Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 78. (Read 262357 times)
Alright this is good, so the last week has been stable in terms of SecondMarket, and there even have been some buys. A good sign. I wonder whether the buying will increase as soon as the fall kicks in! What do you expect?
They haven't posted their actual XBT holdings since April 30, is that correct? (They used to post about once a month before that.)
Yes. Even they updated the slides they didn't update this number since April: http://www.bitcointrust.co/thank-you-for-your-information/
They haven't posted their actual XBT holdings since April 30, is that correct? (They used to post about once a month before that.)
Does anyone have a copy of their actual Terms of Service? I wonder whether they are required to hold all the clients' investment in XBT all the time? Or can they hold up to X% of it in USD or other liquid assets that, at current market price, would be equivalent to that much BTC (perhaps with an extra Y% of safety margin)?
Does anyone have a copy of their actual Terms of Service? I wonder whether they are required to hold all the clients' investment in XBT all the time? Or can they hold up to X% of it in USD or other liquid assets that, at current market price, would be equivalent to that much BTC (perhaps with an extra Y% of safety margin)?
Data from May to July 2014
| Date | NAV ($) | Net | Est | Est Net | Est New | Actual |
| spaceholder | Assets | Holding | Buying | Invest | Holding | |
| (M$) | (XBT) | (XBT) | (M$) | (XBT) | ||
| 29-Aug-14 | 49.74 | 53.82 | 106242 | 4 | 0.01 | |
| 28-Aug-14 | 50.08 | 54.18 | 106238 | 3 | 0.00 | |
| 27-Aug-14 | 50.46 | 54.59 | 106235 | -16 | 0.00 | |
| 26-Aug-14 | 49.81 | 53.89 | 106251 | 111 | 0.06 | |
| 25-Aug-14 | 49.45 | 53.44 | 106140 | -19 | 0.00 | |
| 22-Aug-14 | 50.44 | 54.51 | 106159 | -7 | 0.00 | |
| 21-Aug-14 | 50.95 | 55.06 | 106166 | 121 | 0.06 | |
| 20-Aug-14 | 48.34 | 52.18 | 106045 | 82 | 0.04 | |
| 19-Aug-14 | 46.48 | 50.13 | 105963 | -6 | 0.00 | |
| 18-Aug-14 | 45.20 | 48.75 | 105969 | -39 | -0.01 | |
| 15-Aug-14 | 49.20 | 53.07 | 106008 | 210 | 0.11 | |
| 14-Aug-14 | 50.33 | 54.18 | 105798 | 3 | 0.00 | |
| 13-Aug-14 | 53.51 | 57.60 | 105795 | -36 | -0.01 | |
| 12-Aug-14 | 55.94 | 60.23 | 105831 | 13 | 0.01 | |
| 11-Aug-14 | 56.99 | 61.35 | 105818 | 69 | 0.05 | |
| 8-Aug-14 | 58.05 | 62.44 | 105749 | -26 | -0.01 | |
| 7-Aug-14 | 57.37 | 61.72 | 105775 | -1766 | -1.03 | |
| 6-Aug-14 | 57.08 | 62.43 | 107541 | 13 | 0.01 | |
| 5-Aug-14 | 57.21 | 62.56 | 107528 | -17 | -0.01 | |
| 4-Aug-14 | 57.69 | 63.09 | 107545 | 72 | 0.06 | |
| 31-Jul-14 | 56.27 | 61.48 | 107473 | 4 | 0.01 | |
| 30-Jul-14 | 56.46 | 61.68 | 107469 | -7 | 0.00 | |
| 29-Jul-14 | 57.32 | 62.62 | 107476 | 141 | 0.08 | |
| 28-Jul-14 | 57.01 | 62.20 | 107335 | 49 | 0.04 | |
| 25-Jul-14 | 58.89 | 64.21 | 107286 | -6 | 0.00 | |
| 24-Jul-14 | 59.34 | 64.70 | 107292 | -7 | 0.00 | |
| 23-Jul-14 | 60.82 | 66.31 | 107299 | 200 | 0.13 | |
| 22-Jul-14 | 61.00 | 66.38 | 107099 | 122 | 0.08 | |
