Topic: Freedom is ... - page 4. (Read 14409 times)

It must be nice to all repeat each other.  Its like an echo chamber.  Don't worry, I got enough for all of you.

I point these things out because they would persist in both systems.

I mean seriously, that's my main beef with your posts too.

Why do you continually point at the failures of the current system in an attempt to refute the one we advocate?

No. It's a symptom of the problem we just both agreed on. Advertising has minimal effect on me because I studied it's effect and try to be self aware about my actions. Plus because I studied it I do my best to avoid it (thank luck we have adblock  )

1.  I don't think all profit is monetary.  I don't but that is the common message these days and many people fall into herd mentality. 

2.  Advertising is a problem.  We don't need the complete commercialization of our society of lives.   I didn't volunteer for that but it is forced on my everywhere.  There are many South America cities where they have outlawed billboards and they are much more pleasant to walk around and they have a vibrant commercial district with annual growth of their lower and middle class.

3.  At this point, most children and most schools.  If they change, they are still getting the same type of schooling so there is not escape unless you have money for a private boarding school.  Most parents are two busy running around to make one or two incomes provide for their family to even be that involved with their childs schooling.  Its tough out there. 

Now we have an area of agreement we can build from.   I agree so much.  I actually want to teach a class on "how to think 101" & "critical analysis". 

What makes you think that only profit would drive everyone? For that matter, what makes you think that all profit is monetary?

Yes, that's called advertising. It's not a problem.

Which children? At what school? And what's keeping the parents from switching schools, once they see what's happening?

Yes, I believe some form of influence especially ones that can be only performed if you have lots of capital are bad and harmful.  It is a case by case basis so I can not blanket all influence and propaganda.  Let me say that currently, a majority of it is bad and harmful.  Currently.

People aren't being taught how to think only what to think. This is the number one problem the current education system has, kids never learn that if they want to think correctly, i.e. think in a way that will yield the best possible resaults they need to correctly apply reason/logic and empirical observation.

Instead kids are bombarded with facts that they must memorize in order to pass a test, not to mention that while being taught these fact they are also subtly being taught obedience to authority and the fallacious virtue of a violent state.

Whoa, watch yourself.   Don't think that to agree with AnCap makes your intelligent and to disagree means the opposite.  That would definitely tell me something about your intelligence level in the discussion of philosophy and dissent.

I will allow you to retract your statement.



D

Well yes that's what I mean.. I was talking about an AnCap society not being possible with unintelligent people, the framework of course is but such a framework could never lead to an actual AnCap society because if people are unintelligent they'll resort back to violence to enforce their stupidity sooner rather than later and the society would dissolve into what we have today, tyranny of the majority.

Ok, from how you informed me of the workings I agree.


So how do we get people that are not to this level, to this level?   I think about this at least once a day and have some ideas, but nothing stands out.   When you say educated, what areas do we need to improve the current education?   What subjects do they need more education of?

If ancap is only compatible with intelligent people then we should stop talking about it because it will always be an ideal and could never really exist. But ancap is compatible with the unintelligent, they would just be worse off. Maybe that's why the unintelligent argue against ancap...

Well then.. you're problem is not with AnCap but with unintelligent, undeveloped and uneducated people.

Dalkore, AnCap is only compatible with intelligent, modern and educated people.

So unless you have such people, no one here is arguing you can have an AnCap society. And if you do have such people no one here will believe any of your problems would actually be problems.

@ Hazek - You are entitled to narrow a value-judgement to just if you don't force someone.  But there is quite a bit of harm that happens and people don't know it happens and the people that perpetrate that harm will still exist in AnCap as they do now, just in AnCap there will be even less oversight than there is today which is virtually nothing. 

Honestly I have nothing against AnCap as a concept, but we will need to fill it with humans at some point to make it real and that is the point where these other issues I am bringing up will come into play and really make like more of a living hell than today and its getting worse. 

Don't think I am pessimistic either, I am an optimist and quite a happy fellow.   I just know how people have been conditioned and that would not lend to the types of behaviors you would need to have AnCap succeed in the manner that people in general would see their daily life improve. 

First off, I am not complaining.   I am having a discussion where I am in disagreement with some core points.  

Foundations
NGO
Endowments
Dedications
Scholarships
Funded Research
Advertising
Movies
Books
Screenplays
TV Shows
Radio Shows
Political Movements
Pornography
Celebrities
etc....

There is the list without Government.   Political Movements stays because even without Government, people will still lobby each other about the issues that affect them.

Why is it harmful?   Well having everyone operate only for consumption of goods and profit makes a pretty thin culture.  So the first example would be a business person that does only want to increase his wealth, he might fund projects that sway people to follow a trend in which he produces for and makes a profit.  Maybe he has a particular view of the world and believes that is the only correct manner, then he may use his wealth and influence to get "experts" to agree with him and indoctrinate the children into this way of thinking before they have had time to mentally develop and experience the world first hand to make up their own mind.

You can already see this on a daily basis, very similar messages.   Consume this, be like this, approve this, your not complete unless you drive this, idolize this, etc....  

You can wear the blinders if you want but I am fully aware of the influencers and messages at play.  You may want to focus you energy against government but just as you have said (not you but others), government is used as a tool.  A tool by whom?

 

Nothing wrong if they don't use violence to enforce their will upon others except in self defense.


That's corporatism not anarcho-capitalism.


Nothing wrong if it doesn't defraud anyone or using violence against anyone in order to provide it.


That's corporatism not anarcho-capitalism.


Nothing wrong if it doesn't defraud anyone or using violence against anyone in order to provide it.


Nothing wrong if it doesn't defraud anyone or using violence against anyone in order to provide it.


Nothing wrong if it doesn't defraud anyone or using violence against anyone in order to provide it.


Nothing wrong if it doesn't defraud anyone or using violence against anyone in order to provide it. If you don't like it don't watch it.


Same.


Same.


Same.


Same.


Same. BTW in all of these only in corporatism someone with opposing ideas is NOT allowed to freely produce and distribute their own advertising, movies, books, screenplays, tv shows, radio shows ect.


That's corporatism not anarcho-capitalism.


Just  



ect WHAT?! You have yet to formulate a valid objection to AnCap.

And how many of those can be done without government?
And what's so wrong about the ones that are left?