Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST - page 15.

gene

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Quote from: mobodick on September 11, 2012, 07:32:32 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: markm on September 11, 2012, 05:30:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Many people seemed to give him a lot of money once everyone started telling ponzi.

That kind of makes sense, since once you know it is a ponzi you can figure a way to try to profit from it, such as by sending in lots more lambs to the slaughter, whereas when you didn't know what it was it was maybe harder to see why (or even how) he would ever give you any of your money back...

-MarkM-

Part of this IMO is that once people yelled ponzi people wanted safe investments and bought insrued pirate stuff. However it turns out most of the insurance money was also sent to pirate :/

You see, this is where those people were wrong.
If people yell ponzi people should GTFO of the deal, not seek some insured ponzi stuff.
But in those situations usually greed takes over and the FIRST thing greed does is throw reason out the window.
Or would you claim that you honestly thought there was not a huge huge risk that pirate would not pay (and that is not a rhetorical question)?

He'll cling to the "not proven ponzi" line till the end.

Frankie

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Assuming this was a ponzi he has no where close to 500,000 BTC he claims.

I hate to be crass, but no shit, Sherlock.

The fact that he likely has only a fraction of the deposits is why some have said this effort is throwing good money after bad. I wish the true victims of this scam luck (ie, the people mislead by co-conspirators such as yourself), but please calibrate your expectations.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think you p4man are either paid by Pirate to try to trick us into this ponzi idea or that you just want to feel right about something cuz your ego needs it.

You've always said you understand Pirate's business model, so I would appreciate some of your expertise here. How does paying people to "trick" them into think it's a Ponzi help Pirate? Keep in mind, these were the same people telling people not to invest and to pull out their funds--for months, in many cases.

mobodick

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: mobodick on September 11, 2012, 07:01:54 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 10, 2012, 12:31:34 AM

Quote from: El Cabron on September 10, 2012, 12:14:02 AM

Sadly at this time we have reason to believe fraud occurred.

If Pirate provides evidence that he was actually operating a passthrough to Zeek, will you still hold him responsible for returning your coins?

I can not speak for the group. But I would feel a whole lot better about it if he was tricked by Zeek rather than running a full ponzi. However if he collects back from Zeek he would need to forward that onto account holders.

You think someone like pirate could be 'tricked' into a ponzi?

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If he was involved with Zeek he would be fully aware that it must be a ponzi.
Only naive people with no experience can think that a ponzi is not a ponzi.

I honestly do not know how zeeks operated. Also was it clear Madoff was a ponzi? He tricked a lot of people...

It's not important HOW zeek operated, it is important that they had unrealistic returns that are only possible if something is not straight.
Name a form of 'business' that claims such returns and is NOT a ponzi, please.
About bernie, a lot of the unknowing and unexperienced people invested through peripheral routes. They could be kept in the dark.
People dealing (almost) directly with him and who were in the money business absolutely had to know that it was a ponzi.
The only thing they didn't know was when it would bust.
The only respect madoff got in the banking community is from how long he could keep it running.
Of course they would all deny they thought it was a ponzi, but do you realy think big player banks and hedge funds are this naive? They'd be out of business in 2 days if they hired people that stupid.

P4man

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Quote from: bg002h on September 11, 2012, 06:54:22 AM

I'll chip in my ill gotten BTC2 when you all are ready.

You do realize the first thing Goat will consult a lawyer about, is his OWN liability for promoting and facilitating a fraudulent ponzi operation, right? Why do you think he is still pretending its unsure if pirate really ran a ponzi? Goats first concern is not getting your coins back, its keeping his own ass out of trouble, and if that would mean letting Pirate off the hook, you can bet those 2BTC that he will.

zyk

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Shadow383 on September 11, 2012, 04:57:34 AM

1.5-3% per day isn't unusual for an online ponzi scheme (zeek managed to get to ~$600m and last over a year offering rates like that).
What interests me though is you saying he paid out more than he got in - what details do you have for that?

Block chain evidence, and no at times it seems he dipped into negative value however at the end it is clear he was up. Many people seemed to give him a lot of money once everyone started telling ponzi.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I agree we do not need to know what happened before we file a complain and we might not ever know. However collect evidence just seemed like the right first step. Part of this step is who is owed what and to see if the want to file a complaint as well. Sadly many large PPT operators at this time seem to not want to join us. Some slowly are talking with us however.

