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Topic: Foundation Devices 'Passport Batch 2' hardware wallet review - page 5. (Read 1948 times)

legendary
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Sure, however think about that: $7m may sound like a lot to us, but it's just 0.1% of this hedge fund. Even if they wanted to focus 99.9% on shitcoins, they could absolutely do that without pressuring Passport into any weird direction. Cheesy
Yeah it's not a lot when you look how much money they have, but they won't throw away money just like that.
Foundation Devices also raised $2 Million last year, so you do need money flow to keep running things for any business.
Let's compare that with Ledger who collected $380 million from last year series C fundraising, that is really a big difference.
I personally wouldn't mind if they allow adding few other shitcoins that are privacy based, but I know the road is going down the hill when that happens.

PS
It would be interesting to collect foundrising information for all hardware wallets, but this would be tricky thing to do,
You would need to find who exactly invested money, how much they invested, and find som reliable documentation or links for that.
hero member
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It's ok if other coins want to build on top of Passport software, but this should NOT be officially supported by Passport developers in any way.
I agree with that; but have no worries any of this is going to happen.

I don't know much about Polychain Capital, but quick search is showing me they are hedge fund involved with Tezos shitcoin, Quai Network, Dfinity, Kik Messenger and they invested in 14 different shitcoins...
https://foundationdevices.com/2022/12/announcing-our-7m-seed-round/
Sure, however think about that: $7m may sound like a lot to us, but it's just 0.1% of this hedge fund. Even if they wanted to focus 99.9% on shitcoins, they could absolutely do that without pressuring Passport into any weird direction. Cheesy
legendary
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Really looking forward to see what this funding enables regarding business expansion and software development ... Things are looking bright for you guys, congrats @zherber! Probably not next year, but I would really love to see some action in Europe, perhaps 2024?
I just hope it's not going to be expansion and adding shitcoins support in Passport, because it's nice when you have 7 million dollars collected by new seed round, but it's not very nice to hear this was done by Polychain Capital  Tongue
It's ok if other coins want to build on top of Passport software, but this should NOT be officially supported by Passport developers in any way.
I don't know much about Polychain Capital, but quick search is showing me they are hedge fund involved with Tezos shitcoin, Quai Network, Dfinity, Kik Messenger and they invested in 14 different shitcoins...
https://foundationdevices.com/2022/12/announcing-our-7m-seed-round/
legendary
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Happy to clarify your questions! Anyone else? Wink
While I don't have any questions (for now) I do have great news - Foundation just secured another $7M in funding[1] from Polychain Capital[2] (the latest SEC file[3] (March 2022) mentions that the fund manages a total of ~ $6.6 billion USD).
According to BusinessWire.com[4] the focus of the investment will be the following:
Quote
Foundation’s financing will enable the company to continue expanding its engineering and design teams and building next-gen sovereignty products, with a short-term focus on software services.
Really looking forward to see what this funding enables regarding business expansion and software development ... Things are looking bright for you guys, congrats @zherber! Probably not next year, but I would really love to see some action in Europe, perhaps 2024?

[1]https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/19/foundation-devices-seed/
[2]https://polychain.capital/
[3]https://web.archive.org/web/20220706154222/https://sec.report/AdviserInfo/Firms/285022/Form-ADV-285022.pdf
[4]https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221219005094/en/Foundation-Devices-Announces-Completion-of-7M-Seed-Round-to-Accelerate-Development-of-its-Sovereign-Computing-Platform
hero member
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Really, MK4 has QR codes and camera? I didn't know that.
No, it doesn't have a camera, but it does generate QR codes for addresses and signed transactions.
I see! Funnily enough; I can't generate addresses on the Passport (or I don't know how); you have to do it through the watch-only software wallet. You can then verify it using the Passport camera, though.
QR codes for signed PSBTs means you transfer the PSBT to the wallet using microSD and get it back, signed, through QR code? I don't see the benefit of that, since a microSD card is still involved, but good to know nonetheless.

Just to clarify; to connect through USB you have to cut a trace or something like that if I remember correctly, right? Otherwise, a hack may be able to 're-enable' the USB port; something impossible on Passport since it has physically only power connections and no data lines going to the USB port.
To use USB connectivity you need to enable a setting on the device, that's all.  It'll work just like any typical wallet with Electrum.  With the default setting the USB port only provides power.  I tend to forget that it also has NFC capability, but I don't know of a wallet app that I would want to use with the feature.
Okay. I must say; not having D+ and D- lines at all, makes me feel safer. Although I can't gauge how much smaller the attack surface really is in the real world.



