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Topic: Flagging accounts which are up to sale [DT member actions needed] - page 5. (Read 11365 times)

full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 103


Now you need to verify if you really are the original owner of the account. Signing a message from an old address would work.

I have some old addresses from 2015 or even 2013 to sign. But that wouldn't proof anything. I'm not the only one with some old addresses.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
Yeah, I'm really surprised. I have no explanation for that but my account is NOT for sale! And I changed the password a few minutes ago.
How can I find out wheter I got hacked? I don't have these messages in the outbox,  I haven't even used this account for weeks...
Unfortunately, there is no way to prove that you did not send that message unless we pry into your every detail of your life during the surrounding period.

There is no way to differentiate a user that sent the message and is now lying about not sending the message and one that didn't send the message (where some other entity did)

And it is mindrust.

The T is silent.
Cool, thanks mindrus'
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
Yeah, I'm really surprised. I have no explanation for that but my account is NOT for sale! And I changed the password a few minutes ago.
How can I find out wheter I got hacked? I don't have these messages in the outbox,  I haven't even used this account for weeks...

You can't know if you were hacked. There is no email notification if someone else logs into your account so you can't just say "I wasn't hacked"

If you weren't hacked that means It was you who sent those PM's which make things even worse.

Now you need to verify if you really are the original owner of the account. Signing a message from an old address would work.
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 103
Yeah, I'm really surprised. I have no explanation for that but my account is NOT for sale! And I changed the password a few minutes ago.
How can I find out wheter I got hacked? I don't have these messages in the outbox,  I haven't even used this account for weeks...
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
WTF is going on here? Mindtrust, remove your negative feedback. My account isn't for sale. And I also did not got hacked, but I'm going to change my password right now, just to be sure!

https://imgur.com/if7k5iX

You believe this screen shot is fake? I'd like to hear more about it.

And it is mindrust.

The T is silent.
full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 103
WTF is going on here? Mindtrust, remove your negative feedback. My account isn't for sale. And I also did not got hacked, but I'm going to change my password right now, just to be sure!
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
Why would you ban an account that's up for sale?

No one bans these accounts.

They receive a negative trust rating, because they are not to be trusted.


The account is not banned and can be still used the same way. But other people have to be warned that the so-called 'hero member with +6 trust' is just a sold account and anyone could be the owner.



isn't the only one who should be tagged is the seller for selling an account?

No. The account itself needs to be tagged.

Using a bought and higher rank account lets other user think that the person is trustworthy (especially the account with +6 trust rating).
If the account is being sold, the account holder can not be trusted at all because it could be anyone without any effort being put into 'his' account. And therefore the negative trust rating.



Last question, the OP can be trusted? wherein a matter of privacy was leaked? The OP REVEAL A CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION 

Information about an potential trade was made public.
This is absolutely fine. You never told me to keep that confidential.

I am free to share my own chat history.



PS. A lot of people here didn't see the situation

I have uploaded the screenshots of the whole conversation. Anyone who wants to see it, can see it.



they thought thought that we should be tagged for selling which is not an offense but only discourage and they praised the person who leaks a confidential information and must be trusted?

Making my own chat history public and warning others (especially newbies) about fake higher-rank member means that i am untrustworthy in monetary terms?
Not really..
jr. member
Activity: 90
Merit: 1
This is true, I'm connected to trusted seller for finding a buyer so that I would have a commission to him. The account was owned or was bought and up to sell it, It was discourage by the forum because of the spam however it's not definitely against the rules isn't? Why would you ban an account that's up for sale? isn't the only one who should be tagged is the seller for selling an account?


Last question, the OP can be trusted? wherein a matter of privacy was leaked? The OP REVEAL A CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION  and didn't know the value of privacy does this person should be trusted by anyone? even if the selling of account is illegal the OP should respected the matter of privacy of two parties. We know it was discouraged by the forum but not totally a major offense in here. The main offense I think if it started to post spam posts, used the account to join on single campaign, the account was used for scamming and illegal works but up for selling? i don't know.

PS. A lot of people here didn't see the situation, they thought thought that we should be tagged for selling which is not an offense but only discourage and they praised the person who leaks a confidential information and must be trusted?
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1926
฿ear ride on the rainbow slide

None of what you said has anything to do with the specific fact set that results in the OP being in breach of contract with the seller he was dealing with.

It depends on what was discussed.

Unless I missed something - they way I read it was that the OP just showed interest in buying an account in a "sting operation".

In order for a "breach of contract to occur there has to be offer and acceptance".

If the OP stated that he would buy a specific account once he verified that the seller owned it then there would be acceptance.

Whether anyone on DT would tag someone for breaking a contract for something that is discouraged on this forum is another matter.

A contract requires three essential components.

