatility that goes way beyond expectations in one direction and perhaps another.  One of the most likely things in bitcoin remains its ongoing short term volatility because wealth does not get transferred without some violent actions.. even if we are merely referring to various informational and financial manipulation tools that are employed along the way.

So in that regard there is a lot of utility in bitcoin no matter what the price, and surely some of the extreme downward pressures that we see in recent times is likely related to how extensively there has been various risky bets that have been taken on bitcoin think terms of relying upon its price continuing to go up or failing to go down below certain price points in the short term, and to some extent if the market actors (bear whales or whoever) can understand that those kinds of risky bets have been made, then they can achieve a lot of advantages to pushing the btc spot price down to those various breaking points and then to cause those risky betters to totally lose or get recked (in bitcoin parlance) because those actors (whether individuals, exchanges, interest-bearing product providers, miners, shitcoiners, etc) were presuming that UPpity (or at least specific bottom foundational locations - such as the 200-week moving average) was inevitable in bitcoin's short term.

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bringing us back to the question about why use the word "crypto" when trying to describe what is happening in El Salvador related to bitcoin.. back to you jokers10?
...

I'm not going to answer each part of question as I guess I've got what you mean. First: I don't promote any other cryptocurrencies to become adopted in El Salvador. Next, what is Bitcoin: it is a specific cryptocurrency with specific functions and background. What is crypto in general, as idea: it is a class of such cryptocurrencies, of how do they work, of how to use them, of which risks are there.

Fair enough.

It still remains a quite ambiguous practice to use the term crypto so frequently that you had done in your earlier posts without specifying the relationship to bitcoin, and we have a lot of fucktwats out there who are spreading misinformation through some of their failing and refusing to use the term bitcoin in their various discussions and also implying that there is some kind of equally other coins and blah blah blah referring to ethereums crap and some of the scamcoins and smoke and mirror projects to imply that they are somehow similar or equivalent to bitcoin.  Lots of those folks are making bank on such misrepresentations or failure/refusal to be more clear in their language.. so we get all kinds of folks, including long term members in this forum parroting such vague language in their ways of talking about subject matters, even when we specifically seem to be talking about bitcoin (in a bitcoin-related thread).

I am not even opposed to talking about shitcoins or crypto or whatever as long as we can be somewhat clear about the terms and how it might be related to bitcoin if we happen to be in a bitcoin focused thread (like this one), and sure outside of this thread, if you are talking about shitcoins, then sure throw around vague-ass terms like crypto all that you want.. I don't tend to read a vast majority of that crap because I tend to NOT really understand what they are talking about half the time... unless they have some clarity in their discussion points.

So no, when I'm talking about what is happening with bitcoin in El Salvador I'm talking about bitcoin and I know that. But when I'm talking about education I'm talking about basic crypto knowledge and basic economy as I think that it is not enough to know just about bitcoin to use it wisely. It is not about learning about other cryptocurrencies, it is about learning basic ideas of the system, of idea, for which bitcoin is just a part, even if it is a main part.

Sure there are all kinds of ways that people are deficient in knowledge, and sometimes there could be some benefits to go into other areas, as you suggest, but sometimes that kind of higher level learning is not needed, so it will depend on context..

Let's say for example, there might be some governmental campaign efforts, that are aimed to teach people about how to use the Chivo wallet.  They have 1-2 people at 20 locations around the country for 8 hours a day.. Monday through Friday.. something like that for four weeks, and then they reassess after 4 weeks.  So, the workers might have a mandate to ONLY teach about Chivo wallet and nothing else, and maybe after 1 or 2 weeks into the campaign they learn that people are asking about some other related topics that are not in their mandate, they can choose whether to teach other additional topics or even choose new topics along the way.. change the number of locations or the number of teachers at each location.  

I don't see anything wrong with focused educational efforts that do not necessarily need to teach people all the ways that they do not know enough about the world and personal finances. it may or many not be in the government's interest to take on those kinds of extra projects.. Let's say after having 3 months of on-the-street educational campaigns, the government decides that 1-2 weeks needs to be added for all 16-year old high school students to learn about the Chivo wallet and some other bitcoin and other crypto concepts, or that six public colleges should add a course that involves teaching about bitcoin-related matters, and the courses will be funded by the government so long as they include x, y z and a, b and c topics and meet certain curriculum criteria that may or may not be flexible  depending on how the govt chooses to set up such guidance and/or whether to get involved in details or not.

