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Topic: Germans are looking to firewood for energy as natural gas prices soar - page 6. (Read 4216 times)

hero member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 507
I know how French people make protests (they burn cars, destroy shop windows, clashes with police and etc.). They are not as disciplined as Germans. They are about to be hit with high utility bills, but they are quite silent.
That's probably why France quickly capped energy prices and government pays EDF billions for it.
There's an update: EDF is asking French households and companies to consume less electricity, to prevent blackouts. And that's the problem with subsidizing energy bills: it takes away the incentive to consume less. Up until recently, governments would tax energy in order to get people to use less. Now they subsidize it, which is great for households but doesn't help the shortages.

I know the term "rolling blackouts" from California. Soon it may happen in Europe too.
Every action we do have a reaction.
if the germans will be using wood it will result in deforestation and climate change is already a problem. Pakistan has been hit by floods.. and this is the worst in the history - so all the EU countries which are not facing the after affect of war must take the next step with great care.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 2112
I stand with Ukraine.
~
In general, the economic situation is stable ~

This made me laugh. Grin I read somewhere that Russians, almost the same as North Koreans, are living in their imaginary world that has little to do with reality, but this post of yours showed the extent of that illusion that even I didn't expect.

Just look at these graphs showing the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy:

Yeah, "the economic situation is stable", sure.
Glad you're having fun. That you are slipping me some kind of charts, I am telling you about my personal feelings from my own life and the lives of my friends. The 2014 sanctions following the annexation of Crimea were far more painful than the current ones. At that time, the ruble more than doubled against the dollar and almost all goods and services more than doubled in price, including the necessary ones, which cannot simply be abandoned. Now goods and services from the category of essential ones have risen in price by 5-10%, and some have even fallen in price, which is why the sanctions are easily tolerated.

People in Russia don't have to worry that they won't be able to buy food or pay their electricity and heating bills. Do you really think that I should suffer a lot because I can't go to the IMAX cinema or buy a can of Coca-Cola? This made me laugh too. Grin

Well, it turns out that it's easier to name the brands that did not leave Russia than those who did. So, it's surely not only Coca-Cola and IMAX; it's Microsoft, IBM, Adobe, Netflix, Spotify, Intel, Nvidia ... it's McDonald's, FFS!

I know you can survive without all that stuff, especially if you are getting your energy from the fact that you are fighting for a good cause and some evil forces united to defeat you, but you seem too intelligent to believe in what Russian propaganda is saying. You know that Russian soldiers are not fighting for a good cause here in Ukraine. In fact, among all Russian citizens, it's people like you, who suffer the most from all of this. So, yeah, I'm kinda glad my words made you laugh too. You need strength to survive until Putin's regime is over. But don't worry. Now it's obvious that it won't take long.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
I can't read most of it, and I don't know blick.ch, but it looks more like a parody than a serious website.
It is most probably an exaggeration or at the very least it is a rumor to act as a scare tactic to maybe get some people to reduce their energy consumption/wastage. Not to mention it is extremely difficult and expensive to find, prove and prosecute anybody who breaks such a silly law!

BTW the spokesperson for the Department of Economic Affairs, Markus Spörndli started this rumor or whatever it is... based on Federal Act on National Economic Supply that gives NESA authority to take "measures" that include fines and imprisonment to ensure supply of essential goods and services that includes energy sources, foodstuff, etc.

Chapter 7 Criminal Provisions
Art. 49 Violation of national economic supply measures
1 Any person who wilfully:

a. violates regulations on measures based on Articles 5 paragraph 4, 28 paragraph 1, 29, 31 paragraph 1, 32 paragraph 1 and 33 paragraph 2;
b. ignores a ruling based on this Act or related implementing provisions despite being notified of the penalties that may be imposed under this Article;
c. breaches a contract entered into on the basis of this Act or related implementing provisions despite being notified of the penalties that may be imposed under this Article
is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or a monetary penalty.

