Ethics of boxing and gambling - page 3.

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Quote from: bitterguy28 on August 02, 2021, 01:39:00 AM

Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Even in our early days there are even worst like Gladiator fighting and it has been recorded that there will no exception that once you lose then you must die.

I think the ethics in hurting each other in particular sports is required and this even the moment of the game , imagine a boxing without hurting? like Wrestling in which now comes to be scripted that's why the popularity of WWE goes lowered now.

That’s part of the game and we are playing like that since then, if you’re a boxer you already know that gamblers are betting with you and that can actually boost your confidence because they’ll support you. The ethics here is more about the passion, you may feel the pain but you are fighting for it and that’s your biggest reason why you keep on fighting, gambling is just a part of that game.

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No one has ever gave his opinion about boxing more elegant than Jonathan Lyons in answering the question "Should boxing be legal?":

"Boxing is brutal. There is no fan of the pugilist arts that will say otherwise. Boxing has come a long way from Marquis de Queensbury and bare knuckled brawling to today's spectacle.

It should be pointed out that the point of boxing, is not to pummel one's opponent to a bloody pulp, but to score points by means of a combination of hits to the upper body.

As has been noted in other answers, at the amateur level, a considerable amount of padding has been added to reduce injury. The thumbless glove alone was a great improvement. I think it would be wise to extend these innovations in the sport to the professional level. However, I do not believe that the sport should be banned altogether.

Boxing as a sport embodies an amazing demonstration of finesse under pressure. Stars of the sport not only include brutal sluggers but also graceful strategists like Sugar Ray Leonard, and Muhammad Ali. Yes, these men could drop an opponent to the mat in less than 15 rounds, but they really did float like butterflies and sting like bees.

Boxers do no more or less than we ask of other atheletes, they push their bodies to perform in an extreme contest. The best fights are not judged by KO or TKO, but by the referee and judges and then argued over for decades. The man (though some women have entered the sport) faces the certainty of being hit by an opponent of his own weight and class. There is nowhere to run or escape. The ring is bare. It is the purest contest of endurance.

Some may come for the pruient thrill of blood sport, but most true fans are attracted by the nobility of spirit displayed by the young men who enter the ring to test their courage and practiced stoicism on a razor's edge between the civility of the opening handshake and the onslaught of the opponents fist."

The boxers themselves in my opinion, endure training so hard that it makes them strong and determined to beat other fighters and get the fame, glory, and fortune that they deserve. No wonder, deserving boxers, they get filthy rich.

Source: https://www.quora.com/Should-boxing-remain-legal

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Quote from: finaleshot2016 on August 02, 2021, 05:37:39 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on August 02, 2021, 04:56:24 AM

And most of those figters/boxers are after to this opportunities, they are willing to take the risk even to the point of losing their lives or to forever take the damages in exchange of big money that awaits them once they've established their names inside this profession.

No doubt even to those beginners, they are all hoping that one day big event will take place and they can change the life of their love ones

using this venue if luck permits them.

But that's life; I believe most athletes who compete in sports tournaments do so for the money and to benefit from their talent because it's the only way they can support their families. So I completely understand why some people participate in dangerous sports like slapping tournaments because they have such a strong desire to survive in this world. Most popular athletes who have achieved success today come from not-so-rich families; they work extremely hard and use this as motivation to compete in every tournament, even if their lives are at stake. Money rules the world, so in order to survive, they must engage in brutal activities.

The staggering difference between the bottom level and the top level is the biggest cause of concern, which is the reason why there could be some understanding of "it does not worth it". Sure if you are Floyd Mayweather and still fight at 50 years old and maybe one day you get a punch that does something to your brain so bad that you turn your life to a horrible situation, just because you wanted to fight one more time, however dude makes like 100 million, so it does look like it worths it, I would be literally willing to simply tied down and get punched for 15 rounds by Mayweather for that much money, even if something happens to me at least my family will be rich after I die.

But amateur boxers get like 100 bucks when they start, getting punched and bloodied up for 100 bucks is definitely not worth it at all and that difference is the reason why we lack more and more amazing fighters. You have to really love the sport to continue.

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Quote from: Wexnident on August 01, 2021, 09:41:23 PM

That's overpraising the boxers ngl. Even if they are fighters with a ton of experience, the same could be said for their opponents, fighting in the ring means risking injuries and mental stress, no matter how much experience, strength or whatnot you actually have. Pros are still humans, in the end, not to mention that we aren't exactly only talking about pros, but also newbie boxers and the like. Additionally, a fighter IS ready to be in the ring WHILE knowing the consequences. We're in the 21st-century man, no one can force someone to actually fight against their will. Circumstances may force them so, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't choose not to do so.