Happy to clarify your questions! Anyone else? Wink
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Really, MK4 has QR codes and camera? I didn't know that.

No, it doesn't have a camera, but it does generate QR codes for addresses and signed transactions.

Just to clarify; to connect through USB you have to cut a trace or something like that if I remember correctly, right? Otherwise, a hack may be able to 're-enable' the USB port; something impossible on Passport since it has physically only power connections and no data lines going to the USB port.

To use USB connectivity you need to enable a setting on the device, that's all.  It'll work just like any typical wallet with Electrum.  With the default setting the USB port only provides power.  I tend to forget that it also has NFC capability, but I don't know of an app that I would want to use with the feature.


The addition of a camera and a larger screen would be a worthwhile improvement for the Mk5.  Wink
True! And a battery. That would make it quite similar to Passport, right? Tongue

 Wink


If I'm understanding you correctly.  There are two dedicated keys to scroll through the alphabet, you can switch between caps without losing your place and a setting to scroll through special characters.
No; this button down here selects between lowercase, uppercase and numbers. If you're in 'numbers' mode and hit '3', you just get a 3. If you are in 'uppercase' and hit '3' once, you get a D; if you hit it twice, you get E and so on.



Okay, now I get it, I must have misunderstood your previous post.  That's actually a much better system, and what I would have expected from the device.   Smiley
hero member
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I only own a Mk4, which again, can work the same way, but it has the ability to generate QR codes (not sure if the Mk3 can or not.)  The Mk4 can also work as a typical USB-connected hardware wallet if one chooses.  I prefer to keep mine on the default setting of using the mSD card.
Really, MK4 has QR codes and camera? I didn't know that.
Just to clarify; to connect through USB you have to cut a trace or something like that if I remember correctly, right? Otherwise, a hack may be able to 're-enable' the USB port; something impossible on Passport since it has physically only power connections and no data lines going to the USB port.

The addition of a camera and a larger screen would be a worthwhile improvement for the Mk5.  Wink
True! And a battery. That would make it quite similar to Passport, right? Tongue

If I'm understanding you correctly.  There are two dedicated keys to scroll through the alphabet, you can switch between caps without losing your place and a setting to scroll through special characters.
No; this button down here selects between lowercase, uppercase and numbers. If you're in 'numbers' mode and hit '3', you just get a 3. If you are in 'uppercase' and hit '3' once, you get a D; if you hit it twice, you get E and so on.



I personally find airgap using microSD cards very impractical; less practical than USB wallets even, since I more likely have a microUSB cable with me than a microSD card reader.
You know that you can easily buy cheap microSD to USB adapter for few bucks?
Just insert SDcard and you will have double functionality, that looks and works the same way as regular USD stick.
Of course; they even come with Passport Batch 2. But I would either lose them or forget to bring them with me. That's why Passport is so nice to have, all self-contained. No need for cables or cards; just need the wallet and another device. If the battery runs out, USB-C means it should be possible to find / borrow a cable somewhere. Whereas people don't have microSD card adapters with them and it's more suspicious to ask.
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Are they really working on new Coldcard Mk5 model or this is only wishful thinking?

Not that I know of, just wishful thinking.  But you know what they say about being in business for yourself; if you're not growing your business your actually shrinking it.  There's no such thing as being stagnant. 

But let's be honest, market of hardware wallet is evolving quickly and if they don't keep up they could soon be irrelevant for most people, except maybe geeks, and that can be said for all other hardware wallets.

Absolutely.  As has been demonstrated by new arrivals like the Foundation Passport, the market is ready for upgrades and new innovation, and accommodating of higher prices than we've seen so far.  I really like my ColdCard but to remain relevant they need to add features to their devices that make them easier to use.  A camera would fit right to their original philosophy of keeping the device air-gapped, as well.
legendary
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I personally find airgap using microSD cards very impractical; less practical than USB wallets even, since I more likely have a microUSB cable with me than a microSD card reader.
You know that you can easily buy cheap microSD to USB adapter for few bucks?
Just insert SDcard and you will have double functionality, that looks and works the same way as regular USD stick.



