Ethics of boxing and gambling - page 2.

Mahanton

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Quote from: Silberman on August 07, 2021, 12:04:51 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

You need to understand that most of those that take boxing and try to pursue a professional career there are very poor so they do not really have a lot of options and boxing is their ticket out of that poverty, obviously not everyone is like that but the majority are, at least at my country, so it is obvious they made that decision knowing very well the consequences this could entail and they still decided to become boxers and as such their decision must be respected.

Cant consider that those are consequences but rather would be the risk that they are taking when they do enter the boxing career but well we do know that not every sport wouldnt have any risk
when it comes to physical matters.Its not really that necessary that those people who had been joining is just poor but there are still who do pursue out into this career due to interest
or definitely his wish to join up this sport no matter on what financial status that they do have in life but i do agree that i do find some countries which its people is been
really seeing this boxing sport is they key for them to at least improve their lives if they do make well.

Silberman

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Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

You need to understand that most of those that take boxing and try to pursue a professional career there are very poor so they do not really have a lot of options and boxing is their ticket out of that poverty, obviously not everyone is like that but the majority are, at least at my country, so it is obvious they made that decision knowing very well the consequences this could entail and they still decided to become boxers and as such their decision must be respected.

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

It's interesting that you mention head trauma because American football has built quite a reputation for causing the same kind of damage and it could potentially be much worse (imagine one of those quarterbacks charging at you full pelt and you running straight towards them). I think we should be researching and teaching all athletes about the potential brain damaging effects of sports at an early age - not to scare them off, but to make sure that they are fully aware that it may cause difficulties elsewhere later in life. Either that or you need to see if adding much greater padding protection to absorb the hits will be able to mitigate the damage far enough.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on August 06, 2021, 04:42:36 PM

It’s a crazy world out there. Folks don’t care if you punch the opponent to death. As long as they get entertained and win some cash while at it. I mean the thrill people get both from watching and betting on this type of competition is almost as old as humans. The Roman gladiators would almost always fight to the death. Boxing, MMA, and other forms combat sports can be likened to it.

If folks care about them, we will see many demonstrations in many places about prohibiting that sports because that is related to human lives. People will not stop demonstrating until combat sports finally prohibit and delete from the sports.

But we do not see that because people enjoy seeing each player fight until one of them admits their weakness. But MMA and other forms of combat sports associations use a warning that the show is not for underage and they are prohibited from using it in their lives.

rodskee

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Quote from: Alisha-k on August 07, 2021, 01:44:47 AM

Quote from: Kittygalore on July 26, 2021, 07:54:03 AM

I do think that in ethically speaking if both fighters are consenting with the fight, it should proceed. In my opinion, fighting sports are designed to be bloody as much as possible and it's in the human race's DNA to have or enjoy bloodsport since most of our time in this planet has been wars and murders. Also, if we were to remove this sports due to "ethical" reasons, the fighters would lose their purpose since that's all they knew all their life.

You have a strong point here. This fighters trained for years to get to this point in their Carrier and they all endured years of regorous trainings just to represent In the ring. We just have to accept them the way they are they were not forced into it so as such all we owe them is our little supporting of betting and watching so they too can find the events

every people has their own attitude and character , and so as boxer .. we cannot put them into things that we will only like while they are not.
and yeah they have spend almost all their life just to reach what they are now so let us keep them what they wanted to be.
as long as they are not stepping others in real life and only their wordings are attacking others then that is fine because they are human and they have their own reason why they are such a dumb sometimes.
but boxers are gifted remember that , not all people has the ability to box for straight 12 rounds and still standing.

Alisha-k

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Quote from: Kittygalore on July 26, 2021, 07:54:03 AM

I do think that in ethically speaking if both fighters are consenting with the fight, it should proceed. In my opinion, fighting sports are designed to be bloody as much as possible and it's in the human race's DNA to have or enjoy bloodsport since most of our time in this planet has been wars and murders. Also, if we were to remove this sports due to "ethical" reasons, the fighters would lose their purpose since that's all they knew all their life.

You have a strong point here. This fighters trained for years to get to this point in their Carrier and they all endured years of regorous trainings just to represent In the ring. We just have to accept them the way they are they were not forced into it so as such all we owe them is our little supporting of betting and watching so they too can find the events

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We've been having chariot races, wrestling, gladiator fights, and basically any other fighting competitions for over a millennium. Why then, would a relatively 'safe' and controlled sport be something morally wrong? Boxing isn't a competition aimed to kill one opponent in order to score a victory, but rather to showcase how you handle a bout inside a ring using your fists. The goal is to score enough points throughout the match to win, and not to leave your opponent beaten as a pulp. While it is true that it happens, but still, for the most part, scores decide who wins the match.

Every sport has risks laid bare on the players, not just boxing. And with your logic, shouldn't every physical sport be morally wrong and therefore outlawed?