2 If the offender acts negligently, the penalty shall be a monetary penalty not exceeding 180 daily penalty units.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1195
firewood has abundant stock and will never run out

Are you sure you know what firewood is ? Google say, that globally, there are estimated to be 3.04 trillion trees. How long do you think it will take to cut every single tree, handle and dry them? Maybe 10 or 20 years. Google say that it takes 30-50 years for a tree to grow up. And not every tree is suitable to be a firewood. Some tree just burn and dont give much warmth.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I am confused. Why energy prices are so high in France? As far as I know, the French get around 70% of their energy from nuclear powerplants (and I am sure that they have spare capacity as well). They are not very dependent on natural gas. So why the prices are going up there?
Without looking for further sources, I can think of 2 reasons: many of the nuclear plants were in maintenance, and the European electricity market doesn't end at national borders.

Quote
BTW, I heard that the government in Switzerland is threatening to imprison people, if they heat their homes above 19 degree Celsius in the winter season.
I can't read most of it, and I don't know blick.ch, but it looks more like a parody than a serious website.
Is prison going to be heated?

I'm just curious how warm the European Commission building in Brussels will be in winter. I bet it's not 19 degrees.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
BTW, I heard that the government in Switzerland is threatening to imprison people, if they heat their homes above 19 degree Celsius in the winter season. LOL.. I was thinking that the Swiss are more intelligent compared to the other Europeans. Seems like they are not.

https://www.blick.ch/politik/gfroerlis-muessen-im-ernstfall-bibbern-heiz-suendern-droht-der-knast-id17851055.html
That's democracy. Heat your home and they'll imprison you for up to 3 years and you have to pay a fine of up to 3000 Francs! And to think they started this energy crisis themselves... Smiley

But in all seriousness this is another evidence added that to the list of reasons I posted here about how Europeans claiming their storages are near full is most probably a big fat lie.
full member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 110
~
In general, the economic situation is stable ~

This made me laugh. Grin I read somewhere that Russians, almost the same as North Koreans, are living in their imaginary world that has little to do with reality, but this post of yours showed the extent of that illusion that even I didn't expect.

Just look at these graphs showing the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy:

Yeah, "the economic situation is stable", sure.
Glad you're having fun. That you are slipping me some kind of charts, I am telling you about my personal feelings from my own life and the lives of my friends. The 2014 sanctions following the annexation of Crimea were far more painful than the current ones. At that time, the ruble more than doubled against the dollar and almost all goods and services more than doubled in price, including the necessary ones, which cannot simply be abandoned. Now goods and services from the category of essential ones have risen in price by 5-10%, and some have even fallen in price, which is why the sanctions are easily tolerated.

People in Russia don't have to worry that they won't be able to buy food or pay their electricity and heating bills. Do you really think that I should suffer a lot because I can't go to the IMAX cinema or buy a can of Coca-Cola? This made me laugh too. Grin
The problem is universal - even the movie ticket is so expensive that people have stopped going to the cinema
But I am assuming the world will be a different world altogether. After this year. Let's see how EU comes out of this oil crisis
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1344
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
There's an update: EDF is asking French households and companies to consume less electricity, to prevent blackouts. And that's the problem with subsidizing energy bills: it takes away the incentive to consume less. Up until recently, governments would tax energy in order to get people to use less. Now they subsidize it, which is great for households but doesn't help the shortages.

I know the term "rolling blackouts" from California. Soon it may happen in Europe too.

I am confused. Why energy prices are so high in France? As far as I know, the French get around 70% of their energy from nuclear powerplants (and I am sure that they have spare capacity as well). They are not very dependent on natural gas. So why the prices are going up there?

