Pages:
Author

Topic: f2pool not supporting roundtable was Re: 「魚池」BTC:270 Phash/s - LTC:500 Ghash/s - New Server in U.S. stratum-us.f2pool.com - page 5. (Read 4532 times)

legendary
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
Unprofessional how? I say this without malice. Greg, you're not much of an ambassador - leave the negotiations to someone else and stick with the tech explanations which you are very good at.
See Peter Todd's nice explanation on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/47cjb5/f2pool_to_withdraw_support_from_round_table_due/d0byl5a

Quote
The Medium post wasn't officially released with Adam Back as 'Blockstream President' - you're thinking of the draft, which was released publicly by accident.

FWIW, Adam Back wasn't the person who actually typed in "Blockstream President" in the original Medium draft - IIRC the document was edited on Samson Mow's laptop and he probably actually typed it in based on what he assumed Adam Back would sign as.

Before the final copy was released officially Adam Back asked for that title to be changed to individual after consulting with others, including other Blockstream employees, as well non-Blockstream Bitcoin devs such as myself, both at the meeting and on IRC. That actual edit was probably made by Samson again.

The rational for that change was pretty simple: Adam Back didn't feel he could speak for Blockstream officially without further consultation with others at Blockstream. Similarly, rather than use the more common term 'Bitcoin Core Developer', we specifically used the term 'Bitcoin Core Contributor' to avoid giving the impression that the Bitcoin developers who signed were signing on behalf of all Bitcoin Core developers (edit: I personally argued for even more clear language along those lines, but everyone was getting tired so I decided to drop the issue, and instead I made it clear in my tweet rather than delay things even further).

Since an earnest piece of confusion existed here the professional way to handle it would have been to first simply send an email "Hey, what happened here?"  Not to issue a public ultimatum; especially when the subject matter in question was a title on a on a document, and doubly so when the party being attacked didn't even have the technical ability to change it themselves. Even in the least charitable interpretation of the facts, F2Pool making a public fuss and threatening to change their operating behavior over this matter does not give me an impression of a thoughtfully managed organization.

Mistakes happen, however, and I do not think they should be vilified for it, but nor do I think it should be flushed from history.

Cheers.

Too bad. No one cares what you think. It's clear that blockstream is fully of shady shit and subtle manipulation tactics like who signs as what are clearly important to your operandi. Miners are to do what is in their best interest, not what your shitty company tricks them into thinking is in their best interest. How does your own medicine taste?
hero member
Activity: 721
Merit: 504
Well not sure I understand everything here however I noticed F2pool isn't in the top 3 anymore in winning blocks since this change.
staff
Activity: 4172
Merit: 8419
Unprofessional how? I say this without malice. Greg, you're not much of an ambassador - leave the negotiations to someone else and stick with the tech explanations which you are very good at.
See Peter Todd's nice explanation on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/47cjb5/f2pool_to_withdraw_support_from_round_table_due/d0byl5a

Quote
The Medium post wasn't officially released with Adam Back as 'Blockstream President' - you're thinking of the draft, which was released publicly by accident.

FWIW, Adam Back wasn't the person who actually typed in "Blockstream President" in the original Medium draft - IIRC the document was edited on Samson Mow's laptop and he probably actually typed it in based on what he assumed Adam Back would sign as.

Before the final copy was released officially Adam Back asked for that title to be changed to individual after consulting with others, including other Blockstream employees, as well non-Blockstream Bitcoin devs such as myself, both at the meeting and on IRC. That actual edit was probably made by Samson again.

The rational for that change was pretty simple: Adam Back didn't feel he could speak for Blockstream officially without further consultation with others at Blockstream. Similarly, rather than use the more common term 'Bitcoin Core Developer', we specifically used the term 'Bitcoin Core Contributor' to avoid giving the impression that the Bitcoin developers who signed were signing on behalf of all Bitcoin Core developers (edit: I personally argued for even more clear language along those lines, but everyone was getting tired so I decided to drop the issue, and instead I made it clear in my tweet rather than delay things even further).

Since an earnest piece of confusion existed here the professional way to handle it would have been to first simply send an email "Hey, what happened here?"  Not to issue a public ultimatum; especially when the subject matter in question was a title on a on a document, and doubly so when the party being attacked didn't even have the technical ability to change it themselves. Even in the least charitable interpretation of the facts, F2Pool making a public fuss and threatening to change their operating behavior over this matter does not give me an impression of a thoughtfully managed organization.