There is no need to get all excited that everything needs to be taught to all people merely because a lot of normie plebs do not know, especially if the country (El Salvador) has a bitcoin focus, and they likely feel that they need to have some focus in terms of various aspects of their involvement including that they are leaving some educations efforts to private NGOs.. but at the same time, the government could still request data from NGOs or even create its own complementary or even competing services depending on how they measure the data on the ground and how it evolves over certain period s of time , whether over 3-6 months or even longer periods of time of measuring various aspects of data including but not limited to whether normie plebs know the difference between bitcoin and various broader financial matters and/or  the "dangers" of shitcoins or even if there is going to be any need for the government to get into those kinds of potential ly confusing topics or do they need to save normie plebs from shitcoins or not.. there can be some hands off in terms of shitcoins in terms of not really stopping normie plebs from getting involved in those various other projects, but sometimes governments might see an interest in whether their citizens are being scammed or mislead or even if governmental efforts in respect to bitcoin are being undermined by some of the shitcoin projects that might come into such a bitcoin-friendly space that has been provided/facilitated by the govt.  


I understand your point that you are worried about possible mess if some other cryptocurrencies would be promoted masquerading as education of crypto but teaching basics of crypto as an idea you'll IMO get the salvation of this problem. And hiding knowledge you'll get a mistrust.

I am not suggesting that there is any need to hide information.,, Focusing on bitcoin and proclaiming that shitcoins are mostly scams is not hiding information.. merely because you might have a different opinion about being more open to shitcoins.. I started out my responsive comments you to by asking what the fuck you are talking about in terms of the vague references to bitcoin and not using the word bitcoin in your description of what El Salvador is doing or what they should  do.. so I was not so much not that concerned if you might want to promote shitcoins in one way or another, but instead I wanted to get clarification about what you meant in the ways that you chose to frame the matters.

Let's say for example, the El Salvador government decides to conduct some public meetings in 10 cities/towns around the country, and the purpose of such public meetings is to talk about the Chivo wallet and some basics about bitcoin, and when they get to the meeting, there are some groups that want to ask questions about shitcoins, and the government reps can say shut the fuck up about shitcoins and those various off-topic matters, we are conducting these meetings with public resources with various specific purposes to talk about x, y and z related to the Chivo wallet, bitcoin basics and some other purposes.  Of course, they can be diplomatic in the way they might allow the raising of topics, but they also could choose to NOT open the topic beyond the ones that they choose at that particular time to promote.  

Of course, the government can choose various ways to design their public meetings including whether they are open to various topics or not or they can also just say that if those shitcoiners want to promote their shitcoins and the various shitcoin talking points, then they can carry out those kinds of activities in private ways..The government does not have to be open to all topics, but it does not mean that they are hiding anything by focusing on bitcoin.  You should well know that there is a difference between promoting something and being closed off to information.. or hiding information

You seem to have some difficulties if you believe that information is being hidden merely because it is not being promoted or even being an open talking point, which seems to be a misleading spin in which you are failing and refusing to appreciate the value of attempting to focus on bitcoin and  even to likely exclude som e of the nonsense about shitcoins or even to frame the shitcoins as nonsense while potentially even allowing those kinds of shitcoin projects to still take place (in other venues).. since they might not be illegal, yet... and yeah some of the shitcoin and bitcoin adjacent (that are not bitcoin) projects may well have some value and benefits, perhaps?  but that still does not mean that that such bitcoin adjacent ideas need to be open to discussion since they seem to be off-topic or irrelevant matters when there is a focus on bitcoin... which is not even close to the same as "being hidden."
legendary
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bringing us back to the question about why use the word "crypto" when trying to describe what is happening in El Salvador related to bitcoin.. back to you jokers10?
...

I'm not going to answer each part of question as I guess I've got what you mean. First: I don't promote any other cryptocurrencies to become adopted in El Salvador. Next, what is Bitcoin: it is a specific cryptocurrency with specific functions and background. What is crypto in general, as idea: it is a class of such cryptocurrencies, of how do they work, of how to use them, of which risks are there.

So no, when I'm talking about what is happening with bitcoin in El Salvador I'm talking about bitcoin and I know that. But when I'm talking about education I'm talking about basic crypto knowledge and basic economy as I think that it is not enough to know just about bitcoin to use it wisely. It is not about learning about other cryptocurrencies, it is about learning basic ideas of the system, of idea, for which bitcoin is just a part, even if it is a main part.

