Topic: FJ Agrees to make payment after extraordinary display of scumminess(Cliffs inOP) - page 3. (Read 7248 times)

You are operating a Bitcoin Casino, two terms often used interchangeably, where your only viable model can consist of trust/confidence by your clients. While this may not be indicative of your casino operations, this does seem very much like a bait and switch scenario - regardless of the YouTube view count you had users showing very good faith by expending time, resources, and even money to fulfill your request with the best of intentions.  What they got was nothing more than an insult, you inflated your prize pool to bait people into driving traffic to your site, and you can't even dig into your pockets to properly deliver.  No one is holding you to the top prizes, but the .3 uniform payout is nothing more than a slap in the face.  You picked to go into the casino business, we've seen the "superuser" scandals at UltimateBet last decade and multi-accounts/collusion is always a concern. Furthermore, you chose a highly speculative currency that your users will have little recourse if they wake up one day and they have vanished from your site.  Then you go ahead with this "promotion" only to under-deliver and instead dole out a nice slap in the face to all those who took the time to help you promote _YOUR_ casino.  I am not one of those people, but I see the writing on the wall, and I won't be visiting your site, that's for sure.  Sorry to all those who put in ample time on this endeavor.

http://bitcoinprbuzz.com/win-up-to-10-free-btc-in-fortunejacks-youtube-video-contest/

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No, you didn't negotiate. 

You decided not to pay any of the prizes because they didn't follow a rule that didn't exist. 

You gave each participant lest than $15 worth of bitcoin in a contest you promoted as "one of the most generous competitions ever seen in the world of bitcoin"

Players started complaining on April 1.

Here are some examples of the posts you ignored, all directly from your thread:



No response to these posts, you didn't post in the thread for over a week actually. Then you started responding only to completely unrelated posts like this one: (MonsterV is sig campaign member obviously)

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If you would of responded the first time, I wouldn't of had to keep asking.  Duh.

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LoL. (literally, lol)  Another blatant lie.

I've never had any site in my signature ever.  Anyone who knows anything about me will know what a ridiculous accusation that is. 

They will also know that you are a liar.

This is not a true story! provide a source of Press Release where you read that next 27 places get 3 BTC each. Otherwise, your argument will be void.




You raised an issue writing about this, so you made a point.



We negotiated with all contestants that minimum views accumulated was not enough to qualify for the prize fund, and none of them raised negative trust, simply recording a video and posting it nowhere will not bring you 4 BTC for the 4th place, and 0.11 BTC for the rest), we distributed the prize fund as we counted right, and negotiated with contestants. The largest amount of views video accumulated was 300 views and was payed 0.2 BTC for it, while we were expecting at least 3000+ views, rest of the contestants were payed 0.03 BTC who accumulated 100 or less views. T&C also stated that rules could be changed and players could be eliminated during the contest. The fact that some of the contestants were unsatisfied with the contest outcome, does not deserve negative trust for FJ Profile. And all of them understand this, but you. We may discuss this on the thread, or could create another thread for discussion, but raising a negative trust reference by a usual spammer who never uploaded any videos for the contest, is a bit gross



Tha fact that you doubt it, means absolutely nothing, and won't bring us negative trust.



You repeated the same posts over and over again, we counted it as scam, that is exactly why we deleted it. We've got a self moderated thread, rules were already posted above for why we delete posts.

Our negative relationship started with you demanding to be payed for signature campaign posts, when you were not even enrolled in it. After attaching our signature to your profile and posting on the forum, you demanded to be payed overrunning the usual procedure every community member has to pass. Since then, you spam and scam the thread.


You have not uploaded any videos for the contest, why are you raising a negative trust issue while rest of the contestants do not?

Directly from your press release:


Nobody is making an issue about this.


Yeah, we read the rules.  Nobody qualified for the top three prizes.  I don't think you technically owe anyone the top 3 prizes.That's not an excuse to get out of paying the spots that had no minimum view requirement.  There's no need to continue pointing out that nobody met the requirements for the top 3 prizes.    

You have refused to clarify the rules of your poker room for over 3 months now.  

How can you be preventing fraud if you never defined it in the first place!



I can easily prove you are lying about this.