Mistakes happen, however, and I do not think they should be vilified for it, but nor do I think it should be flushed from history.

Cheers.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.

Unprofessional how?

Unprofessional because without Adam Back's HashCash, Bitcoin would not exist.

I don't give a wet fart about meeting the CEO of Blockstream anymore than the CEO of Coinbase.

OTOH it is a great honor to be in the presence of legendary cypherpunk Adam Back, no matter which hat he is or isn't wearing.

If you are too young or low-information to remember the crypto wars and PGP t-shirt, you may be forgiven for prioritizing titles over demonstrated expertise.

I think Adam's a great guy, obviously has lots of street cred. I agree that he and others in the community have earned more respect that they receive.

With that said, clearly Gavin has stewarded Bitcoin development well enough for 3-4 years after Satoshi took his hands off the wheel. How about you show some respect based on his past contributions too?

Let's not change the subject to Gavin.

You asked what was "unprofessional" about macbook's posts, and I answered you in the form of explaining how astronomically churlish it is to whine about which titles somebody like Adam Back (who needs no such honorariums) does or does not deploy in a work-in-progress draft document.

Eagerly jumping to conclusions and making public accusations of bad faith based on a giant nothingburger is unprofessional.

Thanks for asking.  I'm glad we had the opportunity to cover that point in more detail.   Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.

Unprofessional how?

Unprofessional because without Adam Back's HashCash, Bitcoin would not exist.

I don't give a wet fart about meeting the CEO of Blockstream anymore than the CEO of Coinbase.

OTOH it is a great honor to be in the presence of legendary cypherpunk Adam Back, no matter which hat he is or isn't wearing.

If you are too young or low-information to remember the crypto wars and PGP t-shirt, you may be forgiven for prioritizing titles over demonstrated expertise.

I think Adam's a great guy, obviously has lots of street cred. I agree that he and others in the community have earned more respect that they receive.

With that said, clearly Gavin has stewarded Bitcoin development well enough for 3-4 years after Satoshi took his hands off the wheel. How about you show some respect based on his past contributions too?

And now, this is totally off topic and I'm cluttering up F2Pool's thread. Bowing out.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.

Unprofessional how?

Unprofessional because without Adam Back's HashCash, Bitcoin would not exist.

I don't give a wet fart about meeting the CEO of Blockstream anymore than the CEO of Coinbase.

OTOH it is a great honor to be in the presence of legendary cypherpunk Adam Back, no matter which hat he is or isn't wearing.

If you are too young or low-information to remember the crypto wars and PGP t-shirt, you may be forgiven for prioritizing titles over demonstrated expertise.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
We are testing Classic mining on stratum.f2xtpool.com at port 3333.
F2XTPool is currently powered by Bitcoin Core v0.12.0, with -mempoolreplacement=false, only block version is set to 0x30000000. We are not going to run Classic node in production, for the “foreseeable ”future.
Are you a representative for f2pool?
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.

Unprofessional how? I say this without malice. Greg, you're not much of an ambassador - leave the negotiations to someone else and stick with the tech explanations which you are very good at.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Who cares if Adam Back signed as Blockstream President or not?

That is an excellent point of inquiry upon which to expound.

Macbook is obviously reaching for any purported excuse, no matter how far-fetched, to find fault with Evil Adam Back.  This isn't a new trend; he's been at it all month.

His shitty negotiating tactic of eagerly leaping to a conclusion of bad faith, based on a Seinfeldesque misunderstanding over nothing, is merely a way to put Dr. Back on the defensive.

Most of us Bitcoiners are here for the revolutionary technology, but a few of us (mainly noobs) are more concerned with politics, status, and social grooming.

The concern troll fussiness over whether or not Dr. Back can order his Evil Blockstream subordinates to play nice with Classic hard forkers delineates the divide with a bright line.

For example:

people are catching on to Blockstream/Core's semantic trickery, and it's beginning to backfire in their faces

quod erat demonstrandum
sr. member
Activity: 293
Merit: 250
We are testing Classic mining on stratum.f2xtpool.com at port 3333.
F2XTPool is currently powered by Bitcoin Core v0.12.0, with -mempoolreplacement=false, only block version is set to 0x30000000. We are not going to run Classic node in production, for the “foreseeable ”future.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.