| 21-Jul-14 | 60.84 | 66.13 | 106977 | 30 | 0.04 | |
| 18-Jul-14 | 61.25 | 66.54 | 106947 | 3 | 0.00 | |
| 17-Jul-14 | 60.72 | 65.96 | 106944 | 43 | 0.03 | |
| 16-Jul-14 | 60.71 | 65.92 | 106901 | 397 | 0.25 | |
| 15-Jul-14 | 61.11 | 66.10 | 106504 | 3 | 0.00 | |
| 14-Jul-14 | 61.17 | 66.16 | 106501 | 59 | 0.05 | |
| 11-Jul-14 | 61.24 | 66.19 | 106442 | 43 | 0.04 | |
| 10-Jul-14 | 60.56 | 65.42 | 106399 | 53 | 0.03 | |
| 9-Jul-14 | 61.24 | 66.12 | 106346 | -269 | -0.16 | |
| 7-Jul-14 | 61.47 | 66.53 | 106615 | -7 | 0.01 | |
| 3-Jul-14 | 63.44 | 68.65 | 106622 | -55 | -0.03 | |
| 2-Jul-14 | 63.55 | 68.80 | 106677 | 397 | 0.26 | |
| 1-Jul-14 | 63.81 | 68.82 | 106280 | 82 | 0.06 | |
| 30-Jun-14 | 61.19 | 65.94 | 106198 | -19 | 0.00 | |
| 27-Jun-14 | 57.21 | 61.65 | 106217 | -6 | 0.00 | |
| 26-Jun-14 | 55.92 | 60.26 | 106223 | -7 | 0.00 | |
| 25-Jun-14 | 56.29 | 60.66 | 106230 | -16 | 0.00 | |
| 24-Jun-14 | 57.79 | 62.28 | 106246 | 52 | 0.03 | |
| 23-Jun-14 | 57.98 | 62.45 | 106194 | 20 | 0.02 | |
| 20-Jun-14 | 58.26 | 62.73 | 106174 | 63 | 0.04 | |
| 19-Jun-14 | 59.32 | 63.83 | 106111 | -16 | -0.01 | |
| 18-Jun-14 | 59.90 | 64.46 | 106127 | 33 | 0.03 | |
| 17-Jun-14 | 58.67 | 63.11 | 106094 | 3 | 0.00 | |
| 16-Jun-14 | 58.47 | 62.89 | 106091 | -29 | 0.00 | |
| 13-Jun-14 | 58.42 | 62.84 | 106120 | 92 | 0.05 | |
| 12-Jun-14 | 61.68 | 66.29 | 106028 | -6 | 0.00 | |
| 11-Jun-14 | 63.43 | 68.17 | 106034 | -27 | -0.01 | |
| 10-Jun-14 | 64.34 | 69.16 | 106061 | 4 | 0.01 | |
| 9-Jun-14 | 63.80 | 68.57 | 106057 | 50 | 0.04 | |
| 6-Jun-14 | 64.51 | 69.29 | 106007 | 3 | 0.01 | |
| 5-Jun-14 | 64.31 | 69.07 | 106004 | 53 | 0.04 | |
| 4-Jun-14 | 63.12 | 67.75 | 105951 | -46 | -0.03 | |
| 3-Jun-14 | 65.19 | 70.00 | 105997 | 299 | 0.20 | |
| 2-Jun-14 | 62.76 | 67.20 | 105698 | -88 | -0.04 | |
| 30-May-14 | 58.71 | 62.90 | 105786 | -6 | 0.00 | |
| 29-May-14 | 55.91 | 59.90 | 105792 | 131 | 0.07 | |
| 28-May-14 | 56.26 | 60.20 | 105661 | -65 | -0.03 | |
| 27-May-14 | 56.51 | 60.50 | 105726 | 320 | 0.20 | |
| 23-May-14 | 52.18 | 55.68 | 105406 | -7 | 0.00 | |
| 22-May-14 | 50.09 | 53.45 | 105413 | -16 | -0.01 | |
| 21-May-14 | 48.35 | 51.60 | 105429 | -26 | -0.01 | |
| 20-May-14 | 46.28 | 49.40 | 105455 | -46 | -0.02 | |
| 19-May-14 | 43.83 | 46.80 | 105501 | -49 | -0.01 | |
| 16-May-14 | 43.91 | 46.90 | 105550 | 63 | 0.03 | |
| 15-May-14 | 43.94 | 46.90 | 105487 | 369 | 0.16 | |
| 14-May-14 | 43.53 | 46.30 | 105118 | -66 | -0.03 | |
| 13-May-14 | 43.13 | 45.90 | 105184 | 93 | 0.04 | |
| 12-May-14 | 43.17 | 45.90 | 105091 | -108 | -0.04 | |
| 9-May-14 | 43.98 | 46.80 | 105199 | 3 | 0.01 | |
| 8-May-14 | 43.61 | 46.40 | 105196 | 152 | 0.07 | |
| 7-May-14 | 43.11 | 45.80 | 105044 | 4 | 0.01 | |
| 6-May-14 | 42.08 | 44.70 | 105040 | -27 | -0.01 | |
| 5-May-14 | 42.73 | 45.40 | 105067 | -98 | -0.04 | |
| 2-May-14 | 44.20 | 47.00 | 105165 | 53 | 0.03 | |
| 1-May-14 | 44.79 | 47.60 | 105112 | 1250 | 0.57 |
Grandma always said, never put all your eggs in one basket. 
