Introducing Ginger Wallet v2.0.14: Enhanced Features and Improved User Experience
https://medium.com/@martin.rimoczi/ginger-wallet-v2-0-14-new-release-a1dddbe79975
Topic: 🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin - page 2. (Read 2745 times)
November 10, 2024, 11:51:35 AM
November 10, 2024, 08:16:03 AM
In the end, if a user does not want to trust a software provider because of worry about what is transpiring at server level then nobody will be able to convince them otherwise. The Ginger Wallet owners have an interest in stating opinions that are going to be directly beneficial to them, however it will be interesting to read their views on this even though do not allow users to choose a different coordinator.
Being trustless means you don't need to know what happens on the server side. The client side provides sufficient information. However, if the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.
I'd therefore place some trust to a coordinator with insufficient liquidity or bad reputation, as I think it's possible to successfully attack. I think Ginger would agree.
I'd therefore place some trust to a coordinator with insufficient liquidity or bad reputation, as I think it's possible to successfully attack. I think Ginger would agree.
November 10, 2024, 05:39:26 AM
If the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.
You are lying, you already know that clients are able to detect if the coordinator tries to partition its inputs:
There's always a small risk of getting Sybil attacked; it's just the way coinjoins are constructed. But, no, we have Mr. Absolute Truth here harassing anyone who dares to claim that Wasabi might not cure cancer.
Okay why can't you prove it then? You keep repeating this claim, but you haven't come up with any methods that would allow you to simultaneously exploit the trustless protocol in 3 different ways:
Your "solutions" don't protect you against a malicious coordinator
Why wouldn't my solutions protect me? Explain how I can still be Sybil attacked if I use the methods I described to you. Start with method 1, explain how the malicious coordinator could defeat it, then go on to method 2, explain how the malicious coordinator could defeat it, then go on to method 3 and explain how a malicious coordinator could defeat it.
Thanks to its design, the WabiSabi protocol is completely invulnerable to a Sybil attack and you've provided absolutely no evidence or argument otherwise.
Remember that it was proven that there is not just one, not just 2, but 3 different ways you can verify that the coordinator is not performing a Sybil attack!
My points proved conclusively that coordinators are trustless. You can even use all 3 anti Sybil methods together at once, you don't have to rely on just one:
- First, register your private coin to the coordinator. If it's accepted, then there's no Sybil attack.
- Second, ask your friend to register a coin to the same round. If it's accepted, then you've confirmed for a second time that there's no Sybil attack.
- Third, just to be absolutely sure, back out of the round during signing to check to see if the transaction was built to target you. If the transaction is created, you've confirmed for a third time that there's no Sybil attack.
- First, register your private coin to the coordinator. If it's accepted, then there's no Sybil attack.
- Second, ask your friend to register a coin to the same round. If it's accepted, then you've confirmed for a second time that there's no Sybil attack.
- Third, just to be absolutely sure, back out of the round during signing to check to see if the transaction was built to target you. If the transaction is created, you've confirmed for a third time that there's no Sybil attack.
November 10, 2024, 05:25:01 AM
We have no idea what is going on a server level therefore though being trustless is the selling point and main attraction for coinjoin, the fact remains there is always a possibility of some form of data harvesting taking place. I am not stating categorically that it is happening with Wasabi Wallet and/or Ginger Wallet but the possibility remains.
Being trustless means you don't need to know what happens on the server side. The client side provides sufficient information. However, if the server launches a Sybil attack, that is by definition not detectable by the client.I'd therefore place some trust to a coordinator with insufficient liquidity or bad reputation, as I think it's possible to successfully attack. I think Ginger would agree.
November 10, 2024, 05:05:44 AM
We have no idea what is going on a server level therefore though being trustless is the selling point and main attraction for coinjoin, the fact remains there is always a possibility of some form of data harvesting taking place. I am not stating categorically that it is happening with Wasabi Wallet and/or Ginger Wallet but the possibility remains.
Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick.
Being "trustless" is not only the best selling point of coinjoin. It's the only selling point. The fact that you can mix your coins without them leaving your wallet is the whole point, otherwise you can mix them more effectively, efficiently and cheaply. Quote
It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does.
Certainly, but this applies to any software. If GingerWallet is found to be malicious and funds are stolen by black-hat hackers, the outcome remains the same, whether or not you've forfeited custody. Being open-source, we assume that such risks have been addressed as thoroughly as possible. November 10, 2024, 04:40:55 AM
Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick.
Being "trustless" is not only the best selling point of coinjoin. It's the only selling point. The fact that you can mix your coins without them leaving your wallet is the whole point, otherwise you can mix them more effectively, efficiently and cheaply. Quote
It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does.
