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Topic: Estimate of ASIC pre-orders: 13 to 15 PH/s (diff 1.8B to 2.1B) by end of 2013 - page 9. (Read 30736 times)

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Avalon expect to sale second generation chips (55nm) late October 2013 for immediate shipping.
http://thegenesisblock.com/avalon-refunds-22000-btc-2-9m-to-asic-miner-customers/

So any ideas on size of their batch?

We don't have a lot of facts to go on for Avalon v2 but:
a) We know it is 55nm compared to 110nm.  Die efficiency should be 4x that of v1 Avalon.
b) It is "backwards compatible" which I interpret to be same package/pinout.  
c) Avalon says late Oct which is code word for Dec and given their delays in shipping, "customs issues" I probably will put them as complete miners hashing in January 2014 or later.
d) Avalon says they won't be doing presales.  That means they accept the full risk of the NRE + batch run costs (as fab will want that up front).  I think this will act as a limit on # of wafers ordered.

Guestimate:
Avalon current design is a single hashing engine (1 hash per clock) running at up to 330 Mhz for 330 MH/s.  The current chip is on a 110nm process and has a die size of 16.12 mm^2 which means a die efficiency of 20.5 MH/s per mm^2.  A perfect die shrink would make that ~80 MH/s per mm^2.  For comparison BFL is ~70 MH/s per mm^2 and Bitfury is 138 MH/s per mm^2 in efficiency.  To give Avalon some margin lets say they improve die efficiency to 100 MH/s per mm^2 (improved clock speed, tweaked hashing engine).   Now Avalon likely isn't going to keep a single hashing engine design as the die would be insanely small (~4mm^2 as 55nm).  So it seems plausible they will take the v1 design shrink it and use the additional space to put more hashing engines running in parallel, similar to how Intel can make a 6 core chip today which has the same die size as a 130nm chip from the past.  Exactly how many parallel hashing engines Avalon uses doesn't really matter because it doesn't change the die efficiency (MH/s per mm^2).  A 6 HE chip is going to have 6x the throughput but take up 6x the die space.  There is some overhead for controller logic and I/O but it is minimal.  Bitcoin mining is an "embaressingly parallel problem".  My hypothesis is that since time is short, Avalon isn't looking for a redesign from scratch but rather they will take the v1 hashing engine (possibly with some minor tweaks/improvements and higher clock speed), shrink it to 55nm and then use as many in parallel which will keep the die size small enough to fit their existing package.  My guess is that would be 4 to 6 making the nominal output per chip 2GH/s to 3 GH/s.

A 300mm wafer has an area of 70,685 mm^2, lets assume 80 MH/s per mm^2 with a 10% drop due to wasted space (squares inside a circle).  That comes out to ~6.5 TH/s per wafer.  There are more accurate methods of calculating number of full dies but it requires knowing the exact dimensions of the chip but 90% effective is a good enough guesstimate.  If they get 95% yield that would be ~6TH/s usable chips per wafer.  Standard batch is 50 wafers so we are looking at 300 TH/s per batch.   Now they can order as large of a run as they want but given they have to front this cost/risk and with uncertainty on demand/pricing I could see them going with 2 batches (100 wafers) or 600 TH/s.  Avalon should have the resources to do that ($1M @ $10K nominal per wafer plus NRE).  While they could prepay for more that would be taking a big risk (no pre-orders to dump the risk on the customer).  They can always purchase more wafers at a later start is their is enough demand for follow on months.

So 600 TH/s in January for Avalon 55nm?  What does anyone else think?



hero member
Activity: 743
Merit: 500
Avalon expect to sale second generation chips (55nm) late October 2013 for immediate shipping.
http://thegenesisblock.com/avalon-refunds-22000-btc-2-9m-to-asic-miner-customers/
legendary
Activity: 1112
Merit: 1000
Order numbers upon placing one for a rig are presently around 1300. Not sure if they bundle all products together in order numbers.

It's the same order system they used for their Batch #1 and Batch #2 Avalon clones and the orders seem to be consecutive. They probably include BTC orders that timed out by late or no payment.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
Some more specs of the new chip by Bitmine.ch

https://bitmine.ch/?p=882

Quote
Power usage of 0.35 W/GH in low power, 0.6 W/GH in nominal and 1 W/GH in Turbo mode

https://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863

Order numbers upon placing one for a rig are presently around 1300. Not sure if they bundle all products together in order numbers.

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Labcoin's upped their 2013 max to 200-300TH/s based on their 65nm chip.   the 50th should be by the end of october.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
D&T has done a good guestimate on the hash rate numbers by the end of the year.

My other thread I totally underestimated the hashrate at the end of the year in my poll.

5 PH/s to 9 PH/s by year end sounds definitely feasible. I'd guess on the higher end (closer to 9).

Good job D&T
donator
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1007
Poor impulse control.
This is a huge job, d&T - thanks for taking it on.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000
I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...
Those are citations for the end of the OP.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
what those numbers in brackets mean next to hash numbers? in op

thank you
full member
Activity: 557
Merit: 101
Thanks for compiling this!
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
so what is worst case ?

1000 mio diff at the beginning of 2014 ?

level at about 1400 mio in march ?

if you run 500 GH/s from jan - dez 2014 with this diff you would would mine 65 btc

hm... Roll Eyes  
I had originally thought 1 billion difficulty by ~15 Nov, but with Avalon's problem causing a domino effect of the start-ups, I'm beginning to think we might not hit it by the end of the year.  The next 45 days will tell the story, once KNC starts shipping I think we'll have a clearer picture.  They seem to have the largest preorder batch atm.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 2106
so what is worst case ?

1000 mio diff at the beginning of 2014 ?

level at about 1400 mio in march ?

if you run 500 GH/s from jan - dez 2014 with this diff you would would mine 65 btc

hm... Roll Eyes  
legendary
Activity: 1112
Merit: 1000
Some more specs of the new chip by Bitmine.ch

https://bitmine.ch/?p=882

Quote
Power usage of 0.35 W/GH in low power, 0.6 W/GH in nominal and 1 W/GH in Turbo mode

https://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
Ok, I had heard some talk that it was a combined pool of various, numerous people who had bought those chips

Its not a single person pool, I have access and I am not bitfury.

Anyway, interesting read D&T.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
The thread title says 8 TH/s by end of 2013

I believe you mean 8 PH/s.

Yes.  Thanks & fixed.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1018
Buzz App - Spin wheel, farm rewards
Thanks for the work on making this analysis.

It's sort of scary but good to know.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis

Um, are you forgetting someone? [Labcoin]
For the test run we opted for QFP packaging, 44 pin, no exposed heat pad, here is a small preview :

They should have 3-4TH in a few weeks, and will be ordering a 50TH run of chips soon, which should be delivered late September, and online in Oct.

Both added.  Thanks.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
I think you may be underestimating KnC as they pan to mine on their own devices and we have no idea how much that will add.

True however we need to start somewhere.  Who knows what the future hashrate will be BUT if we know 6 PH/s has been pre-ordered then we know it will at least rise by that much.  IF we believe it is realistic that will be deployed by end of Dec then that lets of start to see growth of the network.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Um, are you forgetting someone?
For the test run we opted for QFP packaging, 44 pin, no exposed heat pad, here is a small preview :



They should have 3-4TH in a few weeks, and will be ordering a 50TH run of chips soon, which should be delivered late September, and online in Oct.
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