BTW, I heard that the government in Switzerland is threatening to imprison people, if they heat their homes above 19 degree Celsius in the winter season. LOL.. I was thinking that the Swiss are more intelligent compared to the other Europeans. Seems like they are not.

https://www.blick.ch/politik/gfroerlis-muessen-im-ernstfall-bibbern-heiz-suendern-droht-der-knast-id17851055.html
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I know how French people make protests (they burn cars, destroy shop windows, clashes with police and etc.). They are not as disciplined as Germans. They are about to be hit with high utility bills, but they are quite silent.
That's probably why France quickly capped energy prices and government pays EDF billions for it.
There's an update: EDF is asking French households and companies to consume less electricity, to prevent blackouts. And that's the problem with subsidizing energy bills: it takes away the incentive to consume less. Up until recently, governments would tax energy in order to get people to use less. Now they subsidize it, which is great for households but doesn't help the shortages.

I know the term "rolling blackouts" from California. Soon it may happen in Europe too.
legendary
Activity: 3220
Merit: 1344
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
The problem with Germany is that one chancellor, a long time ago, sold out to the Kremlin, and since then, in every possible way, he himself, and having "connected" his "heirs" in his position, made Germany's industry dependent on Russian gas. Yes, in the total volume of gas purchased by Germany, gas from the country of a terrorist, in the total volume of purchases, is approximately 40%, and this part, which provides the industrial sector of Germany. You can check with the residents of industrial centers - even the infrastructure for gas preparation at enterprises is "tuned" to Russian gas. But this problem is solvable and Germany has taken the necessary steps to get rid of such vicious relationships and dependencies.

Wrong. Gerhard Schröder is considered as pro-Russia, but the dependence on Russian gas is not something that happened in recent times. The Urengoy–Pomary–Uzhhorod pipeline was completed in 1984, and the Yamal–Europe pipeline started operating in 1997. This was long before Schröder became the chancellor of Germany. And the first pipeline was proposed in 1978 and later the Reagan administration imposed sanctions on companies that were working on it. The German chancellors at that time (Helmut Schmidt first and then Helmut Kohl) rejected the sanctions and went ahead with the project.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1131
Next Generation Web3 Casino
We are going through a very bad time as a whole world. The energy crisis was already manifesting itself with industrial development and population growth. The events after the tension between Russia and Ukraine accelerated the development of the crisis. Hopefully, what happened after the 1973 Oil Crisis will not be repeated.

Also, I read an interesting news today. Simonetta Sommaruga (Swiss Minister of Environment, Transport, Energy and Communications) has found a solution to the energy crisis:

Quote
THE MINISTER OF ENERGY IS CRITICIZED FOR THE LATE START OF THE SAVINGS CAMPAIGN
An energy-saving campaign launched in Switzerland has also been criticized after Energy Minister Simonetta Sommaruga advised people to reduce their electricity use in winter by taking showers for two, although “it’s not suitable for everyone after a certain age”.
...
While many have laughed at the advice to shower together, a Swiss official says it’s a suggestion everyone should take seriously, claiming he has changed his behavior since the start of the resource-saving campaign.
https://247newsreel.com/trending/291255.html

The stock markets collapsed after the 1973 Oil Crisis. Something similar could happen if the energy crisis is not brought to an end without irreversible damage.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
Lets take France as an example.
Let's see where their Electricity comes from: At the moment, they use 10% natural gas, 28% bio/wind/solar/hydro, and 61% nuclear (and I really like how they show live statistics!).

In Germany, the percentage natural gas is 14.6%. That's actually less than I expected.
So I guess the main difference is the percentage of gas France used to buy from Russia. That used to be 17% for France, and 55% for Germany. I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are, since Germany exports part of it again, but the difference is huge.

Quote
I know how French people make protests (they burn cars, destroy shop windows, clashes with police and etc.). They are not as disciplined as Germans. They are about to be hit with high utility bills, but they are quite silent.
That's probably why France quickly capped energy prices and government pays EDF billions for it.