Wait, the agreement was first signed "Adam Back, Blockstream" and then reverted to "Adam Back, Individual" (and finally back to "Adam Back, Blockstream"), and this is somehow F2Pool acting unprofessionally by calling them out?

My take is that people are catching on to Blockstream/Core's semantic trickery, and it's beginning to backfire in their faces.    
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
inb4 deletion

Who cares if Adam Back signed as Blockstream President or not? It seemed pretty clear to everyone that this was a meeting for Blockstream and the top mining pools to come to an agreement. The bigger concern, for me, is that everyone signed on to a (maybe) HF capacity bump 1.5 years out into the future, while we are hitting new transaction records right now.

Bitcoin "consensus" doesn't/shouldn't happen at an 18hr meeting in HK organized by Samson Mow.

Hardforks, yes, even "contentious" ones, are the mechanism by which Bitcoin is to upgrade itself. The only consensus mechanism in Bitcoin was outlined by satoshi:



Yes, a "contentious" hard fork could be a scary time for the market, as it involves a large amount of uncertainty. But, for many of us, it is not more scary/dangerous than squandering our utility and first mover advantage in a cloud of paralysis, stalling, and indecision.

Once again, not surprised that threats of PoW change start getting tossed around when someone steps out of line... "I'll make him an offer he can't refuse."
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.
Splitting off is always an option instead of deleting.
staff
Activity: 4172
Merit: 8419
I for one think the posts are an example unprofessional practices on the part of F2Pool, and are of topical interest to miners considering using the pool. I hope history isn't whitewashed through their removal.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
Announcement: We will withdraw support from February 21’s roundtable consensus, unless Adam Back gives us a reasonable explanation why he quietly changed his title from Blockstream President to Individual at the very last moment — without anybody noticed. We feel we’ve been cheated. I don’t know how we can trust Blockstream anymore in the future.
Given this a thread for f2pool in the mining section and macbook-air has brought up this discussion I'll leave it up to him to decide whether the direction the discussion is taking is on topic or not for the thread. In my eyes this thread has been derailed with yet another core vs *other discussion that is no longer on topic for f2pool but if macbook-air is happy for this discussion to continue then I'll leave it be. Otherwise I'll delete the last two pages of derailed discussion.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Talk is cheap. Answering a semi-controversial 1M->2M HF with an uber-controversial SHA2->SHA3 HF in which the miners are automatically opposed to the change - near insanity. Best of luck with that one! Smiley

I think that the joker burning the money is probably about as appropriate as you get!

It's not about the money.  It's about sending a message.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
While a PoW hash reset could be used in the event of a mining attack, don't kid yourself - no one is seriously pushing for a beyond-controversial PoW change at this time.

No one except Guy Corem and his co-signers at https://medium.com/@vcorem/lesson-learned-from-the-classic-coup-attempt-or-why-core-needs-to-prepare-a-gpu-only-pow-6a9afe18e4b0


Resetting to SHA3 just weakens bitcoin hashing power temporarily and then maybe permanently as miners have to discount their profits by taking into the possibility that the mining community will make their investments worth zero at any time.



Talk is cheap. Answering a semi-controversial 1M->2M HF with an uber-controversial SHA2->SHA3 HF in which the miners are automatically opposed to the change - near insanity. Best of luck with that one! Smiley

I think that the joker burning the money is probably about as appropriate as you get!
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
While a PoW hash reset could be used in the event of a mining attack, don't kid yourself - no one is seriously pushing for a beyond-controversial PoW change at this time.

No one except Guy Corem and his co-signers at https://medium.com/@vcorem/lesson-learned-from-the-classic-coup-attempt-or-why-core-needs-to-prepare-a-gpu-only-pow-6a9afe18e4b0


Resetting to SHA3 just weakens bitcoin hashing power temporarily and then maybe permanently as miners have to discount their profits by taking into the possibility that the mining community will make their investments worth zero at any time.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
People are waking up iB..

Tick tock.

I missed the part where you defend macbook's overwrought poutrage and hurt fee-fees over basically nothing.

You can do better than an appeal to popularity followed by some vague reference to a time bomb.
Pages:
Jump to: