Topic: El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻 - page 125. (Read 38852 times)

1) I would imagine that having options is not going to be a bad thing, so you can characterize the bitcoin option as oppressively as you like, but you likely do need to consider the matter with some comparisons, and if it is cheaper to transact through western union or whatever other option, then they can use that western union option (especially if it is the cheapest and easiest to use), but of course, western union is going to raise their prices based on the competition, right?  or move out of El Salvador, right?

2) have you heard of lightning network or strike?  So far the fees have tended to be quite low on lightning network (and strike too, from what I understand - nearly free), but surely if the the quantity of usage exists longer in El Salvador and become more widely spread in terms of people transacting in bitcoin in El Salvador, probably the fees on lightning/strike will adjust to those new circumstances.. competition will likely come in to El Salvador, too.. in terms of other ways to use lightning network or maybe other second layer or even first layer transactions.

Hmm,
Don't count your bitcoin havens before they hatch.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-16/bitcoin-is-now-legal-tender-in-el-salvador-is-that-really-a-good-thing


https://www.coindesk.com/hankebitcoin-el-salvador



https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee

Hmm, Nope
BTC average transaction fee is almost = to an entire day pay of 1 in 4 Salvadorans.
 

https://www.livemint.com/market/cryptocurrency/world-bank-rejects-el-salvador-request-for-help-in-adopting-bitcoin-11623977988052.html

World Bank rejects El Salvador's request for help in adopting bitcoin. The point to be noted here is it rejected because of "environmental and transparency shortcomings".

Does World Bank take its suggestions on Twitter..? I also have a doubt like whether they really want to do it or just replied with the most dumb thing..?

My reaction is not triggered.  If you seem to be making pie in the sky speculation and also seem to be coming to quite strange and stretched conclusions that might even be lacking in factual or logical basis in a public thread, then it is likely good to attempt to address the extent to which your speculation might be grounded in reality or not or if the logic seems to be strong or not.


The extent to which some places seem to be scared and spreading outrageous nonsense might be reason to find us (talking about bitcoin) in a price pump.. soon^tm

Although El Salvador is a small country in Central and South America, it has a population of 6.5 million. These 6.5 million people will be potential users of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is definitely more beneficial than exploitable.

As an old leek, I am very grateful to El Salvador for his wise decision. Pull back the Bitcoin that has almost fallen into shit from the edge of the cliff.

Most likely there are more countries that could consider Bitcoin and pass the bill. Now we are officially seeing the country that is in legal Bitcoin adoption. Some countries are so much afraid about Bitcoin but El Salvador is different. They are tough and kinda advance with Bitcoin adoption.

@JayJuanGee. I am not quite certain why my reply caused you to get triggered. I was only speculating on what might occur based on how strike.me functions and how it might be deployed and used in El Salvador.

More update on bitcoin in Latin America. The following tweet indicates the accounts of important representatives of the governments of some Latin American countries that support the idea that bitcoin be included as legal use in each of their countries.
Seeing it from our side for when this other important event happens. It will be good news but I am very sure that a significant percentage of the population of those countries have already been using bitcoin in their daily lives.


According to Coinatmradar, the country of El Salvador currently has 2 Bitcoin ATMs.

https://coinatmradar.com/country/64/bitcoin-atm-el-salvador/

Collecting more information in relation to the bitcoin ATMs installed in El Salvador in a reply from its President Nayib Bukele to Athena Bitcoin. He suggested that the country needs about 1500 ATM Bitcoin.


If anyone is curious to know how Strike works. Don't miss this demo by Peter McAxelrod / McCormack
There is also an unmissable thread such as his visit to El Salvador.

You seem to be wanting to pigeonhole bitcoin maximalists, and surely the way that El Salvador is focusing on strike shows that they can see how bitcoin can be used in ways to engage in cheap transactions and potentially to achieve a few objectives in the country - perhaps reducing how badly a large number of El Salvadoreans (at least those using the remittance procedures) are getting ripped off by remittance fees, increasing the number of banked (or at least bitcoin provides some ways for a large segment of the El Salvador population to achieve some kind of banking - even if it might be inferior) and maybe they are thinking that they are able to bring some jobs and industries to their country - including a seemingly after the fact recognition of possible volcano mining.

It seems to me that a lot of so called maximalists are somewhat surprised by the suddenness of this move of an actual country making legal tender out of bitcoin but also that a country would have approached a kind of adoption of bitcoin in the way that it seems to be playing out in El Salvador, including a kind of emphasis on the transactional side of bitcoin rather than bitcoin's likely stronger feature and use case as a store of value..  So maybe after getting over some of the shock and trying to grapple with the fast moving space and to absorb what is going on, maybe later on bitcoin maximalists might become disappointed if you want to ascribe that bullshit expectation to them - because in the end there seems to be hardly anything to get disappointed about unless you make some shit up and say that bitcoin maximalists had some kind of expectation that they did not have.