Certainly, but this applies to any software. If GingerWallet is found to be malicious and funds are stolen by black-hat hackers, the outcome remains the same, whether or not you've forfeited custody. Being open-source, we assume that such risks have been addressed as thoroughly as possible. 
November 10, 2024, 04:10:55 AM
Certainly, but isn't the primary appeal of the coinJoin protocol that it's trustless-- that it doesn't require trust in the coordinator to function? Or do you believe there's still some risk involved in choosing a random coordinator for coinjoin?
Being "trustless" is just marketing gimmick. It doesn't mean anything unless you and everyone using a coordinator don't have the coding skills to read and interpret what the software does. WasabiCoordinator was also trustless, but it was discovered that they were slowly stealing their customer's bitcoin by charging higher coinjoin fees. In reality, you have to trust that the coordinator is honest and doesn't act maliciously most of the time. The alternative, learn how to code and read code and verify everything yourself. Now, how many people out of 1000 or 10000 know how to do that? November 10, 2024, 03:18:26 AM
This provides a streamlined experience for users by ensuring secure and seamless communication with a trusted entity.
Certainly, but isn't the primary appeal of the coinJoin protocol that it's trustless-- that it doesn't require trust in the coordinator to function? Or do you believe there's still some risk involved in choosing a random coordinator for coinjoin?There's been extensive discussion on this topic, and it would be valuable to read your perspective on it as well.
November 10, 2024, 12:14:04 AM
Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.
I think one big reason is the profit side of things. Ginger wallet has made their coordinator the only one you can use with this software in one of their recent updates. You can't select a different coordinator and coinjoin with Ginger wallet. I remember that OP mentioned that the software uses 2FA, which is another security boost. Apparently, Wasabi wallet doesn't. Other than that, the two coinjoin apps should be pretty similar for now.The key distinction between GingerWallet and Wasabi lies in how coordinator selection and responsibility are handled. GingerWallet is designed to work out of the box with a default coordinator that maintained by a legal entity. This provides a streamlined experience for users by ensuring secure and seamless communication with a trusted entity.
In contrast, Wasabi does not include a default coordinator. Users must select one from the internet, placing the responsibility for this choice—and the associated risks—on the user.
Our approach reflects a fundamental difference in philosophy. By integrating a default coordinator, GingerWallet can take responsibility for its functionality and reliability. On the other hand, Wasabi prioritizes user choice but leaves the risks and responsibilities associated with that choice to the user.
We believe this distinction helps users decide which wallet aligns better with their needs and comfort level regarding security and convenience.
November 08, 2024, 08:34:21 AM
🚀 New Release Alert! Ginger Wallet v2.0.14 is here! 🎉
✨ What’s New?
🌀 Resync Button: Quickly reinitialize your wallet!
💰 Manual Coin Control: Enhanced with detailed coin info.
🌍 Language Support: Now available in French 🇫🇷 & Simplified Chinese 🇨🇳.
🙏 Special thanks to @p2-b for the French translation! 💙
🌐 Visit us: https://gingerwallet.io
💬 Join the conversation: https://t.me/GingerWallet
👉 Check out the release: https://github.com/GingerPrivacy/GingerWallet/releases/tag/v2.0.14
📥 Upgrade now for a faster, smoother Bitcoin experience! ⚡️
✨ What’s New?
🌀 Resync Button: Quickly reinitialize your wallet!
💰 Manual Coin Control: Enhanced with detailed coin info.
🌍 Language Support: Now available in French 🇫🇷 & Simplified Chinese 🇨🇳.
🙏 Special thanks to @p2-b for the French translation! 💙
🌐 Visit us: https://gingerwallet.io
💬 Join the conversation: https://t.me/GingerWallet
👉 Check out the release: https://github.com/GingerPrivacy/GingerWallet/releases/tag/v2.0.14
📥 Upgrade now for a faster, smoother Bitcoin experience! ⚡️
November 08, 2024, 04:21:02 AM
Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.
I think one big reason is the profit side of things. Ginger wallet has made their coordinator the only one you can use with this software in one of their recent updates. You can't select a different coordinator and coinjoin with Ginger wallet. I remember that OP mentioned that the software uses 2FA, which is another security boost. Apparently, Wasabi wallet doesn't. Other than that, the two coinjoin apps should be pretty similar for now. November 06, 2024, 09:29:24 AM
"We concluded with the Wasabi maintainer that our future directions were different, so we decided to create a fork of the Wasabi project. The fork was created recently after Wasabi v2.0.7.2, with no functional changes — just rebranding. Currently, both Wasabi and Ginger clients are compatible with the Ginger coordinator. However, this might change in the future, so I highly suggest downloading the Ginger Wallet client from our website."
