[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet - page 69.

fonsie

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Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 12:45:00 PM

For the average user would you say using Android would be safer than Windows for this procedure?

My personal take on this would be

Offline Linux > Online Linux > Latest Android > Windows

Although I have a feeling that an Android 5.1 NOT rooted might even be safer than an Online Linux PC, the other apps not being able to access the other apps it's storage space and all this, BUT I'm no security expert... Would even like an answer to this very question.

cypherdoc

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So Mycelium has indeed jumped the gun on Trezor firmware update. We're still on 1.3.1.

cypherdoc

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 12:41:37 PM

Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 12:17:43 PM

Perhaps you mis-read my post? I don't want Android to create the seed, I just want an app that will send the signal to the Trezor for the Trezor to make one.

I did misinterpret what you meant by "initialize seeds". But "restoring seeds" definitely satisfies the concerns I raised, I would not promote the restoring of seeds with any online device.

You don't have a choice for restore. You either use the keyboard on your PC or your phone.

BitcoinIsLiberty

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 12:41:37 PM

Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 12:17:43 PM

Perhaps you mis-read my post? I don't want Android to create the seed, I just want an app that will send the signal to the Trezor for the Trezor to make one.

I did misinterpret what you meant by "initialize seeds". But "restoring seeds" definitely satisfies the concerns I raised, I would not promote the restoring of seeds with any online device.

Ah, I was worried I was confused about how it works. At least the restoring seed would work like mytrezor.com where the order of words is only known to the Trezor. For the average user would you say using Android would be safer than Windows for this procedure?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 12:17:43 PM

Perhaps you mis-read my post? I don't want Android to create the seed, I just want an app that will send the signal to the Trezor for the Trezor to make one.

I did misinterpret what you meant by "initialize seeds". But "restoring seeds" definitely satisfies the concerns I raised, I would not promote the restoring of seeds with any online device.

BitcoinIsLiberty

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 12:09:05 PM

Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 11:35:43 AM

I thought the whole point of Trezor was to enable secure bitcoin operations on an insecure environment?

Trezor internals are considered secure. Seed is ultimately the most sensitive wallet information. So, the seed should only be created with the Trezor internally, that's a part of their security model. Creating the seed on an online OS with very little built in security compromises that model.

Android had a security flaw with it's random number generator a few months back, Bitcoin Wallet for Android users basically discovered the issue, as it was being used to systematically target Bitcoin Wallet Android to steal the funds. Seed creation will make use of the RNG. It's patched, but how confident do you feel?

Thanks for the reply but aren't pretty much all Trezors set up with mytrezor.com? Since Trezor uses deterministic seeds from a random pool it creates and combines with the host computer I'm failing to see why setting up Trezor on an Android is a bad idea? People are setting up their Trezors offline?

Perhaps you mis-read my post? I don't want Android to create the seed, I just want an app that will send the signal to the Trezor for the Trezor to make one.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 11:35:43 AM

I thought the whole point of Trezor was to enable secure bitcoin operations on an insecure environment?

Trezor internals are considered secure. Seed is ultimately the most sensitive wallet information. So, the seed should only be created with the Trezor internally, that's a part of their security model. Creating the seed on an online OS with very little built in security compromises that model.

Android had a security flaw with it's random number generator a few months back, Bitcoin Wallet for Android users basically discovered the issue, as it was being used to systematically target Bitcoin Wallet Android to steal the funds. Seed creation will make use of the RNG. It's patched, but how confident do you feel?

BitcoinIsLiberty

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 11:26:35 AM

Quote from: fonsie on April 06, 2015, 11:11:19 AM

What you want is available with trezor python-tools https://github.com/trezor/python-trezor

There you go. Learn how to use those linked tools.

Android... it's not just Android, but the devices it typically runs on, too. But even on it's own, Android has a poor record when it comes to security (specifically cryptography, which Bitcoin relies on)

I don't know if buying a computer and compiling software on another system is useful for Android users.

Trezor was built so it doesn't depend on the host's computer security. All the secure elements remain on the Trezor. Even if the Android was a spy device how would the "Trezor Tools" create a bad seed or PIN?

I thought the whole point of Trezor was to enable secure bitcoin operations on an insecure environment?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: fonsie on April 06, 2015, 11:11:19 AM

What you want is available with trezor python-tools https://github.com/trezor/python-trezor

There you go. Learn how to use those linked tools.