The addition of a camera and a larger screen would be a worthwhile improvement for the Mk5.  Wink
Are they really working on new Coldcard Mk5 model or this is only wishful thinking?
I think I saw someone asking them this question recently and I they said something like, dude we just released Mk4 and you are already asking as for new model Cheesy
But let's be honest, market of hardware wallet is evolving quickly and if they don't keep up they could soon be irrelevant for most people, except maybe geeks, and that can be said for all other hardware wallets.
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I've been really pleased with my ColdCard which I purchased the past summer, and I also have both flavors of Trezor's wallets, so I feel pretty confident in my security.  The Passport does have some features which I would appreciate and can easily see replacing the ColdCard as my daily driver.
I'm curious now: daily driver, but only in conjunction with a PC / laptop, right? Since ColdCard has no battery & no camera.

I personally find airgap using microSD cards very impractical; less practical than USB wallets even, since I more likely have a microUSB cable with me than a microSD card reader. That's why the camera is such a deal breaker. Add to that the ability to use it with any mobile device, makes it the perfect everyday wallet. I'm sure you will love it!

Yes, to your first question, kinda sorta.  The Mk3 works as you describe and so can the Mk4, but all it really needs is a power source.  With the adequate cable you can power it up from a phone, or a small usb battery.

I only own a Mk4, which again, can work the same way, but it has the ability to generate QR codes (not sure if the Mk3 can or not.)  The Mk4 can also work as a typical USB-connected hardware wallet if one chooses.  I prefer to keep mine on the default setting of using the mSD card.  

As for the ColdCard's QR codes; I can't read them with the cheap webcam I have on my desktop, but the laptop camera can read them.  I haven't tried on the phone, I only have hot wallets on that device, but I doubt that it's cameras would have any trouble.  The addition of a camera and a larger screen would be a worthwhile improvement for the Mk5.  Wink

It's not T9. So, not 'predictive'. I did have phones that either didn't have T9 or where it didn't work; therefore this method of clicking a key multiple times to reach the desired letter, was familiar to me. You have a dedicated key that cycles the keyboard through lower-case, upper-case and numbers.
Sounds like the same way passphrases are entered into the ColdCard.  It's not the worst thing, but I do have some long, complex passphrases and I am prone to making errors.  Undecided
Oh really? I didn't know that. Undecided I don't have a ColdCard to compare with, but I feel this way of typing is still very fast; I'm sure the shape & size of both Passports (+ good large screen) also plays a role in improving that.

If I'm understanding you correctly.  There are two dedicated keys to scroll through the alphabet, you can switch between caps without losing your place and a setting to scroll through special characters.
hero member
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I've been really pleased with my ColdCard which I purchased the past summer, and I also have both flavors of Trezor's wallets, so I feel pretty confident in my security.  The Passport does have some features which I would appreciate and can easily see replacing the ColdCard as my daily driver.
I'm curious now: daily driver, but only in conjunction with a PC / laptop, right? Since ColdCard has no battery & no camera.

I personally find airgap using microSD cards very impractical; less practical than USB wallets even, since I more likely have a microUSB cable with me than a microSD card reader. That's why the camera is such a deal breaker. Add to that the ability to use it with any mobile device, makes it the perfect everyday wallet. I'm sure you will love it!

It's not T9. So, not 'predictive'. I did have phones that either didn't have T9 or where it didn't work; therefore this method of clicking a key multiple times to reach the desired letter, was familiar to me. You have a dedicated key that cycles the keyboard through lower-case, upper-case and numbers.
Sounds like the same way passphrases are entered into the ColdCard.  It's not the worst thing, but I do have some long, complex passphrases and I am prone to making errors.  Undecided
Oh really? I didn't know that. Undecided I don't have a ColdCard to compare with, but I feel this way of typing is still very fast; I'm sure the shape & size of both Passports (+ good large screen) also plays a role in improving that.

That also makes sense and it's what I would expect since passphrases aren't (or shouldn't be) stored in persistent memory.
Exactly. Smiley
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Thanks, n0nce.  I've been waiting for your review of Batch 2, and you did a great job.
Sorry for taking so long! Wink

No problem, I wasn't in a hurry anyway.  I'll be ordering one this month, but realistically I don't need it.  I've been really pleased with my ColdCard which I purchased the past summer, and I also have both flavors of Trezor's wallets, so I feel pretty confident in my security.  The Passport does have some features which I would appreciate and can easily see replacing the ColdCard as my daily driver.


I'm way more comfortable using a more complex device password and more complex passphrase on this, due to being so comfortable and quick to enter them.
It's been over a month since I played with the simulator, and I don't remember if I messed around with passphrases.  Is entering passphrases similar to typing on a keypad the way we used to when texting on flip phones?  I know there's a "predictive" text feature for entering seed phrases, but those words are drawn from a list so I don't imagine that would work for passphrases with dispersed capital letters and special characters.
It's not T9. So, not 'predictive'. I did have phones that either didn't have T9 or where it didn't work; therefore this method of clicking a key multiple times to reach the desired letter, was familiar to me. You have a dedicated key that cycles the keyboard through lower-case, upper-case and numbers.