Offer
Acceptance of identical terms of the offer.
Consideration


But from what I read:


1)
After requesting proof of ownership of cicizhang and TanClan98 from SeW900, he told me that 'the account' already is banned.
Therefore he proposed me 2 other accounts, which i can buy (zackie and Zedster).

He told me to contact @TrustedAccSeller (via telegram), which i did.


After a long conversation with him and multiple excuses i brought up to not buy an account which he had proven the ownership of (because i wanted to tag as much accounts as possible), i finally got the proof of ownership of multiple accounts and names of a few accounts without proof of ownership.

The fact that they were initially discussing an account that was not even available indicates that there was an "invitation to treat" rather than an offer.

"...an expression of willingness to negotiate. A person making an invitation to treat does not intend to be bound as soon as it is accepted by the person to whom the statement is addressed.




2)
Rueduciel offered me J Gambler.But he did not send me a proof for ownership because he noticed that this account already is reserved for some other buyer.
Therefore he proposed me the account fitty, which he proved that he indeed has control over this account via a PM.

But now i really wanted to also have his first account (J Gambler) to be flagged too. I asked him whether i can have this account if i additionally pay 50$ on top (not like 400$ aren't enough already).
He agreed.

Unfortunately i made a big mistake by leaving him a negative trust rating BEFORE contacting, paired with my sense of humor regarding the chosen username, which interfered my plan. He came to the conclusion that my alt (alice321) is related to me (bob123).

This is possibly a bit closer to a potential contract.

In my view the "buyer" made a "request for information" (invitation to treat) where consideration was discussed rather than an offer.

Quote
I asked him whether i can have this account if i additionally pay 50$ on top (not like 400$ aren't enough already).

I consider this a “invitations to treat”, “requests for information” or “statements of intention” rather than an offer.

Quote
He agreed.
(That the account was for sale for such an amount = Offer

However there is no information that indicates the "buyer" accepted the sellers offer.


For that to occur there would have to have been a statement like "if you accept $ for the account I will buy it" rather than "would you accept $ ?"


I do not agree that there was a contract. Also even if there was a contract I doubt that anyone would tag him for it.

To the OP I would have to ask whether the end result justifies the means.. It is treading into a grey area of ethics. The outcome is tiny for something that is an epidemic on this forum.

I'm not a fan of private sting operations. There are many other initiatives in place that in my view are much better suited at addressing the problem like permabans for plagiarized content by account farmers.

Please note that I find account buyers and sellers untrustworthy. But it is permitted (but discouraged) under the forum rules.



legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Perhaps you should stop commenting if you don't know what you are talking about -- I get that you want to make use of that paid avatar, but these types of posts are very harmful.

None of what you said has anything to do with the specific fact set that results in the OP being in breach of contract with the seller he was dealing with.

LOL, projecting as usual. Unlike your Yobit signature, my avatar doesn't require me to post in order to get paid.

How about instead of running in circles trying to stretch this to a definition of a contract you go ahead and create the flag or contact the account seller and ask him to do that. I have a feeling it would be seen as "at least partially false" by quite a few users.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
2) The 'damage' is not the result of rescinding from the 'trade'. It is the result of sharing information which everyone should have access too.

Damn right. Quicksy would probably try to call it an "implied contract" of keeping quiet but he's also said in the past that PMs are not private. If you ever get a flag for this I'll oppose it.
The only reason why he received the information in the first place is because he entered into an agreement.

If I see a bicycle you're selling and tell everyone that it's ugly and the chain is broken - I don't think I'm in breach of a contract. Regardless of whether I subsequently buy the bicycle or not. Regardless of whether I mentioned a dollar amount beforehand or not.

Well done though - such valiant selfless defence of account farmers.
Perhaps you should stop commenting if you don't know what you are talking about -- I get that you want to make use of that paid avatar, but these types of posts are very harmful.

None of what you said has anything to do with the specific fact set that results in the OP being in breach of contract with the seller he was dealing with.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
2) The 'damage' is not the result of rescinding from the 'trade'. It is the result of sharing information which everyone should have access too.

Damn right. Quicksy would probably try to call it an "implied contract" of keeping quiet but he's also said in the past that PMs are not private. If you ever get a flag for this I'll oppose it.
The only reason why he received the information in the first place is because he entered into an agreement.

If I see a bicycle you're selling and tell everyone that it's ugly and the chain is broken - I don't think I'm in breach of a contract. Regardless of whether I subsequently buy the bicycle or not. Regardless of whether I mentioned a dollar amount beforehand or not.

Well done though - such valiant selfless defence of account farmers.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
2) The 'damage' is not the result of rescinding from the 'trade'. It is the result of sharing information which everyone should have access too.

Damn right. Quicksy would probably try to call it an "implied contract" of keeping quiet but he's also said in the past that PMs are not private. If you ever get a flag for this I'll oppose it.
The only reason why he received the information in the first place is because he entered into an agreement.

