GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 80.

ensurance982

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Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 09:02:06 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 08:45:56 AM

Quote from: ensurance982 on August 08, 2014, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

Spot on (as usual). ETF listing will be a major chance, but it's just that: a chance. If demand doesn't match the offer at first, price will not do anything.

The *prospect* of the ETF is long priced in, the actual effect of buying pressure coming from it remains a possibility - a good one though, I'll admit.

Yeah I really think in the current state of Bitcoin that shuns all the good news that occur, an ETF would most likely cause a $15 rallye and then drop back $20... I guess they should launch in winter or when things have changed in Bitcoins ecosystem.

oda.krell

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Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 08:45:56 AM

Quote from: ensurance982 on August 08, 2014, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

Spot on (as usual). ETF listing will be a major chance, but it's just that: a chance. If demand doesn't match the offer at first, price will not do anything.

The *prospect* of the ETF is long priced in, the actual effect of buying pressure coming from it remains a possibility - a good one though, I'll admit.

ensurance982

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Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 08:45:56 AM

Quote from: ensurance982 on August 08, 2014, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched.

So SecondMarket basically tries catering to even bigger fish than COIN? I do believe we need investment options on every level of money. Bitcoin is still too small for the real big fishes at Wall Street, so we need smaller ones to make it bigger first. That's where we have to make sure there isn't a 'dry spot' where we run out of support.

skivrmt

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Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 08:45:56 AM

Quote from: ensurance982 on August 08, 2014, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker.

And has daily liquidity, and is cheaper, and and and. ETF will be WAY better than this.

N12

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Quote from: ensurance982 on August 08, 2014, 08:42:14 AM

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

The advantage of an ETF is that it is accessible not only to high-net worth individuals, at your regular broker. I think it'll help a lot, but it will depend a lot on the circumstances of when it is launched because the sentiment/price environment will dictate demand.

ensurance982

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Trust me!

Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

You may be right with that. But couldn't a real ETF be another investment vehicle serious investors want to use in order to get their Bitcoin? What are the advantages over SecondMarket in this case? (compared to e.g. the Winklevoss' COIN)

N12

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Quote from: oda.krell on August 08, 2014, 08:26:20 AM

Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

It's just wishful thinking as always, we already have plenty of non-exchange traded funds. People suck up the "200M within a year" figure as if the fund manager had any say in how demand will look like, or actually was a credible and non-biased authority. We already have a great barometer of this demand, and it's this thread. Try explaining that to those who need it to be true though.

edit: Oops, I only now noticed you were talking about ETFs, and not non-exchange traded funds. Still, lots of wishful thinking I've observed with regard to this GABI fund.

oda.krell

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Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

Looks like it. Should probably worry those who believe that the listing of an ETF automatically means new price surge.

mmitech

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Quote from: N12 on August 08, 2014, 06:31:03 AM

So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

I would understand buying when they get more demand, why would they ? doesn't make sense at this point.

N12

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So SecondMarket hasn't bought shit for over 3 months now.

CoinRocka

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Is it not possible that some corporation bought the $1M in BTC from BIT? Cool

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: solex on August 07, 2014, 09:25:17 PM

Quote from: derpinheimer on August 07, 2014, 09:13:02 PM

Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

These people seem to often buy high and sell low. China on a tear today.

In theory it is the SMBIT clients who decide when to buy and sell. But those XBT numbers presumably are "nominal" amounts of BTC that are assigned to client shares. The fund operators may have reserves of cash and BTC that they could use to buffer the client moves and get more favorable prices on the market.

The lack of data about the bitcoin economy is surprising (and annoying, and worrisome), the more so if we think that it is such a "computer-nerdy" object. The only meaningful numbers that are known with reasonable confidence are the current market price, the amount of coins that exist, and the amount of coins that the miners get each day. Every other important variable (such as the flow of cash and BTC into and out of the exchanges, the daily trade volumes, the daily transaction volume, total volume of e-payments, distribution of coins by country, etc.) are either unknown or meaningless.

solex

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Quote from: derpinheimer on August 07, 2014, 09:13:02 PM

Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

These people seem to often buy high and sell low. China on a tear today.

derpinheimer

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Wow, big sales yesterday. Interesting. Hopefully not a sign of things to come.

jl2012

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Quote from: Bitcopia on August 07, 2014, 08:59:23 PM

Any updates on purchasing?

Do you mean selling?

Bitcopia

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Any updates on purchasing?

wachtwoord

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Quote from: Mobius on August 03, 2014, 05:36:47 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on August 03, 2014, 05:54:47 AM

Quote from: Mobius on August 02, 2014, 06:01:17 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on July 31, 2014, 05:31:16 AM

They keep accumulating

I would say that is not necessarily true. If investors want to cash out then the trust will need to sell bitcoin. It is very similar to people holding their bitcoin at an exchange, just in much larger amounts.

Nah, this is aimed at long term investing while an account balance at an exchange is aimed at trading.

Yes the BTC investment trust is marketed towards longer term investors, and exchanges market themselves towards traders, however this does not mean that a long term investor is not allowed to use the investment trust, and does not mean that long term investors cannot use an exchange.

Of course it's allowed. It's also stupid so the amount of people doing it will be the minority.

Mobius

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Quote from: wachtwoord on August 03, 2014, 05:54:47 AM

Quote from: Mobius on August 02, 2014, 06:01:17 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on July 31, 2014, 05:31:16 AM

They keep accumulating

I would say that is not necessarily true. If investors want to cash out then the trust will need to sell bitcoin. It is very similar to people holding their bitcoin at an exchange, just in much larger amounts.

Nah, this is aimed at long term investing while an account balance at an exchange is aimed at trading.

Yes the BTC investment trust is marketed towards longer term investors, and exchanges market themselves towards traders, however this does not mean that a long term investor is not allowed to use the investment trust, and does not mean that long term investors cannot use an exchange.

JorgeStolfi

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Quote from: skivrmt on August 03, 2014, 08:19:54 AM

I agree this is a long term holding vehicle. It's fees to buy and sell are just too expensive for short term trading. Plus with only monthly liquidity a terrible vehicle for short term trading.

And they have a maintenance fee too. Do they still have the six-month minimum holding period?

skivrmt

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Quote from: wachtwoord on August 03, 2014, 05:54:47 AM

Quote from: Mobius on August 02, 2014, 06:01:17 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on July 31, 2014, 05:31:16 AM

They keep accumulating

I would say that is not necessarily true. If investors want to cash out then the trust will need to sell bitcoin. It is very similar to people holding their bitcoin at an exchange, just in much larger amounts.

Nah, this is aimed at long term investing while an account balance at an exchange is aimed at trading.

I agree this is a long term holding vehicle. It's fees to buy and sell are just too expensive for short term trading. Plus with only monthly liquidity a terrible vehicle for short term trading.

Topic: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer - page 80. (Read 262357 times)