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Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 57. (Read 262354 times)

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
February 24, 2015, 11:38:22 AM
No major activity from SecondMarket during last 3 months. Even these big guys feeling bearish ?
Or could be no-one wants to invest in a fund that doesn't currently permit redemptions.

Will redemptions resume once shares are listed at OTCQX?  Or will clients have to look for Greater Fools in order to get their money back?

Can anyone guessxplain why redemptions *had* to be suspended while negotiating the OTCQX listing?
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 250
February 24, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
No major activity from SecondMarket during last 3 months. Even these big guys feeling bearish ?

Or could be no-one wants to invest in a fund that doesn't currently permit redemptions.

And, with things like new Coinbase exchange, easier to take large positions directly.
sr. member
Activity: 300
Merit: 250
February 24, 2015, 10:40:21 AM
No major activity from SecondMarket during last 3 months. Even these big guys feeling bearish ?
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
February 20, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
Update. I missed a few days but there was no movement anyway

Also thanks for the 0.16354143BTC or 40USD donation!
hero member
Activity: 833
Merit: 1001
February 13, 2015, 11:05:14 AM
looks more like a ticking time bomb to me...  Cheesy sooner or later...

taken from their disclaimer page, i'd love to get more insight on what exactly they mean by those statements:
The BIT and its managers or advisors may rely on the trading expertise and experience of third-party managers or advisors, the identity of which may not be fully disclosed to investors.
The BIT may involve a complex tax structure, which should be reviewed carefully, and may involve structures or strategies that may cause delays in important tax information being sent to investors.
The BIT’s fees and expenses−which may be substantial regardless of any positive return− will offset the BIT’s trading profits.
The BIT and its managers/advisors may be subject to various conflicts of interest.


Update. Growing very slowly

"Smart money"   Grin
sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 251
February 12, 2015, 03:03:11 PM
So that's an average investment of about 136.000 USD/day since inception. While an inflation rate of 3600 BTC/day corresponds to 792.000 USD/day at todays prices. [ ... ] I was just looking at the plots in your graph though, but I shouldn't be off by that much.

No need to read the graphs for that: the number of coins that they held and bought, day by day, was tabulated by @jl2012.  See page 1 of this thread.  Only the last plot, the Est. Accum. Investment, is not in the table; but it is easily computed from it.


I was a bit unclear. I was really only reading from the graphs for your "Estimated Accumulated Investment" stat when I wanted to disregard the 2013 data that didn't really seem representative of the current market.

My estimate was that the point for January 1st 2014 had about 34 million in accumulated USD investment. And that should be close enough for my calculations.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
February 12, 2015, 02:48:21 PM
So that's an average investment of about 136.000 USD/day since inception. While an inflation rate of 3600 BTC/day corresponds to 792.000 USD/day at todays prices. [ ... ] I was just looking at the plots in your graph though, but I shouldn't be off by that much.

No need to read the graphs for that: the number of coins that they held and bought, day by day, was tabulated by @jl2012.  See page 1 of this thread.  Only the last plot, the Est. Accum. Investment, is not in the table; but it is easily computed from it.

sr. member
Activity: 323
Merit: 251
February 12, 2015, 01:54:59 PM
Here is an update of the plot of @jl2012's data that I posted last April:


[ Blame the forum admins if the image shows truncated; click on it for the full-size version. ]

The first four plots are taken from the posted tables.  

The fifth plot ("Est. Accum. Investment", purple) was computed by me: it is the estimated net dollar amount that was invested by clients, assuming that each change from one day to the next was either all investment or (rarely) all liquidation.  With this assumption, since the foundation until today, clients appear to have have invested ~68 M USD in the fund, while the value of all the bitcoins held by it is ~30 M USD.

Note the four large investments last November, corresponding to 6000-7000 BTC each.
So that's an average investment of about 136.000 USD/day since inception. While an inflation rate of 3600 BTC/day corresponds to 792.000 USD/day at todays prices.

So if their historical trend continues, it means that Secondmarket can be "expected" to buy about 17% of the daily minted coins.

Of course, your graph seems to suggest that the investment demand was a lot higher the first few months, and seems to have been fairly constant on average since about 2014. If I disregard the 2013 data I get an expected investment rate of about 10% of minted coins at todays prices.