Quote from: Wexnident on August 01, 2021, 09:41:23 PM

That's overpraising the boxers ngl. Even if they are fighters with a ton of experience, the same could be said for their opponents, fighting in the ring means risking injuries and mental stress, no matter how much experience, strength or whatnot you actually have. Pros are still humans, in the end, not to mention that we aren't exactly only talking about pros, but also newbie boxers and the like. Additionally, a fighter IS ready to be in the ring WHILE knowing the consequences. We're in the 21st-century man, no one can force someone to actually fight against their will. Circumstances may force them so, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't choose not to do so.

Quote from: kotajikikox on August 01, 2021, 11:05:19 PM

yes and that is not how we must treat them , understanding the consequences is indeed but they are still concern about their physical health because their bread and butter are their body and anything happens to any part of it will surely affect their career or their future.

they are tough of course, they are fighter of course, they are fearless of course , but they are still human that in any form may feel what losing is all about.

Quote from: ene1980 on August 02, 2021, 07:28:47 AM

The fighters do understand the dynamics and he is well aware of the consequences but that does not mean that he will be speculating and gambling for him, it is not even possible to wage a bet on the match you are involved and if you are caught you will be suspended as far as i understand. Unexpected things do happen in the ring because it is a fight but for that there are referees.

Everything goes according to his wishes and talents. Should we blame the referee? trainer? that forced them to fight? isn't it not. They fight on the basis of abilities that are indeed hobbies in that field, whether or not injuries are no longer a concern, because basically a fighter who is already in the ring and shown on world television can't possibly fight under coercion.

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There have been several arguments I've encountered or seen that portrayed wresting as an act than an actual fight but, non have I seen for boxing. This goes the far length of proving boxing to be the real deal. The actual hitting, jaw breaking and knock out sport that we see on the arena either on TV or viewing in the stadium. I wonder at what point do the athletes decide that yeah, they are sure to be a professional boxer. It's way much unpleasen to me to even watch another person being hit until he or she bleeds out on the eyelids and mouth.

Apparently, it some ones passion, a highly paid one at that so, you really can't take it out of them. The best is what is being done, making it legal, a show out of it and taxing it as well. At least there are rules and both athletes and fans understands it.

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Due to the fact that people hit each other, boxing is taken as a violent sport. However, there are many more, much more dangerous and violent sports (rugby, judo etc). I think if we wanted boxing to be considered unethical, we would have to define many other sports as well, and that will never happen.

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"How it is considered legal" is a whole another question from betting. If it is legal to box and legal to gamble on that box then what we are doing is legal and there is nothing to care afterwards, I am not a doctor, I am not a trainer, I am not a boxer because those are the people that should be considering this as a risk and if they are not caring about it and they just completely ignore it then we should not consider this as an unethical problem.

Think about it there are thousands who work in this field, and every boxer needs to get checked out before every single fight, how come they are giving greenlight for fighters and then it is unethical for me to just gamble? I think it is totally fine. How fighting is allowed is a whole another topic of course.

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Quote from: maju69 on August 01, 2021, 10:05:54 AM

To be precise, Not necessarily a fighter is ready to be in the ring without knowing the consequences. I believe he is much more understanding than us who just speculate and gamble for him. What's more, they are fighters who already have a pretty good experience, we don't have to worry about unexpected things in the ring.

The fighters do understand the dynamics and he is well aware of the consequences but that does not mean that he will be speculating and gambling for him, it is not even possible to wage a bet on the match you are involved and if you are caught you will be suspended as far as i understand. Unexpected things do happen in the ring because it is a fight but for that there are referees.

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Quote from: AicecreaME on August 02, 2021, 06:18:33 AM

Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Compare to slapping tournament, boxing tournament is much more safer because they are being trained to be physically and mentally prepared for the upcoming match, unlike slapping tournament that people are just practicing to hit anything to make their slap stronger but never train themselves to survive the slap that is going to be made in every match, that's my opinion to that.

I don't understand why a slapping tournament was invented, this is not sports as you have to take the slap and it only depends if your body can take the hit, if not, then you will probably feel the pain that might affect, and this could also hurt your head. I don't know since I don't really find that sport interesting, boxing is popular in our country and I'm hoping that slapping tournaments will not start to be popular.

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Quote from: AicecreaME on August 02, 2021, 06:18:33 AM

Compare to slapping tournament, boxing tournament is much more safer because they are being trained to be physically and mentally prepared for the upcoming match, unlike slapping tournament that people are just practicing to hit anything to make their slap stronger but never train themselves to survive the slap that is going to be made in every match, that's my opinion to that.

And if I'm not mistaken, the slapping tournament was started from "fun" and because it was able to attract more viewers, it's now become an entertainment sport. At first, a simple face-off then the match will start. No category, no given tier, everything is settled just be agreement.

Obviously, a much less professional approach compare to boxing where everything is well prepared beforehand and there's a certain tier (weight class).

Quote from: Oasisman on August 01, 2021, 11:40:03 PM

... that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.

You nailed it, making money out of their own interest. It's like that they are being paid for something that they really like.

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Compare to slapping tournament, boxing tournament is much more safer because they are being trained to be physically and mentally prepared for the upcoming match, unlike slapping tournament that people are just practicing to hit anything to make their slap stronger but never train themselves to survive the slap that is going to be made in every match, that's my opinion to that.

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Quote from: peter0425 on August 02, 2021, 05:46:11 AM

Quote from: Fredomago on August 02, 2021, 04:56:24 AM

Quote from: Oasisman on August 01, 2021, 11:40:03 PM

The only good thing I can think of about these professional
boxers is that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.
While most regular people struggle to their day job even If it's against their passion just to put something in the table for their family.
But then again the risk of these contact sports are always high. It could either be a career ending injury or worse death. Well, If there's a huge amount of money in the line they're more than ready for it.
Also, lucky are those successful ones especially when they're offered with partnership from big business names.

And most of those figters/boxers are after to this opportunities, they are willing to take the risk even to the point of losing their lives or to forever take the damages in exchange of big money that awaits them once they've established their names inside this profession.

No doubt even to those beginners, they are all hoping that one day big event will take place and they can change the life of their love ones

using this venue if luck permits them.

There is no much to desire than gaining money at the same time popularity because their name will be listed in history and that is the main goal, making their name in popularity and their Income in which insignificantly high.

so Dead or alive they are risking everything for their dreams .

Gambling is risky, but there are only a few cases where a boxer was seriously ill because of boxing, if the organization will stop, I think it will cause a domino effect on other combat games which I don't think is possible, so boxing will stay and we have to understand that this is only for risk-takers and those who are capable enough to fight.

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Quote from: Fredomago on August 02, 2021, 04:56:24 AM

Quote from: Oasisman on August 01, 2021, 11:40:03 PM

The only good thing I can think of about these professional
boxers is that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.
While most regular people struggle to their day job even If it's against their passion just to put something in the table for their family.
But then again the risk of these contact sports are always high. It could either be a career ending injury or worse death. Well, If there's a huge amount of money in the line they're more than ready for it.
Also, lucky are those successful ones especially when they're offered with partnership from big business names.

And most of those figters/boxers are after to this opportunities, they are willing to take the risk even to the point of losing their lives or to forever take the damages in exchange of big money that awaits them once they've established their names inside this profession.

No doubt even to those beginners, they are all hoping that one day big event will take place and they can change the life of their love ones

using this venue if luck permits them.

There is no much to desire than gaining money at the same time popularity because their name will be listed in history and that is the main goal, making their name in popularity and their Income in which insignificantly high.

so Dead or alive they are risking everything for their dreams .

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Quote from: Fredomago on August 02, 2021, 04:56:24 AM

Quote from: Oasisman on August 01, 2021, 11:40:03 PM

The only good thing I can think of about these professional
boxers is that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.
While most regular people struggle to their day job even If it's against their passion just to put something in the table for their family.
But then again the risk of these contact sports are always high. It could either be a career ending injury or worse death. Well, If there's a huge amount of money in the line they're more than ready for it.
Also, lucky are those successful ones especially when they're offered with partnership from big business names.

And most of those figters/boxers are after to this opportunities, they are willing to take the risk even to the point of losing their lives or to forever take the damages in exchange of big money that awaits them once they've established their names inside this profession.

No doubt even to those beginners, they are all hoping that one day big event will take place and they can change the life of their love ones

using this venue if luck permits them.

But that's life; I believe most athletes who compete in sports tournaments do so for the money and to benefit from their talent because it's the only way they can support their families. So I completely understand why some people participate in dangerous sports like slapping tournaments because they have such a strong desire to survive in this world. Most popular athletes who have achieved success today come from not-so-rich families; they work extremely hard and use this as motivation to compete in every tournament, even if their lives are at stake. Money rules the world, so in order to survive, they must engage in brutal activities.

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Quote from: Oasisman on August 01, 2021, 11:40:03 PM

The only good thing I can think of about these professional
boxers is that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.
While most regular people struggle to their day job even If it's against their passion just to put something in the table for their family.
But then again the risk of these contact sports are always high. It could either be a career ending injury or worse death. Well, If there's a huge amount of money in the line they're more than ready for it.
Also, lucky are those successful ones especially when they're offered with partnership from big business names.

And most of those figters/boxers are after to this opportunities, they are willing to take the risk even to the point of losing their lives or to forever take the damages in exchange of big money that awaits them once they've established their names inside this profession.

No doubt even to those beginners, they are all hoping that one day big event will take place and they can change the life of their love ones

using this venue if luck permits them.

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

I know many people bet on boxing matches and I recently saw a post on an "slapping tournament". I was thinking that professional boxing is kind of questionable as a sport discipline and even more so as a gambling event. It is known that many boxers sustain long term effects of repeated micro-trauma and even some have been know to die in the ring. For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Even in our early days there are even worst like Gladiator fighting and it has been recorded that there will no exception that once you lose then you must die.

I think the ethics in hurting each other in particular sports is required and this even the moment of the game , imagine a boxing without hurting? like Wrestling in which now comes to be scripted that's why the popularity of WWE goes lowered now.

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Quote from: harizen on July 30, 2021, 06:10:25 AM

Quote from: Oceat on July 29, 2021, 06:46:48 PM

~snip~

Obviously, people participating in that sports already know the risks.

Money and fame are waiting for them that's why those risks are not really being considered since their focus is to maintain winning as possible. Not just within boxing but the possibility of becoming an ambassador or sports sponsor has a chance while on progress.

Others succeed, others failed, and that's the reality of this sport.

The only good thing I can think of about these professional
boxers is that they're lucky to be making tons of money out of their passion as a professional athlete.
While most regular people struggle to their day job even If it's against their passion just to put something in the table for their family.
But then again the risk of these contact sports are always high. It could either be a career ending injury or worse death. Well, If there's a huge amount of money in the line they're more than ready for it.
Also, lucky are those successful ones especially when they're offered with partnership from big business names.

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Quote from: Wexnident on August 01, 2021, 09:41:23 PM

Quote from: maju69 on August 01, 2021, 10:05:54 AM

To be precise, Not necessarily a fighter is ready to be in the ring without knowing the consequences. I believe he is much more understanding than us who just speculate and gamble for him. What's more, they are fighters who already have a pretty good experience, we don't have to worry about unexpected things in the ring.

That's overpraising the boxers ngl. Even if they are fighters with a ton of experience, the same could be said for their opponents, fighting in the ring means risking injuries and mental stress, no matter how much experience, strength or whatnot you actually have. Pros are still humans, in the end, not to mention that we aren't exactly only talking about pros, but also newbie boxers and the like. Additionally, a fighter IS ready to be in the ring WHILE knowing the consequences. We're in the 21st-century man, no one can force someone to actually fight against their will. Circumstances may force them so, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't choose not to do so.

yes and that is not how we must treat them , understanding the consequences is indeed but they are still concern about their physical health because their bread and butter are their body and anything happens to any part of it will surely affect their career or their future.

they are tough of course, they are fighter of course, they are fearless of course , but they are still human that in any form may feel what losing is all about.

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Quote from: paxmao on July 26, 2021, 06:06:18 AM

For all boxing fans and for others that may have a view on this, how is this being considered a fully legal activity being supported? And how is betting of people hitting each other being considered as legal and ethical in today´s world?

Knowing that these boxers are fit to be in the ring and prepared themselves for what can possibly happen are enough reason to be at ease as a fan that they're doing this for entertainment. Well boxers know (regardless if they win or not) that money is guaranteed, a main motivation to win the fight. Besides they're aware of the consequences of their action, getting seriously injured is one of it. Seeing this kind of sports are really entertaining but it depends on a person's stance regarding this matter. Boxing is existing for long years already and for me its not really brutal unlike MMA and other sports requiring to take down the opponent in order to win.

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Quote from: maju69 on August 01, 2021, 10:05:54 AM

To be precise, Not necessarily a fighter is ready to be in the ring without knowing the consequences. I believe he is much more understanding than us who just speculate and gamble for him. What's more, they are fighters who already have a pretty good experience, we don't have to worry about unexpected things in the ring.

That's overpraising the boxers ngl. Even if they are fighters with a ton of experience, the same could be said for their opponents, fighting in the ring means risking injuries and mental stress, no matter how much experience, strength or whatnot you actually have. Pros are still humans, in the end, not to mention that we aren't exactly only talking about pros, but also newbie boxers and the like. Additionally, a fighter IS ready to be in the ring WHILE knowing the consequences. We're in the 21st-century man, no one can force someone to actually fight against their will. Circumstances may force them so, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't choose not to do so.

Topic: Ethics of boxing and gambling - page 3. (Read 1444 times)