GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 59.

Chef Ramsay

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Quote from: cr1776 on January 10, 2015, 09:05:11 PM

Quote from: skivrmt on January 10, 2015, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: seriouscoin on January 10, 2015, 09:08:45 AM

Quote from: BitAddict on January 07, 2015, 06:55:34 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 07, 2015, 02:07:57 AM

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

It doesn't matter because average Joe don't know that.
And even if average Joe want to hold his coins in a cold wallet it is usually expensive and/or hard to understand how to do it and if you are fully secure or not.

Once standard wallets are easy, 100% fully secure by default and cheap or free, then average Joe will be able to enter.

Anyway average Joe don't need bitcoin for 99% of normal life transactions. So there is no point for them to buy, only for speculating.

Stupid, banks got robbed all the time, yet ppl still use it. Stop saying nonsense idiot. A BTC exchange is always targeted by hackers. An avg Joe isnt. With hardware wallet, an avg Joe dont even need to know how. Just like you dont even have to know how to fix a car to drive one.

Dumbest shit i've read from you recently. I bet you're shorting huh?

Terrible example of course. When banks get robbed you don't lose your money, insurance covers your funds. Gox didn't have insurance. So as soon as Bitstamp, BTC-e, etc receive insurance please let me know. Coinbase has insurance as a fyi.

Yeah, when banks get robbed, you don't lose your money. Just ask Cyprus. :-)
See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/my-bank-accounts-got-robbed-by-european-commission-over-700k-is-lost-160292. I guess it just depends on if the robber has government backing...

Insurance will be key for Bitcoin businesses holding coins, you are right. Coinbase is a good example of the right way to do it.

I recall reading/hearing that when Xapo was relatively new that they had some form of insurance for their customers, not sure if it was their vault or through their debit card but is was nice to see another place that newcomers could start from and feel comfortable with. Just to state the obvious, most of the early adopting folks take pride in their knowledge to be able to bank themselves but the masses will only care about some entity handling their funds for them safely and being able to use bitcoin for its benefits of fast usage and the ability to obtain discounts by using it.

cr1776

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Quote from: skivrmt on January 10, 2015, 01:29:47 PM

Quote from: seriouscoin on January 10, 2015, 09:08:45 AM

Quote from: BitAddict on January 07, 2015, 06:55:34 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 07, 2015, 02:07:57 AM

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

It doesn't matter because average Joe don't know that.
And even if average Joe want to hold his coins in a cold wallet it is usually expensive and/or hard to understand how to do it and if you are fully secure or not.

Once standard wallets are easy, 100% fully secure by default and cheap or free, then average Joe will be able to enter.

Anyway average Joe don't need bitcoin for 99% of normal life transactions. So there is no point for them to buy, only for speculating.

Stupid, banks got robbed all the time, yet ppl still use it. Stop saying nonsense idiot. A BTC exchange is always targeted by hackers. An avg Joe isnt. With hardware wallet, an avg Joe dont even need to know how. Just like you dont even have to know how to fix a car to drive one.

Dumbest shit i've read from you recently. I bet you're shorting huh?

Terrible example of course. When banks get robbed you don't lose your money, insurance covers your funds. Gox didn't have insurance. So as soon as Bitstamp, BTC-e, etc receive insurance please let me know. Coinbase has insurance as a fyi.

Yeah, when banks get robbed, you don't lose your money. Just ask Cyprus. :-)
See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/my-bank-accounts-got-robbed-by-european-commission-over-700k-is-lost-160292. I guess it just depends on if the robber has government backing...

Insurance will be key for Bitcoin businesses holding coins, you are right. Coinbase is a good example of the right way to do it.

skivrmt

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Activity: 994

Merit: 501

Quote from: seriouscoin on January 10, 2015, 09:08:45 AM

Quote from: BitAddict on January 07, 2015, 06:55:34 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 07, 2015, 02:07:57 AM

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

It doesn't matter because average Joe don't know that.
And even if average Joe want to hold his coins in a cold wallet it is usually expensive and/or hard to understand how to do it and if you are fully secure or not.

Once standard wallets are easy, 100% fully secure by default and cheap or free, then average Joe will be able to enter.

Anyway average Joe don't need bitcoin for 99% of normal life transactions. So there is no point for them to buy, only for speculating.

Stupid, banks got robbed all the time, yet ppl still use it. Stop saying nonsense idiot. A BTC exchange is always targeted by hackers. An avg Joe isnt. With hardware wallet, an avg Joe dont even need to know how. Just like you dont even have to know how to fix a car to drive one.