I understand your point that you are worried about possible mess if some other cryptocurrencies would be promoted masquerading as education of crypto but teaching basics of crypto as an idea you'll IMO get the salvation of this problem. And hiding knowledge you'll get a mistrust.
legendary
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I think Nayib Bukele is right about this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1538356901297143809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw



It is a good advice, also a time for people that can hold for long like 2 or 3 years to buy bitcoin. I understand that price downturn can result to panic and uncertainty for new people but who buy at risky time like this when bitcoin has significantly decrease will not lose in long term.
His tweet represent what the people need to do at the bear market. We don't know how long it takes, it can happen within 2 years or above 3 years. The market can change any time. As per my understanding about the market there is chance of large scale bounce within two years time, because the halving falls in that time period. We can expect something good during those days prior/after halving.
legendary
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This is not the best time for Bitcoin advocacy in and around El Salvador, as the Bitcoin adoption has been viewed as a bad idea by some segments of El Salvadorans because of its volatile nature, and seeing the present Bitcoin price conditions make it hard to b advocate for Bitcoin retail adoption.
That is what some people always fail to understand, the best time to buy or advocate for bitcoin is time like this when people are afraid to buy and wait for the next all-time-high. Salvadorans needs to know all these, you can check my later post about this. Some people will fail to buy and wait for like 2 years or 3 year and later after all-time-high, they will say the should have bought bitcoin at certain low price in the past.

Of course, current spot price and ongoing dynamics related to BTC spot price is not comfortable for everyone, but I doubt that there is any need to just shut it off, wind it down or whatever other depression-based approach you are suggesting to be the better way forward.
Just like you meant, El Salvador is not going to do that. Thanks to their leader like their president, Nayib Bukele, minister of finance, Alejandro Zelaya and others that have learnt bitcoin price history and how bitcoin invest should be after losses (although no losses until they sell). They are there to help Salvadorans to know the true value of bitcoin and yet fiat remain accepted and working just like other countries that are bitcoin friendly, what people do not want to understand.

I wonder how the price crash affects El Salvador, other than losing a lot of the fiat money that was invested into Bitcoin.
Your account was just created some days ago, probably you also start to know about bitcoin some days or weeks ago, you have a lot to learn before making conclusion.





I think Nayib Bukele is right about this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1538356901297143809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw



It is a good advice, also a time for people that can hold for long like 2 or 3 years to buy bitcoin. I understand that price downturn can result to panic and uncertainty for new people but who buy at risky time like this when bitcoin has significantly decrease will not lose in long term.
newbie
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I wonder how the price crash affects El Salvador, other than losing a lot of the fiat money that was invested into Bitcoin.
legendary
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As far as I have heard, so far there is no goal to educate Salvadoreans about "crypto" unless it is incidentally to focus on bitcoin, and to imply to stay away from that other shit.  The same would be true in regards to the various other non-governmental forces in El Salvador which would be focusing on bitcoin, lightning network and matters related to those - not shitcoins or "crypto" .. fuck that shit..

Of course, there would be no way to completely escape shitcoins and their desires to figure out ways to attempt to benefit from El Salvador's decision to make bitcoin legal tender.. so I suppose I am not going to disagree that there may well be ongoing needs to make sure that stupid-ass vague framings such as "crypto" does not confuse bitcoin with shitcoins and some of the likely incidental needs to clarify those kinds of points that bitcoin and crypto is not the same thing... so stop trying to suggest that there is some kind of first order need to educate about "crypto" in El Salvador when that is not the case in El Salvador.. at least not any kind of primary focus.

You have no option of using bitcoin directly, you need some software like wallet. Interacting with such software means you need to understand how crypto works (and why Chivo wallet is not as safe as an open source non custodial wallet).

It is not directly what bitcoin is.

Huh?  You seem to be talking about something else.

El Salvador implemented a law that made bitcoin legal tender.

Yes, there are a variety of implementation questions, but those implementation questions are about bitcoin and bitcoin related matters.

When people use the term crypto, they are either just being vague in terms of not knowing how to employ the word bitcoin into their language, or they deceptively talking about something that is not bitcoin, such as shitcoins.

