🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin - page 2.

JollyGood

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Quote from: NotATether on July 27, 2024, 06:46:21 AM

There is one account on the altcoinstalks forum belonging to a Ginger Wallet rep which has talked about their wallet on that thread - I've talked to it too - but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves. It's not like they are banned or anything.

Maybe icopress was creating the thread in the run-up to them giving the go-ahead for a signature campaign. It is possible something could be happening behind the scenes and just a few people are privy to it. Keeping that to one side, if a Ginger Wallet representative is active on other forums it really would be helpful if they were also active here too because there a lot of questions being asked.

Quote from: SFR10 on July 27, 2024, 07:38:50 AM

One of their representatives ^[sztest] used to be somewhat active when he/she created an announcement "thread" prior to this one, but they locked it because of this thread.
^{- The only other place where I'm seeing some recent activities is in one of their GitHub repositories.}

I was unaware of that thread and the account. It was created on 15th June 2024 and last active on 3rd July 2024. Maybe they have given up trying to use this forum as a means to attract a customer/user base.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 26, 2024, 12:36:19 PM

I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account,

Quote from: NotATether on July 27, 2024, 06:46:21 AM

but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves.

One of their representatives ^[sztest] used to be somewhat active when he/she created an announcement "thread" prior to this one, but they locked it because of this thread.
^{- The only other place where I'm seeing some recent activities is in one of their GitHub repositories.}

NotATether

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 26, 2024, 12:36:19 PM

I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account, maybe they are not interested in engaging with members of the forum after they studied the way members interacted with Kruw (as a so-called Wasabi Wallet contributor that might or might not have actually been employed by zkSNACKs). Or maybe this thread is a pre-cursor to them getting ready to start engaging with members, we do not know but they should have at least started posting here by now.

There is one account on the altcoinstalks forum belonging to a Ginger Wallet rep which has talked about their wallet on that thread - I've talked to it too - but it's just weird how they're just having @icopress create an ANN thread on Bitcointalk but they never show up themselves. It's not like they are banned or anything.

JollyGood

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I have not seem any posts from a Ginger Wallet forum account, maybe they are not interested in engaging with members of the forum after they studied the way members interacted with Kruw (as a so-called Wasabi Wallet contributor that might or might not have actually been employed by zkSNACKs). Or maybe this thread is a pre-cursor to them getting ready to start engaging with members, we do not know but they should have at least started posting here by now.

Quote from: NotATether on July 26, 2024, 06:55:06 AM

It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just like AMLbot (sends all your addresses to law enforcement). I don't even understand why their developer or rep isn't writing on this thread.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 26, 2024, 05:52:47 AM

Customers not knowing whether they will be allowed to coinjoin is counterproductive to those wanting to use their service.

I do not understand which logic they would apply to create a service based on Wasabi Wallet yet when they forked it instead of removing the same modifications that caused Wasabi Wallet to suffer an enormous loss of reputation, they have kept them implemented even though they knew how the community would react. The question arises, why would they launch a product that will probably not gain traction when they already know blockchain analysis of customers transactions is not accepted by the majority of people in the first place.

It's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just like AMLbot (sends all your addresses to law enforcement). I don't even understand why their developer or rep isn't writing on this thread.

JollyGood

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Customers not knowing whether they will be allowed to coinjoin is counterproductive to those wanting to use their service.

I do not understand which logic they would apply to create a service based on Wasabi Wallet yet when they forked it instead of removing the same modifications that caused Wasabi Wallet to suffer an enormous loss of reputation, they have kept them implemented even though they knew how the community would react. The question arises, why would they launch a product that will probably not gain traction when they already know blockchain analysis of customers transactions is not accepted by the majority of people in the first place.

Quote from: Pmalek on July 08, 2024, 07:22:24 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 08, 2024, 04:59:59 AM

About the blockchain analysis, with WasabiWallet I was under the impression coinjoining would not go ahead if the coins were analysed and deemed to be suspicious/taint and have the same impression from the GingerWallet fork. Maybe I understood it wrong.

That's correct. You didn't misunderstand. If the blockchain analysis partner shows thumbs down, those coins can't be used in coinjoin rounds.

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Quote from: PrivacyG on July 07, 2024, 11:41:43 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 07, 2024, 04:40:23 AM

I encourage everyone to always give the benefit of the doubt, but if that's actually true, then the laziness of the developers will make the fork worse than the original because fork will inherit the flaws/bugs/exploits of the original and the "lazy developers" of the fork might not fix it without depending on the developers of the original.

Exactly why this was the first question that came up in my mind,

Quote from: PrivacyG on June 28, 2024, 03:08:21 PM

I wonder, is Ginger Wallet going to continue only tweaking future versions of Wasabi or are they going an entirely separate path and looking to build a separate Product?