Thanks.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Also some smart people still think pirate had nothing to do with a ponzi. You really can at times make more than 1% a day just doing arb. Honestly pirate could have been something else.
Anyway we want to get evidence for the parts we are missing to get a better picture. Also it would help if pirate would just open up and talk.
Thanks.

Quote from: Puppet on September 11, 2012, 05:05:55 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

The first thing we would like to do is find out exactly what pirate was doing.

Thats easy. He took your coins and ran.
Whatever Pirate did with your coins, "invest", sell, gamble, coke or hookers doesnt matter one yota. Why dont you focus on verifying his ID and filing a formal complaint?

There are powerful people on this forum, who nor want pirate@40 to be located, neither to see his uncooked accounting made public -- thats why---and thats why it takes 6 weeks

for Goat to open this thread (going after Trendon Shavers) and now to put even that 3 steps back to the closed one (aggregating data) and IRC and thats why now, even as a

Trendon Shavers will be identified, nor proper accounting, neither the operator of BCST will be found.

Quote from: smoothie on September 10, 2012, 04:03:09 PM

It is good to hear that people are making "arrangments" to go after Pirate. But all in all. I'm not sure much will come from it.

By all means put Good money into chasing after bad money. Perhaps you might turn a profit in all of this. Well some PPTs obviously have (i think).

Bitcoin has moved into the strong hands. Get over it. Stop trusting scumbags on the internet to hold your damn bitcoins.

Read my posts in bitcoinmax before they are all becoming censored like in here and you can again see in the rear - view mirror :

"Caution - Objects might be nearer than they appear"

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: kentrolla on September 11, 2012, 05:39:36 AM

the first step should be to file a complaint imo. The sooner the better. Let them do their job.

We are doing this as a group and this is the way they wanted to do it.

@Goat ...are you allowed to tell us who is ment by "we" and "they" ?

Cheers Zyk

mobodick

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Activity: 840

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: markm on September 11, 2012, 05:30:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Many people seemed to give him a lot of money once everyone started telling ponzi.

That kind of makes sense, since once you know it is a ponzi you can figure a way to try to profit from it, such as by sending in lots more lambs to the slaughter, whereas when you didn't know what it was it was maybe harder to see why (or even how) he would ever give you any of your money back...

-MarkM-

Part of this IMO is that once people yelled ponzi people wanted safe investments and bought insrued pirate stuff. However it turns out most of the insurance money was also sent to pirate :/

You see, this is where those people were wrong.
If people yell ponzi people should GTFO of the deal, not seek some insured ponzi stuff.
But in those situations usually greed takes over and the FIRST thing greed does is throw reason out the window.
Or would you claim that you honestly thought there was not a huge huge risk that pirate would not pay (and that is not a rhetorical question)?

DutchBrat

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Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Puppet on September 11, 2012, 07:21:37 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Also was it clear Madoff was a ponzi? He tricked a lot of people...

QFT. Thats the guy who is going to uncover what Pirate really did ROFL.

Well like we have said before the FBI hopefully will take on the case and investigate it in detail. Also hopefully some or all of the coins will be returned.

Shouldn't the ICCC be the place to go with this ?

The Internet Crime Complaint Center. Co-sponsored by the FBI and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)

http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

And seeing as people want to file individual complaints as well, how about setting up a locked forum thread where you guys post all the info you currently have on 'pirateat40'

Puppet

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Also was it clear Madoff was a ponzi? He tricked a lot of people...

QFT. Thats the guy who is going to uncover what Pirate really did ROFL.

Shadow383

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: P4man on September 11, 2012, 07:09:03 AM

How about you do a big public apology first to all the people that warned you, but that you have been shouting down and insulting for over 6 months and more importantly, to the people who trusted your judgement, but that you misled by pretending you knew more than you really did?

The same goes for the rest of the pirate promo team who are now all pretending to be only victims fighting for the righteous cause.

+ graham's number.

P4man

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

How about you do a big public apology first to all the people that warned you, but that you have been shouting down and insulting for over 6 months and more importantly, to the people who trusted your judgement, but that you misled by pretending you knew more than you really did?

The same goes for the rest of the pirate promo team who are now all pretending to be only victims fighting for the righteous cause.

mobodick

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Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: JoelKatz on September 10, 2012, 12:31:34 AM

Quote from: El Cabron on September 10, 2012, 12:14:02 AM

Sadly at this time we have reason to believe fraud occurred.