Dumbest shit i've read from you recently. I bet you're shorting huh?

Terrible example of course. When banks get robbed you don't lose your money, insurance covers your funds. Gox didn't have insurance. So as soon as Bitstamp, BTC-e, etc receive insurance please let me know. Coinbase has insurance as a fyi.

seriouscoin

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Quote from: BitAddict on January 07, 2015, 06:55:34 AM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 07, 2015, 02:07:57 AM

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

It doesn't matter because average Joe don't know that.
And even if average Joe want to hold his coins in a cold wallet it is usually expensive and/or hard to understand how to do it and if you are fully secure or not.

Once standard wallets are easy, 100% fully secure by default and cheap or free, then average Joe will be able to enter.

Anyway average Joe don't need bitcoin for 99% of normal life transactions. So there is no point for them to buy, only for speculating.

Stupid, banks got robbed all the time, yet ppl still use it. Stop saying nonsense idiot. A BTC exchange is always targeted by hackers. An avg Joe isnt. With hardware wallet, an avg Joe dont even need to know how. Just like you dont even have to know how to fix a car to drive one.

Dumbest shit i've read from you recently. I bet you're shorting huh?

jl2012

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update

BitAddict

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on January 07, 2015, 02:07:57 AM

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

It doesn't matter because average Joe don't know that.
And even if average Joe want to hold his coins in a cold wallet it is usually expensive and/or hard to understand how to do it and if you are fully secure or not.

Once standard wallets are easy, 100% fully secure by default and cheap or free, then average Joe will be able to enter.

Anyway average Joe don't need bitcoin for 99% of normal life transactions. So there is no point for them to buy, only for speculating.

marcus_of_augustus

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Activity: 3920

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: smoothie on January 07, 2015, 12:29:38 AM

Quote from: BitAddict on January 06, 2015, 06:45:30 PM

Investors are not buying anymore (for now) in this fund because:
1. They got fully loaded for a while in the last FBI auction
2. They are waiting for more FBI auctions (still 94k coins remaining)
3. Price is going down and no one likes to catch a knife (Most of investors are already at a loss, or big loss)
4. They mostly FOMO buy when there is a big rally going on
5. Fees are high (but OK if you don't understand bitcoin), but not being able to cashout when you want is just ridiculous.
6. This fund is now full of bagholders, if price keeps going down and bitcoin is not looking good when this launches the reaction could the opposite. A lot of investors trying to get out at the same time.
7. Bitcoin is having really bad press right now, "Worst investment 2014". And with Bitstamp hacked things are not going to improve. Investors will [rightly] think if one of the biggest bitcoin exchanges can't secure their bitcoins, average joe won't be able to do it (at least with current development).

That is a very good point. If the "pros" can't do it why should anyone else try?

... because the use-case for the 'pros' is completely different than your average user.

Not to mention the pro use-case you specifically refer to are the highest high volume trading accounts, interfacing with the legacy banking system and tens of thousands users, with hundreds of new ones signing up, withdrawing, depositing and transacting bitcoins 24 hours of every day since they opened.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: BitAddict on January 06, 2015, 06:45:30 PM

Investors are not buying anymore (for now) in this fund because:
1. They got fully loaded for a while in the last FBI auction
2. They are waiting for more FBI auctions (still 94k coins remaining)
3. Price is going down and no one likes to catch a knife (Most of investors are already at a loss, or big loss)
4. They mostly FOMO buy when there is a big rally going on
5. Fees are high (but OK if you don't understand bitcoin), but not being able to cashout when you want is just ridiculous.
6. This fund is now full of bagholders, if price keeps going down and bitcoin is not looking good when this launches the reaction could the opposite. A lot of investors trying to get out at the same time.
7. Bitcoin is having really bad press right now, "Worst investment 2014". And with Bitstamp hacked things are not going to improve. Investors will [rightly] think if one of the biggest bitcoin exchanges can't secure their bitcoins, average joe won't be able to do it (at least with current development).