Grandma: not rich
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/616685-diversification-is-protection-against-ignorance-it-makes-little-sense-if
Quote
Diversification is protection against ignorance. It makes little sense if you know what you are doing.
Buffet: rich
I'll listen to Buffet before I listen to Grandma concerning investing.
Little extra income? Do you understand the exponential function? :/
Over a long enough time horizon it's a guarentee.
You mean, exponential like the red line below? Over a long enough time horizon it's a guarentee.
Show me such a pattern in the S&P500 or any other broad index. dotcom bubble was for suckers
Little extra income? Do you understand the exponential function? :/
Over a long enough time horizon it's a guarentee.
You mean, exponential like the red line below? Over a long enough time horizon it's a guarentee.
I am not a sophisticated investor, never gave a thought to the stock market. My savings are in some investment fund offered by my bank. If I save enough, I may put it in real estate.
You don't have to be a sophisticated investor to just buy the S&P500. I guarantee that you'll comfortably outperform your silly bank by several percentage points annually at least over any reasonable period of time.[/quote]
I do not feel that the chance of extra income is worth the worry and hassle. It would not be much compared to my salary, anyway.
My younger son has a degree in Management, he invests his savings in stocks, long term. He was quite worried about my interest in bitcoin, afraid I could be tempted into investing in it.
89 bought yesterday
SM should cut its fees. Maybe the big buyers are waiting for the COIN offering...
89 bought yesterday
Jorge, I've followed your posts on several different topics here. Curious on your thoughts on the stock market in general? Not if it's going up or down, just overall thoughts? For example, do you have your retirement savings in a well balanced portfolio, stocks, bonds, real assets, alternative assets etc?
I am not a sophisticated investor, never gave a thought to the stock market. My savings are in some investment fund offered by my bank. If I save enough, I may put it in real estate.I do not believe in the apocalyptic scenarios that some paint, they are obviously used to market alternative investments like gold or bitcoin, and funds thereof. There will be crises, of course, but I am sure that stocks and the dollar will suffer less than bitcoin. People will continue to work,d buy things, and pay taxes. The companies that make those things will continue doing so, and the governments will continue to function.
You don't have to be a sophisticated investor to just buy the S&P500. I guarantee that you'll comfortably outperform your silly bank by several percentage points annually at least over any reasonable period of time. I wish I was a bank and people would invest money this blindly with me. It's like sleeping yourself to riches ...
Very true watchwood. But my question to Jorge was mainly to see how he may or may not relate Bitcoin to an investment. He's very anti Bitcoin, which is fine, we all have our opinions, I just like to see various people's reasons behind their thoughts.
People who have 80%+ of their "net worth" or investments in Bitcoin are simply gambling. Sure, if it goes to the moon, they might be rich. But there's a lot of risk. I think Bitcoin is a great alternative asset to hold in a well balanced portfolio, 5-10% (tops) of someone's overall holdings. Grandma always said, never put all your eggs in one basket.
Or put all your eggs in one basket and then WATCH THAT FUCKING BASKET!!111
I'm sure her advice on attaining happiness has some value. Advice on attaining wealth is something else.
Was your grandma rich?
Still alive actually! 87 I think. And no, she's not rich, but I'm sure she'd say she's very happy.
Was your grandma rich?
Jorge, I've followed your posts on several different topics here. Curious on your thoughts on the stock market in general? Not if it's going up or down, just overall thoughts? For example, do you have your retirement savings in a well balanced portfolio, stocks, bonds, real assets, alternative assets etc?
I am not a sophisticated investor, never gave a thought to the stock market. My savings are in some investment fund offered by my bank. If I save enough, I may put it in real estate.I do not believe in the apocalyptic scenarios that some paint, they are obviously used to market alternative investments like gold or bitcoin, and funds thereof. There will be crises, of course, but I am sure that stocks and the dollar will suffer less than bitcoin. People will continue to work,d buy things, and pay taxes. The companies that make those things will continue doing so, and the governments will continue to function.
You don't have to be a sophisticated investor to just buy the S&P500. I guarantee that you'll comfortably outperform your silly bank by several percentage points annually at least over any reasonable period of time. I wish I was a bank and people would invest money this blindly with me. It's like sleeping yourself to riches ...
Very true watchwood. But my question to Jorge was mainly to see how he may or may not relate Bitcoin to an investment. He's very anti Bitcoin, which is fine, we all have our opinions, I just like to see various people's reasons behind their thoughts.
People who have 80%+ of their "net worth" or investments in Bitcoin are simply gambling. Sure, if it goes to the moon, they might be rich. But there's a lot of risk. I think Bitcoin is a great alternative asset to hold in a well balanced portfolio, 5-10% (tops) of someone's overall holdings. Grandma always said, never put all your eggs in one basket.
Of course FINCEN will issue an advisory warning against Bitcoin. Anything the government cannot control they will advise against, its fairly simple.
Well, maybe, but there is also the little matter that bitcoin is a highly uncertain investment that has attracted an army of scammers and thieves. FINCEN's mission includes warning people about those risks. I didn't see anything wrong with that report.
Jorge, I've followed your posts on several different topics here. Curious on your thoughts on the stock market in general? Not if it's going up or down, just overall thoughts? For example, do you have your retirement savings in a well balanced portfolio, stocks, bonds, real assets, alternative assets etc?
I am not a sophisticated investor, never gave a thought to the stock market. My savings are in some investment fund offered by my bank. If I save enough, I may put it in real estate.I do not believe in the apocalyptic scenarios that some paint, they are obviously used to market alternative investments like gold or bitcoin, and funds thereof. There will be crises, of course, but I am sure that stocks and the dollar will suffer less than bitcoin. People will continue to work,d buy things, and pay taxes. The companies that make those things will continue doing so, and the governments will continue to function.
You don't have to be a sophisticated investor to just buy the S&P500. I guarantee that you'll comfortably outperform your silly bank by several percentage points annually at least over any reasonable period of time. I wish I was a bank and people would invest money this blindly with me. It's like sleeping yourself to riches ...
Jorge, I've followed your posts on several different topics here. Curious on your thoughts on the stock market in general? Not if it's going up or down, just overall thoughts? For example, do you have your retirement savings in a well balanced portfolio, stocks, bonds, real assets, alternative assets etc?
I am not a sophisticated investor, never gave a thought to the stock market. My savings are in some investment fund offered by my bank. If I save enough, I may put it in real estate.I do not believe in the apocalyptic scenarios that some paint, they are obviously used to market alternative investments like gold or bitcoin, and funds thereof. There will be crises, of course, but I am sure that stocks and the dollar will suffer less than bitcoin. People will continue to work,d buy things, and pay taxes. The companies that make those things will continue doing so, and the governments will continue to function.
Of course FINCEN will issue an advisory warning against Bitcoin. Anything the government cannot control they will advise against, its fairly simple.
They issue a warning because they don't want to be responsible. This isn't just Bitcoin but rather anything non-mainstream. That's also why the police visit kids posting on Twitter that they are going to burn the school. Chances of them doing it are very small, but if the police doesn't finish and they do burn the school people will blame the police. It's all part of the big blame-game which helps our society to be so incredible inefficient and wasteful.
Isn't this a good time for a massive buy from SecondMarket?
The price is still falling, they will buy at a better situation.So the question is, why aren't people buying more SMBIT shares? Well, the value of 1 share (which is 1/10 of btcoin's market price, by definition) fell ~25% over the past month, and is again near the lowest it has been since November. Clients who buy fund shares now will be chained to them for six months. What will happen to the BTC price (and hence to the value of their investment) in those six months?
Add to that the FINCEN advisory ...
And then there is the matter that the BTC price is being determined by thousands of amateur day-traders in China. Would you trust your savings to them? I wonder if prospective clients are aware of this .
Jorge, I've followed your posts on several different topics here. Curious on your thoughts on the stock market in general? Not if it's going up or down, just overall thoughts? For example, do you have your retirement savings in a well balanced portfolio, stocks, bonds, real assets, alternative assets etc?
Of course FINCEN will issue an advisory warning against Bitcoin. Anything the government cannot control they will advise against, its fairly simple.
Why aren't people buying? Why weren't people buying the DOW in 2008 when it dropped below 7000? It's -very- hard for the average investor to buy when things are down. And yes, even the "professional" investor.
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