I thought I would be called out for being paranoid first so I removed part of my Reply. But I asked that question because if they are NOT following an entirely separate path then they are some what if not entirely dependent on the work of Wasabi. If today Wasabi releases a new update and it takes another few days for Ginger to work on it and tweak it to their own rebranding, then to me it sounds like the Security of Ginger Wallet is at least a little bit less since Ginger is going to pretty much be in a constant delay of Update releases, putting Users at risk too particularly if a new Wasabi update involves a crucial fix for Privacy or Security issues found.

If you use open source, you partly SHOULD be paranoid. You always verify checksums and/or PGP signatures, and do other tedious things. Sometimes you could get very paranoid, you need to install and run it in a VM in another computer.

But for the developers of Ginger Wallet, if they're actually good, they should find flaws/bugs and patch them up, make UI/UX better for users, it's also their responsibility to find exploits and take advantage of them then report what they discovered.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 08, 2024, 04:59:59 AM

I agree, I see your point however the fact of the matter is GingerWallet was created by forking WasabiWallet and when they did they decided to use blockchain analysis when they easily could have chosen to exclude it. Furthermore, their terms and conditions clearly state the service is not open to US citizens. The logic of adding these two clauses demonstrate a pre-emotive move. I am curious, if not to do it to demonstrate to US authorities, then why do it?

To make it seem like they have done everything they can to block US citizens from using the service. But that restriction only prevents US IP addresses from accessing the website and downloading the wallet. They can easily bypass this with VPNs. If, after that, the wallet has a way to monitor and check that it's not being used by US citizens, then what kind of privacy are we talking about? And like I said previously, if we are moving towards a future where privacy-preserving services aren't welcome (and we are), the governments aren't going to make it easier for you just because you have terms meant to block certain people from using the service. Remember, they don't want the service to exist in the first place.

Quote from: JollyGood on July 08, 2024, 04:59:59 AM

About the blockchain analysis, with WasabiWallet I was under the impression coinjoining would not go ahead if the coins were analysed and deemed to be suspicious/taint and have the same impression from the GingerWallet fork. Maybe I understood it wrong.

That's correct. You didn't misunderstand. If the blockchain analysis partner shows thumbs down, those coins can't be used in coinjoin rounds.

JollyGood

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I agree, I see your point however the fact of the matter is GingerWallet was created by forking WasabiWallet and when they did they decided to use blockchain analysis when they easily could have chosen to exclude it. Furthermore, their terms and conditions clearly state the service is not open to US citizens. The logic of adding these two clauses demonstrate a pre-emotive move. I am curious, if not to do it to demonstrate to US authorities, then why do it?

About the blockchain analysis, with WasabiWallet I was under the impression coinjoining would not go ahead if the coins were analysed and deemed to be suspicious/taint and have the same impression from the GingerWallet fork. Maybe I understood it wrong.

Quote from: Pmalek on July 08, 2024, 03:35:03 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on July 01, 2024, 06:03:25 AM

There is a possibility they concluded having blockchain analysis will help shield them in the event they were ever charged with any crimes such as money laundering.

That wouldn't make sense. If the authorities consider the act of coinjoining to be illicit because it provides you with a level of privacy they don't want to see, then using such a coinjoin-enabling service wouldn't be allowed (or it would be frowned upon) by default. Blockchain analysis does nothing to stop coinjoining. All it does is it sells the notion of bitcoin taint and dirty coins to those who want to purchase it. The coinjoining still happens with or without blockchain analysis.

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Quote from: JollyGood on July 01, 2024, 06:03:25 AM

There is a possibility they concluded having blockchain analysis will help shield them in the event they were ever charged with any crimes such as money laundering.

That wouldn't make sense. If the authorities consider the act of coinjoining to be illicit because it provides you with a level of privacy they don't want to see, then using such a coinjoin-enabling service wouldn't be allowed (or it would be frowned upon) by default. Blockchain analysis does nothing to stop coinjoining. All it does is it sells the notion of bitcoin taint and dirty coins to those who want to purchase it. The coinjoining still happens with or without blockchain analysis.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 07, 2024, 04:40:23 AM

I will sound that I'm not-picking, although I agree that software/apps that fork from the original should be made easy to coexist with the original in the same computer. But how are their coordinators exactly the same? That they both use the services of some blockchain analytics companies to filter "tainted" outputs?

No. When I say they are the same, I mean their software is probably the same. The coordinator software (as you've probably heard many times already Tongue

) is open-source, available for everyone to download and setup, in Github. As per my knowledge, there is no guide from Wasabi that shows step-by-step how to spin off your own coordinator, but I've come across this:

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 07, 2024, 11:41:43 AM

Putting Marketing first on a Product that speaks 'laziness' out loud seems like the worst way to introduce themselves.