That is a very good point. If the "pros" can't do it why should anyone else try?

gog1

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Activity: 756

Merit: 500

there's a little bit of buying today - very little

BitAddict

legendary

Activity: 1190

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Investors are not buying anymore (for now) in this fund because:
1. They got fully loaded for a while in the last FBI auction
2. They are waiting for more FBI auctions (still 94k coins remaining)
3. Price is going down and no one likes to catch a knife (Most of investors are already at a loss, or big loss)
4. They mostly FOMO buy when there is a big rally going on
5. Fees are high (but OK if you don't understand bitcoin), but not being able to cashout when you want is just ridiculous.
6. This fund is now full of bagholders, if price keeps going down and bitcoin is not looking good when this launches the reaction could the opposite. A lot of investors trying to get out at the same time.
7. Bitcoin is having really bad press right now, "Worst investment 2014". And with Bitstamp hacked things are not going to improve. Investors will [rightly] think if one of the biggest bitcoin exchanges can't secure their bitcoins, average joe won't be able to do it (at least with current development).

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: twiifm on January 04, 2015, 02:23:58 PM

If you've ever seen the movie Boiler Room.

Yes! Great movie...

twiifm

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on January 04, 2015, 09:51:46 AM

Slight correction about OTCQX?
https://twitter.com/LiquidXCoin/status/551620608275259392"

That's what I thought. Over The Counter and pink sheets are synonomous.

Its better than a totally unregulated exchange like bitfinex, et al. But still a lot of manipulation in penny stock land.

If you've ever seen the movie Boiler Room. That's badically the scene. Except nowadays theres a whole network of internet "stock promoters" involved.

I got scammed in pennystock before. Would touch any pink sheet security w a 10 ft pole

applesRyummy

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Quote from: N12 on January 04, 2015, 02:15:24 AM

Quote from: N12 on January 03, 2015, 01:15:36 PM

Quote from: skivrmt on January 03, 2015, 11:19:57 AM

No one has denied it for the simple reason it is true.

True til proven FUD IMO for this reason. Cheesy

Can't go wrong with that rule.

For what reason did they suspend redemption? Were they forced to? Because I'm sure their investors aren't too happy about this. With this sort of condition, who will buy more BTC at this fund?

Since we are speculating I would say that it has something to do with security issues or their ability to send bitcoin to an exchange to sell for fiat.

A not as bad scenario is that they are not sure they can trust any exchange to keep their investor's money safe and send them fiat for any sales, if this was the case they could allow their customers to redeem bitcoin and their customers could sell the bitcoin themselves

NotLambchop

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Quote from: N12 on January 04, 2015, 09:50:32 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on January 04, 2015, 09:48:09 AM

Quote from: rebuilder on January 04, 2015, 09:40:25 AM

Dumb question: If you can't liquidate your holdings, only sell them on secondary markets, how is buying on secondmarket now any smarter than buying on gox after their "withdrawal issues" started?

That is a rather indelicate question to ask. Just because the goxBTC were fetching 20% of face value in the bitcoinbuilder market, it does not mean that the smbitBTC will necessarily go the same way.

If you're implying what I initially thought you are implying: Damn, you're evil, man. Cheesy

Nicely worded, too Cheesy

JorgeStolfi

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Slight correction about OTCQX?
https://twitter.com/LiquidXCoin/status/551620608275259392"

N12

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Quote from: JorgeStolfi on January 04, 2015, 09:48:09 AM

Quote from: rebuilder on January 04, 2015, 09:40:25 AM

Dumb question: If you can't liquidate your holdings, only sell them on secondary markets, how is buying on secondmarket now any smarter than buying on gox after their "withdrawal issues" started?

That is a rather indelicate question to ask. Just because the goxBTC were fetching 20% of face value in the bitcoinbuilder market, it does not mean that the smbitBTC will necessarily go the same way.

If you're implying what I initially thought you are implying: Damn, you're evil, man. Cheesy

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: rebuilder on January 04, 2015, 09:40:25 AM

Dumb question: If you can't liquidate your holdings, only sell them on secondary markets, how is buying on secondmarket now any smarter than buying on gox after their "withdrawal issues" started?

That is a rather indelicate question to ask. Just because the goxBTC were fetching 20% of face value in the bitcoinbuilder market, it does not mean that the smbitBTC will necessarily go the same way.

rebuilder

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Dumb question: If you can't liquidate your holdings, only sell them on secondary markets, how is buying on secondmarket now any smarter than buying on gox after their "withdrawal issues" started?

jl2012

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JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: oda.krell on January 04, 2015, 09:25:55 AM

Yes, Jorge, I've read your unsubstantiated claim that you think it was single entity. More than once

Yeah, well, I cannot hide my skepticism about bitcoin and bitcoin entrepreneurs in general. Which is only growing the more I read (and not at all because of the price, which may even recover, I don't know).

Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 59. (Read 262379 times)