Here are two examples of the posts you deleted from your thread.  
I have plenty more if you like.





Hope this post helped you understand the answer to this question.

Have you reserved the right to extend the deadline in contest Terms and Conditions? If not, that's not very fair to those who submitted within the initial deadline, as they were at risk of being out-competed.
It's not really an issue as there were less entries than paid places and no one met requirements for 1-3 place, but still not very clean practice.


I think you're missing the core point here. There were no minimum views requirements for places 4-30. And according to your own prize schedule, they each should've received 3BTC each. So on what grounds have you denied those payments?



Even if 3 BTC each was a mistake and you meant 3 BTC to be divided, you should have apologised for making a mistake and pay participants accordingly.

Based on the table, each should receive at least:

4-10: 3 btc total: ~0.43 each
11-30: 3 btc total: 0.15 each

That's a very minimum. Since (assumed) mistake in prize schedule was on your part, you still can't expect everyone to be 100% happy about that.

That's just my opinion.

I've quickly glanced through the posts defending fJ  seems to also be FJ signature campaigns. What is mentioned does seem scammy. offering a prize than revealing no winner is in fact cheating. There should be no excuses to not pay the full price amount.

Andreas is the support's name and he is clueless about poker. he told me once via live chat.
but, it seems he is the only one in charge.. jeez

 

You seem to be implying most of the users had illegitamite views, which seems pretty absurd considering most of them barely had any.

I don't recall the exact view counts, but none of the videos came close to the required views for top few spots.  ( I believe most had under 50 views ) 

Right now there are 15 videos on the FortuneJack Youtube Page, most of them 5+ months old.  The three most popular have 430, 275 and 200 views.  The rest have between 20 and 80.

You told your users back in december that you thought the videos already submitted were "creative and well made"

You were hoping for a competition on who could advertise your site for you to the most people.

If you would of had a "who can advertise my site the best" contest, you'd be right.

Instead, you had a "who can make the best video" contest with only the top few prizes reserved for those that get thousands of views.  The people who are good at advertising were probably too busy getting paid to advertise to enter a "video contest"

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You offer online poker but refuse to explain what is and is not allowed.  I assure you, your honest players are being cheated every day - and it's your fault.

You should be putting just as much effort into making sure the players are cheating you in your own casino as you are making sure they aren't cheating other players in your poker room.

Most likely you have nobody on your staff with experience in online poker.  You can't just push a button and let it go like other casino games.

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I think this bonus, much like your last, is very misleading.

According to your terms, no play is counted towards playthrough of the bonus untill the player has lost their entire initial deposit.  This makes your promotion a 130% lossback, not an instant deposit bonus.

A player could deposit 777mbtc, receive your 1000 mbtc bonus, and wager hundreds of bitcoin before ever losing their initial 777 mbtc. 

After all that, they will be surprised to learn none of the wager went to clearing any of their bonus at all.

Greetings dear users,

Considering the lively interest that our recent video contest has caused among players, our company finds it essential to once again get back to all the terms of said contest by going into depth to ensure players that no scheming or manipulation was involved from FJ.
    
No information was withheld from the public and our casino has been open about the whole deal from the beginning. The fact that the results of our communication with certain players caused negative feedback is another matter.

In regards to the accusations of FortuneJack preventing certain members from discussing the contest we would like to inform you that the only user who's posts were removed from multiple topics is known to have a history of spamming important threads with aggressive accusations thus preventing other players from discussing important issues and simply enjoying themselves in our friendly community.     
    
Please note that from the available 10 participants only one has managed to qualify by satisfying all the requirements and was rewarded accordingly. Said participant has received prize of appreciation by becoming Jack's Favorite.
   
Despite the fact that only one player has met the criteria stated in the terms of agreement of the video contest, our company decided to thank other legit participants for their effort with modest encouraging rewards. This was executed outside of the terms of video contest solely by company's initiative.
     
Prior to the contest all the participants have been WARNED to avoid using fake views and other illegitimate ways of achieving the goal of competition. As stated in the rules the casino withholds the right to disqualify any video suspected in illegitimate actions. Due to known cases of views being illegitimately obtained and other inappropriate behavior from certain participants - producers of respective content have been disqualified as per rules and regulations of the Video Contest.       
   
