Eyes to the horizon: A bitcoin ASIC project will be announced in June - page 4.

Paladin69

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Quote from: superduh on June 30, 2013, 10:14:38 PM

andddd my eyes are bleeding.
this is one of the most off topic threads in a long time.
more info on this venture would be good. altough their projected price is a bit ridiculous
OP should be posting more relevant info more often

It's not off-topic. This is a "venture", as you say, attempting to exploit in the same manner.

Buy your own hardware from companies that only use testnet before shipping.

superduh

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andddd my eyes are bleeding.
this is one of the most off topic threads in a long time.
more info on this venture would be good. altough their projected price is a bit ridiculous
OP should be posting more relevant info more often

eve

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how to go after them? with expensive or cheap cheap miners? where to get those cheap cheap miners?

Paladin69

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Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 09:33:10 PM

Quote from: Paladin69 on June 30, 2013, 09:01:58 PM

Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 08:59:16 PM

They are the Factory or Supermarket to the world. Cheap things come from there. We need $10 for 1 gh/s or less.

Go with the cheapest of course, but don't support anyone who mines on anything but testnet. KNC has claimed they won't mine with what they develop.

Please think it through. To say otherwise means you don't understand how the growing hashrate and difficulty works against small miners. You will only be hurting yourself.

You will make less for yourself @ $17 GH if they are also developing hardware to mine for themselves than with someone @ $17.50 GH who only uses testnet and isn't mining with your hardware. End of story.

Do not support China.

If you are referring to Avalon who is also made in China and has been accused of using customers miners for their own mining adventure that is wrong and unethical, but Asicminer is a share venture so the hash rate are somehow distributed among the shareholders. Is they anything wrong? The fact they are increasing the hash rate dramatically is somehow concerns us. But cheap things comes from there. They are in Walmart, Kmart, Target and those tom, dick and harry stores who keep stocks of China made products.

Not referring to Avalon exactly. Referring to companies that openly admit to what they're doing, mining with what they produce.

No you can't stop cheap Wal-Mart crap, but it isn't too late to apply the brakes to this as it relates to btc.

Yes it will end up very wrong if you care about being a small miner for yourself. Stocks are a ponzi. They give you shares but keep most for themselves. Things like this are a bad fucking idea all around. (good for them though - utilizing westerners money)

eve

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Quote from: Paladin69 on June 30, 2013, 09:01:58 PM

Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 08:59:16 PM

They are the Factory or Supermarket to the world. Cheap things come from there. We need $10 for 1 gh/s or less.

Go with the cheapest of course, but don't support anyone who mines on anything but testnet. KNC has claimed they won't mine with what they develop.

Please think it through. To say otherwise means you don't understand how the growing hashrate and difficulty works against small miners. You will only be hurting yourself.

You will make less for yourself @ $17 GH if they are also developing hardware to mine for themselves than with someone @ $17.50 GH who only uses testnet and isn't mining with your hardware. End of story.

Do not support China.

If you are referring to Avalon who is also made in China and has been accused of using customers miners for their own mining adventure that is wrong and unethical, but Asicminer is a share venture so the hash rate are somehow distributed among the shareholders. Is they anything wrong? The fact they are increasing the hash rate dramatically is somehow concerns us. But cheap things comes from there. They are in Walmart, Kmart, Target and those tom, dick and harry stores who keep stocks of China made products.

Paladin69

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Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 08:59:16 PM

They are the Factory or Supermarket to the world. Cheap things come from there. We need $10 for 1 gh/s or less.

Go with the cheapest of course, but don't support anyone who mines on anything but testnet. KNC has claimed they won't mine with what they develop.

Please think it through. To say otherwise means you don't understand how the growing hashrate and difficulty works against small miners. You will only be hurting yourself.

You will make less for yourself @ $17 GH if they are also developing hardware to mine for themselves than with someone @ $17.50 GH who only uses testnet and isn't mining with your hardware. End of story.

Do not support China.

eve

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They are the Factory or Supermarket to the world. Cheap things come from there. We need $10 for 1 gh/s or less.

Paladin69

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Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 08:45:15 PM

Quote from: Paladin69 on June 30, 2013, 08:39:34 PM

Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 12:05:15 AM

with production setup costs minimal in china a $17 per gh/s rate is possible and real. Only $17 for 1 GH/S.

KNC is $17.50

I would rather support them instead. China is trying to dominate. Every dollar given to China for btc hardware lets them reinvest in themselves many times. KNC & BFL are only using testnet. China isn't. Which screws you in the end.

but we need cheap cheap hardware to mine where to get them?

You get them by supporting competent companies that have direct ties without middlemen. KNC's direct ties to ORSoC is a perfect example of this.

Obviously they haven't launched yet so I can't say they are 100% trustworthy. But I do know you can't trust the Chinese. I could point to way too many examples.

ASIC is a big game changer so people need to think this through very carefully on who they support. Do not support anyone who mines with what they make. Otherwise you will screw yourself.

eve

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Quote from: Paladin69 on June 30, 2013, 08:39:34 PM

Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 12:05:15 AM

with production setup costs minimal in china a $17 per gh/s rate is possible and real. Only $17 for 1 GH/S.