Could you briefly describe the disagreements you had with the Wasabi maintainer(s)? I believe explaining these differences would help your clients decide which wallet software best suits their needs. Currently, since you're a fork of Wasabi, it may not be immediately clear to customers why they should choose your fork over the original, which has been maintained for a longer time and still allows connections to your coordinator and other features.Apologies if this has already been answered.
November 06, 2024, 06:39:50 AM
As Ginger Wallet is essentially a fork of Wasabi Wallet, it would should have had all of the main components of Wasabi Wallet in place including any languages when they released their fork. I used Ginger Wallet once to test their software but also have no recollection about their languages. I think with these small modifications (such as adding languages, not allowing users to change the default coordinator), over time their intention is to create distance between themselves and Wasabi Wallet as they move further away from the Wasabi Wallet source code to attract interest in their stand-alone software.
Exactly. Ginger Wallet is taking a different direction from Wasabi Wallet, and it will soon become a distinct software with unique components. Quoting from our introductory article:
"We concluded with the Wasabi maintainer that our future directions were different, so we decided to create a fork of the Wasabi project. The fork was created recently after Wasabi v2.0.7.2, with no functional changes — just rebranding. Currently, both Wasabi and Ginger clients are compatible with the Ginger coordinator. However, this might change in the future, so I highly suggest downloading the Ginger Wallet client from our website."
Read more here.
https://medium.com/@molnardavid84/ginger-wallet-first-contact-1abc8d292abd
Regarding languages, this was far from a "small modification." It involved changing nearly 200 files in the repository and added a significant maintenance burden to the project.
By the way, what is your native language? Perhaps you could contribute a translation for us. Adding just one language is indeed smaller than the "small" you mentioned! 😊
November 06, 2024, 04:08:25 AM
As Ginger Wallet is essentially a fork of Wasabi Wallet, it would should have had all of the main components of Wasabi Wallet in place including any languages when they released their fork. I used Ginger Wallet once to test their software but also have no recollection about their languages. I think with these small modifications (such as adding languages, not allowing users to change the default coordinator), over time their intention is to create distance between themselves and Wasabi Wallet as they move further away from the Wasabi Wallet source code to attract interest in their stand-alone software.
November 06, 2024, 01:53:45 AM
Ginger Wallet Expands: CoinJoin Now Available in Spanish, Hungarian, and English
I don't use your wallet but I am guessing English was there from the start and this update is actually the addition of two new languages (not three), those being Spanish and Hungarian. Interesting choice of languages. With that, I mean Hungarian and not Russian, Mandarin, Hindi, Portuguese, etc. Do you have an unusually high userbase in Hungary or is this just a random choice and based on what your community of translators does? Hi. Some of the developers are Hungarian, so the translation was readily available. We are working on adding more languages in the future. We’ll be releasing a new update soon that will include additional languages. Thank you for reaching out!
November 05, 2024, 03:52:45 AM
Ginger Wallet Expands: CoinJoin Now Available in Spanish, Hungarian, and English
I don't use your wallet but I am guessing English was there from the start and this update is actually the addition of two new languages (not three), those being Spanish and Hungarian. Interesting choice of languages. With that, I mean Hungarian and not Russian, Mandarin, Hindi, Portuguese, etc. Do you have an unusually high userbase in Hungary or is this just a random choice and based on what your community of translators does? November 02, 2024, 10:01:32 AM
Ginger Wallet Expands: CoinJoin Now Available in Spanish, Hungarian, and English
https://medium.com/@martin.rimoczi/ginger-wallet-expands-coinjoin-now-available-in-spanish-hungarian-and-english-e4ff50763c79
https://medium.com/@martin.rimoczi/ginger-wallet-expands-coinjoin-now-available-in-spanish-hungarian-and-english-e4ff50763c79
October 30, 2024, 12:38:16 PM
🔒 Verify your #GingerWallet download with PGP! Check authenticity by comparing signatures. PGP Fingerprint: FA0B 017A 3E75 CE65 CBF7 838F A8FF 3767 EDF5 DCE9. Find the key on gingerwallet.io or GitHub. #Security #PGP
October 28, 2024, 07:44:43 AM
Big milestone! 🚀 On 10/26, a total of 33.17 BTC entered our CoinJoin transactions in just one day! 🎉 Thanks for supporting stronger privacy. 🙏 Visit gingerwallet.io #Bitcoin #CoinJoin #Privacy
October 25, 2024, 04:25:41 AM
I thought that was the case but still asked just in case there was a modification added that would allow users to revert to adding a coordinator of their own choice. It seems that Ginger Wallet will now not be going back to allowing their users the choice of whether they want a free coordinator or to pay the fee to an alternative to what is being forced upon them.
Still, we will wait for future updates.
Still, we will wait for future updates.
Thank you very much for the recognition. There has been no change regarding the coordinator selection.
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