Let's not get into technicalities, just clear up your language jokers10 so we can attempt to understand if you are talking about bitcoin or some other topic..

LN is not bitcoin also, it is made to work with bitcoin but not is bitcoin itself.

What's your point?  lighting network (LN) is a way of transmitting, storing and facilitating various services on bitcoin.. sure it is a slightly different thing than bitcoin, but it is related to bitcoin, and a way to attempt to utilize bitcoin... in terms of not being bitcoin, who gives any ratts' asses about that?  You seem to be getting distracted if you are proclaiming that LN is not sufficiently bitcoin, so therefore you can vaguely refer to all kinds of other bullshit including but not limited to vague use of the term crypto.. as if it is some kind of an opening to speak in gobbledy gook.. and I have some difficulties why you are even trying to defend your use of the term.. .. can you at least try to clarify what you mean and put bitcoin in there and maybe repost what you were trying to say.. if you actually were trying to speak about bitcoin rather than just purposefully propagating confusion regarding what points you might have had, if any?

I don't really mean to be confrontational, but your choice to double down on seemingly meaningless mumbo-jumbo does not come off as really helpful in getting anywhere either...

So we can talk about which part of crypto should Salvadorians be educated first (including why other cryptocurrencies are risky to use) but not that there should be no crypto education at all.

Are you talking about bitcoin or what?  Maybe you can clarify?  It is not just about technically attempting to be a purist about word choice, but trying to figure out what are you talking about exactly? 

Sure there have been some criticisms that the El Salvador government did not make enough efforts to educate people about various aspects of their implementation of the bitcoin law, but a lot of those accusations are vague because there seems to be all kinds of activities around the fact that the bitcoin law has been implemented in the first place and even the fact that the law has provided a kind of space in which it becomes way easier to learn about bitcoin as a topic and also to actually apply it whether individually or various institutions or businesses. I doubt that there is any rush to force people to learn, so there is likely a lot of back and forth in terms of a lot of different efforts that sometimes might come through governmental actions and mandates and implementation measures, and the various ways that individuals and other non-governmental actors are taking actions too.

Again, maybe you can attempt to specify what it is that you are talking about and how it relates to what you envision to be happening in El Salvador in relation to bitcoin?  Yeah, of course there is the Chivo wallet and there are other wallets too, and we have seen some various posts about some of the data related to expanded usage of various bitcoin related systems in El Salvador, but we have also seen reports and claims that there might be some concerns that adoption is happening too slow or that the population is overly confused about what is bitcoin, and even you suggested that these matters take time.. but you did not use the word bitcoin so it became a bit more difficult trying to figure out what you might have been contemplating to be going on in El Salvador or what they were doing there back to your choice to ongoingly use of such vague term such as crypto.

When I talk about crypto to be taught I mean what is bitcoin,

Why not use the term bitcoin then, if that is what you were talking about?  It does not make you appear smarter or more academic or detached to use a vague term such as crypto if you are really talking about bitcoin.   Do you have some other reason to not use the term bitcoin so we know that's what you meant?

how decentralization works, how to use wallets and how to choose wallets, what are other cryptocurrencies and which are risks of using them (at least not to be cheated with fake bitcoins and bitcoin forks), what is LN and how it works, — it is a bit wider than to learn bitcoin.

I already responded to the idea that there might be times in which some clarification might be needed in regards to bitcoin as compared with shitcoins or that some wallets might have shitcoin features, but I still doubt that learning about various shitcoins would be central to whatever the Salvadorean government is trying to achieve or any of the non-governmental organizations that are focused on various aspects of helping to educate Salvadorean people regarding El Salvador's bitcoin law implementation.  It could be in some sense that we might be quibbling, about how any particular education campaign might be framed or the kinds of subjects that might come up and choices that individuals might take in terms of how to present various bitcoin-related topics in El Salvador, but I still doubt any characterization that they have goals to teach about "crypto" in El Salvador or that it is even a good way of trying to describe what has already happened in El Salvador, what the state on the ground in El Salvador is right now and/or what they are trying to do in El Salvador to work towards their bitcoin adoption future. 

At the risk of repeating myself too much, yeah of course, shitcoins are in El Salvador and striving to get their little scams into El Salvador, but El Salvador specifically choose to write their law in a way that is bitcoin specific, and shitcoins are different than bitcoin in a lot of ways.. bringing us back to the question about why use the word "crypto" when trying to describe what is happening in El Salvador related to bitcoin.. back to you jokers10?

