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Topic: Got my BFL Single today and I'm raffling it away for 0.5BTC! - page 8. (Read 29283 times)

hero member
Activity: 588
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You sorted the list by the SHA, not sure I like that. I had 2 purchases sperated by quite a bit of time, I like the idea of the tickets for those not being in 1 block and 2 blocks of numbers.

Phil

I sorted the list by email addresses actually. The SHA was after-the-fact.
legendary
Activity: 922
Merit: 1003
You sorted the list by the SHA, not sure I like that. I had 2 purchases sperated by quite a bit of time, I like the idea of the tickets for those not being in 1 block and 2 blocks of numbers.

Phil

You do realize that it makes absolutely no difference statistically, right? Your odds of winning (or losing) are identical regardless of where or how your tickets are split within the total range.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
You sorted the list by the SHA, not sure I like that. I had 2 purchases sperated by quite a bit of time, I like the idea of the tickets for those not being in 1 block and 2 blocks of numbers.

Phil
It's exactly random and the same number of chances regardless of where they end up in the list...   Huh 
hero member
Activity: 866
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You sorted the list by the SHA, not sure I like that. I had 2 purchases sperated by quite a bit of time, I like the idea of the tickets for those not being in 1 block and 2 blocks of numbers.

Phil
donator
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished


Spreadsheet is finished.


Great, maybe we could agree on a block, like 171450, also a very round number in the future. Plenty of time to check the sheet until then.

hero member
Activity: 588
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Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished


Spreadsheet is finished.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ajtx05YrHtIydFpNdjFuQ0diUTkxV3ZTcnczb2RJN0E

The original, unhashed version (which includes invoices for verification at Bit-Pay has been sent to Theymos for records purposes and future scammer investigations, which I'm sure some sore loser will try to instigate at one point or another).


EDIT: Forgot to mention this, but I converted all of the email addresses to lowercase (wtf@people using different casing in email addresses anyway) so keep that in mind when searching for your address. Since I've already received a dozen complaints that someone couldn't find their email address and I've had to hold their hand and show them how, I won't be responding to complaints of that nature in the future.
hero member
Activity: 714
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Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished


I would make it further out.  The further the block is out the more people who can review the list and possibly spot errors.  Would suck if there is an error in the list, someone wins and then people realize the error(s).  Do you have it stand, go again, etc.

I would say once list is published announce block # and make it 24 blocks out (~ 4 hours).

I support, at least 24. Makes a round number. 171460


donator
Activity: 448
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171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished


I guess I could wait one hour more too *sohardtowait*
donator
Activity: 1218
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Gerald Davis
171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished


I would make it further out.  The further the block is out the more people who can review the list and possibly spot errors.  Would suck if there is an error in the list, someone wins and then people realize the error(s).  Do you have it stand, go again, etc.

I would say once list is published announce block # and make it 24 blocks out (~ 4 hours).
donator
Activity: 448
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171436
...so I'd choose like two in the future whenever the spreadsheet is finished
hero member
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Okay so what block number are we on right now?
donator
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Gerald Davis
Sounds like a good method.

For totally transparency just two things are needed.

A) A final list which should sha-256 email address, the # of tickets (and to avoid confusion the ticket # range).

Example:
Quote
hash                                           tickets      ticket #s    
jkfjhasdklfhdfjkhfdjkdhsafjkdhfadjk    120           0-119
fh89r7efuisey78a6s78sdtyfuidfjhh     200          120 - 319
...
fh89r7efuisey7fjsjs978sdtyfuidfjhh    100          40260 - 40359

B) and the block # which will be used and then we just need to wait for that block.  It should be far enough out to allow people to check the list for errors before the block arrives.
sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250
I also prefer this method.

So...

Where is the final list of hashed emails versus "tickets"?

And what block are we targeting for the "draw"?

I'm eager to win my BitForce! Wink lol
legendary
Activity: 922
Merit: 1003
For those that understand the modulo function, you see we must specify that the first raffle ticket number in our list is #0. We use the modulo function with hash of a future block that the organizer specifies to determine the winner:

(last-10-digits-of-block-hash) % (number-of-tickets) = winning ticket number

Excellent, I support this 100%

Agreed. This is a reasonable method.
hero member
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Buy this account on March-2019. New Owner here!!
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1032
Maybe block # % # of entries? (I as well have no idea what is contained inside a block so I'm just throwing ideas into the wind lol)

You are about right. The modulo (%) is what I proposed (page 3). I gave Matthew and others who may do raffles the tools so they could prove their raffle is being run fairly for anybody that may question how the winner is picked.

For some technical information:

Each bitcoin block has a SHA256(SHA256()) hash that is the main "block hash", a hash of the contents of the block (even more technically, a hash of the merkle tree of the transactions in the block). Like the SHA256 hashes of the emails you submitted to the raffle, hashing the transaction block turns readable data into unpredictable random-looking output (it is unpredictable by design; if you could predict it's output, you could break Bitcoin and crack hashed passwords easily). This is actually the puzzle that mining uses; since the output of SHA256 is unpredictable, it is very hard to find a hash that looks like something you specify. Bitcoin's mining challenge is to find a block hash that starts with many zeroes, the more zeroes we want at the beginning of a 256-bit hash (the smaller the value), the more difficult it becomes to find one.

This hash of a block is our random number picker. We specify a future block, so we know the fix is not in - we want to know that a lottery operator isn't picking the ticket number of a friend of his. Since it is so hard to even find a block hash (it's worth 50BTC), trying to manipulate the blockchain so a hash of a particular block is a particular number is nigh impossible. Since it is in the future, nobody without a time machine could have known the winner. Since the blockchain is published for all to use and see, we know that there is only one answer.

We could use the whole block hash, but that's a biiiig number and would break your calculator and programming environment, so it is not practical for everybody to use and independently verify. I proposed the last 10 digits as more reasonable - that is still a huge random number (in hexadecimal) with a value that will be between 0 and 1,099,511,627,775. I think one million million is a pretty big number.

For those that understand the modulo function, you see we must specify that the first raffle ticket number in our list is #0. We use the modulo function on the hash of a specific future block (that the organizer designates beforehand) to determine the winner:

(last-10-digits-of-block-hash) % (number-of-tickets) = winning ticket number

(I'll let you google modulo function if you don't know what that is.)

By all entrants seeing the list of ticket numbers beforehand, and being able to see how the winning ticket number is picked, it is hard to say that the winner was chosen unfairly. Scammers have to go back to simply not shipping the prize and disappearing. Someone like bitpay may fill this final need, by acting as an escrow agent for prizes for future raffles.
legendary
Activity: 1400
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in other news: there is no such thing as a free lunch
The Members of the good old Salvation Army might prove otherwise.  Grin
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/salvation-army-begins-free-lunch-program-in-dade-city/1214986
Paid for by donations, not free.
sr. member
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we are legion
in other news: there is no such thing as a free lunch
The Members of the good old Salvation Army might prove otherwise.  Grin
http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/salvation-army-begins-free-lunch-program-in-dade-city/1214986
sr. member
Activity: 476
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The first is by definition not flawed.
in other news: there is no such thing as a free lunch
hero member
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Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
UPDATE: Talking to deepceleron about it right now. It's actually not that complicated, I'm just not familiar with the process.
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