Topic: 🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin (Read 1094 times)

I see. I only can hope those who use that feature backup their 12 seed words and password properly. Although by doing that, user would lose label on their TX or UTXO which could lead to worsening privacy.


I have no knowledge of the Electrumos method of implantation, so I have no basis for comparison. Ginger has no registration. The "user id", if you can call it that, is contained in 2fa_info.gws, a completely random sequence of bytes, generated during 2fa registration on the server side. It cannot and does not store any user information. If I want to simplify it a lot, all that happens is that the server responds to a fixed random byte sequence (clientserverid) with another one (wallet encyption key).
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Your and Electrum 2FA works differently. Electrum 2FA refers to 2-of-3 multi-sig wallet, where user provide correct 2FA to get his TX signed. In case the user lose 2FA or TrustedCoin not available, he can use seed words which contain 2 master private keys.

I did use Ginger Wallet in the past because I wanted to know what the service was like and posted about it here mentioning the fee deductions and about wanting to test Open Coordinator if I used it again but that was on a previous version. Has anybody downloaded the latest version of Ginger Wallet either to coinjoin or to understand their 2FA or to simply take a look at it out of curiosity?

I am not familiar with the Electrum's method of implantation, so I can't provide a direct comparison. As for Ginger, it does not involve any formal user registration. The "user ID," if you can even call it that, is simply a random sequence of bytes stored in 2fa_info.gws. This sequence is generated during the two-factor authentication (2FA) registration on the server side and contains no identifiable user information.

To simplify, the server merely responds to a predetermined random byte sequence (client-server ID) with another one (the wallet encryption key). This exchange ensures security without directly linking any user data to the process.

Yes, that's right, the server stores an encryption key. If the 2fa server is not available, the wallet is not available. The user can reset it with the original 12 seed word and password.
This is inconvenient, but still better than someone getting the unencrypted file and keylogging the password (unfortunately we know of such a case).

Why does a wallet need 2FA?

It sounds like an implementation similar to Electrum x TrustedCoin, otherwise this makes no sense. Ginger wallet's website doesn't have a registration system.

Can you explain more how the 2FA works? I've read the FAQ just now and it seems the user depends on your server to obtain encryption key which used to encrypt/decrypt user's wallet files. If my understand is correct, what would happen if user lose access to their 2FA or your server isn't accessible?

We added Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) in our new release for more protection!
You can download the new version and read more on our website. https://gingerwallet.io

I cannot see why updating the client every 2-3 weeks is going to address issues about the product not being taken up by customers in huge numbers. I think the lack of awareness about the Ginger Wallet name/brand (and what the software actually does) is probably down to lack of awareness because of not having appropriate publicity targeting a suitable audience.

If more people were aware of the software maybe it would be have higher numbers of people using it. Also, the coin join analysis by Ginger Wallet could possibly be another factor behind people not downloading it.

🚨 Don’t forget! 🚨
The Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend is in full swing! Join our Coinjoin rounds with zero coordinator fees until Monday 08:00 UTC. Time’s ticking—enhance your privacy while you can!

🚨 Reminder! 🚨
The Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend starts today at 20:00 UTC! Take advantage of zero coordinator fees and join our Coinjoin rounds. This special offer runs until Monday 08:00 UTC. Don't miss out!

Currently we are working on the client to distinguish ourselves and change this tendency.
Unfortunately this takes longer than expected, but we plan to release new client versions every 2-3 weeks for the next couple of months.

I did not look in to either Wasabi Wallet, Ginger Wallet or Open Co-ordinator enough to know about any of these operating a system that facilitates users to lose change as a trade-off for increased privacy. A side question, you were probably hoping for more activity in this thread therefore does it concern you there in not much traction in this forum regarding your Ginger Wallet product?

You can always check your coins and their privacy level at the wallet's coin list or at the coinjoin bar. At opencoordinator you will also lose the "change" money, this is a client thing, not a server side thing. The client decides not to create change.

Also please consider using the Ginger Wallet directly, it can be installed parallel to Wasabi, has slightly different coinjoin solutions. Only one can run at a time though.

Also don't forget that we will have a free weekend.

I will take a look at those figures to work out what happened. Does that mean when coin join reaches a latter part (around 80-90% upwards), it is better to not further coin join as only a small amount remains and it is better to use/move the already parts of the private funds before proceeding further and only after further funds have been added?

The next time I use Ginger Wallet I will change the default co-ordinator to Open Co-ordinator because they charge zero percent fees therefore all that should be deducted is the mining fee. The time it takes to reach 100% privacy will be a key comparator the time Ginger Wallet took.

Both Wasabi and Ginger clients aim to avoid generating 'change.' In other words, all coins should be consolidated into specific denominations (those values that are generated by all clients). This means the difference should stay below a certain minimum output amount, which is set at 10,000 satoshis for Ginger. (It’s widely believed that change negatively impacts privacy). However, this can become a significant issue if the client can only participate with low-value coins.

If only a small amount of money remains, it’s advised not to coinjoin (this applies to all clients), as you'll lose an average of 3-5k satoshis per round on top of the mining fee. There's almost certainly no coordinator fee involved.

The mining fee can be calculated, but in an environment with a rate of 3-4 sat/vbyte, it shouldn't be a major expense by itself. The vbyte is roughly 70 times the size of the input coin and 30 times the size of the output coin, and you multiply this by the mining fee. At a rate of 4 satoshis, the cost will be around 3,000-4,000 satoshis (independent of the client, assuming an average number of input/output coins).

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🎉 Ginger Free Coinjoin Weekend is here! 🎉
Join us from Friday 20:00 to Monday 08:00 UTC and participate in Ginger Coinjoin rounds with no coordinator fee! Don’t miss out on this opportunity for enhanced privacy at no extra cost. 🚀

I used GingerWallet with their default gingerwallet co-ordinator because I wanted to know how much time the coin join took to reach 100% and wanted to check the fees incurred.

Ginger Wallet via their co-ordinator are supposed to take fees of 0.3% for deposits that are 0.01 BTC and above, the rest are supposed to be mining fees. In my case, the total deduction when it reached 100% was significantly higher than I expected and the time it took to get there was in double digit hours.

Rather than use a calculator to work out 0.3% from the actual deposit and then assume the difference from the balance is the mining fee, is there a simple way to categorically ascertain how much of the deduction is the co-ordinator fee and how much of it is the mining fee?

Since we operate as a company, a coin verifier solution is essential. This will not impact the average user.
Apologies if any of your questions have gone unanswered. What are they, and how can we assist you?

Ginger, new to the forum... just give them some time to get their bearings. 

Why the multi-posting? You should just keep everything in one post at a time instead of posting consecutively.

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* New Feature: One-click transaction viewing on mempool.space.
* Enhancements: Improved CoinJoin checks, fee estimation, and bug fixes.
* Flexible Browsing: Choose your preferred browser for transaction viewing, including Tor, Brave, Firefox, Chrome, and more!
Update now for a smoother, faster Bitcoin experience!
https://gingerwallet.io

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🚨 The free remix and friends don't pay features are available only with Wasabi Wallet version 2.0.8.1 or earlier. If you are using a later version, you can still use our Coordinator, but without these benefits.
Download GingerWallet: https://gingerwallet.io

Mod note: Consecutive posts merged