The problem with Germany is that one chancellor, a long time ago, sold out to the Kremlin, and since then, in every possible way, he himself, and having "connected" his "heirs" in his position, made Germany's industry dependent on Russian gas. Yes, in the total volume of gas purchased by Germany, gas from the country of a terrorist, in the total volume of purchases, is approximately 40%, and this part, which provides the industrial sector of Germany. You can check with the residents of industrial centers - even the infrastructure for gas preparation at enterprises is "tuned" to Russian gas. But this problem is solvable and Germany has taken the necessary steps to get rid of such vicious relationships and dependencies.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1073
I read somewhere that Russians, almost the same as North Koreans, are living in their imaginary world that has little to do with reality, but this post of yours showed the extent of that illusion that even I didn't expect.

Just look at these graphs showing the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy:

(Sourse: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/impact-sanctions-russian-economy/)

>> snip <<

Yeah, "the economic situation is stable", sure.
Of course Russia shills will end up thinking like that, and the weird thing is that not all of them are from Russia neither. Soviet Union was an "idea", to go against capitalism and the liberal ideas that it carried and the poverty it caused which I can totally understand.

I do not like the system USA has neither, stuff like education and health and even infrastructure should be considered as governmental problems, so European liberalism is much better to me than what USA is doing, people dying because they can't afford Insulin? That is not acceptable. But at the same time just because you want to dislike USA doesn't mean that USSR did all well, and yet they do not see that part of the deal and go fall in love with the only nation who went head to head against USA.
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
~
In general, the economic situation is stable ~

This made me laugh. Grin I read somewhere that Russians, almost the same as North Koreans, are living in their imaginary world that has little to do with reality, but this post of yours showed the extent of that illusion that even I didn't expect.

Just look at these graphs showing the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy:

Yeah, "the economic situation is stable", sure.
Glad you're having fun. That you are slipping me some kind of charts, I am telling you about my personal feelings from my own life and the lives of my friends. The 2014 sanctions following the annexation of Crimea were far more painful than the current ones. At that time, the ruble more than doubled against the dollar and almost all goods and services more than doubled in price, including the necessary ones, which cannot simply be abandoned. Now goods and services from the category of essential ones have risen in price by 5-10%, and some have even fallen in price, which is why the sanctions are easily tolerated.

People in Russia don't have to worry that they won't be able to buy food or pay their electricity and heating bills. Do you really think that I should suffer a lot because I can't go to the IMAX cinema or buy a can of Coca-Cola? This made me laugh too. Grin
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 2112
I stand with Ukraine.
~
In general, the economic situation is stable ~

This made me laugh. Grin I read somewhere that Russians, almost the same as North Koreans, are living in their imaginary world that has little to do with reality, but this post of yours showed the extent of that illusion that even I didn't expect.

Just look at these graphs showing the impact of sanctions on the Russian economy:

(Sourse: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/impact-sanctions-russian-economy/)







Yeah, "the economic situation is stable", sure.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1864
....
Putin is so brave to have a girlfriend and he has no shame in keep that relationship.
Had that in our country - the society would have not let that happen. What is going in the world is a circus too and USA and Russia are two clowns.


Just a great idea Smiley
But even here you were deceived Smiley Putin has neither a girlfriend nor a wife, and he calls his daughters shy "Woman 1" and "Woman 2". And at the same time, for some reason, lately he has been talking about some kind of rubber ass Smiley
About clowns, too, past the box office, clowns are, for example, North Korea. And Russia is a terrorist country ... Do not come up with complex explanations for simple situations!
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
Lets take France as an example.
Let's see where their Electricity comes from: At the moment, they use 10% natural gas, 28% bio/wind/solar/hydro, and 61% nuclear (and I really like how they show live statistics!).

In Germany, the percentage natural gas is 14.6%. That's actually less than I expected.
So I guess the main difference is the percentage of gas France used to buy from Russia. That used to be 17% for France, and 55% for Germany. I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are, since Germany exports part of it again, but the difference is huge.