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Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

Quote from: iTradeChips on August 02, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

No one has ever gave his opinion about boxing more elegant than Jonathan Lyons in answering the question "Should boxing be legal?":

"Boxing is brutal. There is no fan of the pugilist arts that will say otherwise. Boxing has come a long way from Marquis de Queensbury and bare knuckled brawling to today's spectacle.

It should be pointed out that the point of boxing, is not to pummel one's opponent to a bloody pulp, but to score points by means of a combination of hits to the upper body.

As has been noted in other answers, at the amateur level, a considerable amount of padding has been added to reduce injury. The thumbless glove alone was a great improvement. I think it would be wise to extend these innovations in the sport to the professional level. However, I do not believe that the sport should be banned altogether.

The boxers themselves in my opinion, endure training so hard that it makes them strong and determined to beat other fighters and get the fame, glory, and fortune that they deserve. No wonder, deserving boxers, they get filthy rich.

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

If it was me to choose I would never exchange health (especially mental health) for fame or money. Doesn't matter how much money you have, without mental health you are nothing as it won't be possible to enjoy the fortune you have made along the years in a pleasant way. So it's a pointless decision to risk health aiming to sit at a throne made of dust.
But there are some people that are so aggressive that they don't think like this and prefer to damage their health just to feel the relief of overflowing their angry inside an arena, so they live a calm routine outside the ring. Maybe if it wasn't the sport the lives of those fighters would be much more irritable and violent against people who have nothing to do with them.

Dread Pirate Roberts

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

That's why there is a referee who officiates the match. and also the rules in boxing seems to be made to avoid fatal accidents like that. like not allowed to hit back of the head . You cannot hit below the belt https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Rules_of_Boxing it is categorized as a martial art sports . so does

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported?

Man, any professional sport is harmful for people who are involved in. Without any exceptions. Even such sport as biking is traumatic. But this is not the reason to forbid it. And while it still allowed, why we can't bet on it? I think everything is fair.

Boxers choose their life and the moment to get out of it. Box isn't some kind of gladiator fights where you at high risk of losing your life or health. I don't see any problem.

Rruchi man

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It’s a crazy world out there. Folks don’t care if you punch the opponent to death. As long as they get entertained and win some cash while at it. I mean the thrill people get both from watching and betting on this type of competition is almost as old as humans. The Roman gladiators would almost always fight to the death. Boxing, MMA, and other forms combat sports can be likened to it.

Oceat

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Quote from: carlfebz2 on August 04, 2021, 06:46:05 PM

Quote from: Oasisman on August 04, 2021, 06:41:10 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

Quote from: iTradeChips on August 02, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

~snip~

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

Professional boxers are very prone to long term brain damages, and when that happens there would be no amount of money and fame that could fix it. So I guess that really doesn't matter anyway as long as they're earning tons of money while they're still in their prime.
The most important thing for a famous boxer to do is to have a sustainable income after the retirement so they could at least support a treatment to a possible long term health effects in boxing.
I've seen a former pro boxer who eventually became a wife beater after his retirement. It was later found out that he's suffering from a mental abnormalities.

Lets put up some links about mental issues or abnormalities.

https://www.good.is/sports/boxing-star-depression
https://www.ringtv.com/620707-ryan-garcia-battling-mental-health-issues-withdraws-from-javier-fortuna-bout/

This is true and its not really bad to have those motives on earning as much as they can when they are still able to do so.

Well, obviously they already know the risk about it and still they continue, it's just because it's all about the money, the prize when you win and the fame that is waiting for you once your name is being shout in the world. There's always a way to seek medical care about of these former/retired boxers to fox their illnesses.

And it's not just boxing as a sports having this kind of risk you we shouldn't look only on this case because there are other sports that was more risky than boxing.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Oasisman on August 04, 2021, 06:41:10 PM

Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

Quote from: iTradeChips on August 02, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

~snip~

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

Professional boxers are very prone to long term brain damages, and when that happens there would be no amount of money and fame that could fix it. So I guess that really doesn't matter anyway as long as they're earning tons of money while they're still in their prime.
The most important thing for a famous boxer to do is to have a sustainable income after the retirement so they could at least support a treatment to a possible long term health effects in boxing.
I've seen a former pro boxer who eventually became a wife beater after his retirement. It was later found out that he's suffering from a mental abnormalities.

Lets put up some links about mental issues or abnormalities.

https://www.good.is/sports/boxing-star-depression
https://www.ringtv.com/620707-ryan-garcia-battling-mental-health-issues-withdraws-from-javier-fortuna-bout/

This is true and its not really bad to have those motives on earning as much as they can when they are still able to do so.

Oasisman

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Quote from: just_Alice on August 04, 2021, 06:07:10 PM

Quote from: iTradeChips on August 02, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

~snip~

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

Professional boxers are very prone to long term brain damages, and when that happens there would be no amount of money and fame that could fix it. So I guess that really doesn't matter anyway as long as they're earning tons of money while they're still in their prime.
The most important thing for a famous boxer to do is to have a sustainable income after the retirement so they could at least support a treatment to a possible long term health effects in boxing.
I've seen a former pro boxer who eventually became a wife beater after his retirement. It was later found out that he's suffering from a mental abnormalities.

just_Alice

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Quote from: iTradeChips on August 02, 2021, 04:38:08 PM

No one has ever gave his opinion about boxing more elegant than Jonathan Lyons in answering the question "Should boxing be legal?":

"Boxing is brutal. There is no fan of the pugilist arts that will say otherwise. Boxing has come a long way from Marquis de Queensbury and bare knuckled brawling to today's spectacle.