This is not the best time for Bitcoin advocacy in and around El Salvador, as the Bitcoin adoption has been viewed as a bad idea by some segments of El Salvadorans because of its volatile nature, and seeing the present Bitcoin price conditions make it hard to b advocate for Bitcoin retail adoption. But before now we all saw how the whole internet and the Bitcoin community was engorged with El Salvador Bitcoin sermons not until the market took a downturn at the beginning of the year 2022.

Huh?

There's nothing wrong for the El Salvadorean government and or related entities to continue to press forward with their bitcoin information and various aspect of their bitcoin implementation.  Frequently, a lot of work can get done during times in which BTC prices are suppressed.  Of course, current spot price and ongoing dynamics related to BTC spot price is not comfortable for everyone, but I doubt that there is any need to just shut it off, wind it down or whatever other depression-based approach you are suggesting to be the better way forward.  Maybe we should just recommend that the El Salvadorean government just shut the whole thing down, like the IMF suggested that they do.. ?  The IMF is correct, right?  El Salvador should have never gotten involved in such a wild and crazy idea like bitcoin, right? That's the better way to go forward?

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This is not the best time for Bitcoin advocacy in and around El Salvador, as the Bitcoin adoption has been viewed as a bad idea by some segments of El Salvadorans because of its volatile nature, and seeing the present Bitcoin price conditions make it hard to b advocate for Bitcoin retail adoption. But before now we all saw how the whole internet and the Bitcoin community was engorged with El Salvador Bitcoin sermons not until the market took a downturn at the beginning of the year 2022.
legendary
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<…> then we can say that salvador has now lost about 50% of the assets they own <…>
Not really of the assests, but rather of the value of those assets, measured in counter-valued fiat terms … but only on the books to date, since they are unrealized losses until they actually sell their BTCs.

That doesn’t mean that the situation is not worrying at some level for them, not only from the perception perspective, but also from the bookkeeping point of view. The bitcoins owned by the government allegedly came from the initial 150M $ bitcoin Trust established to give liquidity to the Chivo System. I say allegedly because, if my memory serves me well, the initial statements pointed in this fashion, but there is no explicit mention to all subsequent purchases. Even so, the Trust likely has some bookkeeping rules to comply with, and standing at a loss of say those mentioned 40M $, even if only on the paper, may trigger some inner problems at some point in time.
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I think El Salvador government prepared before they accepted bitcoin as a legal tender, see what Alejandro Zelaya, the minister of finance of El Salvador said about buying bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-has-not-had-any-losses-due-to-bitcoin-price-dive-finance-minister-says

Quote
“There is a clear criticism of Bitcoin as such, not of El Salvador's strategy. El Salvador is what interests them the least, they [the media outlet] are not interested in what happens to our economy, they are not interested in what happens with our people, what happens with inflation.”

Quote
“I have said it repeatedly: A supposed loss of 40 million dollars has not occurred because we have not sold the coins.”

We all know that the second  quote is true, 1 BTC is equals to 1 BTC, if El Salvador has not sold bitcoin, this is not loss. Some holders will see the price falling, only what they think about is to wait for another years for all-time-high.

How do you see people that are criticizing El Salvador government as bitcoin price has decreased? As for me, I see them as someone that will only panic and sell, thinking they have lost money, but latter regret this in long term when the price of bitcoin reach all-time-high.
El Salvador has bought 2,301 bitcoins in the last few years and if we look at the lowest price they bought around $30k some time ago, then we can say that salvador has now lost about 50% of the assets they own, as an adopting country bitcoin of course there will be fear from their people about the fiscal occurrence of the el salvador economy due to a bad market, I hope if president nayib bukelele can still keep the salvador economy stable under current conditions.
legendary
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As far as I have heard, so far there is no goal to educate Salvadoreans about "crypto" unless it is incidentally to focus on bitcoin, and to imply to stay away from that other shit.  The same would be true in regards to the various other non-governmental forces in El Salvador which would be focusing on bitcoin, lightning network and matters related to those - not shitcoins or "crypto" .. fuck that shit..

