Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 117. (Read 40869 times)

Factually, you are little bit incorrect on your description of El Salvador's implementation of bitcoin as legal tender.  They announced it in early June 2021, and a few days later when the legislation actually passed, the law set forth the actual implementation of Bitcoin as legal tender 90 days after the passage of the legislation, which ended up being September 7, 2021.

Time will tell as far as whether El Salvador's debt situation is going to improve with the implementation of the bitcoin as legal tender law.  Surely, they have likely attracted a decent amount of attention to themselves and even economic inflows into their country by their first-mover bold stance in regards to bitcoin, and various other bitcoin supportive actions - the bitcoin bond, ideas about bitcoin city, various potential tax benefits to bitcoiners, attempting to bitcoin capital in various ways and potentially some other measures that are being discussed, such as additional bitcoin-friendly legislation.

In recent times, they seem to have attracted a lot of smart people within the bitcoin community, so even with various attempts from the international finance/governance community at punishing El Salvador, bitcoin still may well end up improving the lot of El Salvador as compared with their having had stuck with their earlier ongoing endebtedness path without bitcoin.

Sorry I have to quote this thread here as I started it not knowing there is a separate thread here discussing all that relate to El Salvador Bitcoin adoption and it development, I have locked the thread now and have to quote it here for further discussion on the progress and the challenges of El Salvador 🇸🇻 as a Bitcoin country.

So.. for sure it would be good to figure out the various multiple systems that are potentially used for remittances - and even if the public might not be able to get access to some of those private services, the El Salvador government should be able to find out some of that data.. .furthermore, even if some of the current data (and claims) is suggesting that bitcoin is hardly being used for remittances, it would probably be good to see the before and after... so maybe even going back one year before the June 2021 announcement that the new law was going into place. so maybe there are seasonal aspects, too.. see month to month comparisons that attempt to somewhat comprehensively catalogue remittances.. because in that regard, even when Bukele made his June 7, 2021 announcement of his intention to push through a bitcoin legal tender law in El Salvador, he already had supposed data and claims regarding how much value was coming into the country through remittances.

That is true, but I like what Nayib Bukele tweeted recently that I quoted above:

According to BCR, barely (less than) 2% of El Salvadorans are using Chivo wallet for remittance according to your posts and the link provided. This could have been because of the complaints of money loss as some people were complaining few weeks ago that their money (USD, not bitcoin) was missing, which can be though to little extent but in a way not aiding Chivo wallet adoption by Salvadorans for remittance. What I am thinking of is that a friend will be telling a friend not to use this as a result of the people complaining and the complain went viral. This is what El Salvadoran government should have worked towards in a way there will be no problem about Chivo wallet.

What is more concerning is that the use of Chivo wallet was reported to be declining, I hope the error that happened in the past will never happen again. If is was only the phishing attempt that was recorded, this should not be causing reduction on the number of people using the wallet. I hope all will be working perfectly so El Salvadorans can have the confidence in Chivo wallet again. If it is 2% of people that are using it but the users are increasing, that would have been better and encouraging.

But what is most important which I still like is that El Salvador is supporting bitcoin, citizens can still use it even in a noncustododial way which is even better and what is most important.

Also this tells us that El Salvadoran government is not forcing citizens to make payment using bitcoin compulsorily.

One of the declared objectives of making bitcoin a legal tender in El Salvador, is to facilitate remittances and lower their cost. The Chivo System is a currently centrepiece in all of this, as it is probably what most people are using when making bitcoin TXs (as opposed to using a non-custodial wallet of their choice).

A given Twitter user has been tabulating official government data on remittances to the country (from official sources such as this one), and is keeping track of the monthly evolution both of the overall remittance numbers, and those specifically attributed to "digital wallets" (as they call them):


The data states that remittances using bitcoin are pretty low, and amount to less than 2%, without any signs of picking up traction over time so far.

Needless to say, that they probably derive data from the Chivo System to the extent they can, and any remittances circumventing the Chivo System are either estimated and added to the figure, or most likely, unaccounted for.