All the video content that has been disqualified was removed from FJ's official YouTube channel and other sources, is no longer to be considered the property of FJ and doesn't violate any rules of paid online advertising.
   
We hope that this will help members of our community to understand the situation better and prevent from the negative outbursts and false accusations. 
   
BTW, FJ offers New long awaited feature - Instant deposit bonuses.

• A “welcome” bonus up to 1 BTC is now available to all players on their first minimum 0.777 deposit. Fortunejack credits the bonus to the player’s bonus balance.
• Players are also entitled to a 100% welcome bonus up to 0.5 BTC on their first deposit. A minimum 0.001 BTC is required for this bonus. Fortunejack awards the welcome bonus to the bonus amount balance.
• Players can also receive a monthly 100% deposit bonus up to 1 BTC with their first deposit.

Regards,
FortuneJack Team

I know there are something fishy about the contest so I'm decide to not got with the contest
I can say that they are very unprofessional gambling site I've ever met

I did already posted all the Proofs in their thread 0n 02 April 2016, But didnt get any response from there site.

It will be a real shame if this is not sorted out.
FJ has the best casino interface i have seen, simple clear and easy layout.

The only and simple way to solve this problem are pay the amount which pawel7777 mentioned.

fj must realized current -4 negative reputation in their account will affected to the casino.

pay them and case closed because fj has a good intention . but if they refused / ignored i think they deserve more negative numbers?

I quoted exactly what you said.  It wasn't that.


No, the contest terms were clear enough to conclude that FortuneJack did not honor them, this is the the main issue.

Those who did enter the contest should not suffer because others did not.



I agree, and Fortune Jack had plenty of opportunity to do the right thing.  They chose not to.

I don't enjoy making these threads, I do it because I don't think anyone else will if I don't.  Players were asking FJ whats up with the contest on April 2.  They kept asking.  Almost a week before making this thread, I told them if they didn't respond I would be making issue more public.  If they had explained specifically why each video not getting a prize didn't qualify (and it made sense) and paid those that did .3 BTC I would never have created thread.

FFS I didn't say FJ definitely didn't scam people, I said it's not quite the scam in a classic meaning. Which is not.

The main issue here is that contest had no clear terms and conditions and it didn't get as much interest as FJ expected, comparing this to signature campaign is bit missed.

But if you're desperate to do it, it would be more like sig campaign refusing payment due to low quality posts and participant felt scammed because there wasn't a clear definition of what 'constructive post' is. Guess what, this happens all the time.

To dumb it down, in terms of FJ's contest, it's a question whether (with lack of T&Cs) every entry should be classed as qualifying, or whether you accept FJ to reject entries due to low quality (based on their own judgement).

To put this to extreme, if I submitted video featuring my dick and me drunk-shouting "F**k FJ" should I feel entitled to being rewarded, just because there are less entries than paid places? Would you support my claim, or would you give FJ a right to reject my entry?

Point is, it's not always a black/white situation.


To summarise, in my opinion, lack of clear rules should be judged more (but not entirely) in favour of participants. FJ should apologise and look to settle the matter by paying out at least according to the table, so:

4-10: 3 btc total: ~0.43 each
11-30: 3 btc total: 0.15 each

But you should give FJ right to reject very low-quality vids (if there are such at all).

Hopefully that would settle it.


ps. All my knowledge of the matter comes from first post of this thread, which I assume is accurate. I haven't seen any of the vids, and I don't even visit FJ anymore as it's blocked in UK.

ps2. the second accusation didn't get any traction, so not commenting on it.

Good point.  

Lets say a site decided to end their sig campaign and not pay anyone for the final month.

Could we call them scammers even though the Sig campaign was closed?  I think most would.

Not with pawels logic:

Would the site benefit by keeping funds for themselves that the members were entitled to?  Yes obviously.  

But not with Pawels logic:

With pawels logic, they would be not be guilty of stealing money and since they were no longer actively using the signatures, they wouldn't be guilty of stealing time and work.

Would participating in a signature campaign for an unethically run business be ethical (Like FJ or Betcoin.ag?)  

with that logic if you dont get your pay from sign campaing you will not say sign campaigner is scamer right?