Of course, there would be no way to completely escape shitcoins and their desires to figure out ways to attempt to benefit from El Salvador's decision to make bitcoin legal tender.. so I suppose I am not going to disagree that there may well be ongoing needs to make sure that stupid-ass vague framings such as "crypto" does not confuse bitcoin with shitcoins and some of the likely incidental needs to clarify those kinds of points that bitcoin and crypto is not the same thing... so stop trying to suggest that there is some kind of first order need to educate about "crypto" in El Salvador when that is not the case in El Salvador.. at least not any kind of primary focus.

You have no option of using bitcoin directly, you need some software like wallet. Interacting with such software means you need to understand how crypto works (and why Chivo wallet is not as safe as an open source non custodial wallet). It is not directly what bitcoin is. LN is not bitcoin also, it is made to work with bitcoin but not is bitcoin itself. So we can talk about which part of crypto should Salvadorians be educated first (including why other cryptocurrencies are risky to use) but not that there should be no crypto education at all. When I talk about crypto to be taught I mean what is bitcoin, how decentralization works, how to use wallets and how to choose wallets, what are other cryptocurrencies and which are risks of using them (at least not to be cheated with fake bitcoins and bitcoin forks), what is LN and how it works, — it is a bit wider than to learn bitcoin.
legendary
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The vicious circle starts when there is poverty that does not allow to get education and therefore there is a perpetuation of poverty. The president of Salvador (as any good president would) is trying to break this circle by attacking the poverty but he should also attack the ignorance at the same time, if possible, because we would encounter himself swimming against the stream otherwise. The vicious circles are quite hard to break at a personal level, ever harder at a nationwide level.

Yes, I understand that it is not a trivial problem to educate a society of an entire state so they can get better understanding of economy and crypto. But to adopt bitcoin we IMO have no other ways as any crypto solutions are still not so easy to use. To get all benefits crypto can give and not to lose crypto user should get enough economic knowledge. It is hard but it is the only way, IMHO.

As far as I have heard, so far there is no goal to educate Salvadoreans about "crypto" unless it is incidentally to focus on bitcoin, and to imply to stay away from that other shit.  The same would be true in regards to the various other non-governmental forces in El Salvador which would be focusing on bitcoin, lightning network and matters related to those - not shitcoins or "crypto" .. fuck that shit..

Of course, there would be no way to completely escape shitcoins and their desires to figure out ways to attempt to benefit from El Salvador's decision to make bitcoin legal tender.. so I suppose I am not going to disagree that there may well be ongoing needs to make sure that stupid-ass vague framings such as "crypto" does not confuse bitcoin with shitcoins and some of the likely incidental needs to clarify those kinds of points that bitcoin and crypto is not the same thing... so stop trying to suggest that there is some kind of first order need to educate about "crypto" in El Salvador when that is not the case in El Salvador.. at least not any kind of primary focus.
legendary
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...
The vicious circle starts when there is poverty that does not allow to get education and therefore there is a perpetuation of poverty. The president of Salvador (as any good president would) is trying to break this circle by attacking the poverty but he should also attack the ignorance at the same time, if possible, because we would encounter himself swimming against the stream otherwise. The vicious circles are quite hard to break at a personal level, ever harder at a nationwide level.

Yes, I understand that it is not a trivial problem to educate a society of an entire state so they can get better understanding of economy and crypto. But to adopt bitcoin we IMO have no other ways as any crypto solutions are still not so easy to use. To get all benefits crypto can give and not to lose crypto user should get enough economic knowledge. It is hard but it is the only way, IMHO.
legendary
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Great.

I am glad that you did not take my response/suggestion personally.  

For anyone to really attempt to communicate better in regards to bitcoin, then it is better to try to use the term bitcoin when referring to bitcoin and surely sometimes there might be a need or preference to use the term crypto, also..  and frequently if you are trying to use the term bitcoin whenever you are referring to bitcoin, then for sure, your writing will become more clear (and maybe even your thinking about the topic will become more clear too?) and even your use of the term crypto (when you do decide to use such term) will be more likely to be better understood and within a better context too.
For me I don't think anyone that wants to grow in this industry would take any good advice personal. You corrected my post few months ago I was dumbfounded.The manner my post was analysed and each of my errors discussed extensively made me fret. At a point I was ashamed but I summoned courage and reread my post and your comments and I was really enlightened. I have specifically learnt never to compare or generalize Bitcoin with other shitcoins. Doing that is a grave offence. Most of us have learnt and will keep learning from you because your corrections are detailed and enlightening. Even though sometimes it bites, but at the end its rewarding.  