See:

https://elsalvadorgram-com.translate.goog/2022/02/a-penas-el-2-de-las-remesas-se-envian-a-traves-de-la-chivo-wallet-a-el-salvador-segun-el-bcr/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Aside from the many benefits of Bitcoin, El Salvador just announced a 30% increase in revenue from tourism after Bitcoin adoption and this will untimely lead to an increase in the country's general GDP in the long run, while other countries are trying to get a grip on what is happening in the cryptocurrency industry El Salvador is already counting it benefits all to the many advantages of Bitcoin adoption.
Source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/tourism-in-el-salvador-up-30-since-bitcoin-adoption-minister-says

Ideally, US should not interfere in other people's economies and political affairs but unfortunately, this is not the case. Instead, the US is one of those countries that try to interfere in almost every country as they are the superpower that indirectly controls the world.

You're right, he doesn't understand Bitcoin at all and is just bragging for no apparent reason. Very frivolous I think enough to ask him the big question, If all countries are back in USD then why are Russia and Ukraine flocking after yesterday's escalating dispute instead of focusing on the legality of Bitcoin in their countries? Even now Biden will launch an order to start trying to open a discussion space for cryptocurrencies in the US as one of the proofs that Bitcoin is very influential. El Salvador has gone ahead and blindly proved after the adoption of Bitcoin with a GDP increase of over 10%.

Making bitcoin a legal tender in El Salvador means it is a payment needed to be added and made compulsory, but the compulsion is not beyond adding it to payment system along with USD. Retail buyer and sellers can choose what they want, Marchants in the country will only include bitcoin along with USD for payment, but it is left to people to either accept bitcoin or USD. El Salvador in this way makes bitcoin not compulsory to be used, citizens can choose which one they want, either bitcoin, USD or both.

What they were in before but the country was sinking in debts.

I like people to oppose something, but when opposing without no valid reasons but just an opinion, then the opinion is not valid.

I have not seen any reason this will fail because if anyone do not want to use bitcoin, they should be using USD, accepting payment in USD and paying in USD. El Salvador gives their citizens the right to access both currencies, which is freedom.

If 80% of El Salvadorans are not having bank account, this can be an easy means for international payments and local payments, no need to go through the hell in bank than to convert the coin to USD or use it to buy directly. This will make El Salvadoran's lives easier.

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For me not to have consecutive posts on a thread, this will be a better idea. I hope it is not too voluminous to read, I will make it not long.

El Salvador president Nayib Bukele announced there was 10% GDP growth in his country last year after bitcoin has been made a legal tender, now Minister Morena Valdez which is Salvadoran Tourism minister, announced that tourism is 30% up since Bitcoin adoption.

Tourism in El Salvador up 30% since Bitcoin adoption, minister says

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You may also like this, Bitcoin is making El Salvador popular

Pro-Bitcoin president of El Salvador to offer citizenship for foreign investors

Tweet from Nayib Bukele


I think this is a nice plan.

The good news, is that all for phishing sites I mentioned before are no longer available. There is nevertheless a new site I’ve found, baiting people now with a different pitch: Instead of offering a flat 50$ for completing the Chivo (fake) survey, they’re now offering an additional guaranteed 25% on top of your Chivo Wallet’s balance:


The WhoIs states that the domain was created on the 12/02/2022, so I presume they are forking their strategy (I haven't seen anything reported on the matter as such yet though).

$60k+ i would say since its the ATH, no one really expected that for Bitcoin to reach up that high and now we've seeing it to be come a legal tender then we are witnessing on how it would able to play
out and so far El Salvador had withstand that volatility issues yet its President do even accumulates even more despite of such volatileness.Lots had already been discouraging on stopping
on what its currently doing but they did just ignore it out.There are already some talks and hunches about next possibly country to do the same.

Bukele is a pioneer & will go down in the history books as a hero to his people. He’s made a massive decision & it’ll benefit his people massively. Their GDP is already up over 10% since they adopted bitcoin as legal tender. When he did so it was a massive step & El Salvador is the first of many. We will see dozens of nations follow his lead over the next decade or so. Strap up & buckle in, it’s going to be a hell of a ride.

right now you can't say Bitcoin won't work in El Salvador.  Bitcoin adoption that El Salvador has done has a long-term goal, besides that, you don't need to buy 1 Bitcoin to become a Bitcoin investor, you can use the smallest conversion ^(satoshi).  don't be pessimistic, even since 10 years ago there have been many people who are not sure the price of bitcoin will go to $50k.

It is funny how you seem to have the conclusion all figured out...