Sure down the road bitcoin maximalists could become disappointed if El Salvador ends up reversing itself or NOT following through with their going live of the law 90 days from the publication of the law, and so if they end up cancelling or repealing the law before it goes into effect or soon thereafter, then sure at that point, maybe some bitcoin maximalists will become disappointed because they (we) got their (our) hopes up about some further innovations and development and new bitcoin dynamics that could not be reasonably read in any way that is other than bullish for bitcoin unless you want to make some shit up about what bitcoiners were supposedly expecting.

In other words, almost any kind of adoption seems bullish for bitcoin, and I am not sure how you could figure a way that the news is not bullish for bitcoin.  Even if the legal tender law were to be repealed, there  could still continue to be ongoing bitcoin usage and developments in El Salvador and surely El Salvador has shown that they are friendly and receptive to bitcoin, even if they end up taking away the legal tender law designation.



Again, you are coming up with some kind of weird characterizations of what may or may not be going on.  Sure they do not have a dollar printer, but they have the Colon as their national currency, and then now they are going to have bitcoin too.... so sure there will likely be some dollar pegged currencies coming into El Salvador, and who knows if some of the dollar banks are going to want to play hard ball with El Salvador and close up shop there, in El Salvador, but it seems kind of crazy for you,  bbc.reporter, to be speculating about how you know how things are going to play out, and it sounds as if you are just guessing or making up shit.

Personally, I have no problems with attempting to speculate about various kinds of scenarios that could play out, but just stating some kind of vision of the future that seems to be a bit detached from reality does not seem like a very productive way of even attempting to speculate about more likely scenarios.

At least for now, the more likely scenarios have to do with their recent passage of the bitcoin as legal tender law has drawn increased attention on El Salvador..  including that a lot of bitcoin related business are likely going to want to move or develop there, and surely there may well be some citizens in El Salvador who are studying up upon bitcoin, as well.  I am not even proclaiming shitcoins are not going to go to El Salvador, so it seems quite likely that shitcoins will be going to El Salvador too.. and sure could the pressures from outside governments and from outside financial institutions cause El Salvador to modify the legal tender law that they already passed?  Yes.. I think so.. but until we hear news about something like that, we should be trying to consider more likely scenarios that at least in the short to medium term there are going to be a quite a few people and businesses attempting to ramp up for the law going into effect in early September... and just ramping up has consequences and impacts.. so we will see?  We will see? 

You might want to get some bitcoin in case it catches on, bbc.reporter.

 

I disagree. The maximalists were given this expectation that bitcoin will be used as currency after the passing of the law making it legal tender in El Salvador. I know not everyone will be disappointed, however, many will be. Also, strike.me users will not be converting to dollars. They will be converting to dollar derivatives similar to USDT.

El Salvador needs dollars but they do not have a printer. Their government will redollarize by adopting USDT through strike.me and use bitcoin as the payment rail.

On the one hand, Bitcoin does play its role, on the other hand, the essence behind this may be the financing of US dollars. If Bitcoin is used, it will greatly reduce the cost of cross-border transfers. This is where Bitcoin's greatest value and innovation lies, and it provides a simpler and faster way of trading for people in the world who cannot participate in traditional financial services.

What do you mean about maximalists being unhappy?

Strike.me gives the option to convert right away to dollars or to stay in bitcoin, and so what?  people should have those kinds of options.  

Are you referring to that?  or something else?

Let's say hypothetically 90% of the merchants (or the peeps receiving bitcoin) convert to dollars, so there ends up being less demand for bitcoin because almost all of the merchants/recipients are converting to dollars as soon as they receive the bitcoin.  Sure, I am being generous with my hypothetical, but surely we already know that strike makes it easy to convert to dollars, no?

Given the potential for vast conversion from bitcoin to dollars, do you believe that overall that there is going to be less demand for bitcoin because of the allowance to convert to dollars, even with a big assumption that a vast majority of merchants/recipients could chose to convert to dollars right away?

I would bet that so called "maximalists" would prefer that people have options to do whatever they would like and they would likely figure it out, sooner or later, that it is good to hang onto some bitcoin  (maybe even there might be times that it is better to hold more bitcoin and other times that it might be good to hold some in bitcoin and the other part in dollars) rather than converting everything back and forth to dollars... might take some of them a while to figure out some balancing that is comfortable for their own particular circumstances, but I am sure that they will have way more abilities to figure it out when they are actually having experiences and opportunities to use it rather than merely speculating about what they may or may not do if they are NOT in such a position to try it out.

I am not certain and I cannot argue on that, however, it appears that China uses the dollar it gained from exports to America to buy yuan it needs domestically. This also makes it appear that there is demand for yuan hehehe. The excess dollar is used to buy US treasury securites.

In any case, were are offtopic. On this topic, I speculate that El Salvador with a deal with Jack Maller might use strike.me for its bitcoin adoption plans. How does strike.me work? The answer might make the maximalists very unhappy.

Surely, I am not sure about the agenda of forum member bounceback, and I was largely responding to the way that he provided a kind of free interpretation to what had happened in El Salvador, which was not factually accurate.