They prioritize marketing, likely because they learned from the mistakes of another company that ruined its entire reputation through a marketing failure. Any such company comes to mind? Cheesy

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on July 07, 2024, 04:40:23 AM

I encourage everyone to always give the benefit of the doubt, but if that's actually true, then the laziness of the developers will make the fork worse than the original because fork will inherit the flaws/bugs/exploits of the original and the "lazy developers" of the fork might not fix it without depending on the developers of the original.

Exactly why this was the first question that came up in my mind,

Quote from: PrivacyG on June 28, 2024, 03:08:21 PM

I wonder, is Ginger Wallet going to continue only tweaking future versions of Wasabi or are they going an entirely separate path and looking to build a separate Product?

I thought I would be called out for being paranoid first so I removed part of my Reply. But I asked that question because if they are NOT following an entirely separate path then they are some what if not entirely dependent on the work of Wasabi. If today Wasabi releases a new update and it takes another few days for Ginger to work on it and tweak it to their own rebranding, then to me it sounds like the Security of Ginger Wallet is at least a little bit less since Ginger is going to pretty much be in a constant delay of Update releases, putting Users at risk too particularly if a new Wasabi update involves a crucial fix for Privacy or Security issues found.

-----

Quote from: hugeblack on July 06, 2024, 10:34:38 AM

For this reason, I called Ginger Wallet as a copy-paste rather than a fork.

Quote from: repentance on March 01, 2013, 07:00:16 AM

There was no copy-pasting, it was purely a fork plus minor changes (rebranding, coordinator URI).

It sounds very much like copy pasting to me. Are 'Forks' not copy pastes? If I Forked Bitcoin Talk only to rebrand it with my own logo, I am pretty sure it would be a copy of Bitcoin Talk but rebranded to my liking?

Quote from: hugeblack on July 06, 2024, 10:34:38 AM

The developer’s response was that they are focusing on marketing and development will come later.

This is disappointing. Why is advertising a copy of what already exists more important than finishing their Product first to show us what they can do? Putting Marketing first on a Product that speaks 'laziness' out loud seems like the worst way to introduce themselves.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on July 06, 2024, 08:16:33 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

Ginger is a fork of Wasabi, that's written in their main page:

Quote from: https://gingerwallet.io/#help

Ginger Wallet forked from Wasabi Wallet. A new coordinator with an active coinjoin service has been established.

Still, not reasonable not to create another data dir, so that Wasabi and Ginger can coexist in the same computer. It's safe to say that Ginger is like a Wasabi coordinator with some extra modifications in the client. You can use their coordinator from Wasabi by pointing to "https://api.gingerwallet.io/", although they recommend to use their client for long-term reliability:

Quote

We strongly recommend using the Ginger Wallet client for long-term reliability!

I will sound that I'm nit-picking, although I agree that software/apps that fork from the original should be made easy to coexist with the original in the same computer. But how are their coordinators exactly the same? That they both use the services of some blockchain analytics companies to filter "tainted" outputs?

Quote from: NotATether on July 07, 2024, 04:26:29 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

...

That is just laziness.

I encourage everyone to always give the benefit of the doubt, but if that's actually true, then the laziness of the developers will make the fork worse than the original because fork will inherit the flaws/bugs/exploits of the original and the "lazy developers" of the fork might not fix it without depending on the developers of the original.

NotATether

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Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

...

That is just laziness. There is no reason why they couldn't have created their own config directory and then just restore the wallet with the recovery words. They didn't even bother to change the name of the .deb package - it's still wassabee.

Quote from: ABCbits on July 07, 2024, 04:19:18 AM

I wonder if it's just generic disclaimer to encourage people use their client or they plan to make addition/change on CoinJoin feature.

It's just marketing BS and there's nothing different about their API unless blacklisting is fascinating to you.

I can't believe I'm actually bad-mouthing a wallet right off the bat. Usually wallets only have a few problems, which is understandable, but this product looks like a rushed release with barely any development effort put into it.

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on July 06, 2024, 08:16:33 AM

Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

Ginger is a fork of Wasabi, that's written in their main page:

Quote from: https://gingerwallet.io/#help

Ginger Wallet forked from Wasabi Wallet. A new coordinator with an active coinjoin service has been established.

Still, not reasonable not to create another data dir, so that Wasabi and Ginger can coexist in the same computer. It's safe to say that Ginger is like a Wasabi coordinator with some extra modifications in the client.

I'm aware Ginger is fork of Wasabi before writing that post. Anyway, aside from different data directory, they should put effort not to replacing existing Wasabi installation/binary.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on July 06, 2024, 08:16:33 AM

You can use their coordinator from Wasabi by pointing to "https://api.gingerwallet.io/", although they recommend to use their client for long-term reliability:

Quote

We strongly recommend using the Ginger Wallet client for long-term reliability!

