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Topic: Enjoy? - page 6. (Read 16596 times)

staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
February 11, 2014, 06:28:22 PM
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?m=201402
Quote
Gavin Andresen    Feb 12 2014

You may have noticed that some exchanges have temporarily suspended withdrawals and wondering what’s going on or more importantly, what’s being done about it. You can be rest assured that we have identified the issue and are collectively and collaboratively working on a solution.
 
Somebody (or several somebodies) is taking advantage of the transaction malleability issue and relaying mutated versions of transactions. This is exposing bugs in both the reference implementation and some exchange’s software.
 
We (core dev team, developers at the exchanges, and even big mining pools) are creating workarounds and fixes right now. This is a denial-of-service attack; whoever is doing this is not stealing coins, but is succeeding in preventing some transactions from confirming. It’s important to note that DoS attacks do not affect people’s bitcoin wallets or funds.
 
Users of the reference implementation who are bitten by this bug may see their bitcoins “tied up” in unconfirmed transactions; we need to update the software to fix that bug, so when they upgrade those coins are returned to the wallet and are available to spend again. Only users who make multiple transactions in a short period of time will be affected.
 
As a result, exchanges are temporarily suspending withdrawals to protect customer funds and prevent funds from being misdirected.
 
Thanks for your patience. Follow us @BTCFoundation for updates as we learn more and make progress.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
February 11, 2014, 06:27:19 PM
Why do you assume everywhere is running the same software?   That isn't the case.   I had to have a wallet manually updated because the software couldn't accept a deposit while there were unconfirmed transactions.    Of coarse that is a software problem, but this has shown up at two different places I know of, which means there are like a lot more.
Should the software handle it?  Of course, but it takes time to update software and there are always risks.    
Technically the problem is at the edge of the network, not the network itself.  Functionally though it impacts the use of the network.   Over time the problems will be fixed.    
That is a problem of your software (and whoever made it). If it does have an effect on it, that does not mean it has one of the network or default client.

WRONG - It wasn't my software, it was software at a vendor I was trying to use.   So far we know of two different places where this was a problem including the blockchain.info sweep function.   There are likely many more we don't know about.   For most people this makes up what is perceived to be the bitcoin network.   It doesn't matter that it is outside the network for the average person.  

Brushing off this a problem in other people's software is a lame approach.   The simple fact is that these are not valid transactions and should be in the blockchain in the first place.   Granted it is easy to manually work around.   However, if bitcoin is going to go mainstream we really can't afford to have nonsense issues like this.    

How many places are transactions blocked because software is waiting for there be no unconfirmed transactions for a public address?
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
February 11, 2014, 06:24:43 PM
Yeah I've read that topic. I just don't understand these people. I will openly say that I currently do not know what nLockTime is used for, but I do not post about it claiming random nonsense when I lack the knowledge. That seems the problem in many people. You're most likely correct on the matter.
It's easy. It prevents a transaction from being accepted into the Blockchain before a certain timestamp or block is reached. That is the basic explanation of nLockTime. Nothing more, nothing less.
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
February 11, 2014, 06:19:46 PM
Look at the last merges, devs are already fixing the malleability problem
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xniph/look_at_the_last_merges_devs_are_already_fixing/
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 11, 2014, 06:18:52 PM
Why do you assume everywhere is running the same software?   That isn't the case.   I had to have a wallet manually updated because the software couldn't accept a deposit while there were unconfirmed transactions.    Of coarse that is a software problem, but this has shown up at two different places I know of, which means there are like a lot more.
Should the software handle it?  Of course, but it takes time to update software and there are always risks.    
Technically the problem is at the edge of the network, not the network itself.  Functionally though it impacts the use of the network.   Over time the problems will be fixed.    
That is a problem of your software (and whoever made it). If it does have an effect on it, that does not mean it has one of the network or default client.
That would be a pretty stupid fault in the network, using common sense one must realize that this is not the case.
90-95% users here now lack a fair amount of knowledge, I don't even wanna begin imagining how they see the complex stuff..
+1 for you. And well, here is an example on how they treat complex stuff. It's not that complex, but oh well. Someone states that nLockTime is used for Reverse Transactions. I could be wrong about my statement, but I highly doubt it since I used it to create LockMyCoins (which is currently being redone).
Yeah I've read that topic. I just don't understand these people. I will openly say that I currently do not know what nLockTime is used for, but I do not post about it claiming random nonsense when I lack the knowledge. That seems the problem in many people. You're most likely correct on the matter.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
February 11, 2014, 06:17:48 PM
Dusting is just creating a lot of very small transactions.   It wastes space in the block chain with these dust transactions that still take up room.   I'm not clear on all the applications of it.   There are some theories on how it could be used to help track a wallet back to an IP.