Quote
I know how French people make protests (they burn cars, destroy shop windows, clashes with police and etc.). They are not as disciplined as Germans. They are about to be hit with high utility bills, but they are quite silent.
That's probably why France quickly capped energy prices and government pays EDF billions for it.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1195
Lets take France as an example. In cities they use combined heating system, central heating and individual. Both are gas dependable (mostly), and electic boilers/heating (less). It is gas anyway. Isnt gas to France is transferred from Germany? Or they have switched to electric heaters ? Electricity is expensive as well now. I know how French people make protests (they burn cars, destroy shop windows, clashes with police and etc.). They are not as disciplined as Germans. They are about to be hit with high utility bills, but they are quite silent. I see that only Germany care a lot about incoming winter.
sr. member
Activity: 1554
Merit: 260
Everyone calm down, everything will stabilize. And oil and gas started a downward trend!

Dynamics of natural gas prices at the TTF gas hub:




I believe it won't if Russia doesn't stop. The cause of all the destabilization is the effect of Russia's war against Ukraine, and the U.S.A's reaction with the help of Germany and other European countries. The next action by the U.S. and its allies to await for is if they declare a broad embargo on Russian oil, gas, and other energy exports. If you read history, what started World War II was an embargo by the U.S. on German Oil.

The fact is that nothing depends on Russia. Believe me, what Russia is doing now is premortal convulsions. Russia has chosen for itself the path of an outcast country, this is half the trouble. But she is an international terrorist, and she will not be forgiven for this ... Remember "Greater Germany. Great Reich" ... But Russia is a pathetic parody of Germany of that period. The "Second Army of the World" is now running with tantrums and crap pants, throwing equipment, documents, wounded and killed, from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. There was complete confusion at the headquarters, there was no army left as such, capable. And a large territory, 100 million bodies degraded and damaged by total false propaganda, the weapons of the last century - if not greatness, this is a collapse ...

PS Also, I do not exclude that in the coming days, weeks, months, there will be an internal coup, I do not exclude that the military, the generals. It is their idiot Putin and his girlfriend Patrushev who are trying to make them guilty for the failure of the "special operation". And the generals will be glad that Russia is cut into small pieces, and they are put in these pieces as "temporarily exercising power." They will introduce external control, for example, the USA / Britain / Ukraine. And all the resources of "great Russia" will go to pay reparations, and will cost a penny.
Putin is so brave to have a girlfriend and he has no shame in keep that relationship.
Had that in our country - the society would have not let that happen. What is going in the world is a circus too and USA and Russia are two clowns.
copper member
Activity: 2100
Merit: 903
White Russian
Can someone please explain, why Germans are so worried about gas and are looking for alternative ways to keep warm this winter, but the rest of Europe, lets say Italy, France, Switzerland for example, are rather silent about similar problem. As if Germany is the only one who is dependable from Russian gas? Why other countries are so silent? They dont care or scared to talk? They have alternative to gas heating (doubt that)? If yes, could Germany take their experience ?
To answer your question, you just need to look at the map of Russian gas pipelines to Europe. The gas pipe from Russia does not pass through France and Switzerland - that's why they are silent. The North and South of Italy end at the South Stream fork, which is now operating normally, so the industrial north of Italy is suffering from rising gas prices, but in general, Italy also does not protest very loudly (perhaps because Italy has a traditionally mild winter, or perhaps they are afraid that the South Stream will also be blocked if they start to resent). Four (!) gas main pipelines come to Germany from Russia, three of which are now not working (Yamal, Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2). The problem is focused on Germany, because Germany has the largest dependence on gas in general and on Russian pipeline gas in particular in Europe.

Scholz's statements that Germany is ready to turn off Russian gas is pure populism. Without Russian gas, the entire German industry will die as a genre (although of course the Germans will not freeze this winter). The complete abandonment of industry is the price of anti-Russian sanctions for Germany.
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