Sounds like the same way passphrases are entered into the ColdCard.  It's not the worst thing, but I do have some long, complex passphrases and I am prone to making errors.  Undecided


Also, is there any reason there has to be a ten account limit?
This is weird, but it begs the question: What constitutes an "Account?"  Most software and hardware wallets create accounts by taking the next derivation path in the sequence, but then later you mentioned that the Passport allows custom derivation paths.
An account is just another derivation path. You can choose any derivation path you like, but only have 10 accounts 'active' at one time. If you don't need one anymore, you can delete it and add another one. The 'deleted' account can obviously be retrieved back by opening a 'new' account with that same old derivation path.

I'm pretty sure this is to make the device more responsive. I noticed that I can sign a transaction for my second account even when opening the camera from the first account page; probably, the device checks by itself which private key is needed to sign the PSBT. This makes it more convenient / compensates for user error. However, I can imagine that if you allowed to have hundreds of accounts open at one time, it could slow down the process, due to having to find the right account to sign the PSBT in question.

That makes sense.  meerabhai's comment about account limits had me confused since I expected accounts to be handled by derivation paths.


Is there a limit to the number of passphrases you can use?
I don't think so, no.

That also makes sense and it's what I would expect since passphrases aren't (or shouldn't be) stored in persistent memory.
hero member
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Thanks, n0nce.  I've been waiting for your review of Batch 2, and you did a great job.
Sorry for taking so long! Wink

I'm way more comfortable using a more complex device password and more complex passphrase on this, due to being so comfortable and quick to enter them.
It's been over a month since I played with the simulator, and I don't remember if I messed around with passphrases.  Is entering passphrases similar to typing on a keypad the way we used to when texting on flip phones?  I know there's a "predictive" text feature for entering seed phrases, but those words are drawn from a list so I don't imagine that would work for passphrases with dispersed capital letters and special characters.
It's not T9. So, not 'predictive'. I did have phones that either didn't have T9 or where it didn't work; therefore this method of clicking a key multiple times to reach the desired letter, was familiar to me. You have a dedicated key that cycles the keyboard through lower-case, upper-case and numbers.

Also, is there any reason there has to be a ten account limit?
This is weird, but it begs the question: What constitutes an "Account?"  Most software and hardware wallets create accounts by taking the next derivation path in the sequence, but then later you mentioned that the Passport allows custom derivation paths.
An account is just another derivation path. You can choose any derivation path you like, but only have 10 accounts 'active' at one time. If you don't need one anymore, you can delete it and add another one. The 'deleted' account can obviously be retrieved back by opening a 'new' account with that same old derivation path.

I'm pretty sure this is to make the device more responsive. I noticed that I can sign a transaction for my second account even when opening the camera from the first account page; probably, the device checks by itself which private key is needed to sign the PSBT. This makes it more convenient / compensates for user error. However, I can imagine that if you allowed to have hundreds of accounts open at one time, it could slow down the process, due to having to find the right account to sign the PSBT in question.

Is there a limit to the number of passphrases you can use?
I don't think so, no.
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Thanks, n0nce.  I've been waiting for your review of Batch 2, and you did a great job.

I'm way more comfortable using a more complex device password and more complex passphrase on this, due to being so comfortable and quick to enter them.

It's been over a month since I played with the simulator, and I don't remember if I messed around with passphrases.  Is entering passphrases similar to typing on a keypad the way we used to when texting on flip phones?  I know there's a "predictive" text feature for entering seed phrases, but those words are drawn from a list so I don't imagine that would work for passphrases with dispersed capital letters and special characters.

This is actually one of the few complaints I have about the ColdCard; to type in passphrases you need to scroll through the whole alphabet, numbers, and the list of special characters to get a passphrase entered.  It can take several minutes to do so carefully with my more complex phrases.

Also, is there any reason there has to be a ten account limit?

This is weird, but it begs the question: What constitutes an "Account?"  Most software and hardware wallets create accounts by taking the next derivation path in the sequence, but then later you mentioned that the Passport allows custom derivation paths.  Is there a limit to the number of passphrases you can use?
hero member
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I just had a look at what's been going on in the GitHub v2.0.5 developer branch and it seems they're working hard on the camera, but in general put in a ton of work, comparing to v2.0.4.
Yet another point for open-source: you get to see what they're working on, what they changed and what kind of progress they're making.
Maybe they saw your review and listen to suggestions you gave them Wink
I didn't get a reply to my questions (in the start post), so I'm not sure. Cheesy

How is your Passport camera working now with batch2 and for scanning QR codes?
The camera is always the same; the review was made with v2.0.4 and the v2.0.5 hasn't been released yet. I will try it whenever they upload a beta release.