Android... it's not just Android, but the devices it typically runs on, too. But even on it's own, Android has a poor record when it comes to security (specifically cryptography, which Bitcoin relies on)

fonsie

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Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 11:05:35 AM

Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 10:59:55 AM

Android, no. That's a terrible idea.

What's wrong with Android? Don't you think it would be useful for everyone who doesn't have a computer but has a phone?

Buying a Trezor, but not capable of buying a PC?

What you want is available with trezor python-tools https://github.com/trezor/python-trezor

BitcoinIsLiberty

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on April 06, 2015, 10:59:55 AM

Android, no. That's a terrible idea.

What's wrong with Android? Don't you think it would be useful for everyone who doesn't have a computer but has a phone?

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: BitcoinIsLiberty on April 06, 2015, 10:51:23 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/31mvmx/trezor_needs_a_new_simple_android_app_a_tools_app

I really think it would be useful if SatoshiLabs made a tiny app for Android that did some of the basic Trezor commands. It wouldn't even need to offer any wallet or address functionality. Some type of "Trezor Tools" that: initializes new seeds, restores seeds, sets pin, sets Trezor label, and updates firmware. This leaves all wallet operations and support to the wallet software and ensures that users use official software for the more critical operations.

This would enable people to fully use the Trezor without a PC and only Android is needed. It could even pave way for an "Android Edition" Trezor with a OTG cable instead that has the ends for the phone and Trezor! Grin

Tools, yes. Android, no. That's a terrible idea. The Wallet32 app does at least some of the functionality you're talking about, but I wouldn't recommend using that for anything to do with the wallet seed.

I suspect there probably is something like that on the Trezor github, but it's probably command line based.

BitcoinIsLiberty

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http://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/31mvmx/trezor_needs_a_new_simple_android_app_a_tools_app

I really think it would be useful if SatoshiLabs made a tiny app for Android that did some of the basic Trezor commands. It wouldn't even need to offer any wallet or address functionality. Some type of "Trezor Tools" that: initializes new seeds, restores seeds, sets pin, sets Trezor label, and updates firmware. This leaves all wallet operations and support to the wallet software and ensures that users use official software for the more critical operations.

This would enable people to fully use the Trezor without a PC and only Android is needed. It could even pave way for an "Android Edition" Trezor with a OTG cable instead that has the ends for the phone and Trezor! Grin

cypherdoc

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Quote from: fonsie on April 05, 2015, 10:06:06 AM

Quote from: LOBSTER on April 05, 2015, 08:59:53 AM

Has anyone ever tried to use Trezor with the MyCelium Android application? I'm going to get my new device soon and want to combine both.

I did just yesterday for the first time, bought a USB OTG cable plugged it into my Nexus 6 and it just worked. Did not make a payment yet however...

it works great. made a pmt to Telebit, just like in his video.

still confused about this green notice in Mycelium upon connection: "A new trezor firmware is available" that is NOT showing up when connecting to mytrezor.com

fonsie

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Quote from: LOBSTER on April 05, 2015, 08:59:53 AM

Has anyone ever tried to use Trezor with the MyCelium Android application? I'm going to get my new device soon and want to combine both.

I did just yesterday for the first time, bought a USB OTG cable plugged it into my Nexus 6 and it just worked. Did not make a payment yet however...

windpath

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Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on April 05, 2015, 06:23:17 AM

Sorry if this answered already. How many outputs can be signed with Trezor? I think there is no problem with signing 2+ UTXOs.(?)

Not sure if there is a limit. I have certainly signed tx's with many outputs...

LOBSTER

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Has anyone ever tried to use Trezor with the MyCelium Android application? I'm going to get my new device soon and want to combine both.

fonsie

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Quote from: cypherdoc on April 04, 2015, 10:32:45 PM

it would be nice if Mycelium allowed use of a watching only Trezor wallet.

You can import the xpub key into Mycelium.

Muhammed Zakir

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I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Sorry if this answered already. How many outputs can be signed with Trezor? I think there is no problem with signing 2+ UTXOs.(?)

arorts

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Mytrezor.com shows a blank page. Yes, it had worked before in the same exact browser.

Electrum wallet with trezor plugin shows "exception: Timed out while waiting for the magic character"

Great. Now I'm stuck without being able to use my BTC!

Please help!

Topic: [ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet - page 69. (Read 966173 times)