Wrong theories aren't worth much.  Transactions aren't sent to a particular address, there is nothing to trace.

Quote
Another use might be to try to build a list of valid address.   In theory one could generate private keys and see if they match any of the list of known wallets.   If you get a hit you have a valid private key.   That approach is unlikely to work, but it doesn't stop someone from trying.

Um there is thing called the blockchain which already contains every valid address that has received bitcoins.  For an "attacker" to send you a satoshi they would already by definition need to know your address and know it is valid.   

Bitcoin private keys can't be brute forced.  There isn't enough energy in our solar system.   If they could then someone sending you a satoshi is the least of your worries. 


Hmmm, you are assuming there isn't an undiscovered weakness in the code.   Anyway I clearly said is was unlikely to work.   That doesn't stop someone from trying.   
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 109
February 11, 2014, 06:12:59 PM
It is interfering with normal transactions.   Maybe not everywhere but at least some operations.  
No it does not. Please educate yourself before posting nonsense.
These transactions will most likely never be confirmed anyways. They have no impact on the network.

I think what he's saying is:-

His client is using the MIN_OUTPUT size out (From 1Enjoy and any other addresses doing this), and, is using it as an input. As his transaction relies on the transaction that'll never be confirmed, his transaction also won't be confirmed.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 510
February 11, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
It is interfering with normal transactions.   Maybe not everywhere but at least some operations.  
No it does not. Please educate yourself before posting nonsense.
These transactions will most likely never be confirmed anyways. They have no impact on the network.

Why do you assume everywhere is running the same software?   That isn't the case.   I had to have a wallet manually updated because the software couldn't accept a deposit while there were unconfirmed transactions.    Of coarse that is a software problem, but this has shown up at two different places I know of, which means there are like a lot more.

Should the software handle it?  Of course, but it takes time to update software and there are always risks.    

Technically the problem is at the edge of the network, not the network itself.  Functionally though it impacts the use of the network.   Over time the problems will be fixed.  

 
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
February 11, 2014, 06:10:19 PM
I'm glad that I was correct, because I thought that I was going insane and that I should read up on the Bitcoin Network, again.
That would be a pretty stupid fault in the network, using common sense one must realize that this is not the case.
90-95% users here now lack a fair amount of knowledge, I don't even wanna begin imagining how they see the complex stuff..
+1 for you. And well, here is an example on how they treat complex stuff. It's not that complex, but oh well. Someone states that nLockTime is used for Reverse Transactions. I could be wrong about my statement, but I highly doubt it since I used it to create LockMyCoins (which is currently being redone).
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
February 11, 2014, 06:09:11 PM
#99
there's nothing wrong with *any* of this!!  it just means more money for the end user!!
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 11, 2014, 06:05:32 PM
#98
It is interfering with normal transactions.   Maybe not everywhere but at least some operations.  
No it does not. Please educate yourself before posting nonsense.
These transactions will most likely never be confirmed anyways. They have no impact on the network.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 109
February 11, 2014, 06:03:23 PM
#97
Is the person doing this manually though? It would take a lot of time to do this for little gain.

Obviously we can't tell for sure, but, the answer is 99.999% no, it's automated.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
February 11, 2014, 06:00:58 PM
#96
Is the person doing this manually though? It would take a lot of time to do this for little gain.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 109
February 11, 2014, 05:57:01 PM
#95
This has happened before and it has stopped before. Don't panic.

Are you sure it's nothing malicious or anything to worry about?

It's probably just spam. I don't see how it could be malicious.

It is interfering with normal transactions.   Maybe not everywhere but at least some operations.  

Does your client not order by transactions with most priority unless manually stated otherwise? I don't think 1*10^-8 will have a very large priority. Also, I'm feeling left out, no unknown transactions received, just donations, payments, and, outputs from a few of scripts I have running collecting BTC.