However it was somewhat fixed with the latest Sparrow release. The animated QR codes contain less data each, making it easier for the camera to recognize them.

They are probably trying to improve something and maybe even preparing for some new batches that are coming in future.
I hope that they can do a 'budget batch' next and keep selling Batch 2, focusing on polishing the firmware instead.
legendary
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I just had a look at what's been going on in the GitHub v2.0.5 developer branch and it seems they're working hard on the camera, but in general put in a ton of work, comparing to v2.0.4.
Yet another point for open-source: you get to see what they're working on, what they changed and what kind of progress they're making.
Maybe they saw your review and listen to suggestions you gave them Wink
How is your Passport camera working now with batch2 and for scanning QR codes?
They are probably trying to improve something and maybe even preparing for some new batches that are coming in future.
hero member
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I just had a look at what's been going on in the GitHub v2.0.5 developer branch and it seems they're working hard on the camera, but in general put in a ton of work, comparing to v2.0.4.
Yet another point for open-source: you get to see what they're working on, what they changed and what kind of progress they're making.

  • We can see here that various changes to the camera parameters, like resolution and framebuffer have been made.
  • Some work on the mono version of the firmware (for the Founders Edition): here, here and many other commits.
  • I don't have the full overview of the codebase, but it seems to me that this will allow either users to zoom in / out or it's just to make changing camera size easier in the software. Anyhow; more camera work being done.
  • It will also be possible to modify the screen brightness of any QR code. I believe so far, that only worked for transactions (PSBTs), but not e.g. for the setup data that you can send to your software wallet client through a QR.
  • It also seems like you will be able to navigate from the last card in the menu to the first, without going back manually through every page, by 'looping' over.
  • There is also some new documentation about generating a developer public key and uploading it to the device; I did it previously on my own and it wasn't hard, but I can see how this comes in handy if you've never done such thing before.
  • I'm not a fan of how they use printf - debugging! Cheesy
  • I hope this was just for debugging and will be changed back immediately. Shocked Why would they switch to MCU RNG instead of using the Avalanche noise circuit?
  • Apparently, you will also be able to view your active seed phrase when displaying your seed words: here.
  
There are also tons and tons of bug fixes; most of the bugs mentioned I've never experienced, though. I'm still excited to follow the progress and see how the v2.0.5 release will turn out. Smiley
hero member
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Little PSA here. I already mentioned that you can get basically 10% off by buying CoinCards gift cards for the Foundation Devices shop.
Now they're also available on the (probably more popular) Bitrefill website and in the The Bitcoin Company app.

Note that in the latter 2, that's in form of a 'cashback', which (as far as I know) cannot be withdrawn.
So you'd spend e.g. $260 on a Passport and get $26 in Bitrefill rewards balance that you could use to buy an Amazon gift card or whatever you like. You don't just get to pay 234$.

Also do note that anything I post is unsponsored, unaffiliated, and I gain nothing from these links (hover / copy to check Wink). Just want to make sure in case it's not obvious..
legendary
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Just a side note - some companies do have a marketing strategy to run some campaigns at a loss. See the recent Pixel phones that have lower price tags than similar phones due to the fact that they prefer to loose some money on each sale but reach a wider audience and attract more customers to their platform. There's also the example where supermarkets have the so called "loss leaders
n0nce had a good idea that Foundation could make big discounts for improved Foundations edition.
This could be similar like Google is doing with their Pixel line, they have regular and pro version, but later they release version A that usually has cheaper materials and it's smaller in size.
I think that Samsung phones has a lot of budget phones they lose money on, but biggest profit is coming from their flagship models.
hero member
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Also, is there any reason there has to be a ten account limit?
Does one account need to be funded before you can create a 2nd and 3rd one or can I simply jump to the 7th one if I wanted to? Maybe if at least one address from the first 10 accounts has been funded, you get a new set of 10 accounts or something like that. But if not, I am sure that adding a passphrase opens up new account possibilities.
I'm pretty sure you can just remove an 'account' (just a different derivation path) - no matter if funded or not - and add a different one. You can always add the removed account back and sign transactions from it.
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