Most of the time, I do not intend to be mean when I respond to the ideas of others, and sure sometimes some of members will take my comments in a personal way, so there is always some potential that some kind of back and forth exchange of ideas might end up devolving into personal attacks.. It does happen from time to time.. .
legendary
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We should also not forget that El Salvador is a poor country, their president bought a risky investment near the all time high and he used taxpayers money to buy this risky investment. What would this make him appear in front of his constituents presently that bitcoin has dumped?
...

It is a question of enlightenment: if El Salvador's government wants to have high enough support despite low rates of bitcoin it should educate Salvadorians more and give them enough economical and crypto information. If Salvadorians will understand that it is not a problem that long term investments went down in short prospective they will still support their government despite low rates of bitcoin. If not... well, we all can guess what can be then.

As South American, my opinion is that the topic of education is a vicious circle when comes to countries with social problems. Education in general is an important weapon against poverty and manipulation, ignorance itself is something taken advantage of to manipulate the masses, we all know that.

One can call El Salvador a "poor" country and part of this problem is the lack of education and culture there are nations that have such a strong culture about work and education that allows its population to be reborn from the ashes, Japan is a good example.

The vicious circle starts when there is poverty that does not allow to get education and therefore there is a perpetuation of poverty. The president of Salvador (as any good president would) is trying to break this circle by attacking the poverty but he should also attack the ignorance at the same time, if possible, because we would encounter himself swimming against the stream otherwise. The vicious circles are quite hard to break at a personal level, ever harder at a nationwide level.
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We should also not forget that El Salvador is a poor country, their president bought a risky investment near the all time high and he used taxpayers money to buy this risky investment. What would this make him appear in front of his constituents presently that bitcoin has dumped?
...

It is a question of enlightenment: if El Salvador's government wants to have high enough support despite low rates of bitcoin it should educate Salvadorians more and give them enough economical and crypto information. If Salvadorians will understand that it is not a problem that long term investments went down in short prospective they will still support their government despite low rates of bitcoin. If not... well, we all can guess what can be then.
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In my opinion, this statement is the mass and media consumption of something similar to populism. No party that uses cryptocurrencies periodically can not be affected by a sharp decline in price, whether in the current wave or others in previous crises and even the next.
For savers

I do say one thing that it is better to have a rough start and gain a good finishing, what will be the cost and price of a success if never been through difficulties, time kike this should be a testing and trial times for El-Savador and Central African Republic to make the good record of history they would live to requone with in the future to come, what will it be said of this two countries if the price of bitcoin breaks the limit of it all time high and mark a nee history, we all want the glory but not one want to experience the story, i believe theirs a great reward for every bravery decision made in life as such in the case of El-Savador and Central African Republic who adopted bitcoin as a legal tender.
all done with great intention and courage and believe that what is done to bitcoin will always bring good news. even though it is currently in a slump, the past has proven that bitcoin has surprised at high prices. bitcoin will always do this over and over, so no need to worry about this. elsavador has taken the best steps and it is a phenomenal record for a developing country to be willing to adopt bitcoin as a recognized means of payment. it must have been obvious that everything had been thought out carefully about what was to come but bold action was something that was greatly appreciated.
legendary
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I would not feel suprised if the FMI and the World bank started to issue some official declarations against the "unwise" investment made by the Salvador in Bitcoin, I would not feel surprised either if some protests started there under the narrative that the president is gambling the money of the people away, etc.

We all know Bitcoin has powerful enemies and during this bear market they weill show up again, wielding as well the Terra-Luna and Celsius cases as extra ammo to seed the FUD around the community and the people of Salvador.
It would only be matter of time, what would be said as an unwise decision made by countries that legalize bitcoin as a legal tender would be later changed to a brave decision that later favoured. Bitcoin price decreases and unfavoured period like this present bear market has been in history, not only in 2022 but back then in 2014 and 2018. These should not be a surprise but a possible indication that next long period bull market is coming and should probably be in less than 2 or 3 years from now. It can be far, but the months of bulls that will lead to all-time-high will become tomorrow soon. You are saying the truth, the world has been full of lies since the beginning of human advancement.