I wonder if it's just generic disclaimer to encourage people use their client or they plan to make addition/change on CoinJoin feature.

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Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

I just tried installing Ginger Wallet after installing Wasabi Wallet on Debian VM, where it seems what @Husna QA is true.

1. Ginger simply overwrite Wasabi installation.

For this reason, I called Ginger Wallet as a copy-paste rather than a fork. The developer’s response was that they are focusing on marketing and development will come later.
so in the coming versions you can run Ginger and wasabi

ALTT --->https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?topic=321816.msg1570962#msg1570962

Quote from: repentance on March 01, 2013, 07:00:16 AM

Quote from: lassdas on February 28, 2013, 11:11:06 PM

years of privacy research and development?? It is zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi fork and some parts of the code were copied and pasted as is.

There was no copy-pasting, it was purely a fork plus minor changes (rebranding, coordinator URI). In the first period, Ginger's team will be focusing on marking to spread the news.
FTR the development of Wasabi Wallet didn't stop, it will be continued as an open source project, so anyone can continue. Their direction indeed changed. Since zkSANCKs coordinator stopped operating, they now want to make Wasabi Wallet to be able to connect to any other coordinator. It turned out that currently, the client (Wasabi) is not fully secure against malicious coordinators so their last release tried to mitigate this issue.

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Quote from: ABCbits on July 06, 2024, 05:01:59 AM

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

Ginger is a fork of Wasabi, that's written in their main page:

Quote from: https://gingerwallet.io/#help

Ginger Wallet forked from Wasabi Wallet. A new coordinator with an active coinjoin service has been established.

Still, not reasonable not to create another data dir, so that Wasabi and Ginger can coexist in the same computer. It's safe to say that Ginger is like a Wasabi coordinator with some extra modifications in the client. You can use their coordinator from Wasabi by pointing to "https://api.gingerwallet.io/", although they recommend to use their client for long-term reliability:

Quote

We strongly recommend using the Ginger Wallet client for long-term reliability!

Wind_FURY

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I literally just said that Wasabi Wallet needs to be forked and be more like how Linux has different "flavors", and here's one that arrived as soon as the community needed it.

👍

It's obvious that like many open source projects themselves, to secure their continued development and secure its future, the code should be forked and be made redundant with a wider group of developers working on them.

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Quote from: hugeblack on July 05, 2024, 01:58:35 AM

Quote from: Husna QA on July 03, 2024, 12:45:16 AM

Therefore, both wallets should not be run at the same time.

This is not supposed to happen because in the end, GingerWallet is a Wasabi fork. You can now run the Ginger coordinator on the Wasabi wallet or run any other coordinator, while downloading GingerWallet means that you will use one coordinator.
In the future, the development of both wallets will be independent, and then the features of downloading GingerWallet will be limited.

I just tried installing Ginger Wallet after installing Wasabi Wallet on Debian VM, where it seems what @Husna QA is true.

1. Ginger simply overwrite Wasabi installation.

Code:

$ sudo dpkg -i Ginger-2.0.9.deb 
[sudo] password for user: 
(Reading database ... 193229 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack Ginger-2.0.9.deb ...
Unpacking wassabee (2.0.9) over (2.0.8) ...
Setting up wassabee (2.0.9) ...
{"success": true}
Processing triggers for mailcap (3.70+nmu1) ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils (0.26-1) ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme (0.17-2) ...

2. After i open Ginger app, it detect wallet file i created using Wasabi app. I don't see any newly created directory (such as .gingerwallet) on my home directory either.

Quote from: hugeblack on July 05, 2024, 01:58:35 AM

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 03, 2024, 03:42:37 PM

--

Privacy can be at the protocol level. We have BitcoinCash CashFusion (the only problem will be high transaction fees) or a complete privacy update, as happened with litecoin MimbleWimble.

That's true, although who knows if majority of Bitcoin owner would agree of adding such privacy feature knowing LTC got delisted by some exchange after doing that.

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Quote from: Husna QA on July 03, 2024, 12:45:16 AM

Therefore, both wallets should not be run at the same time.

This is not supposed to happen because in the end, GingerWallet is a Wasabi fork. You can now run the Ginger coordinator on the Wasabi wallet or run any other coordinator, while downloading GingerWallet means that you will use one coordinator.
In the future, the development of both wallets will be independent, and then the features of downloading GingerWallet will be limited.

Quote from: PrivacyG on July 03, 2024, 03:42:37 PM

--

Privacy can be at the protocol level. We have BitcoinCash CashFusion (the only problem will be high transaction fees) or a complete privacy update, as happened with litecoin MimbleWimble.

Topic: 🔥 GingerWallet.io - Desktop, Non-custodial, Open source | #CoinJoin - page 2. (Read 1094 times)