It should be pointed out that the point of boxing, is not to pummel one's opponent to a bloody pulp, but to score points by means of a combination of hits to the upper body.

As has been noted in other answers, at the amateur level, a considerable amount of padding has been added to reduce injury. The thumbless glove alone was a great improvement. I think it would be wise to extend these innovations in the sport to the professional level. However, I do not believe that the sport should be banned altogether.

The boxers themselves in my opinion, endure training so hard that it makes them strong and determined to beat other fighters and get the fame, glory, and fortune that they deserve. No wonder, deserving boxers, they get filthy rich.

I guess the general point is right, boxing is rather the game of endurance than a pummelling and there are certain rules and security measures. Nevertheless, this doesn’t deny the fact that boxing is among the most traumatic kinds of sports (if not the most) and leads to serious long-term injuries. Yes, boxers become rich stars, so one could say it all pays off, but if in the end, one has brain damage does fame really matter?

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Quote from: Silberman on August 04, 2021, 11:33:21 AM

Quote from: Saisher on August 01, 2021, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

It's legal because there are precautionary measures being taken to ensure the safety of the competitors, they are not fighting to the death, once an opponent is clearly seen hurt the fight will be stopped, and both competitors are made sure they are on their peak of health, so it's really a battle of speed and strength not savagery.

Not only that there are many measures that are being taken to protect the fighters, even if the fighter wants to keep boxing the referee can stop the fight, their coaches can stop the fight and the doctor can stop the fight too, so despite how brutal the sport may seem to many people there are many precautions that are being taken in order to ensure that the fighters are in top shape and are healthy enough to engage in such a demanding sport.

Taken to the account those are really part of safety measures of both fighters while fighting inside the ring, though even that are present accident may happened and the risk for the lives of this two fighters are there.

It's been a long time sports and fighters together with their whole training camps they are aware of this risk before they accept the fight.

Good thing also that refs are more focus they can stop the fight once they've seen possible concerns with fighters conditions.

Silberman

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Quote from: Saisher on August 01, 2021, 04:43:54 AM

Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

It's legal because there are precautionary measures being taken to ensure the safety of the competitors, they are not fighting to the death, once an opponent is clearly seen hurt the fight will be stopped, and both competitors are made sure they are on their peak of health, so it's really a battle of speed and strength not savagery.

Not only that there are many measures that are being taken to protect the fighters, even if the fighter wants to keep boxing the referee can stop the fight, their coaches can stop the fight and the doctor can stop the fight too, so despite how brutal the sport may seem to many people there are many precautions that are being taken in order to ensure that the fighters are in top shape and are healthy enough to engage in such a demanding sport.

goinmerry

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Quote from: aioc on August 02, 2021, 05:20:51 PM

Contact sports is now an art that represents strength, speed and toughness that represents everything that we want to be and admire, science and arts made it legal now.

And now turned into businesses.

In every boxing fight, advertisements are flowing and subject to tax. The government is also taking a benefits from it. That's why these sports have lots of legal terms if we go deep right from contract signing.

Being turned into gambling, we should not just talk about the negative side of this such as boxers are risking their life or what. That's why there are preparations and body conditioning that takes up to several months before the actual fight to ensure that both boxers are fit to match.

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Quote from: aioc on August 02, 2021, 05:20:51 PM

Back in the olden days it was savagery back then because there is too much blood pour in the ring and they are fighting to the death, but now we are in a modern era, it's now based on science and arts, boxing and other contact sports now are more regulated, before you get into the ring you have to fit and in the best of health and undergone a lot of physical examination, and we have a referee to stop the fight anytime and check for any hard blows and conditions of both fighters and of course we have doctors to oversee the general condition of both fighters.

Those were the gladiator days.

And their strength is measured until how long they can endure death and the one who die first is the weaker ones. Well, we're no longer living in that era and what you've said about its differences between there and now istrue.

There's a long examination that one should pass before stepping on the ring.

aioc

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Back in the olden days it was savagery back then because there is too much blood pour in the ring and they are fighting to the death, but now we are in a modern era, it's now based on science and arts, boxing and other contact sports now are more regulated, before you get into the ring you have to fit and in the best of health and undergone a lot of physical examination, and we have a referee to stop the fight anytime and check for any hard blows and conditions of both fighters and of course we have doctors to oversee the general condition of both fighters.

Contact sports is now an art that represents strength, speed and toughness that represents everything that we want to be and admire, science and arts made it legal now.

Topic: Ethics of boxing and gambling - page 2. (Read 1451 times)