We should also not forget that El Salvador is a poor country, their president bought a risky investment near the all time high and he used taxpayers money to buy this risky investment. What would this make him appear in front of his constituents presently that bitcoin has dumped?
Can you see what I quote in bold now when I first brought the topic, you can read it below:

I think El Salvador government prepared before they accepted bitcoin as a legal tender, see what Alejandro Zelaya, the minister of finance of El Salvador said about buying bitcoin.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/el-salvador-has-not-had-any-losses-due-to-bitcoin-price-dive-finance-minister-says

Quote
“There is a clear criticism of Bitcoin as such, not of El Salvador's strategy. El Salvador is what interests them the least, they [the media outlet] are not interested in what happens to our economy, they are not interested in what happens with our people, what happens with inflation.”

Quote
“I have said it repeatedly: A supposed loss of 40 million dollars has not occurred because we have not sold the coins.”

I hope you can get the meaning of that bolded quote, that is just how the world is, there are bitcoin critics and people prefer to take up the unimportant part that is not having significant effect on economy compared to the main ones they should talk about. Bitcoin adoption is not the problem of El Salvador, even El Salvador is not as rich as many other countries when it comes to citizens holding and buying bitcoin. People just failed to understand that countries that do not make bitcoin a legal tender but their citizens buy are also having such effect just like El Salvador, but people are not talking about that but focus on what is not.

I support the inspiration of uniting South America under bitcoin, however, it appears reality has come again to kill the dream. But what has just occured is they have become bagholders. If someone told you a country and a multibillion electric car company would become bagholders of bitcoin, no one would believe you hehehehe.
There is not dream that reality kill, bitcoin adoption continues as a result of what has happened in the past. I hope you are not the type that will change your mind during bull and again change your mind during bear and change your mind again during bull. Bitcoin is a safe haven but in long term, not short term.

I scratch my head when you question someone if their mind changes if it is a bull or bear market hehe. My argument is similar to yours. El Salvador's bitcoin investment and how it appears to world will be continued to be questioned not only by the critics. It will be questioned by their own people because it is their money that is being used in what might appear for them to be a gamble made by Bukele.
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In my opinion, this statement is the mass and media consumption of something similar to populism. No party that uses cryptocurrencies periodically can not be affected by a sharp decline in price, whether in the current wave or others in previous crises and even the next.
For savers

I do say one thing that it is better to have a rough start and gain a good finishing, what will be the cost and price of a success if never been through difficulties, time kike this should be a testing and trial times for El-Savador and Central African Republic to make the good record of history they would live to requone with in the future to come, what will it be said of this two countries if the price of bitcoin breaks the limit of it all time high and mark a nee history, we all want the glory but not one want to experience the story, i believe theirs a great reward for every bravery decision made in life as such in the case of El-Savador and Central African Republic who adopted bitcoin as a legal tender.
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At Which volume, i don't think that's so important in this situation, since Bitcoin is a decentralized currency and being used and adopted as an alternative currency in El Salvador, the volume at which the country reserve stands is what is important and since 1 Bitcoin= 1 Bitcoin and the 2,301 holding is still intact El Salvador government through the president understand the game quite well and are prepared what this even before the Bitcoin adoption and that can be deduced from the minister of finance interview yesterday.

In my opinion, this statement is the mass and media consumption of something similar to populism. No party that uses cryptocurrencies periodically can not be affected by a sharp decline in price, whether in the current wave or others in previous crises and even the next.
For savers, we cannot talk about a definite loss as long as the savings have not been touched and as long as there is a firm conviction that the price will return to the rise. But once they think about their use, they are necessarily losers. Do not forget, my friend, that we are here to talk about a country-wide investment with an important economic size .

We should also not forget that El Salvador is a poor country, their president bought a risky investment near the all time high and he used taxpayers money to buy this risky investment. What would this make him appear in front of his constituents presently that bitcoin has dumped?

I support the inspiration of uniting South America under bitcoin, however, it appears reality has come again to kill the dream. But what has just occured is they have become bagholders. If someone told you a country and a multibillion electric car company would become bagholders of bitcoin, no one would believe you hehehehe.
But do you really think that the main purpose of taking such a dangerous step using taxpayers' money is for the state to become a storehouse of Bitcoin? This would not have required a law to legalize it on the scale of the daily use of individuals, nor would its adoption be accompanied by that wave of populist propaganda.
The approach with Tesla for electric cars is not appropriate in this example, because the company is solid and strong compared to the case of countries such as El Salvador and other countries in the southern half of the American continent.
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