KNC is $17.50

I would rather support them instead. China is trying to dominate. Every dollar given to China for btc hardware lets them reinvest in themselves many times. KNC & BFL are only using testnet. China isn't. Which screws you in the end.

but we need cheap cheap hardware to mine where to get them?

Paladin69

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Activity: 784

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Quote from: eve on June 30, 2013, 12:05:15 AM

with production setup costs minimal in china a $17 per gh/s rate is possible and real. Only $17 for 1 GH/S.

KNC is $17.50

I would rather support them instead. China is trying to dominate. Every dollar given to China for btc hardware lets them reinvest in themselves many times. KNC & BFL are only using testnet. China isn't. Which screws you in the end.

auto2nr1

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When can we get more detailed information in regards to an IPO on the mining farm?

eve

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Quote from: freedomno1 on June 30, 2013, 12:06:45 AM

Oh there was announcement

We hope they offer somewhere around $17 or less

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Oh there was announcement

eve

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with production setup costs minimal in china a $17 per gh/s rate is possible and real. Only $17 for 1 GH/S.

dan99

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Quote from: yeemartin on May 22, 2013, 06:31:35 PM

Quote from: tempestb on May 22, 2013, 05:58:09 PM

Ok fair enough, my mistake. I just don't understand why they would go with 130 considering power would play such an important role in their ROI. That just lead me to believe they are using the same fab and the chips are easier to acquire. I mean, if you're going to make your own, why 130? Cheap?

Cheaper, shorter time to manufacture, so there is way less risk than investing in 65nm technology. Also, electricity is not expensive in China.

With the money they can make from the 130nm, they can then migrate to more advance process.

Have to admit that is the China advantage, Cheap Labor, Cheap Power, Plenty of resources/hardware, work like no tomorrow 24/7, and 130nm is cheap and fast. Probably all these guys already have the same schematics, design, BOM and same factory clunking them out. Important is Speed and shortest time frame. His NRE and other start up costs is very minimal so he is making a killing at 0.48btc per gh/s. He should have recover his investments before he reach 50T, so the extra 50T is profit all the way.

ziptie

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Quote from: klintay on June 26, 2013, 11:57:33 AM

"i don't believe these miners are real. why would anyone sell a miner when you could mine with it and make $$$ that way instead."

to which another poster replied, "because some people don't care about the profit but care about making the BTC network more decentralised and stronger and..." blah blah or someother socialist mumbojumbo.

I agree, the profit driven developer would take investment money to develop the technology, mine until the difficulty starts to rise, and then distribute devices to the buyers at a targeted ROI window. For example, an average public consumer buys a device today and receives it at a difficulty level that allows her to reach breakeven after 3-4 months of mining. The advantage over FPGA just needs to be above the threshold that ensures adoption of the technology and the strategy works. Giving away fast chips at low cost right now is literally throwing away potential profit, for everyone. It's much more sensible maintain any advantage that one may have.

canth

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Quote from: tinoki on June 26, 2013, 12:05:36 PM

Quote from: Rora on June 26, 2013, 06:29:07 AM

That argument doesn't mean you are entitled to charge 40+ USD equivalent for GH. No one in their right mind would purchase miners at those prices.

You are in every sense right.

I don't get why we're even having this conversation. It a capitalistic, free market economy the only price that is reasonable is the one where supply and demand meet. If there are willing participants at a given cost, then the price is right, end of story.

If you want to make a ROI or profit calculation, then by all means go ahead and do so - but we all have to speculate on what mining difficulty will be, how long it will take for a product to ship and begin hashing. It will only be an estimate and you have to make a decision about whether the value is there for you or not.

If you want a cheap product ($/gh wise) that won't arrive for months at your doorstep, go ahead and buy a BFL 5Ghz/7ghz miner.

tinoki

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Quote from: Rora on June 26, 2013, 06:29:07 AM

That argument doesn't mean you are entitled to charge 40+ USD equivalent for GH. No one in their right mind would purchase miners at those prices.

You are in every sense right.

klintay

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Value will be measured in sats

Obviously you are entitled to charge whatever you want for it. And the free market is entitled to buy it or not buy it or debate about the cost worthiness or "slag off" the company verbally for their products being so shitty or overpriced, etc.

That's how an equilibrium is found, which will eventually happen with ASICS too.

Someone on this forum once said,
"i don't believe these miners are real. why would anyone sell a miner when you could mine with it and make $$$ that way instead."

to which another poster replied, "because some people don't care about the profit but care about making the BTC network more decentralised and stronger and..." blah blah or someother socialist mumbojumbo.

That was a BS response. The truth is that 90% of the people selling mining equipment are charging 6 x what the device could mine in 1 month. In my opinion they are greedy. They are taking value out of the very purpose of the product. They get six month return instantly and negate all the risk onto the naive/greedy consumer. I certainly hope i am wrong and people do make a decent ROI or else the miner manufacturers and the whole BTC scene may have shot themselves in the foot.

nubbins

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Quote from: Rora on June 26, 2013, 06:29:07 AM

That argument doesn't mean you are entitled to charge 40+ USD equivalent for GH.

Yes it does.

If you make something, aren't you entitled to charge whatever you want for it?

Topic: Eyes to the horizon: A bitcoin ASIC project will be announced in June - page 4. (Read 72051 times)