Your lack of factual description causes me to conclude that you have no clue about what bitcoin is providing or potentially providing in El Salvador.

Sure, it might fail in the end, but surely not for anything even close to the reasons (or lack thereof) that you have stated.

Actually, consider remittances by itself.


Then consider the ability for many people to become banked (at least with a bitcoin kind of an account) who had previously been unbanked.

Then consider that so far various forms of lightning interactions (whether Chivo or using other lightning wallets) are nearly free to transact (at least so far).

In other words, there are quite a few ways (even considering some of the basics), that bitcoin provides value and options to the overall Salvadorean citizens, even if the overall system might not end up being a resounding success in terms of sustainability and being able to soundly manage the overall system with bitcoin-related capital that seems to be currently coming into El Salvador because of their various announced measures (that were ONLY announced last June .. so just over 8 months ago.. still newly developing systems there.

I am thinking the step for this country to make BTC a legal tender is going to come to a crashing end. Majority of the citizens can not afford to buy any BTC as they struggle to make ends meet.

In the end the country will go back to just USD or another FIAT system.

It is just not going to work.

Three United States senetors proposed a bill that was said will mitigate risks to United States financial system from El Salvador’s Bitcoin law, making Bitcoin a legal tender.

https://www.bitcoininsider.org/article/149435/new-bill-aims-mitigate-risks-us-el-salvadors-bitcoin-law



But the Salvadoran president, Nayib Bukele tweeted that US has 0 jurisdiction on a sovereign and independent nation.

What is US trying to do about El Salvador concerning making Bitcoin a legal tender?

No, US has no right to give sanctions to El Salvador. In my opinion, to decide Bitcoin as a legal tender is El Salvador's internal affair. So, no other country can intervene in this policy because it has nothing to do with other countries. If El Salvador can succeed with this crazy decision, it is their own achievement. Or if they failed, it is their own failure, no influence to another country. Simply, as long as it is not international affairs, US cannot give them santions.

Sure it can, but unlike Chivo to Chivo TXs which are free, Sending a TX to a wallet outside the Chivo Sytems will logically incur in network fees (not Chivo fees).

Actually, related to this, one of the most interesting stats I would like to see (which I probably won’t) is that of the number of TXs over time from Chivo to Chivo (there are some old early day ones available, but that’s it), and the number of TX from Chivo to third party wallets and vice-versa. Surely, the former is going to be behind the vast majority of the TXs, but the latter would give interesting insights.

El Salvador is a democratic nation having executive, 84-member legislative and judiciary system of government. But you know that what the executive and the legislative arms of government agreed upon is what citizens will follow. El Salvador do not have the local currency of their own, they are spending United States Dollar, this could be what triggered the use of Bitcoin also as a legal tender in El Salvador. More research would have been made about making Bitcoin a legal tender in the country and the arms of government know that Bitcoin will help the country but over long time.

You even know how the executive and legislative arm of government opinion can override central bank hatred for Bitcoin in any democratic country.

I think I read in the past that the president of El Salvador passed the bill to the legislative arm to make bitcoin a legal tender which they later also accepted. El Salvador is not a sovereign nation. One of the good reasons I read that time is that even 80% Salvadorians are not having bank account, that Bitcoin can be useful for those people.

I will like to know if the Chivo wallet can be used to send Bitcoin to other wallets like noncustododial wallets, but most likely this will be possible on Chivo wallet just like other custodial wallets. What I feared most about cryptocurrencies is phishing attack, the people's personal information collected can be used later against the people. It will be very bad if a Bitcoin user in El Salvador is attacked and the attackers telling him to send all his coins to their noncustododial wallet address. I have not heard this type of attack before but nothing is impossible and it can start from somewhere. This phishing attack can still later lead to a means the attackers will successfully steal Bitcoin from the people their personal information were collected.

About US, sanction for what? Is El Salvador building a nuclear weapon or doing what could cause damage to other countries, or is El Salvador like Afghanistan that is against human rights for women? I do not see any reason why US should sanction El Salvador when also US is supporting Bitcoin.

I think the criticism from outside is the smallest problem. It's probably more foreign institutions that have no interest in the success of crypto, first and foremost the IMF, but also the US. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. imposes sanctions on the country sooner or later, should the introduction of Bitcoin become a success.