The OP would not have received said information if he had not agreed to buy the forum accounts after receiving the PM.

It is good to know you will oppose holding someone accountable for not honoring their terms of an agreement, and that you will protect someone who lied in order to get something from someone.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
2) The 'damage' is not the result of rescinding from the 'trade'. It is the result of sharing information which everyone should have access too.

Damn right. Quicksy would probably try to call it an "implied contract" of keeping quiet but he's also said in the past that PMs are not private. If you ever get a flag for this I'll oppose it.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 2481
I’m sure there are at least three people in DT willing to support a flag for someone who was harmed, even if the underlying business they are involved in is not well liked.

Actually, the description of the flag says:
Quote
This user violated a written contract with me, resulting in damages.

The first point we can argue about is the violation. We have different point of views regarding this.


But absolutely clear is, that the so-called 'violation' definitely did NOT result in any damage at all.

What resulted in 'damage' was that i didn't just keep my mouth shut but took the appropriate action to tag the accounts as being up for sale.
1) This actually isn't any damage at all. The accounts ARE worth way less because being some good of a trade. Other people (outside of the trade) just didn't know it before the tag. Now, it is fair, since everyone has the same information regarding these accounts (the fact that they are just a good in a trade and that they shouldn't be trusted).
My actions did NOT reduce the value of these accounts, they revealed the actual value to everybody on this forum.
2) The 'damage' is not the result of rescinding from the 'trade'. It is the result of sharing information which everyone should have access too.


So, no.. I don't believe the flag would be appropriate.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374

It is the exposing the information he gave you that caused the damages. In conjunction with your not following through on what you said you would do causes the flag the person could create to be valid.


Perhaps the flag will be valid. However, who is going to support it? In order for the banner and the warning to display for a person, 3 people on their trust list have to support it. I certainly do not see 3 DT1 and DT2 members supporting such a flag. Perhaps the account sellers/farmers can get together and create their own trust network.  Roll Eyes

I’m sure there are at least three people in DT willing to support a flag for someone who was harmed, even if the underlying business they are involved in is not well liked.

If someone can break their agreements with someone who is unpopular, the trust system would be pretty pointless, and would be nothing other than a popularity contest.
legendary
Activity: 1919
Merit: 1230
AKA Ms-overzealous-condecsending-explitive-account
Damn. A+ for effort. That's some hardcore detective work. Here i was thinking Legendary/Hero account sellers were a myth by now.
-[clip]-


Here's one for sale for .45BTChttps://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/legendary-account-for-sale-5157380
They're all over the place. 
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1828

It is the exposing the information he gave you that caused the damages. In conjunction with your not following through on what you said you would do causes the flag the person could create to be valid.


Perhaps the flag will be valid. However, who is going to support it? In order for the banner and the warning to display for a person, 3 people on their trust list have to support it. I certainly do not see 3 DT1 and DT2 members supporting such a flag. Perhaps the account sellers/farmers can get together and create their own trust network.  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2272
Interesting point of view. I kind of agree here, despite these people being account sellers, was it really right to mislead them (and in a way, scam them?) as 2 wrongs don't make a right. Curious as to how other people think about this..
Sting operations are always double edged sword.
Sting operations are a) done by law enforcement with strict oversight, and b) do not allow law enforcement to steal (or attempt to steal) from others, nor do they allow law enforcement to commit other torts
Thanks for explaining me something I know. Jesus, some people on this forum  Roll Eyes

@OP good job exposing those accounts, account with positive trust could end up in wrong hands and do damage. Don't listen to QS, just take a look at his signature - he is knowingly advertising pump and dump.
copper member
Activity: 2996
Merit: 2374
The value decreased when you disclosed the confidential information.

Which itself has nothing to do with the 'contract'. What is the 'confidential information' in your eyes ?
The only thing which is 'confidential' is the PM i received. And this PM itself did not decrease the value.

The fact that i called him out for doing shady business is what decreased the value. And ONLY if you really want to call it like that.
Because the accounts had no real value. They were sold for a price. That's it. But the real value was close to zero.. it is just some shitty account which is being traded. No value behind it.


By the way.. i don't have a problem with tagging account sellers and their accounts. Even if they 'lose value'.
I know that sounds harsh to someone who owns multiple accounts.. but it is the truth.
It is the exposing the information he gave you that caused the damages. In conjunction with your not following through on what you said you would do causes the flag the person could create to be valid.

If you want to go around damaging the value of what other people are selling, I think that is kinda sleazy, but go ahead and do that, just don't fail to follow through on your obligations in the process.


The offer does not expose a person to liability. In order for an offer to obligate the person making the offer, it will need to be accepted by the other party prior to the offer being withdrawn, or expiring.

There were so much things missing regarding the 'trade' that it wouldn't even be called 'similar to a contract' in my country..
You can learn about contracts here.
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