If Pirate provides evidence that he was actually operating a passthrough to Zeek, will you still hold him responsible for returning your coins?

I can not speak for the group. But I would feel a whole lot better about it if he was tricked by Zeek rather than running a full ponzi. However if he collects back from Zeek he would need to forward that onto account holders.

You think someone like pirate could be 'tricked' into a ponzi?

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

If he was involved with Zeek he would be fully aware that it must be a ponzi.
Only naive people with no experience can think that a ponzi is not a ponzi.

bg002h

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I outlived my lifetime membership:)

I'll chip in my ill gotten BTC2 when you all are ready.

JMAHH

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[offtopic]

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 10, 2012, 01:59:29 AM

verbal diarrhea

More concisely: "logorrhea".

[/offtopic]

As long as they don't ask us to invest in the investigation, I'll support it.

repentance

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

I agree we do not need to know what happened before we file a complain and we might not ever know. However collect evidence just seemed like the right first step. Part of this step is who is owed what and to see if the want to file a complaint as well. Sadly many large PPT operators at this time seem to not want to join us. Some slowly are talking with us however.

Thanks.

I'd strongly advise filing complaints with whatever information you already have and adding any extra information you have as it comes in. The longer it takes before those who can access all sorts of information about Trendon Shavers which this community cannot start investigating, the more opportunity he has to muddy the trail.

I also believe that it if it was legitimate to ask Bitcoin Magazine to distance itself from Matthew, it is equally legitimate to ask the other members of GPUMax to distance themselves from Trendon and to make a public statement regarding his current role in relation to that entity and whether or not GPUMax itself had any exposure to BS&T (we know that they shared a wallet, but we have no idea to what extent the businesses may have crossed over in other ways).

I doubt very much that no-one closely associated with Trendon knew what he was doing. It's likely some were complicit in his fraud.

farfiman

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Let's get Julianna Margulies
At least she knows what bitcoin is already

Shadow383

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: kentrolla on September 11, 2012, 05:39:36 AM

the first step should be to file a complaint imo. The sooner the better. Let them do their job.

I'm in Thailand and I do not have the money to hire a lawyer to file a complain on my behalf. We are doing this as a group and this is the way they wanted to do it.

I do agree that sooner is better and will pass that idea along. However many people stress that they want a lawyer who understands what is going on to talk to the FBI. I agree with this honestly.

However I think people who are involved in this can and should directly call the FBI or what not and then let BA know. Then we have something to work on.

The more people that make claims can only help us I would guess.

Thanks

There must be an appropriate lawyer in the Bitcoin community somewhere - get an announcement made and start a bounty so Bullshit&Trust investors can pay towards it.

EskimoBob

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Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

Why is it even important, is it ponzi or not?
He took money in form of bitcoins and has not returned it with promised with or without interest payments.FULL STOP!
He has failed on 3 deadlines and refuses to communicate with PPT issuers, PPT holders and one who deposited coins directly.

What he did or did not with the stolen coin (it became stolen when he failed to return it upon request) is irrelevant in this case.

Lets stick to the facts and only facts. Everything else is as valuable as bird farting.

kentrolla

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Catalog Websites

the first step should be to file a complaint imo. The sooner the better. Let them do their job.

markm

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: markm on September 11, 2012, 05:30:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Many people seemed to give him a lot of money once everyone started telling ponzi.

That kind of makes sense, since once you know it is a ponzi you can figure a way to try to profit from it, such as by sending in lots more lambs to the slaughter, whereas when you didn't know what it was it was maybe harder to see why (or even how) he would ever give you any of your money back...

-MarkM-

Part of this IMO is that once people yelled ponzi ~~people wanted safe investments and bought insrued~~ operators wanted to send in more lambs to the slaugher so sold "insured" pirate stuff. However it turns out most of the insurance money was also sent to pirate :/

Fixed That For You

-MarkM-

markm

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Merit: 1090

Quote from: ?? on ??

Many people seemed to give him a lot of money once everyone started telling ponzi.

That kind of makes sense, since once you know it is a ponzi you can figure a way to try to profit from it, such as by sending in lots more lambs to the slaughter, whereas when you didn't know what it was it was maybe harder to see why (or even how) he would ever give you any of your money back...

-MarkM-

Topic: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST - page 15. (Read 48542 times)