I was just looking at the plots in your graph though, but I shouldn't be off by that much.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
February 12, 2015, 01:22:41 PM
Here is an update of the plot of @jl2012's data that I posted last April:


[ Blame the forum admins if the image shows truncated; click on it for the full-size version. ]

The first four plots are taken from the posted tables.  

The fifth plot ("Est. Accum. Investment", purple) was computed by me: it is the estimated net dollar amount that was invested by clients, assuming that each change from one day to the next was either all investment or (rarely) all liquidation.  With this assumption, since the foundation until today, clients appear to have have invested ~68 M USD in the fund, while the value of all the bitcoins held by it is ~30 M USD.

Note the four large investments last November, corresponding to 6000-7000 BTC each.
hero member
Activity: 538
Merit: 500
February 12, 2015, 11:02:43 AM
Update. Growing very slowly

"Smart money"   Grin
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
February 12, 2015, 10:47:34 AM
Update. Growing very slowly
legendary
Activity: 961
Merit: 1000
January 27, 2015, 05:36:53 PM
English is not my native language, so help me out: what, exactly, do you mean by "delighted to stay the course," and how has it been substantially different from "enduring a [~70%] loss"?
Thx.
Ah, now it makes sense.  "Delighted to stay the course" means that I have content with my current position and have no plans to make any big changes.  I will stay on the course/path I am already on.  I will not change to a different path.

It would be disingenuous to ever delight in enduring a loss.  Anyone claiming to be delighted with a loss would be insincere.

One can endure a loss while still being delighted to stay the course.

Aha, "delighted" means "content."  Tricky language, your English.

Quality trolling.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1111
January 26, 2015, 09:21:21 PM
update. nothing interesting since last update
sr. member
Activity: 248
Merit: 250
January 26, 2015, 08:04:45 PM
Doesn't look like it.  I get 135,461 vs last on Jan 13 of 135,351.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
January 26, 2015, 02:21:35 PM
Any change since 2015-01-13?  Thanks...
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006
January 26, 2015, 12:39:37 PM
bump
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
January 14, 2015, 12:56:58 PM
English is not my native language, so help me out: what, exactly, do you mean by "delighted to stay the course," and how has it been substantially different from "enduring a [~70%] loss"?
Thx.
Ah, now it makes sense.  "Delighted to stay the course" means that I have content with my current position and have no plans to make any big changes.  I will stay on the course/path I am already on.  I will not change to a different path.

It would be disingenuous to ever delight in enduring a loss.  Anyone claiming to be delighted with a loss would be insincere.

One can endure a loss while still being delighted to stay the course.

Aha, "delighted" means "content."  Tricky language, your English.
hero member
Activity: 709
Merit: 503
January 14, 2015, 12:54:05 PM
English is not my native language, so help me out: what, exactly, do you mean by "delighted to stay the course," and how has it been substantially different from "enduring a [~70%] loss"?
Thx.
Ah, now it makes sense.  "Delighted to stay the course" means that I have content with my current position and have no plans to make any big changes.  I will stay on the course/path I am already on.  I will not change to a different path.

It would be disingenuous to ever delight in enduring a loss.  Anyone claiming to be delighted with a loss would be insincere.

One can endure a loss while still being delighted to stay the course.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 254
January 14, 2015, 12:47:02 PM
Lol, I take back everything I said--Bitcoiners are not the happiest people.
But I see how making an unrelated "investment" where you allegedly made money would make you delighted with this winner.

  ~Happy Investing!
... "delighted to stay the course" is different than "delighted to endure a loss".  Is English not your best language or are you deliberately misconstruing?

English is not my native language, so help me out: what, exactly, do you mean by "delighted to stay the course," and how has it been substantially different from "enduring a [~70%] loss"?
Thx.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 1003
January 14, 2015, 12:46:10 PM
OK, sorry, I did not mean that.  The point is that the money that went into SM will not come out again.  Wouldn't it be like this project of mine?
Oh.  I fully expect the money I put in through SM will indeed come out again someday.  Your "project" is clearly fraud and not like Bitcoin or SM at all.  Well, I suppose SM or even Bitcoin could turn out to be frauds but so far I doubt it.  Do you have evidence that either are indeed frauds?
Never said they are frauds.  Unlike my "plan", I am sure that everything was clearly spelled out in the prospectus, and investors were fully aware of the risks.
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