EDIT:- Actually, I just realized I'm only connected to (From my house-hold) two (Self-owned) latest-version bitcoind applications with the 0.00005430 bitcoin minimum, so, many I have, but, they didn't relay them to me. Oh well.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 11, 2014, 05:52:23 PM
#94
I'm glad that I was correct, because I thought that I was going insane and that I should read up on the Bitcoin Network, again.
That would be a pretty stupid fault in the network, using common sense one must realize that this is not the case.
90-95% users here now lack a fair amount of knowledge, I don't even wanna begin imagining how they see the complex stuff..
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
February 11, 2014, 05:47:19 PM
#93
What if these pennies end up landing in people's paper wallets?
I read that multiple deposits to paper wallets could render them unusable.
I hope I am wrong.
That is pure bullshit. Why would a paper wallet become unusable because of a dust transaction that will never be confirmed? Makes no sense to me.
Too many people here talk before acquiring enough knowledge, sadly.
Correct, a paper wallet can not become unusable because of a dust transaction when even if it would get confirmed.
I'm glad that I was correct, because I thought that I was going insane and that I should read up on the Bitcoin Network, again.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
February 11, 2014, 05:36:36 PM
#92
What if these pennies end up landing in people's paper wallets?
I read that multiple deposits to paper wallets could render them unusable.
I hope I am wrong.
That is pure bullshit. Why would a paper wallet become unusable because of a dust transaction that will never be confirmed? Makes no sense to me.
Too many people here talk before acquiring enough knowledge, sadly.
Correct, a paper wallet can not become unusable because of a dust transaction when even if it would get confirmed.
hero member
Activity: 968
Merit: 515
February 11, 2014, 05:23:26 PM
#91
Thanks for you replay DeathAndTaxes.

I also thought also about b). If you know that Blockchain.info relays spam, why relay the tx to all nodes yourself.

So the Reference Implementation doesn't not relay non-standard tx but doesn't ignore them either if they belong to your own wallet.
Quote
and will not show up in your wallet until they are included in a block.
This is only true if no one relays the tx to you.

I am wondering how many nodes have these txs in their mempool. I really need to set up a node.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 04:57:16 PM
#90
Why do these transactions even get relayed?
https://blockchain.info/de/tx/5fb080b8ba88696a97c44f6ba9bd26185a884fbdcd7a15c427e889915483e312

Quote
Payments (transaction outputs) of 0.543 times the minimum relay fee (0.00005430 BTC) are now considered 'non-standard', because storing them costs the network more than they are worth and spending them will usually cost their owner more in transaction fees than they are worth.
Quote
Non-standard transactions are not relayed across the network, are not included in blocks by most miners, and will not show up in your wallet until they are included in a block.

BTW: Is a transaction that doesn't not match the fee requirement also considered as a non standard tx?

EDIT: Seems like the the sender is directly connected to Blockchain.info
https://blockchain.info/de/ip-address/83.223.162.123
But this doesn't not explain why people receive them in their wallets.

There is no hard protocol rule which handles relaying.  A node can choose to relay whatever it wants.  While it is true the reference client won't relay these transactions I see two possibilities:
a) the "attacker" is directly connected to the receivers who see the spam.  The attacker can relay whatever it wants and while the QT client won't relay spam it will retain a local copy once it knows about it.

and/or

b) blockchain.info is relaying non-standard transactions and thus in this case making things worse.  Blockchain.info is connected to a lot of nodes so if it chooses to relay spam a lot of end users will end up seeing it.

It is also possible some other clients may relay tx below the 5430 sat threshold, and users running older versions of the bitcoin client will also continue to relay these types of transactions, but while they may expand the scope alone I doubt they alone have enough "coverage" without a or b above.

The best way to find out would be for someone who received the spam tx to record where they received the tx message from.  Not the sending bitcoin address but which peer sent the the tx message to their node.  Alas sadly I wasn't spammed so I can't help.

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
February 11, 2014, 04:48:16 PM
#89
Dusting is just creating a lot of very small transactions.   It wastes space in the block chain with these dust transactions that still take up room.   I'm not clear on all the applications of it.   There are some theories on how it could be used to help track a wallet back to an IP.

Wrong theories aren't worth much.  Transactions aren't sent to a particular address, there is nothing to trace.

Quote
Another use might be to try to build a list of valid address.   In theory one could generate private keys and see if they match any of the list of known wallets.   If you get a hit you have a valid private key.   That approach is unlikely to work, but it doesn't stop someone from trying.

Um there is thing called the blockchain which already contains every valid address that has received bitcoins.  For an "attacker" to send you a satoshi they would already by definition need to know your address and know it is valid.   

Bitcoin private keys can't be brute forced.  There isn't enough energy in our solar system.   If they could then someone sending you a satoshi is the least of your worries. 
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