What was approved in El Salvador, and the legislation and efforts that we are talking about seem to ONLY be about bitcoin - and surely it seems that the President of El Salvador had learned about a kind of bitcoin mini-ecosystem that had developed in and around bitcoin beach in El Salvador (in recent times - maybe a couple of years), so that inspired their bitcoin and lightning network focus in the early stages of their approach.

Time will have to tell how they are going to treat shitcoins, and/or if shitcoins become a problem or if shitcoins can actually serve any helpful role in the country.

In some sense, we already know that a large number of shitcoins free-ride and free-load off the various infrastructure, security and good will that is created, built and maintained through bitcoin, so bitcoin ends up giving a variety of shitcoins and other shitcoin related projects some kinds of cover, or the diptwats take advantage of such cover to both promote their sham bullshit or try to present their shit as if it were the same thing as bitcoin or even better than bitcoin in a variety of ways.

So, even if El Salvador does not give preferential treatment to various shitcoins, shitcoins can end up attempting to take advantage of such an atmosphere - and who knows if there might be some attempts to crack down on shitcoins, which actually would be a good result - but not an easy thing to carry out.



I am surely not going to predict the demise or death of any shitcoins soon - and of course, there can be ways to get in and out of shitcoins and make a lot of money... so even though some of us might consider that to be a waste of time, too risky or even too shady, there seem to be plenty of people who are willing to gamble on various shitcoins or to believe the various baloney talking points.  In other words, if any of us are banking on there no longer being vulnerable people (suckers) to buy into that various crap, we are probably making the wrong bet.



I am not even going to suggest that I have any ideas of what kind of pattern might play out, whether one shitcoin gets replaced by another, or there are new shitcoins or new projects, ICOs, Defi, NFTs or some other "innovative" hook for shitcoiners/scammers to make bank on the next fool.. and lots of fools out there.  Probably more than 95% of the worlds population have no stake in any kind of crypto, so there is a very large potential audience - and surely El Salvador is quite new in this matter too, even though I anticipate that development is ongoing in order to prepare for their 90 window when the law goes into effect on September 7, I believe.  

Maybe El Salvador will also need new laws or enforcement efforts that are ONLY noticed with the passage of time - and probably adoption will still take a while, even though Jack Mallers claimed that at various points prior to the Miami announcement, there had been days that they had onboarded 20k new members per day ... .. so those kinds of adoption numbers are nothing to sneeze at - even though they may or may not be sustainable because perhaps people who already have smart phones are easier to set up than those who do not have that, but some folks might have computers or other kinds of internet devices - especially if we are referring to various kinds of merchants and businesses selling goods and/or services.

Can't put it any better than this. There are two things here. First, we have all these noobs, who start posting fake news here, as soon as there is a trigger. The government of El Salvador awarded Bitcoin the status of legal tender. They are not going to treat shitcoins such as Doge equal to Bitcoin. But the altcoin pump continues. Yesterday when I checked, the Bitcoin dominance was 45%. Today it had decreased to 43.5%. But one thing is sure. For the altcoin fanboys, it is not going to end well. We will have a repeat of what happened in 2018, when many of the alts went down by 99% of more. For many of the shitcoins, the promoters have already dumped the coins and made the exit. It is the low-IQ users who are still stuck with them.

Thankfully this is about bitcoin, not garbage altcoins or the little side projects from the institutions that are destined either shrink or disappear entirely.

Sadly these types are common here, talking about "ecosystem" which is euphemism for altcoins which most (all) reproduce the same flaws of fiat or worse.

The politicians and some media people in my country love the word "cryptocurrencies" its no wonder we have the worst economy of the planet. Bitcoin is no mere cryptocurrency or "something blockchain", Bitcoin is the reason the world is changing, not a blockchain or flawed clones and blockchain less tokens.

Its not about cryptocurrencies, its about Bitcoin. It matters, because the others do not follow the same principles and simply confuse or worse.

I think this is exceptional news, only if it is positive for the market or negative, time will tell. If it is now legal tender and so on and so forth - then the USA tax authority may impose a different tariff - which will have a negative impact on the market. On the other hand, legalization itself is quite a pleasant thing and creates a positive outlook for the cryptocurrency as a whole. But the fact that the moment is historical I think is recognized by all.

Bullshit.  The El Salvador bill (and even the various El Salvador govt reps - or peeps directly involved in discussing the direction of such developments) have not said anything about the "adoption of blockchain-based cryptocurrencies".. at least not so far.. Maybe you need to show me such a link if such a thing exists?

That sounds like your dumbass wishful-thinking interpretive way of framing the matter of what is going on in hope that you or some other dweeb can pump some kind of stupid-ass shitcoins, put out lame and misleading talking points or other nonsense.


At least you have not forgotten about the proper word to reference king daddy.. that's good.    

What will China do with all those T-bills though? They will want to buy stuff with them some day. I can't imagine them hodling those forever. Isn't the US having a trade deficit against China? How long will that continue do you think? ~Printing money and buying stuff from China~ If this keeps happening, some day China will have far more Dollars than the US and that'll happen even though the US has the USD printer. What then?